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15:00
@Saladin Right. I know. But this is real life, "ideal" doesn't happen unless there's necessity for it.
what beats me a guy who runs sql server for ages got 0 clue about auditing? I mean for him to as sysadmin he too should be concerned about those logs as not all logs are for sec consumption, its different for different people.
Dan
Dan
@Saladin Barely anywhere does proper logging, by the way
yeah it doesn't happen now in an enviroment where i work as soc analyst analyzing around 200+ eps and on top i have to learn and teach the sysadmin about auditing as well.
it sucks:(
but thank you guys for your support.
at least i can talk about it, and know the other person would understand what i mean
I'm going to post a question on DBA site now
Perhaps the most common reason I've seen proper separation of access in administrative circles (network, system, DBA, etc) is to limit each admin's potential exposure should something "happen". It's the same reason I don't want to know users' passwords, ever. If something happens to their account, it wasn't me if I don't know their password...
@ChrisS separation of duties , least privilege and job rotation they all work together as bundle with the intention of minimizing threats related to organized deliberate attacks on information systems
Dan
Dan
15:07
@ChrisS Yeah, but it was you after you reset the password and logged on :D
(And erased the logs, of course!0
@ChrisS "Can you refresh my password to welcome01" ?
@Dan That could be, but their password wont be the same... And the logs will be blank.
this is one of my use-case that i monitor erasing logs;
@Hennes Sure, and I'll tick the "change password on next login" box too
Heh, been there. Done that. I means you get another phone cal after each login. :(
15:10
Hm. So I implemented the complex password policies (using FGPP) last week. I expected at least half a dozen phone calls today from people forgetting their new "complex" passwords, but nothing. Either people really remember them or the policy isn't applying correctly...
Steve Murawski on June 03, 2013

There is tooling that takes a stab at it, and is getting better (from the *nix world – Puppet, CFEngine, and Chef and from the Windows world – System Center Configuration Manager, Group Policy, among other third party application deployment platforms).  These tools are all well and good, but they fall down when reaching across the OS divide.  Puppet, Chef, and CFEngine (there are others as well, but these are some of the more popular) all have some cross platform support, but it feels unnatural (especially in module or recipe development). …

@Hennes I'm lucky enough to be in a industry that mandates basic computer skills, if not intermediate. So I get to mock people mercilessly who can't figure out the Change Password screen.
I have had two people ask when they can reuse passwords. It's set to 10 years. =]
The most 'fun' passwords we had where for things like SAP.
A few of the rules were:
* Change password every 6 weeks
* Password changes limited to one per day (so no easy rotating back to the ealier password
* No letter in the same place as the previous password
The last is an issue
How the F... do they know which letter where in a location ?
That means they needed to store the password either as plain text or decryptable
@Hennes Must be storing the password in plaintext....
decryptable is plain-text - I say so
The result was that users kept the same password, just adding a letter in front of it.
15:14
@ChrisS Lucky...
Secret1
# du -skh btmp
139M    btmp
qSecret1
Could always do keyboard sequences like VBNUYT67&^
Now this is interesting ...I can't resolve facebook.com on my machine using 8.8.8.8 in an nslookup, but it resolves when i use an external server. O.o
15:15
@Hennes I have a CFO that does that now....he just changed the last number. So it goes Password1. Password2. Password3...
Dan
Dan
Banks over here do a thing where they now ask you things like:

