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1:23 PM
1
Q: riddle: Which teatcher is telling the truth?

Abdul Malek AltawekjiIt is generally known that lecturers for some course either always tell the truth or always lie. Arthur and Ignaz are those lecturers. Arthur says: "Exactly one of us is lying". Ignaz says: "Arthur is telling the truth". Which is the case? who is telling the truth and who is lying.

0
Q: Who killed Mr. Jones?

D. MellowTo solve this puzzle you must fulfill the following data: Murder data Murderer name: Murderer surname: Murder location: To obtain this information here are some clues: Clue N° 1: 43.0662899, 0.9654453 47.5183256, 18.2235143 53.2484772, -6.5926337 41.9037241, -85.8092902 Clue N° 2: 8919 1...

 
1:40 PM
@Sid nope
There is a bit more to it than that
 
Sid
@BeastlyGerbil ...Gah. I mean, good. I hadn't even started doing anything of that sort...
 
The last part will be to do with your para/word/letter discovery
I’m going to start up a community wiki I think... maybe add in a few bits that have been missed too
Should I wait until it’s solved first though?
 
Sid
@BeastlyGerbil In that Diary page? Or have we gotten everything from the Diary page?
@BeastlyGerbil Yeah. Wait till it's solved and then, you can write your community wiki..
 
The diary is yet to be completed
But then again so is a lot of the other bits such as the timetable
The final answer has been found but not all the clues
 
Sid
We haven't gotten the location yet...
 
1:47 PM
Yeah as in the final answer for the bus timetable not overall
 
Sid
(If you mean, the regular references of "third" in the first letter, then, I am pretty sure everyone has seen it but no one cares to reference that...)
 
As a general clue then each bit is self contained. They aren’t interlinked. So the bus stuff will give x and you don’t need any extra information from other parts to find the answer for that part
That may help you find the location
 
2:04 PM
You probably mean that the bus lines spell "View map" in A1Z26 and the departure times minus the bus lines spell "Overlay". It's easy to skip such hints, because the layout of the bus blurb and the map suggest overlaying immediately.
 
2:18 PM
Nice spot that’s that done
Just location left
 
0
Q: What is the maximum points you can get?

Yin GuiyingYou will play a game, where you place “0” and your friend places “1” on a 7x7 chess board. You will start the game and both of you will place numbers on the empty squares alternatively. When the entire board is full, sums of the numbers on each row and column are noted. Among the 14 sums, you wil...

 
Shouldn't the first date, that of the visit to Paris, be 08/06/01?
I ask, because I think I can make two lines cross, but have some letters wrong.
@BeastlyGerbil: ^
 
@MOehm very possibly...
I can’t check right now but can a bit later
If you post what you have so far I may be able to check. I have a lesson right now but will be back in about an hour
 
2:34 PM
Thanks. I get "D....o.. i.b.....", where the dots are letters that I think are correct. When I make the first word start with a V and the second with a W, I get something that is well related to two lines that may cross. :)
 
Sid
Oh, and @Beastly bonus points for creating that doc. Saved a lot of eye squinting and copying texts...
@MOehm Yes, I do get you. And you are probably right. :-)
 
@Sid: Oh, I see I shouldn't have bothered about the half-baked spoiler. Let's wait and see what BG says.
 
3:41 PM
@MOehm the second word starts with a B but I believe you have the right idea. It seems there are several errors though, which is odd as i double checked :/
I can edit and check in about 20 minutes
The COMPASS IS INDICATOR bit comes in here a bit too
 
@BeastlyGerbil Ah, the second word makes more sense with B. I haven't found a use for the compass hint, although I've given it some thought.
 
