Software Recommendations

Gilles

00:01

@Izzy yes

Izzy

@Gilles Thanks! I share your opinion here. What's your reasoning if I may ask?

Gilles

00:19

@Izzy depends on the question. If the question isn't relevant at all outside MySQL then it should be mysql only. If the question is likely to involve more generic database techniques, both tags should be used

Journeyman Geek

00:29

@Izzy: ^ that. Though, I'd think any software recommendation would end up being at least a little specialised.

Izzy

00:51

Thanks. And now for the reason behind my asking: what makes database in those cases different from server when asking for server-specific software?

Seth

05:23

Sam going on again about psychology I see..

Journeyman Geek

heh

Yanno, I've SPECIFICALLY told him that

Seth

Told him what?

Journeyman Geek

that the psycology references arn't helping

Seth

ah.

Braiam

05:36

@Izzy there, wasn't me but Gilles

Angelo Neuschitzer

07:20

@Izzy I'm uncertain if we need a database tag at all. Same reasoning why I said we don't need audio or music or video or programming. - OTOH a database is at least a software which can't be said for audio, music, video or programming.

kalina

12:30

@Seth I'm not sure I have t he energy to diffuse another situation like this atm

I'll be back in a few hours once I've started to sober up

although I imagine the moment I sober up I'll pass out

Izzy

13:40

@Braiam No, I know. I was playing on the general thing. We 3 had the "do-we-need-that-tag" discussion a few times lately ;)

@AngeloNeuschitzer What if you're looking for something with a database backend, but don't care which database it is? I don't doubt its usefulness.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Could you think of an example? I need a library that has database support? As I've said I'm very unsure here as a "database" at least is something (in contrast to "programming"), but so is an "os".

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Just click the tag to see. E.g. Free cross database edition software makes sense in this context (looking for an editor understanding the different "dialects" and able to export "schemata" for different databases)

Yuck for all the other ones it's rather mis-used, as they look for specific databases.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Hmm... What you think of Braiams answer here: meta.softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/536/…

Maybe we rename it to cross-database?

I see someone has taken on the tags... All tags I see without tag-wiki have no answers on them (up until now, I'm still not through the list)

Izzy

14:01

@AngeloNeuschitzer Yes and no. See above: What if I need something with a database backend, but don't care which database comes to play? That's not cross database. Examples are e.g. CMS, but I guess there are other things as well.

Angelo Neuschitzer

(oops, I just was on the wrong tab.)

@Izzy Hmm... I remember there is an english word for telling "need one but don't care which" but I forgot it. Like "database-independant" but better...

@Izzy Why could you need something that has a database backend? (In contrast to file storage, LDAP,... Why would you CARE?)

Also, is database only SQL-style relational database or does it include LDAP and theese fancy new "No-SQL" databases?

Izzy

14:33

@AngeloNeuschitzer Posted my own answer there, maybe you want to take a look? I took the "database" tag as example even, so it serves both purposes at the same time :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy already did :)

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Yes, I can imagine several reasons here.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy I like your approach and agree that "database" is a much better example than "bootable" I will update the question to contain it.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Both. You can see in the tag-wikis I created, in the "related tags" section, I list RDBMSs like MySQL along with No-SQL databases like MongoDB :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

But then you may want to have something like a storage tag. Because calling LDAP a "database" just feels wrong.

Izzy

14:38

@AngeloNeuschitzer :) If I remember correctly, I even put "bootable" on my list for tags-to-be-deleted. For exactly that reason: using it says nothing but "I don't understand how it works" (no offense meant ;)

Angelo Neuschitzer

Example: "I want a blog software that stores its entries in a database" - And I recommend the software behind this blog: blog.fefe.de - It would be wrong because this blog uses LDAP as storage.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer No, I don't want LDAP. I want a (relational) database for my < X >. Something I can query using standard SQL, to create statistics and more.

Angelo Neuschitzer

This bootable... I think I should kill it myself.

Izzy

LOL

Don't do, we need you here :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy But then NOSQL databases are wrong so if you want SOME sql style database then the tag should be rdbms or sql-database

Izzy

14:41

@AngeloNeuschitzer "I need a database which is light-weight, doesn't consume too much resources, but has at least the following features: ..."

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Relational Database? Directory Database?

Izzy

"Is there any database I could use locally, without the requirement of having a server running 24/7?"

Angelo Neuschitzer

WHAT Database?