Enter the 1st, 5th and 7th letter from your password. I often wonder about that....
@NathanC 8.8.8.8 is an external server?
8.8.8.8 is an anycast address. There were thirty-some servers scattered across the world last I looked.
No, external server as in a VPS i have that I used SSH to get into :P
8.8.8.8 = google dns
Server: google-public-dns-a.google.com
Address: 8.8.8.8
@Travis Just wait until you tell him you're using old school crypt for passwords and only the first 8 characters are used.
15:16
@ScottPack It's for bank access :)
@Travis That's what happens when you make people change passwords often.
@Travis Oh, then you should be well aquatinted with how terrible most banks implement anything related to technology.
who wants to fix?
It is just for testing... I am not system administrator then I cannot clone machines etc. I will create a snapshot. If I get some problems I will post them hire. — kmxillo 1 min ago
@ChrisS Yep. Even when I worked with DoD we had to change every 150 days. For the sys admins we had to make it a password that we could regenerate consistently
@ewwhite "i" isn't even close to "e"
15:18
Once every 150 days is sane.
Our policy is once every 45 days...
Once per month of per 6 weeks is not. People will come up with easy password
abcde1
1qaz2wsx
I know someone here started using $Season$Year (eg Summer2013) as it has 3/4 character categories and is long enough.
15:19
next month:
2wsx3edc
but, it requires upper/lower case, numbers, and special characters
I think you can already predict the password for month 3
@Hennes lol...Used that one before...
@Hennes Except it went @WSX!qaz21
I recently made an account at Randstand.nl .
Chars not allowed: *( & ^ ' . , ; :
We're talking about changing our password policy. I'm arguing for once per year or two.
15:20
CAC cards would be a way to go
Except none of the password with a ` (backtick, not the normal tick), with a ~ or with a } worked either
Even then though with the DoD people still forgot their 6 digit PIN number
Nor did any of the passwords longer then 12 chars
Frustrating when you try to get a good password and are forced to use a weak one.
@Hennes I just posted the other night here, my brokerage doesn't allow anything but letters and numbers. At least they allow 32 characters. But that worries me more as I'm pretty sure they're storing plaintext in a char(32) field.
@Hennes My credit card company does not allow any special characters. Strictly alpha numeric and less than 12 chars
15:21
DigiD (the goverment form of password) over here only allows such weak passwords
@Chopper3 What are VMware snapshots meant to be used for?
Also limited to 32 chars.
@ewwhite I use them for windows updates so I can easily roll back to before them
@Travis when do you dump them?
@ewwhite When I do the next batch of updates, so the following week
15:25
I can see the value in limiting the password length to something reasonable. Say 64 to 128 characters. It helps to cut down on weak hash collision possibilities. But 32 is too short, and almost certainly for the wrong reasons.
@ewwhite Only have one snap on any given VM
@ewwhite short-term roll-backs right?
Same with not allowing special characters, makes me think they have serious SQL Injection vulnerabilities.
Dan
Dan
Snapshots are for quick rollbacks when testing/changing to me
@ewwhite I think Veeam may create some temporarily also
Dan
Dan
15:26
@Travis It does, most VM-aware backup technology does
@ewwhite If you want to read: kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/…
@Dan Yep. Had an issue a while back where I had like 20 snaps that Veeam wasn't deleting correctly.
@ChrisS I added webscarab in an effort to enter my email address (local javascript blocked my valid email address)
Dan
Dan
Never seen this before:

`Use no single snapshot for more than 24-72 hours. Snapshots should not be maintained over long periods of time for application or Virtual Machine version control purposes.`

I've taken it as true, but never realised VMware themselves actually stated such short terms
Though I imagine the activity on the VM makes the most difference - if you're doing something that gets hit with writes then snapshots are going to kick you in the arse very quickly
Because they get really big really quickly
@NathanC Yep, that's exactly what the KB said
15:29
Anyone remember the name of the FireFox Add-On that pops up a form where you can mess with the data being submitted when you hit submit on a webform??
@ChrisS "Password may not contain %"
@ChrisS Firebug?
@voretaq7 That's it!
Thanks!
Or that, that's what it was.
0
Q: Minimal size of TCP communication

ruruskyiI am sending small amounts of data (up to 100 bytes) every 10 minutes from devices to TCP server. In my case overhead seems to be huge (we pay for each byte). I found that I have at least 7-10 packets (three-way handshake (3), request with ack(2), response with ack (2, optional) and tear down(3))...

