TNB Conlang (katlani)

Redwolf Programs

21:00

Would copular verbs need to be any different from normal ones?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@RedwolfPrograms I went to get a snack

hyper-neutrino

well, they need to be able to target adjectives

Redwolf Programs

Oh, good point

We could cheat and do something like "[Subject] is a [adjective] thing"

hyper-neutrino

lol

Wezl - a cautionary tale

special WR: all 8-syllable words mean "peanut butter with marmalade"

grandBagel

21:03

What have I missed?

hyper-neutrino

oh yeah should we have a shortcut for a generic noun that is specified by some adjective

Redwolf Programs

Like, "I like the red car better than the blue?"?

hyper-neutrino

yeah

grandBagel

@RedwolfPrograms I spell I like the red car better than the blue car

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Maybe a word like "one" would work

And we could have an animacy distinction even, so you have a good way to refer to a person in general

Wezl - a cautionary tale

21:06

I like the red car better than the blue variant

Ginger Industries

i'm BACK

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino I support having a noun for "thingy," yes

Redwolf Programs

So you'd basically be saying "the blue one"

Ginger Industries

what have I missed?

hyper-neutrino

hm. ok

Ginger Industries

21:06

new words?

Redwolf Programs

Not many

Ginger Industries

dammit computer restarted so I lost all the words I wrote down

one sec

Wezl - a cautionary tale

you can scroll to the top (maybe not on mobile) and press "load to my last message" and read from there

Redwolf Programs

I think pronouns (and the "thingy" word) should be our next thing to work on

And then defining some basic vocabulary

Wezl - a cautionary tale

WR: y (n): thingy

2

Ginger Industries

21:08

was about to ask about word structure then remembered we did that

Wezl - a cautionary tale

so I can be y izl

DLosc

I also support having a generic verb, as Mark Rosenfelder says exists in Quechua: "Wallpata narankichu? ‘Did you do that thing to the chicken?’"

Redwolf Programs

WR: mi: First person pronoun

Although you could end up with my mi pretty often

DLosc

True, lol

Redwolf Programs

Perhaps we should have an adjective for "mine"

Ginger Industries

21:10

vaiksal is pronounced "see-sharp", right?

@RedwolfPrograms Nintendon't

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms I think genitive + pronoun should do fine

Redwolf Programs

Anyone here speak some non-romance languages? i'd suggest more pronouns but I don't want to clutter them up with english/spanish-like ones

DLosc

Should the word for "us" be related to the word for "me", or do we want them completely different like in European languages?

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale I'm changing it to lano bc nouns can't end in i

DLosc

(Or, rather, the words for "us" if we're doing an inclusive vs exclusive distinction)

Redwolf Programs

21:11

WR: mak (n): A person

Ginger Industries

unless that is the plural

Redwolf Programs

@GingerIndustries They already changed it to lan

Ginger Industries

oh

Wezl - a cautionary tale

1 hour ago, by Wezl - a cautionary tale

so this+that+former+latter can be pronouns

Ginger Industries

wait that's word singular

Redwolf Programs

21:13

No, we decided singular has no ending

Wezl - a cautionary tale

IIUC hindi uses demonstratives even for people, which is handy

Redwolf Programs

So lan is one word, lani is words, and laniiiiiiii is when class is almost over but the teacher's still talking

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Just take an English/Spanish pronoun and change all the letters to something completely different. ;)

Redwolf Programs

Genius!

Wezl - a cautionary tale

WR: nimak (pn): most recently mentioned person

2

Redwolf Programs

21:15

WR: shu: Second person singular pronoun

Wezl - a cautionary tale

WR: pasmak (pn): second most recently mentioned person

2

DLosc

I've been holding off on inventing more pronouns until we're decided exactly which ones we want and how they're related

Ginger Industries

slow down

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc Good point. I figure 1st/2nd singular are likely to be unrelated in any way, but I'll hold off on any more

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Looks like you didn't change all the letters :P

Redwolf Programs

21:17

So we've agreed on inclusive/exclusive 1st plural, did we decide whether "with you" and "with y'all" would be different?

DLosc

you, tu

Wezl - a cautionary tale

can you say "sir [noun] [adjective]" to say "[noun] is [adjective]"?