The compass reference is towards the compass at the bottom right of the travel log
Oh hold on a second I’ve uploaded the wrong picture
That. That’s a problem. Granted not a major one but then the compass hint doesn’t make sense. It could still be solved without
Again I can fix it in a couple of minutes
 
Oh, I see. I think I can see a glimpse of the compass rose in the corner.
Take your time to fix it. It is a large puzzle with many things going on, so it's easy to miss a thing or two. And writing and editing long posts is a bit tedious. I often lose track when I switch between text editor and preview.
 
0
Q: riddle: The fancy numbers

Abdul Malek AltawekjiAny permutation of the numbers 1..5 has a subsequence of 3 increasing numbers or 3 decreasing numbers How would you guys approach this problem?

 
3:57 PM
@Sphinx Homework, should be closed.
(Also the tetrominoes one.)
 
@MOehm @Sid picture corrected
I need to slightly change the size but will do that later
 
@Deusovi Deleted rather than closed, on the off-chance that the cheaty OP hasn't already seen Rand's answer.
And yeah, that may be one notch too heavy-handed, but I'm fed up of people using PSE to do their homework.
 
@GarethMcCaughan Why do you think the OP is cheating? It looks like an exercise from a textbook to me.
 
Too late, unfortunately, do do anything about the tetromino one.
Hmm, maybe it's textbook rather than homework.
 
What sort of homework includes a hint and a figure?
 
4:06 PM
Yeah, you may well be right.
(I wanted to act quickly on the grounds that if it is homework then it is better if the OP never sees the answer.)
 
And yes, the OP hasn't stated their source, but it's not plagiarism (because they're not pretending it's their own work) and they haven't even had 10 minutes yet to edit.
 
@Randal'Thor Lots of homework questions do.
I've had some with hints and figures.
 
@GarethMcCaughan To achieve that, it probably would have been better to delete my answer. OPs can certainly see their own deleted questions, and I think they can also see answers to them.
 
One reason I think not-textbook: it doesn't look to me like a scan or photo, it looks to me like it's taken from a PDF or similar.
Eep, is it really true that if X writes a question, Y writes an answer, and a mod deletes the whole thing, X can still see the answer? Really?
 
@GarethMcCaughan Many people have PDFs of textbooks, e.g. pirated or even lawfully released online.
 
4:10 PM
Further to the not-scan-like-ness: if you look at the image and zoom in, you can see subpixel antialiasing.
 
@Randal'Thor nope
 
I did a web search for some text from the question, and it didn't turn anything up -- evidence against "lawfully released online". Could still be pirated -- but it would need to be a mode of piracy that starts with electronic files rather than e.g. a physical copy of the book.
@Mithrandir Phew!
 
Unless you have 10k rep, you can't see deleted answers to your own questions.
 
@Mithrandir @GarethMcCaughan I just checked on a site where I have a deleted question but less than 10k rep. I can still see all the answers to that question.
Ooh, 1111 helpful flags. Better decline that latest one I raised :-P
</mithrandir>
 
@Rand Damn!
 
4:17 PM
@Randal'Thor huh
 
So are deleted answers really treated differently from answers to deleted questions?
 
Apparently.
 
@MOehm @Sid corrected again, just need to update google doc
 
Sheesh. I notice that there's an "undelete" option on Rand's answer to that question. I wonder what happens if I use it -- I guess it has to undelete the question too? (Tempted to set up a sockpuppet and start experimenting, but it would produce "noise" on the front page and I don't want to inconvenience others.)
 
@GarethMcCaughan Yes. Because the OP of a post can always see it after it's deleted, regardless of whether that post is a question or an answer - and answers are, in some sense, part of the question post.
 
4:20 PM
Done...
 
But an answer really isn't part of the question. I guess this is just one more thing that makes more sense on actually Q&A sites like Stack Overflow than it does on PSE.
So ... if I undelete both, then delete the answer, then delete the question, what then? Does the system remember whether an answer was deleted with the question or separately? Because if not, sometimes deleting a question will make previously-deleted answers suddenly visible to the OP!
 