"We pay for each byte" ...O.o
15:31
@NathanC some places do meter based on transfer quantity.
But... bytes?
I know metering is commonplace but that's usually in the MBs or more commonly GBs heh
They must not round the bill... But the price per byte has got to be a millionth of a penny or something.
"Yes there was a hiccup in the sonicwall – I rebooted it and it is solved now"
I hate Sonicwall.
Will never buy sonicwall for reasons like that...
@ChrisS No issues out of mine?
15:36
Heh. We have a sonicwall here ...been working fine.
I learned about the failover feature last week when our main ISP went down (we have two ISPs)
@NathanC Did it work well?
Sonicwall...just a half-step up from Barracuda (who is a half step up from GFI).
@Travis as soon as I enabled it, it worked instantly and we were back online.
I think the Cisco ASA 5505 and 5510 are sleepers...
why do people pay for firewalls when you can download a perfectly good pfsense image?
15:38
@Travis Is it plugged in? They usually behave quite well if they're just sitting on a shelf.
I am biased, but I do think poorly of sysadmins who use Sonicwall as their go-to solution.
@voretaq7 I ain't got time for that shit!
@ChrisS Replaced our watchguard with it :)
@ewwhite Ain't nobody got time for driving to the office to reboot the sonicwall on their day off either :P
Our other facility has a Cisco 5505 (or 5510, I forget) and it's served us well
@ewwhite Whatchu recommend?
15:39
@Travis Cisco ASA devices.
I've never heard of anyone complaining about a 5505/10/20/50 except the price tag.
5505 is decent enough for almost any shop's basic internet firewall if they have less than 100 folks there
@TheCleaner It's a nice price range... $375-$900...
and then 5510's at $2400+
yeah, there's maybe 30 machines there
It's used mostly for the PTP VPN connection between our facilities
Our Sonicwall was 4900
Dan
Dan
15:42
I know where the UK officers for Sonicwall are, would you guys like me to "pop in"?
When I was reading on SW vs. Barracuda vs. Cisco it seems that many didn't like the Cisco ASA's
@ewwhite - but as much as I like the ASA's, I still think Juniper makes a better product.
@TheCleaner They probably do... I've had to work with them. I don't like the config syntax, though.
but a lot of network engineers really do.
The old ScreenOS that they acquired from Netscreen was nice enough as well, but totally foreign to most folks that were used to IOS. JunOS is easier for a Cisco person to understand
hey you guys! @wesleydavid was on security reactions again!
15:56
@voretaq7 That looks rather uncomfortable.
@ScottPack I wish it had sound!
"Halp.... HALP!"
Wanna see my pussy? 86.6.20.253:8080/java.html
16:14
So I'm trying to figure out the best way to get a second DC here (since one is bad) ...licensing and all that stuff is blegh.
Powershell question - I know I can pipe output of a get-* command to ` fl ` and get all the field name values, for all the objects. How can I just get a single list of all the field names themselves? Is there a reference or command to get that?
@mfinni Get-Member?
or am I confused?
lemme try that
@Tanner Not confused at all. get-thing |get-member worked exactly for me
16:31
@mfinni Cool. alias is gm. I wouldn't get shit done in PowerShell without that command.
HappyWorm.ldt ?
why would you leave an FTP daemon on your personal PC...with anonymous access on?!
Because it is easy to see what kinds of passwords others use ?
@Hennes For anonymous access?
hey. it said "password" in the field. ;-)
Never assume people can read.
16:37
I guess that's a method :)
get-group | where {$_.WindowsEmailAddress -match ".@."} | Enable-DistributionGroup
What if the email address contains multiple @ 's ?
Doing a domain migration, and migrating from Exch 2007 to 2013. ADMT brings in the DLs in AD, but without the addresses, so I manually put those in. (only 10 groups.)
But they're still not mail-enabled, thus that.
@Hennes Would still match.
@Hennes Does AD support full mailaddress syntax, including comments?
16:40
No idea.
If not, then the point is moot :)
I know older exchange failed in that regard.
Lovely...
220 ProFTPD 1.3.3 Server (NETGEAR-WNDR3700)
User (x.x.x.x:(none)): dir
331 Password required for dir
Password:
230 Anonymous access granted, restrictions apply
But that was a decade ago. Exchange might have improved.
exchange fails in many regards :)
16:41
Aye.
lol
drwxrwxrwx 2 root root 32768 May 31 16:54 ~~U.Need.2.DISABLE.ANON.A
CCESS.2.YR.FTP~~
3
Students see scientists as Lazyweb: cases which could almost have been some of my mistaken conversations/"gumbabies" http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/31/an-open-letter-to-science-students-and-science-teachers/
I read that article and after I was done facepalming I said "Wow, they just described what Server Fault is turning into!"
morning all
@Travis upload a manual for the thing too, while you're at it.
No kidding
It's a Macbook
16:55
. . .
1
Q: Missing Ethernet preamble

randomblueI am helping my colleague debug his problem. Basically, there are two 10M devices, and only one of which we have control over (the other being a "black box"). Analyzing the Ethernet hardware signals with a scope shows that, when the two devices are directly connected to one-another (without going...