Too broad.

I'd close a question like this.

"Any [what-] database"?

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer I remember there where NoSQL databases you could query using SQL statements. I might remember wrongly, though.

@AngeloNeuschitzer Like what?

Angelo Neuschitzer

Most of the time people who ask for "a database" mean "a relational database" but that is not the only kind there is. So "Is there any database..." question would disagree if I answer with LDAP.

Izzy

14:44

Btw, the examples I gave here right now are just "raw". Of course the needs would be specified en detail. They should just give you the idea/direction.

@AngeloNeuschitzer Sure, and right so.

Angelo Neuschitzer

What I'm up to is saying that "database" alone is too broad. Always. Because a LDAP is a database.

A directory database.

Izzy

Unless asked first in a comment if that would be acceptable as well.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy But then the database is misused because I answer with a database.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer And I say "sql-database" would sound, umm, strange. You would end up with users re-creating the "database" tag.

@AngeloNeuschitzer Question of definition, yes. Hard to tell without seeing your hypothetical answer.

I still thing "sql-database" would be taking it too far. If for a specific question tagged "database" an LDAP answer is right, so why not? We shouldn't over-complicate things.

Angelo Neuschitzer

(I should notice that I don't actually feel very strong about this. It just feels wrong to have it but I won't pick up a fight over it). On SO the tag to use is rdbms - How about using this and synonyming database to it?

Izzy

14:48

@AngeloNeuschitzer facepalm Yes, I'd totally agree to that!

Why didn't I think of this? Heck, I'm a DBA...

Angelo Neuschitzer

Great!

So, who suggests it?

@Izzy Were you partying with kalina?

Izzy

I've just setup excerpt and tag-wiki for "database". Maybe I should first copy that over to "rdbms" (with some adjustments) before it gets lost?

And then: It was your idea, feel free to go ahead.

@AngeloNeuschitzer My wife would have killed me if I were! But partying she was, as it looks like (needing to "sober" ;)

Angelo Neuschitzer

0

A: Private beta cleanup: tag synonyms and tag merges

Rename database to rdbms and add a synonym to it.

Izzy

Yupp. Question is: is renaming possible? To create the rdbms tag wiki, the tag needs to exist first. I'm hesitating to create it before we found agreement.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy You posted the tag wiki on the "where to put.." question.

So it is there for you to use as soon as this is done.

I'd say we just execute all suggestions on the Tag cleanup Question with more than 3 votes tomorrow.

Izzy

14:59

@AngeloNeuschitzer Yupp, right – I copy-pasted it completely. Good point – hope I remember then :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy I'll remind you.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Good point again. We need to get a CM on the synonyms, so we can delete completed questions.

@AngeloNeuschitzer Thanks!

Angelo Neuschitzer

So, next: charts and reporting. I feel they are basically the same, but the only charts question has not much to do with reporting.

I feel like removing it from the question, but otoh I do a lot of reporting and charting stuff so I'm kinda biased.

What you say?

Izzy

I was just about deleting my "mail versus emails", as they have been "merged" (rather re-tagged, as a "merge" can only be done my a diamond (or up) AFAIK – and that process optionally includes synonymizing). Then I saw the synonym wasn't created. Not sure if we need one there, though.

Angelo Neuschitzer

Yes, we need that synonym

(or does the system automatically detect such things?)

I remember that I can't rename plural to singular.

Izzy

15:04

@AngeloNeuschitzer I'd say those are quite different things, though they often "go alongside". A chart is basically a graph. A reporting can be a text or whatever, and may include charts.

@AngeloNeuschitzer Not that I know.

@AngeloNeuschitzer I'd say: What question? Checking...

Still say: What question? There's exactly one for each tag, none having both.

Angelo Neuschitzer

Works

Okay, there is no test that prevents "mail".

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Yeah, that's exactly one more thing I always forgot to raise: Should tags always be pluralized? We have emails, but also database. I remember on other SE sites they decided to unify this (all plural).

Angelo Neuschitzer

I feel like we should always use singular.

Izzy

Synonyms are a different issue (singular or plural). They are just "redirects", basically ;)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Yes. And I want to retag the ONE 'charts' Q to 'reporting'

Izzy

15:09

@AngeloNeuschitzer Yes, we make the difference #D All other sites IMHO use plural. Might that lead to confusion?

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy YES! Lets do it!