@GarethMcCaughan Yes, I'm pretty sure it does. If you look at my answer now, it just says "deleted 20 mins ago". Whereas if you'd manually deleted it separately from the question, it would've said "deleted by Gareth McCaughan 20 mins ago".
 
OK. I'm going to try the undelete-delete-delete dance, and see what happens.
 
0
Q: Artaxerxes the great and just king

AlexisWhat is the correct tag for a puzzle on puzzling.stackexchange that is centered around the following paragraph? And I, even I, Artaxerxes, the great and just king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which are beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the ...

 
OK, undelete-delete-delete dance done. @Randal'Thor, does anything look any different to you now?
 
4:27 PM
@GarethMcCaughan Yes, now my answer says:
> deleted by Gareth McCaughan♦ 51 secs ago
> Why was your post deleted? See the help center.
And re-deleting the question automatically marked my flag helpful, so now it's not visible as pending any more.
 
Interesting!
 
4:40 PM
After failing to find explicit documentation of this behaviour I've asked this question on meta.SE: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/303221/… and perhaps there'll be an Official Pronouncement.
 
@Randal'Thor I'd like to make sure people are aware that "pretending it's their own work" is not the only requirement for something to be plagiarism. Plagiarism is using someone else's work, in a setting where individual effort is expected, without proper attribution.
 
Plagiarism is the "wrongful appropriation" and "stealing and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions" and the representation of them as one's own original work. Plagiarism is considered academic dishonesty and a breach of journalistic ethics. It is subject to sanctions like penalties, suspension, and even expulsion. Recently, cases of "extreme plagiarism" have been identified in academia. The modern concept of plagiarism as immoral and originality as an ideal emerged in Europe in the 18th century, particularly with the Romantic movement. Plagiarism is not in...
click that link, don't just read the onebox
 
0
Q: Properties of numbers, redux...?

Rubio One has five. Two and three have two. Six only has one. What does eight have?

 
Academic plagiarism doesn't even require passing it off as your own, it suffices to simply not attribute properly.
 
4:49 PM
PSE isn't academia.
 
@Rubio @Randal'Thor The usual definition of "plagiarism" does, I think, imply passing-off-as-one's-own. But a thing can be wrong in much the same way even if it doesn't quite fit that description.
 
I'm using that definition. :)
 
If you post something unattributed to a place where it is typical that you would post something you created, you are giving the implicit impression that it is your work.
 
The broader things about "academic plagiarism" in the Wikipedia article seem to me to rest on an expectation of originality. Even if you don't explicitly claim that the other work is yours, if you steal from it then your readers are likely to assume it is, and that's why it's plagiarism rather than mere not-giving-credit-properly.
(i.e., I agree with Apep)
 
4:50 PM
@Apep The guy included a screenshot from his book. It's obvious it wasn't something he created.
When you're asking for help with solving a puzzle from a book, you obviously didn't create it yourself.
 
(I draw the heavier distinction to prevent someone from posting content from somewhere else and simply stating "I got this off the internet", because we want to make sure you're not swiping other people's content and escaping plagiarism by attributing-without-attributing)
 
I agree: the problem here isn't plagiarism as such.
 
It happens to fit under the usage of "plagiarism" that academia uses, so why not
 
@Rubio If someone posts something and says "I got this off the internet" then they aren't plagiarizing any more -- but they're still doing something we don't allow here, and terms like "plagiarism policy" are useful for describing the set of policies we have that forbid it.
 
@Rubio Actually, we have a policy on that:
5
Q: Is it acceptable to post a puzzle from another source and edit in attribution only once it's solved?

Rand al'ThorLet's imagine the following rather common scenario: I find, on another site (not PSE), a fun puzzle and its solution the puzzle and solution are clearly linked, so there's no way to link to one but conceal the other the puzzle is interesting enough that I want to share it on PSE. There seem t...

 
4:52 PM
no, that's not the same thing
 
It's fine to:
> include a short statement to the effect of "this isn't my own work; I found it elsewhere, and will edit in a source when it's been solved".
 
