Academic spaces have developed specialized systems, official and unofficial, to maintain certain assumptions and priorities and powers. This means ignoring and discrediting a lot of alternative ways of seeing the world.

Understanding and dismantling those structures is a pretty core part of decolonizing knowledge and education systems.

@BESW yeah, and for liberal-arts work, there's a definite value in being able to work with alternate lenses instead of throwing them out (otherwise you get the effect of looking at something through the wrong color glasses for the source material, among other things)

(something that's very common in modern critiques of historical practices -- we should be able to separate "this was a bad thing that we got rid of down the road" from using it to tar and feather historical figures for things that they weren't inculcated to believe were bad)

I'd say it's valuable in every field. The concept of "multidisciplinary" study should be so common we need a word for not using it, instead of compartmentalizing everything into artificial boundaries which prevent a full understanding of anything because the edges are all lopped off.

(or worse yet, things they did not know were bad to begin with)

@BESW the issue I see is when people try to apply the "many lenses are valid" assumption to fields where trying to apply an alternate lens undermines the validity of what you are doing

@Shalvenay I mean, for that particular one it usually gets misapplied to figures who had many contemporaries saying the things were bad. Edge cases exist but broadly speaking "nobody knew it was bad at the time" tends to ignore all the people the bad things were happening to. They knew it was bad, and they usually weren't quiet about it.

@BESW yeah, "nobody knew it was bad" is rare, it's more like "the figures in question didn't go off and do a bad thing despite it being indoctrinated into them that it was bad"

@Shalvenay That's a straw man; the validity of multiple lenses doesn't eliminate the need to understand the lenses and what they do, and choose them appropriately. We're talking about ignoring lenses, not choosing them.

If the very existence of multiple lenses renders a task invalid, the task may have fundamental flaws in its base assumptions.

@BESW I'm not sure what to make of that statement, if you consider the scientific method to be a lens unto itself....

A method is not a task.

@BESW or perhaps it should be reframed as "one needs to be aware of the limits of their viewpoint?"

The scientific method is a powerful tool for knowledge, but it's not the only one and it's got some very poor structures added onto it. The work of knowledge is actively weakened by a myopic focus on treating one specific form of scientific knowledge as natural or default.

Indigenous ways of knowing have trouble even claiming the term 'science' because it's been so tightly married to one particular lens, much less finding space to contribute in the global discourse of knowledge.

@BESW yeah, part of the problem I see is that even in Western society, we kinda lost our way when it comes to teaching science -- the push away from experimental, self-driven learning is quite unfortunate

you mention quite often that "the map is not the territory", but what's happened is we've conflated teaching the map with teaching the mapmaking process itself

Aye, that's a space where cultures like the Yupik have MASSIVE amounts of insight which is almost impossible to apply without challenging our educational systems' basic assumptions about the nature of learning.

Specifically regarding education, I'm really excited by the Ruhi Institute's models --for child and adult learning-- and how they're being refined through truly global field experience.

And lot of cultures have "learn by watching, not by listening" models which look to Western education like a lack of engagement.

@BESW yeah, it's the visual/auditory/kinematic learners split

Not really, no.

oh?

@Ash ah yeah, I also have a cousin who described her,... I don't remember what it's called Thesis maybe? The like project work or something she had to do at the end of everything else for her degree

@BESW more of a demonstrative/inductive model vs. a descriptive/deductive one then?

It goes much deeper than instructional tools or whether or not to "teach the test." It digs down to basic ideas about things like whether students are empty vessels to be filled with the instructor's knowledge, or if students possess capacity which the instructor helps them discover.

Like she knew all what she was doing but it sounded like the hardest part was being taken seriously

It was something to do with a study of history I think

@BESW I can actually come up with a good analogy for this -- flight instruction

Yeah

Plus of Course I don't have a degree but I went to a lot of college despite that

There's also a lot about the purpose of instruction, and the role of learning in the individual vs the role of learning in society.

And I wasn't always,... Amused

many times, with a well-progressing student, the instructor is less actively instructing and more monitoring

(which poses its own difficulties, as humans are lousy at monitoring)

@Ash yes, that is true too :)

Yes, guided discussion is at the core of Ruhi praxis, with the assumption that everyone in the group has valuable perspective and the individuals (including the facilitator) will learn from each other, alongside each other.

@Ash yeah this right here is at least sometimes something I don't feel like people allow me

@Ash Hard same. And I know you haven't seen this personally, but it's so cool to see how the model works effectively in different cultural modes, because they have the space to mould the theory to whatever praxis works for them and incorporate their own methodologies.

@Ash yeah -- there are some definite frustrations there from my end as well

@Ash I actually can make a pretty good student in that way, in the short term, then I completely fall off the bus as soon as it asks for one too many spoons

@Ash It works because of that constant 'go back to the source material and remember why you're here' principle at the core, which keeps everything grounded and prevents wild flights of woo-woo.

Both times I went to college I started going to classes less and less

@Ash exactly

@BESW yes, "go back to the source material" is a very good approach

@Ash Wait 'til you get to Book 2, it'll start getting practical REALLY fast. Book 1 is laying foundational principles for the practical action of the other books.