MUAHAHAHA

No seriously, if all others use plural as well I'd say we give in to peer pressure

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer LOL With that being the only reason: "You're all individuals!" – "Not me!" (quoting: Life of Bryan)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Nah. I can't use 'unit-test' as there is already 'unit-tests'

@Izzy Exactly. (Also I'm discordian, so that would fit in well)

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer That's correct: there's a check preventing the same tag to exist in both forms. It's an either-or (XOR).

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy So, keep that up and modify it to "synonym mail to email"

Izzy

15:14

@AngeloNeuschitzer Charts are a basic requirement there, though it's somehow about "reporting". I'm not sure whether "reporting" is the central point there. From the business POV: "Prepare shipping" would match as well – and charts were pure visualization of where the biggest "ships" are needed.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Just checked your profile. When I'm next time in munich, lets meet! (I live in Freiburg)

Izzy

The term "reporting" to me has something historical (you report of "past times", not of "things-to-come")

@AngeloNeuschitzer Oh! Yeah, give me a ping then!

I've never been to Freiburg (and have no such plans yet) – but if you're around here...!

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy You should come, its marvelous! Freiburg is totally like Munich, only the people are friendlier and everything is smaller (except the rent).

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Ooops? and create "email" as synonym to "emails"? Yuck. #D

Angelo Neuschitzer

But I've been living in MUC for quite a while and lots of friends and family there so I visit it every 6 months or so.

Izzy

15:19

@AngeloNeuschitzer Ah! Sounds good. I'm living in Schwabing, in case that matters ;)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy I just use tools like 'JasperReports' a lot and other BI Suites also treat this as "reporting"

Izzy

Put it into that Meta-post. I'm not sure I'm the one to decide this :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

Done.

Meh, I want to get rid of gif and the only question holding it open is "on-hold" and doesn't seem to improve.

Hah. Solved (another one bites the dust)

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer maybe introduce untagged? We'll either be getting that as soon as questions are migrated to us.

3ventic

untagged is restricted afaik

Angelo Neuschitzer

15:32

@Izzy I really would prefer not to use this. In the given situation I could use "animation"

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer another one for you: do we need a synonym "composing → music-composition"? If not: Maybe you delete your [answer here](meta.softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/423/185/#491)?

@AngeloNeuschitzer Whatever. Was just a raw idea :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

15:53

Should we work on a list of "bad" tags that should be blacklisted? Who can blacklist a tag?

Izzy

16:18

@AngeloNeuschitzer Diamonds and above AFAIK. Maybe only "above".

Angelo Neuschitzer

"above" what is "above"? I thought Diamonds where the upper end...?

Izzy

No. SE stuff is "above" ;)

Angelo Neuschitzer

Ah, I thought that was the same.

Izzy

@Angelo maybe you move this answer to Too narrow tags: What to do with them?

@AngeloNeuschitzer No. Diamonds are "community elected mods".

jokerdino

mods can't blacklist a tag.

Izzy

16:23

@AngeloNeuschitzer this answer has been completed as well. Please delete :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Hmm... nah. Its already been done. Theese two Qs do overlap. Well so be it.

I deleted the A as its already done.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer The question already said: when done, delete, or the list will become hard to handle. One more candidate here.

Angelo Neuschitzer

Already gone :)

Izzy

Unfortunately, even a CW can only be deleted by its author – or a "high rep" we don't have (yet), or a mod we don't have either (yet)...

@AngeloNeuschitzer Great, thanks!

I've already flagged the Q for "mod attention", so a CM might fulfill our synonym requests (as we cannot yet do that on our own).

That's why I'm going over, marking stuff, cleaning up – so the one taking the task has an easier job.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Great!

Izzy

16:32

@AngeloNeuschitzer Will you check your other questions as well, and delete if already processed? Or do you prefer me mentioning each of them explicitly here? :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

I currently add tag wikis

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Nice. But maybe you could delay that in favour of making things easier for the CM? If we make it easier for him, he might be more willing to help out :)

Your answers on "resource-packaging" and "invoice" can "go" as well.

Angelo Neuschitzer

I have a look at the Tag Qs immediately.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer what about maps versus navigation? Do we have any agreement here?

@AngeloNeuschitzer Thanks!

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy No.

@Izzy I can't delete any more posts of mine today.

I didn't notice that there was a 5 deletes / day limit..

So, if you see one that are completed just mark them as such.