Well if we use the academic definition of plagiarism, “I got this off the internet” is not good enough attribution.
 
Yah. It's a simpler way to label it (and happens to fit) than having to reduplicate all the guidance for "intellectual dishonesty" or "use without proper attribution"
 
@Rand Provided you do actually edit in the source when it's been solved.
 
@thecoder16 Exactly my point.
 
4:53 PM
@thecoder16 Indeed it's not good enough attribution, but "plagiarism" means something more specific than "not providing good enough attribution" and it's useful to distinguish.
 
@Randal'Thor Yeah - this is okay, again as long as you do put in the attribution.
 
@GarethMcCaughan In this case, the OP only had about 5 minutes' chance to edit in a source after being asked to do so, before you nuked it.
 
Was he even on PSE for those 5 minutes?
 
The nuking wasn't for plagiarism nor for lack of attribution, it was for using PSE as a cheat-on-my-homework service.
 
@thecoder16 Well, exactly.
 
4:54 PM
The "edit in attribution only once it's solved" question was about something very specific and quite different, and has nothing to do with this.
 
@GarethMcCaughan Except that we have no evidence it's homework as opposed to textbook, and people should be given the benefit of the doubt.
 
The global SE attribution policy is probably relevant.
 
@Apep Ah yes, there we go, thanks.
> Plagiarism - posting the work of others with no indication that it is not your own - is frowned on by our community, and may result in your answer being down-voted or deleted.
So SE's definition of plagiarism is not the academic plagiarism which Rubio is talking about.
I thought I knew that, but couldn't remember where from.
 
(It might be that the clearest grounds for zapping the post were related to attribution policy rather than homework-cheating, of course, just as what Al Capone got busted for was tax evasion.)
 
fight fight fight fight!
my money's on gareth
 
4:56 PM
Not interested in fighting.
 
(I know, just teasing :P)
 
When normal men mix with the far superior mods :P
 
Incidentally @Randal'Thor you might have some comments on this meta question puzzling.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/41/….
 
@GarethMcCaughan But since when have we been nuking questions 10 minutes after they were posted just because the OP hasn't had the chance to edit in the requested attribution yet?
 
4:57 PM
The part below that sentence is in the spirit of academic plagiarism, though. It requires full attribution to the original creator of the content.
 
I didn't nuke it "just because the OP hasn't had the chance to edit in the requested attribution yet". I nuked it because I thought it likely to be OP trying to cheat on their homework (for the second time in a short period, too) in which rapid action could make the difference between letting them do it and not letting them do it.
 
^^ Yes, that.
 
@GarethMcCaughan He actually had 3 questions in the last couple hours. For what it's worth. :P
 
@GarethMcCaughan Right, but the homework argument doesn't hold up because it could also be a textbook, and the attribution argument doesn't hold up because that's never been a reason for insta-nuking.
So why is the post deleted?
 
Also, while there's a difference between plagiarism per se and use-without-proper-attribution (or "academic plagiarism") in their definitions ... there's no difference whatsoever in terms of their validity here, nor in terms of what we do about them. So while the definitions' differences are interesting academically (heh), there's really no reason to draw that distinction because there's nothing that changes.
 
5:00 PM
The attribution argument is a reason for nuking. The homework argument is a reason for insta. I am willing to be persuaded that the question should be reinstated, in which case it will be.
Of course the question wouldn't have arisen in the first place if someone hadn't leapt in as soon as it was posted to provide an answer, rather than thinking "hmm, could be homework, maybe this isn't a good idea" :-).
 
@GarethMcCaughan Well, I've cast my votes there. FWIW, I've also proposed a policy on homework questions for another site ... wondering if I should copy that answer here too.
@GarethMcCaughan The idea of homework didn't even occur to me. It looked like a typical textbook exercise to me.
 