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms I don't think the latter is going to be a very useful distinction

Redwolf Programs

@Wezl-acautionarytale We'd been discussing that, you'd need y I think we decided

Like sir [noun] su y [adjective]

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale Another possibility is that "[noun] is [adjective]" sentences don't need a verb at all: you'd just say "[noun] [adjective]"

Redwolf Programs

21:19

That feels kind of weird though

Wezl - a cautionary tale

"sir noun adjective" is like saying "there exists a adjective noun" more than "noun is adjective" ig but it still makes sense

Redwolf Programs

We should make it so that saying a noun before another noun imples ownership, so "Big Shaq, the one and only, Man's Not Hot" is an official part of our grammar

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms A lot of languages do it that way. But we can use a linking verb.

Ginger Industries

WR: aaaaa: pain

Redwolf Programs

I suppose we could do that then

komy izl would then mean "the monkey is bitey"

Instead of needing to say si komy su y izl

Ginger Industries

21:21

I'm interpreting izl to mean dangerous

Wezl - a cautionary tale

conlang design is almost as fun as proglang design

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale Actually, I quite like this.

Ginger Industries

WR: maka (pn, intj): All people in the discussion / "Hey everyone!"

DLosc

@GingerIndustries Is that like saying "hey everyone"?

Ginger Industries

@DLosc Yup

Redwolf Programs

21:24

maka, komy izl! pas si [to warn]

We really need more words lol

Ginger Industries

I cannot find pas si in the list

Redwolf Programs

pas si is was

(If si is our copular verb)

(We've got multiple rn, and none are really that good)

Ginger Industries

Example of copular verb in english?

Redwolf Programs

be/is/are/am/was/were

Wezl - a cautionary tale

IdiomR: baka mitai: I've been a fool

Ginger Industries

21:25

oh

@Wezl-acautionarytale I think that's an interjection

Wezl - a cautionary tale

okay

hyper-neutrino

@Wezl-acautionarytale ಠ_ಠ

Redwolf Programs

WR: baka (n): A fool, who is often sus

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms why not just use one of them with tenses like everything else

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale I support baka for "fool," but what's mitai?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

21:26

it's really the only phrase we need in our language

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms good lord

hyper-neutrino

@DLosc jisho.org/search/mitai

Wezl - a cautionary tale

WR: baka (pn): The fool in the conversation

Redwolf Programs

WR: sus (adj): To arouse suspicion; to possibly be the impostor

Ginger Industries

should be mi baka

sus is a verb and an adjective

you can sus

Redwolf Programs

21:27

How about the verb is susin

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms yes

Redwolf Programs

susin mi su Ginger

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Redwolf Programs

Hmm, what would our names be? Do we keep them the same, or convert them to use the language's phonetics?

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms I vote for same

because easy

Redwolf Programs

21:29

I'm fine with Rydvylf

Ginger Industries

what is su again?

Redwolf Programs

Case particle for direct object

Ginger Industries

for copular verbs, I propose just using si with the tense modifiers

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino Okay, but like if we were going to make that a phrase in the conlang, it should have meaning in the conlang. We seem to have moved past that point, tho.

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@Wezl-acautionarytale very helpful for conversations. "fool says that tabs should be used. I say that space(s) should be used"

Ginger Industries

21:29

@RedwolfPrograms Category?

Redwolf Programs

Particle

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms All words in that category?

Redwolf Programs

pas/ni/fy, ta/su/lia

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms Definitions?

is that past/present/future?

Redwolf Programs

pas/ni/fy are past/present/future tense, ta/su/lia/my are subject, direct object, indirect object, and possession casing particles

Ginger Industries

21:31

right

Redwolf Programs

sir shu su mak vaiksal: "You are a bad person"

(Although I don't think vaiksal should mean bad outside of memes)

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms remember, vaiksal is pronounced like the letter "c" :)

Redwolf Programs

lol

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms People who like Vyxal are free to interpret "bad" as "bad@$$"

Redwolf Programs

That definitely will not create any issues lol

Ginger Industries

21:33

Actual word for bad should be owo :P

Redwolf Programs

No w :/

DLosc

@GingerIndustries Maybe ovo?