Izzy

16:45

@AngeloNeuschitzer Huh? There's a limit on deleting ones own posts?

@AngeloNeuschitzer any opinion on antivirus versus virus-scanner? No votes there yet. Clearly synonyms.

Angelo Neuschitzer

Is the vote on SMS/MMS from you?

@Izzy Yep. Haven't seen that one.

@Izzy short-messages... don't feel good about it. How about "mobile-messaging"?

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Yepp. Together with the comment.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Good, then I don't need to state the upvote in the edit :)

I used "mobile-messaging" now as I feel thats more to the point.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer No. That would include chat, email, etc. If you take a look at Android Permissions: the SMS/MMS stuff is often combined there and then gets the title "short messages" (Kurznachrichten). Maybe that's a better name: "short-messages" or "short-messaging"?

Angelo Neuschitzer

But MMS have a length of iirc 15kb

thats not "short"

And I don't feel bad of including chat, email etc. in this in case it evolves that way.

@Izzy But maybe "mobile-messaging-services" could catch your fancy?

Izzy

16:58

@AngeloNeuschitzer Don't tell me! But it's still "short" compared to any simple HTML mail #D And it's the parent-term ("Oberbegriff") commonly used for the two.

@AngeloNeuschitzer No, for the very same reason: too broad. Includes WhatsApp, Skype, Viber, and others as well.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy And you think its necessary to distinguish between them?

From my point of view (who never used any of them except SMS) they are "all the same"

@Izzy But you seem to be more into this topic

Opinions please: meta.softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/423/…

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer what about partition versus file-system? Did I convince you? Or is the issue still open?

@AngeloNeuschitzer Yes. SMS/MMS just go directly via your provider, not involving a "3rd party", and billed for via your provider (let the flatrate quesion aside for a moment). They are neither real-time communication.

Angelo Neuschitzer

17:17

@Izzy Okay. I remove 'mobile-messaging'

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer There you go :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Thanks!

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Leaves the Q how to group mms/sms. The usual term is "short messaging" IMHO (though that directly refers SMS = Short Message Service). But take into consideration that group-SMS often gets converted to MMS, these two definitely form a group.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Yeah, I just look for consistence (e.G. to categories in Wikipedia) to use the same wording "everybody else" is already used to. But as the german and english wikipedia aren't consistent on this (and your rep on android.SE marks you as much more an expert then I am) I just take your word for it :)

@Izzy You convinced me.

@Izzy I still feel like "partition" is too narrow.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Thanks :) I just was busy editing your answer when you did. Thanks to your edit, there was no need to commit mine :) Full ack on the current version. I'll mark it such for the "processing mod". And will check what you mean with the English Wikipedia: What link did you check?

@AngeloNeuschitzer Admitted, I'm a little wavering on that: it's quite specific, but I'm not sure whether to go so far as calling it "too narrow".

Angelo Neuschitzer

17:28

@Izzy The MMS article in german wikipedia is categorized as "Short-Message-Service" the english is not.

Multimedia Messaging Service

Multimedia Messaging Service (MMS) is a standard way to send messages that include multimedia content to and from mobile phones. It extends the core SMS (Short Message Service) capability that allowed exchange of text messages only up to 160 characters in length. The most popular use is to send photographs from camera-equipped handsets, although it is also popular as a method of delivering news and entertainment content including videos, pictures, text pages and ringtones. The standard is developed by the Open Mobile Alliance (OMA), although during development it was part of the 3GPP an...

category: Mobile telecommunication services

Izzy

Yuck. communication is a little broad as well. Anything not covered by another tag currently this could be useful for?

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Vote for it here: meta.softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/531/…

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer It extends the core SMS (Short Message Service) capability makes this grouping implicitly, wouldn't you agree? Like EDGE extends GPRS, and both are grouped as "2G".

Angelo Neuschitzer

(afk)

@Izzy Yes totally. But have a look at the question where it is used. Thats like the parade example for a "communication tool" and I hit my head really hard to come up with a better one

@Izzy ack

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer No vote, as unsure (left my comment, though). Maybe you check the bootable and leave your vote/comment? :)

Izzy

20:21

Yuck, what was that? Network outage?

Angelo Neuschitzer

I have no idea. But I hope that doesn't happen too often. I always have to open my about:config to set the referrer bit.

(re, btw.)

Seth

We have partially mitigated a DDoS attack against our network. We are continuing to watch traffic.