(Note also that the SE help/referencing specifically says: "Do not copy the complete text of external sources; instead, use their words and ideas to support your own. And always give proper credit to the author and site where you found the text, including a direct link to it." emphasis in original)
 
Community wiki posted - well done all solvers!
Just adding to the discussion - what about posts which aren't original but can't be sourced? (As in famous puzzles etc.)
 
I think that for famous old chestnuts it's probably sufficient to say something like "This is an old puzzle, not original to me; I don't know where it originally came from, and so far as I know no one else does either".
 
@Rubio What do you mean? It's not just an academic distinction. There's a large class of puzzles which would be treated very differently according to which definition of plagiarism is being used.
 
5:04 PM
Then if someone else does turn out to know, it can be edited in afterwards.
 
@Randal'Thor There shouldn't be.
 
I'm not super-keen on providing answers to textbook exercises here either, for what it's worth. (I don't think we have an actual policy against it, and probably we shouldn't have, but I think in many cases it's harmful rather than helpful on net.) [EDITED to fix a typo]
 
@BeastlyGerbil That's covered in this answer - we can't be expected to find original sources for ancient chestnuts.
 
True... I think in my opinion, if it's not your puzzle you have to at least say so, regardless of whether you know where the original came from
 
You're expected to disclose where you got it if you didn't come up with it on your own.
If you just know "my friend asked this" then that's as much attribution as you can give, we're not expecting you to research the actual original author
 
5:07 PM
@BeastlyGerbil Yep, nobody's arguing that.
@Rubio All the puzzles which make clear they're not created by the OP but don't say exactly where they come from.
 
None of those are following the SE help/referencing policy.
I'm not saying they should be wholesale deleted - we apply rational thought - but
they are technically not proper, and if they are doing something else that suggests they're not acting in good faith, that's going to heavily tilt the scales toward deletion
Heh. My puzzle is getting downvotes. :)
 
Sid
@Rubio which puzzle?
 
-1
Q: Properties of numbers, redux...?

Rubio One has five. Two and three have two. Six only has one. What does eight have? ______ An homage to Properties of numbers...? — but a new puzzle

 
^ that one
 
5:22 PM
I'll delete my comment if you think it's making people look askance at the puzzle.
It was only meant as a joke.
 
I think at this point if that's why the downvotes, the damage is done. Going forward I think your comment is safe, as it's been addressed
I would have hoped people would get that I, of all people, wouldn't just plagiarise the other puzzle :)
 
But is it academic plagiarism or actual plagiarism?
:-P
 
Rubio would be the last person to plagiarise a puzzle.
Actually not true. Gareth would be the last person to post a plagiarised puzzle :P
 
Sid
@BeastlyGerbil nah. That would be Gareth.
Ninja'ed. :P
 
ninja'd :P
 
5:27 PM
tee hee
 
So apparently I'm more likely to plagiarise than you, Gareth. :)
 
But not necessarily more likely to plagiarize conditional on actually posting a puzzle.
 
I was curious about the variation in wording, there.
 
@phroureo Yes, three questions, but only two of them look homeworky.
 
@BeastlyGerbil What's the difference between "plagiarizing a puzzle" and "posting a plagiarized puzzle"?
 
5:32 PM
@Gareth If you ever post a puzzle, you should make it a plagiarised one. Just to prove them wrong :-P
 
I was just clarifying the gareth/posting question joke :)
 
@Randal'Thor I will bear your advice in mind. And possibly quote it, if I have need to make you look bad :-).
 
Heh.
Well, actually we all have a Gareth puzzle to work on right now.
That one ------------------------------------------->
 
Sid
Is that "Pangram" puzzle actually a meta-puzzle? If the answer is correct, then, I don't see how
 
5:43 PM
Oo, I passed 40k rep. (Not that anything exciting happens then. Just a meaningless milestone.)
 
Congrats :)
 
Sid
@Rand He is coming after you. :P
 
Still quite a way behind Deusovi and waaaay behind Rand :-).
 