Redwolf Programs

How will our numbers work?

We need nineteen

Ginger Industries

@DLosc it's pronounced "owo"

Redwolf Programs

oro would be closer if you want to keep the pronounciation

Since our phonetics allow pronouncing r as w

Ginger Industries

21:35

okay, oro

Wezl - a cautionary tale

omo

Ginger Industries

this is basically a meme language :/

DLosc

ktom o izl my mi su mi

3

Wezl - a cautionary tale

what was the main purpose of this language again?

Ginger Industries

what

Redwolf Programs

21:35

@GingerIndustries Not really, just meme word suggestions

A word's only a word if people use it

Ginger Industries

@DLosc what

DLosc

"My bitey cat is eating me"

Ginger Industries

I need to learn this language so I can understand stuff

please help

Redwolf Programs

ktom is "to eat"

Ginger Industries

grammar, not words

I have the full word list right here gestures at screen

Redwolf Programs

21:36

my mi is "my"

So o izl my mi is "my bitey cat"

And su indicates mi is the object (what's being eaten)

komy

yps

Ginger Industries

the thing is, I came up with the word ordering and still don't get it :/

Redwolf Programs

It takes some practice, it's a lot different from english

hyper-neutrino

[to eat] [possessed] [cat] [possessor] [me] [object] [me]

Ginger Industries

ah

Wezl - a cautionary tale

"ta o izl my mi ktom su mi" is also valid, no?

hyper-neutrino

21:38

no because verb is first

Ginger Industries

Ah yes, eating posessed cats

9

Wezl - a cautionary tale

not that kind of possessed

possessed by kind and tasty owners

Redwolf Programs

I mean, I suppose mi my [demon] would mean "I am possessed by a demon"

Ginger Industries

Can someone formally define the word ordering? I need a cheatsheet

Redwolf Programs

The word ordering isn't really that important compared to the casing

Ginger Industries

21:39

one sec

hyper-neutrino

really it's just "verb comes first" and that's about all there is to it

you can reorder the nouns however you want because of casing and that can probably lead to some natural emphasis of the important parts of a sentence based on the ordering chosen if it's flexible

Ginger Industries

I propose dfbct for demon

hm

Wezl - a cautionary tale

no c

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Hrm. That might or might not be grammatical... it glosses to "the demon's me" or "I of the demon" in English

Ginger Industries

dfbt

that sounds bad

hyper-neutrino

21:41

you kind of need vowels in every word

DLosc

Do you, though?

hyper-neutrino

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ginger Industries

intarnit for cursed

DLosc

We already have words like ktom and izl which are probably getting schwas implicitly added

hyper-neutrino

true

Ginger Industries

21:42

intarnit my maka

Wezl - a cautionary tale

are there not implicit schwas in "hyəperəneutərino"?

Ginger Industries

@pxeger I need write access to the repo to update the word list

Redwolf Programs

ta  [noun]  The subject ("I" in "I am selling your food to Mr. Mann")
    [noun]    Implied "ta"
su  [noun]  The direct object ("your food" in "I am selling your food to Mr. Mann")
lia [noun]  The indirect object ("Mr. Mann" in "I am selling your food to Mr. Mann", usually only shows up with words like "say", "give", or "sell")

[noun] my [owner]   Indicates possession; in "I am selling your food to Mr. Mann", "food" is the noun and "you" are the owner

2

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@GingerIndustries did you accept the organization invitation?

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale yes

Wezl - a cautionary tale

21:44

you should be able to edit, no?

Ginger Industries

I do not have write access

Wezl - a cautionary tale

because the word list is owned by the organization

Ginger Industries

ktom maka

DLosc

I don't have write access either.

Redwolf Programs

@GingerIndustries "All of us are eating"

Wezl - a cautionary tale

21:46

is cats "i" or "oi"?

Redwolf Programs

oi

DLosc

ktom maka su oi

Redwolf Programs

D:

yps

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@DLosc no

Redwolf Programs

We need a word for "to say"

Ginger Industries

21:47

ktom maka ta mi

Redwolf Programs

That has two subjects

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms sy

Wezl - a cautionary tale

24 mins ago, by Ginger Industries

WR: maka (pn, intj): All people in the discussion / "Hey everyone!"