Tweeted by StackStatus on February 16, 2014 at 8:05 PM

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Seth thanks. Good to know.

Creepy though. I had the impression that SE is big enough that a DDoS against it is kinda... pointless...

Seth

AFAIK it is impossible to completely guard against a DDoS

Angelo Neuschitzer

You can't DDoS Google.

(A friend of mine works for them and he made a back-of-the-envelope calculation that you would need about 10^9 bots to bring the search engine down)

Not saying that you can't DDoS GMail or G+ or so.

But still, one needs a huge botnet to attack a site as large as SE (on a slow day as Sunday where there should be more capacities available).

Seth

20:33

@AngeloNeuschitzer Indeed.

Izzy

@Seth Ouch! Thanks for the hint, Seth, that definitely explains things.

There still seem to be troubles. Cannot yet load a page on Meta, for example.

Angelo Neuschitzer

I always wonder why somebody should do that... In a networking job I had once it was a clear "Give Money or you go down" thing. But I can't imagine that SE would be the target of such threads.

Izzy

"Why do you do that?" – "Because I can." Script-kiddies want to boast. It's like on a hunt: who brought down the biggest deer...

Btw: Further opinions on the bootable tag? In short: It seems useless, as either it's applied erraneously or redundant.

OS = bootable by definition. Everything else: not bootable by definition (auto-start is something different)

Angelo & me already agreed to remove the tag. I prefer a little stronger consent than simply that of "the two Sunday activists" :)

@Seth, @Gilles? ^^

Seth

20:51

Yeah, remove it. Sounds meta to me.

Izzy

@Seth Indeed. Voted? :)

Seth

Oh, didn't see the link.

done.

Izzy

@Seth Thanks! I'd say we should have 3+ clear votes on suggested tag removals. If you place your voted, it's 2 now.

I don't want to act as "enforcer", I prefer to feel your "backing" here :)

@Seth maybe check to vote the other answers on that page as well?

Seth

I agree with all of them.. so upvoted :D

Angelo Neuschitzer

We all should take a look at all the elements tagged [tagging] on meta to have a most clear voting on how that should get along. If all 8 people here in the channel would give their votes there were a much clearer impression.

@Seth did you see the "too narrow tags" question?

Seth

21:04

Don't think so.

Angelo Neuschitzer

2

Q: Too narrow tags: What to do with them?

We've got a bunch of tags which are pretty narrow, and thus not much of use. Similar to Private beta cleanup: tag synonyms and tag merges, I suggest we use this "question" to collect those CW-wise to decide on each one (one tag per answer). Other than "over there", answers here should not be del...

Have a link

Seth

oh, yeah I just saw that one.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer That's the one @Seth just processed :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Ah great.

Izzy

I just saw one problem: I've not always be clear about what "upvote"/"downvote" is supposed to mean. e.g. on the "amazon" tag it might be confusing.

Angelo Neuschitzer

21:07

@Seth Lovely, now we only need to linger around until somebody else also shows activity here and prod them to have a look at all the answers to this two questions and we might get as much as 5 votes on all of them.

Izzy

@Seth did your upvote mean "keep" or "kill" here? ^^

Seth

@Izzy kill

@AngeloNeuschitzer BLANKET PINGS FTW!

(jk)

Izzy

@Seth OK, thanks, then it matches. Will make that clear now, just in case.

OK, processed all 2+ answers from Too narrow tags: What to do with them?, and marked them accordingly.

For everybody who might have missed it: Angelo and me where going through the Private beta cleanup: tag synonyms and tag merges answers today, and I've flagged this question to "ping a CM" as we cannot do the synonyms on our own.

2

To make things easier for the "processing mod", I've placed summaries on the answers, holding the "consensus".

Hoping for a CM to appear (I'm a believer, I want my apparition now – LOL)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Patience young Padawan

Okay, another "too-narrow" candidate (and I'm quite sure about it so one: Kill it - And I kill it): "contact-form"

(One keep it and I put it in the too narrow tag Q

Angelo Neuschitzer

21:35

Okay, gotta go for today. I will kill it now.

Gilles

@AngeloNeuschitzer I see you propose a lot of tag synonyms for tags that are vaguely related. That's not what they're for. If two tags are synonyms, they form a single tag. That's only done for names that are used to mean the same thing.

Izzy

@AngeloNeuschitzer Fine with me.

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