Congrats @GarethMcCaughan :)
 
Sid
Congrats Gareth!
and @Beastly The mission is on HNQ.
(is that supposed to be "on" or "in"?)
 
5:46 PM
@Sid been there a while :)
probably because there are a lot of answers...
I'd say on
 
@GarethMcCaughan Congrats! :-)
How is that question you answered not a dupe?
I hunted for one, but couldn't find that exact question.
 
Sid
@Randal'Thor then, it's not a dupe?
 
My search skills aren't infallible.
 
@Sid did you see the bit you and Xenoncacia missed regarding the phonebook?
 
I still feel like there must be a dupe and I just couldn't find it.
 
5:51 PM
It may have been deleted
I've had that, searching for a dupe I knew had been posted to find it removed
 
Sid
@BeastlyGerbil Ah, yeah. But, to be honest, with those numbers, there were only a few tries to do. For example, I only did 2 tries and I reached the answer.
 
Yeah I couldn't think of a more complex way. I tried but didn't really want to add too much more otherwise it would have been a bit overcrowded
 
The liars one is kinda morally a dupe, in that there are hundreds of questions of that sort that one could ask, and it doesn't really matter that much exactly which ones already have answers on PSE. But so far as I know it isn't literally a dupe. I think the least-bad thing to do with it is just answer it quickly and move on.
 
@Beastly @Sconibulus @ffao Hey, I found some more bad closed questions to VTD: one, two, three, four.
 
6:04 PM
puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/51454/… is pretty close, but not a dup
that's the one I was thinking of when I saw the current one
So - Mysterious note at the United Nations ... OP has "answered" with a non-answer "hint" (I guess?) that basically gives up the whole puzzle, or seems to anyway. Not entirely sure what to do with that. Any ideas?
 
@Rubio Argh. Too long to convert it to a comment.
If it really gives up the whole puzzle (I haven't read it in detail), then I guess it's an answer of sorts?
 
(It maybe should be edited into the question, as an actual hint)
 
Not good practice to answer one's own puzzle that quickly, of course, but all we can do is advise people not to.
 
I didn't read it in detail either. But it is at best a partial solution
 
Sid
(Re: the teacher liar question: Gah. Gareth answered 5 seconds before me and gets the checkmark. Humph. :P)
 
6:19 PM
FGitW
that's Fastest Gareth in the Web. obviously
 
Sid
6:42 PM
Anyway, I'm off to sleep. Good Night folks.
 
'Night!
 
GameN!
 
7:08 PM
@Sid You'd prefer the checkmark to go to whoever is slower?
 
7:33 PM
0
Q: The smallest disc which could contain 11 coins

OrayThere are $11$ coins with $1$ unit radius and we are trying to put them inside a big disc with some radius. So What is the minimum radius of this disc? If this question was asked for $2$ coins, the answer would be obviously $2$ unit radius, If was asked for $3$ coins, the answer would be $...

 
8:32 PM
0
Q: What is this e mail really saying

DEEMVeteran investigator Ken Smith had been following a suspicious e mail trail between John Jones and Robert Brooks.This particular one caught his attention. He was trying to figure it out. From: Jjones@row.com To: Rbrooks@coolmail.com Subject: Your last e mail on Money Issues Your option i...

 
 
2 hours later…
10:13 PM
Can anyone test a puzzle for me for difficulty? I'd submit it, but I'm going to be using it as a Puzzled Pint puzzle and they don't like ones you can Google :)
 
maybe
what is puzzled pint?
 
It's a puzzle hunt that takes place at various bars
So it's one fourth of a puzzle set
 
hmm
I will help, though I'm not very expert at solving puzzles tbh
 
@Aranlyde How would you show it to us, if not by posting here?
 
onetimesecret?
requesting a deletion?
 