I can't even remember the specific incidents that sparked it but I don't think that matters so much

I didn't realize it at the time but the system just didn't work for me at all

I think people tend to over-emphasize books 3 (childrens' virtue learning), 5 (youth service and education), and 7 (facilitating adult training classes) but book 2's focus on elevating neighbourhood conversations to identify problems and talk about practical solutions with uplifting attitudes, is crucial to tying all the other neighbourhood activities together into a process of sustainable community development.

You can't get everything else working properly and moving in the same direction if you can't have comfortable but honest conversations about things your community cares about.

And Book 2 is all about getting the tools and the courage to initiate and model those kinds of conversations.

Totally. And that's the principle of the Ruhi classes themselves, too: guided conversations.

I know a few educators who incorporate Ruhi theory into their Western-style classrooms as much as possible, and even in those small doses they get a good positive response.

@BESW yeah, that actually reminds me of something odd -- it's the decoupling of the political party system from things happening on the ground

(perhaps it should be called "party mechanization"?)

Let's not get into political parties, but yes, part of Ruhi's purpose is empowering local communities to take control of situations that their regional and national infrastructure aren't responding to appropriately.

Practical examples I've seen include building bridges to make remote villages more accessible, youth-led garbage collection in areas without a public garbage collection, and simple health education in areas without those services.

..... I am not exactly sure I like how the data about the Stack Overflow developer survey has been aggregated in the premade glitch app linked from the official blog.

glitch.com/~2019-stackoverflow-public-data

@Rubiksmoose You can find the first episode available as a free preview on the official Cartoon Network Youtube channel

should be enough to decide if you would like to watch the rest.

@Derpy thanks!

just know that even if you finish it you probably will end up with more questions than when you started

oh, and since we are at it...

The manga makes it clear that she didn't "borrow" only the compass :P

@Derpy ohhhhh!

it is still unclear if the "angle measurement sphere" as any actual significance, so it may have been removed for sake of time

or you may end up seeing them using it.. without never getting it in the first place :P

anyway, there aren't that many differences or missing part

well that is good to know!

the manga can be a little more "graphical" at times so it looks like some scenes were tuned down for sake of censorship

I really want more now...

(yep - episode 10 can be made to look worse)

@Derpy that actually does surprise me given that the anime is relatively brutal

@Derpy oh boy

@Rubiksmoose will only post the link since you know... it is a bit of a spoiler for anyone who didn't see the episode

oh wow

yeah they do go all-out don't they?

I think the coloring of the manga helps to make things generally look more dark

since you only have gray scale.

ah yeah. I had a bit of a hard time even telling what I was looking at at first honestly.

But since I had the reference of the anime I figured it out of course.

I think some of the "camera positioning" is also more explicit. For example I seem to remember that the scene in episode 13 when the "fungus" is removed is shown in the anime so that you can't really see her arm.

While I think that it is shown from Nanachi point of view in the manga, so you have a far more direct image of how un-nice the removal had to be.

@Derpy I think I recall the same thing

yep, I am pretty sure of the camera placement in the show, I can't really remember if the camera is pointed on the arm in the manga instead but I think it is.

I guess I shouldn't be that surprised. I'm not sure there has been that many anime adaptations that have been more graphic and or explicit than there manga source material. But then again, I haven't really read manga so that could be completely wrong.

btw, just to know... Since I also mentioned School Live! in the other room... did you ever heard anything about it?

Don't worry, it is just curiosity, not like I am going to suggest you watch it or anything.

Yes!

I watched and liked it and then watched it again with my wife

@Derpy Which was extremely difficult without describing what the show was actually about (for reasons you understand I'm sure)

And I definitely don't mind recommendations to watch things. Though I don't have much time currently, I always pay attention to things that people recommend to me. I've found many of my favorites that way.

@Rubiksmoose I don't even know how I would describe that thing without spoiling the premise. Not that it really comes out very late, mind you, since by the end of ep 1 it is clear what the show is actually about...

It is just that is somehow deceiving in its first minutes.

@Derpy basically just "girls start a club to live at school". I watch a lot of slice of life anime so she likely thought that's what it was.

I think she also missed some of the early hints (broken windows, some interactions not making any sense)

@Rubiksmoose yep, the problem is that then you risk to suggest it to someone and he/she watches it really thinking she will get something more similar to Love Live (aka girls in school that live their life and sing in idol group)

Hahaha yeah. Basically it was just a trust me kind of thing. It's similar to trying to get someone to watch Madoka in that respect.

at least the truth comes by the end of episode 1... not the final one.

@Derpy and I actually did get those anime confused when I first heard about it.

@Rubiksmoose ye are not the only one....

oh, and by the way...

It is actually pretty good.

Oh? I'll look it up!

there is no hidden premise there, so the first lines of Wikipedia description of the manga will suffice

basically. slice of life in a barren world.

Huh, what kind of vibe would you say it has?

@Derpy question answered!

That definitely strikes a cord with me on multiple fronts

@Rubiksmoose Melancholic? "At least we are together"?

Which is also why I hope "To All Of Mankind" ends up to be decent.

I've heard about this! And fingers crossed for sure.

I have my doubt it will go like I hope but we will see.

@BESW What's the difference between praxis an practice?

Here, I'm using it to invoke both the philosophical jargon of action which creates social change, and the educational jargon of experiential learning through cycles of action and reflection.

More broadly, praxis is the set of practices which embody a theory.