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms grammar hard

Redwolf Programs

Are you trying to say "I am eating everyone"?

hyper-neutrino

21:48

do we have a dictionary somewhere

Wezl - a cautionary tale

no ktom mi su oi

hyper-neutrino

ktom mi su maka

Ginger Industries

@hyper-neutrino working on it

@RedwolfPrograms maybe

hyper-neutrino

how do we negate verbs

Redwolf Programs

@GingerIndustries Hyper has it, it'd be ktom mi su maka

hyper-neutrino

21:48

also what were our tenses again?

Redwolf Programs

pas (past), ni (present), and fy (future)

hyper-neutrino

ktom ta mi su maka to be complete but the ta can be omitted

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@hyper-neutrino no pas ktom shu su mi

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms ty

DLosc

And ni is optional

grandBagel

21:49

back

hyper-neutrino

what is the no here

Redwolf Programs

Maybe it can be like an "I eat" vs. "I am eating" thing?

grandBagel

what did i miss?

Ginger Industries

@hyper-neutrino github.com/tnb-conlang/tnb-conlang/blob/…

hyper-neutrino

continuous could be a separate tense

Redwolf Programs

21:49

Where ni implies it's sort of more-right-now than no tense

hyper-neutrino

past, present, future is really oversimplified

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms I was thinking that if you include ni it emphasizes that it's happening right now, yeah

Wezl - a cautionary tale

why is it "ktom" not "nom"?

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale Because nom was too obvious. Believe me, I thought of that first.

Wezl - a cautionary tale

okay ktom is funner anyway

Redwolf Programs

21:50

WR: hai (intj): Hi

Wezl - a cautionary tale

how about ha is singular hi, hai is plural hi :P

Ginger Industries

maka my mi

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale I like it!

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms VTC as duplicate of hiya

Wezl - a cautionary tale

you are all mine?

Redwolf Programs

21:51

WR: hada (v): To say something

(So we have a verb to play around with that can have an indirect object)

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale evil laugh

DLosc

susin Ginger

Redwolf Programs

pas hada mi "komy izl" lia shu

"I said 'the monkey is bitey' to you"

DLosc

* pas hada mi

Redwolf Programs

Oh yeah, I thought I was missing something

DLosc

21:54

hada mi lia o

Wezl - a cautionary tale

wrt punctuation let's allow commas outside of quotes plz, e.g. "what", I said

Redwolf Programs

And to emphasize different things, you could say pas hada mi lia shu "komy izl" instead, which means the same thing but emphasizes that I said it to you

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@DLosc anch'io

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Or even pas hada lia shu ta mi "komy izl"

Wezl - a cautionary tale

how do I say "me too"?

Redwolf Programs

21:55

We need a word for too, yeah

I was also going to reply me too but couldn't

Ginger Industries

fy hada mi "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"

hm

Redwolf Programs

sy fy [do] shu

"Yes, you will"

We need DLosc's generic verb

grandBagel

o kat hiya

Ginger Industries

WR: makima (intj): Me too

Redwolf Programs

For passive tense, do we just not include a subject?

DLosc

21:57

@RedwolfPrograms We can borrow it straight from the Quechua inspiration:

Redwolf Programs

ktom su o my mi

(My cat was eaten?)

Ginger Industries

oh dear

DLosc

WR: nai (v.): do something (unspecified)

2

Ginger Industries

no gust

grandBagel

I feel like there should be a bot that translates this language to english.

Redwolf Programs

21:58

NO GUST!

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@GingerIndustries I think there should be a "too" word, so you can say "... too" not just "me too"

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel good idea

@Wezl-acautionarytale ama: too

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Seems reasonable

Ginger Industries

idk what part of speech that would be

Redwolf Programs

Let's formalize it

Wezl - a cautionary tale

21:59

yes

Redwolf Programs

WR: ama: Too (in the meaning of "me too" or "in addition")

Since "too" can also mean, like, "too expensive"

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms part of speech?

DLosc

Good disambiguation

Redwolf Programs

No clue

Wezl - a cautionary tale

^^

Ginger Industries

21:59

hmm

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