10:30 PM
Chat rooms on here aren't searchable
 
yes they are
is looking at the part labelled solution cheating?
because it doesn't look like it straight out solves it
 
That moment when you answer a question in 1.5 minutes and then have to delete your answer because it was supposed to be only for new users ...
At least I was quick enough to shadow-edit my answer so that nobody can see my solution :-)
 
@Randal'Thor Only high-rep users would be able to see it anyway...
 
@DestructibleLemon Forgot that was in there :P Ignore that
It is a direct solution
 
So my immediate reaction on looking at the puzzle (ignoring the thing that at first glance seems like it might be a solution) is that it seems like maybe we're meant to find words of the given length in the rows, and make their letters black (or white, but probably black). Then of course we'll interpret the QR code and see what we get. BUT on the face of it there are multiple ways to do it.
More precisely, there aren't words of the right length present contiguously in the rows; but if we're allowed to use non-contiguous letters then e.g. in the second row we have both ACCEPT and ACCENT.
 
10:38 PM
@GentlePurpleRain Good point. I just re-edited it to show the solution without spoilertags, so that high-rep users will get spoiled and won't be able to answer before the novices :->
 
This is thinking-out-loud, not a bug report -- most likely I just haven't figured out yet exactly how it's meant to work (e.g., maybe if you pick the right words then you get a meaningful sentence or they all have some particular property or something, and that disambiguates).
 
Once you find the proper words it should be clear. Also, the flavortext is not just flavor.
 
I notice that the fourth row has both LENIENT and STRICT, though only the former is 7 letters, so there's probably an antonym thing going on
(given the title and flavourtext)
ah yes, and DECLINE to go with ACCEPT (not ACCENT)
my feeling is that at this point I've probably morally solved it
but I suppose I should actually finish and see whether it works
 
1
Q: A cipher for beginners

BarkerI have been lurking on puzzling.se for quite a while, but I never joined the community before because by the time I figured out any puzzles, someone else had already answered them. For that reason, I decided to put up this puzzle. It is pretty straight forward, so it won't be much challenge for...

 
(not least because it isn't yet clear to me whether I'm just meant to pick the correct-length one of the two antonyms and shade it, or whether somehow they're meant to combine as the flavourtext kinda suggests; I don't currently see any very plausible way to combine them -- XOR?? -- but perhaps something will spring to mind)
 
10:42 PM
My previous test solvers have been all over the board in terms of difficulty, which is why getting more data points will help :)
 
maybe negative words are always coloured black when you are meant to colour them?
 
hmm, looks like the two words are in fact always complements, which will help
(I mean complements in terms of which squares within the row)
so then there will only be two ways to do it, and presumably only one will lead to a good QR code. (I guess black is the one whose length is given, white is the other)
 
Ooh, that's actually a good idea @DestructibleLemon! I was trying to think of a way to remove the numbers
 
I think the antonyms maybe help you find words?
wait i helped with puzzle design?
 
The final version yeah probably :)
 
10:47 PM
Removing the numbers would definitely make it harder
and in particular make it slower to be confident of having the right solution
 
Originally, the first square in each row was shaded properly, but that seemed hacky
 
yeah, antonyms help because, for example, row three has the word TRUE immediately sticking out, but the correct one is <am i allowed to say this?> due to seeing the antonym
hahah i helped sort of again
 
You're able to say anything :)
 
ok, got all the words
 
it's more about giving the solutions
 
10:49 PM
(yeah, don't like shading the first square in each row correctly)
 
Giving the solution here is fine
 
I only really got the point of the puzzle here because people said it though
 
Modifying it so "all antonyms are black" would be a good idea
Luckily QR codes have a massive amount of error correction
I've had people stare at it for ages with no clue, and for other people it just clicks which is weird
 
there's one row (only one so far) where it looks at first as if you have a choice of which letter to use, but you don't really because picking the wrong one makes the antonym not fit -- it would be nice if that happened more
two rows now
 
There are not that many 13-letter antonym pairs to choose from :)
 
10:59 PM
well, maybe I did something wrong because both the online QR code decoders I fed my solution into rejected both the version where the numbered answer is black and the version where the numbered answer is white.
hmm, yeah, definitely did something wrong -- I think I got one row the wrong way around or something. Bah, human fallibility.
 
@Aranlyde you mean negative words are black?
 
Odd... I'll test that. I printed it and penciled it and it worked
Not right now but I can find a way to do that @DestructibleLemon
 
I do think it will help if you want to remove the numbers
 
I already changed the meta so I need to change the QR anyway
 
hmm, I found and fixed two errors (didn't get any rows the wrong way around, but I failed to shade two letters) and it's still not working. Surely still a mistake on my part.
Though it's a little surprising since, as noted above, QR codes are meant to be very robust against small errors of whatever sort.
 
11:06 PM
@Aranlyde I feel like there has to be some way to find more antonym pairs with 13 letters efficiently
 
When I remake it I'll check that
 
like, with an internet dictionary and regex api thingies
 
That got me the 13 I have right now
At least that are common enough for people to get easily
I use quinapalus.com/qat.html a lot in puzzle creation
 
Have I done something absurd if I get one of these:
I guess the remnant of the Google Docs cursor, or of some of the letters, could be confusing it, but that's the sort of thing I would expect QR decoders to be very comfortable ignoring.
 
isn't there supposed to be a smaller box near the bottom right?
 
11:09 PM
Hmm, there probably is. I wonder what I screwed up, then.
seems clear I want the second of the two images above and something has gone entertainingly wrong at the left-hand side of the bottom-right synchronization feature.
 
I'll check that
 
@Aranlyde, it's not possible is it that row 9 is the complement of what it should be?
(but when I say "something has gone entertainingly wrong" I mean that I have screwed up, not that you hvae)
 
It could be yes
I'll check that again to see. Thanks for the help :)
 
note: that on its own doesn't make this look like a correct QR code so at least one of us (probably me) has made a bunch of other errors
 
19x19s don't need the bottom right synch feature
but I'll probably bump ecc up to 30 when I remake it anyway
 
11:18 PM
I have at least one error on the first row too (picked the wrong first E)
is the sync feature intended to be there? it looks as if it may be, but if so then I have made an impressive number of errors. (Which is very possible.)
ironically, I have made multiple errors of the form "pick wrong letter despite constraint from antonym". I said there should be more places where you need to check this, but the real problem was that I wasn't checking it enough.
 
Lol @Rubio, that was also the first thing that occurred to me when thinking "what does one have five of?"
 
@ffao Same. Obviously. :)
 
antonym pair I made: obvious subtle
 
well, I went through again checking more carefully and still get something that the online thing doesn't recognize as a QR code.
If that looks like the right set of squares then I can do some things to remove the grid lines, remnants of letters, etc.
 
@GarethMcCaughan can't read the letters easily
 
11:29 PM
that's OK, you shouldn't need to be able to if you know what squares are meant to be what colours
and maybe you don't but I'm sure @Aranlyde does
 
11:42 PM
I did some things to remove the grid lines, remnants of letters, etc., but the result was still not recognized as a QR code by the web QR decoder I tried.
There's a thing that looks like the standard bottom-right sync feature but maybe not enough like it.
 
maybe you have a bad qr decoder?
 
Like I said I'll check it
 
It's possible I picked a bad QR decoder, yes.
 
my QR code reader picks up the last image just fine
Should I test the other two as well?
 
The raw QR code of the last image scans for me
 
11:57 PM
OK, I tried with a different QR decoder and this time it worked.
("The answer: RUING")
 
good to know that not all decoders are equal :)
Thanks for your help :)
 
so, anyway, playtest report: nice idea, decently executed, rather straightforward aside from whatever combination of minor errors on my part + poor choice of QR decoder (I think mostly the latter, given error correction).
 
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