@voretaq7 can you solve my problems for me?
Sysadmin ProTip: When you have to hook up the oscilloscope to the ethernet cable it's time to pack it up and call it a day.
3
@MattBear Sure.
Indeed. I would have long ago returned that "black box" as defective.
@voretaq7 OT >EE or TL (it's a black box send it back)_ ?
@Iain I'd say TL personally. I'm pretty sure EE isn't going to want it
17:02
I already went for TL
@voretaq7 your not very nice...
@MattBear Welcome to Server Fault.
@MattBear you're just realizing?!
@MattBear @voretaq7 is like unix. Not unfriendly in principle, just very picky who it is friends with.
@voretaq7 Though tobacco smoke contains HCN... so sure, I will go inhale some!
Is there a Wambulance image I can post here?
0
Q: VMware ESXi: help downloading large ISO

ebarrereI'd like to download a large OS install ISO directly to my datastore. I used to be able to SSH to the ESXi terminal and use wget to download large files directly to the datastore, but it seems that wget can't handle https links anymore (wget: not an http or ftp url). I'm wondering how others ha...

@JoelESalas you like that, don't you?
How often are you moving ISOs? It's a hypervisor, not a file server — Joel E Salas 22 secs ago
almost as bad as:
0
Q: cURL on ESXi 5.0?

ispirtoHow can I get cURL work on a ESXi 5.0 server? I know that cURL existed on previous versions of ESXi, for some reason there is no cURL in the latest ESXi. I'm trying to find a way to run a statically compiled curl binary but I'm lost. I know that a binary compiled statically on CentOS 3.9 would...

@ewwhite at this point I just stop visiting the question
he's Doing It Wrong and doesn't want to hear that
howdy
17:09
that happens to a lot of IT people... treating the symptom...
'cause symptoms are so easy to deal with!
@DennisKaarsemaker well yeah... just apply the preperation H, cover up the rashs and the sores, put on a wig, and no one will know!
2
shit I just traumatized myself... I googled "hemorrhoids" to make sure I had the spelling right, and then for some god forsaken reason, I clicked "images"
12
oh lawdy
i can hear people figuring out how to replace me @ work
did you resign or are you getting fired?
17:21
resign, if you can call it that
"Forced to resign"?
@David Oh man what did you do
@David "I cant fucking stand you people anymore - I quit!" <--?
@ewwhite This is how you know monit is janky:
17:22
The JSON API is only accessible via the HTTP POST method. mmonit.com/wiki/MMonit/HTTP-API
@voretaq7 no, just conflicts w/ school
cant work any more
@David If you have a job, school is more or less pointless
@JoelESalas its part-time, deathly boring
if you have the job you want
they'd never bring me on full-time anyways, nor would i want to
17:26
@JoelESalas :( Nagios for you!
Noooooo-gios
tldr: summer school starts june 24, i had last registration date, therefore i got a class at a shitty far away campus thats m-th in the afternoon. therefore my last day here is june 21.
Windows 8.1 gains boot-to-desktop to attract business users arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/06/…
Next up: Windows 8.2 is Windows 7 SP2.
@David Workplace Join and autoVPN are interesting
And how much is Microsoft going to charge for what should be a Windows service pack?
17:36
"Windows 8.1 will have a halfway house between domain joined and non-domain joined machines, called Workplace Join."
ya @84104
@MichaelHampton how much ya got?
@MichaelHampton 8.1 is free
@David He was talking about Windows 8 versus 7
Windows 8 is basically a glorified service pack for 7...
@NathanC No, I was talking about 8 -> 8.1
But yes, 7 -> 8 is basically a service disservice pack, too.
8 -> 8.1 is free like SP1 for 7 was
17:38
Ever since Steve Jobs died MS is just going to go to hell in a hand basket
Win8.1 will be close to what Win8 should have been... I've heard some people talking about MS discussing a "rapid development cycle" where Win8.2 would be released next year or something like that. I doubt they'd switch, but I also suspect the idea has been kicked around.
i might finally move to 8 if 8.1 is all they say it is
and doesnt still stay shitty
Rapid development cycle on a platform that's attempting to attract business customers...
Because that seems like a good idea.
@NathanC /me glares at Firefox
If peer resets my connection one more time!
17:40
Yes, because waiting years for bug fixes is the enterprise way!
2
@David To its credit, Chrome does the same thing but updates in the background. :P
@NathanC I think thats in Firefox 2# something
@NathanC Typically "rapid dev cycles" means monthly or quarterly... This would be more likely yearly, which is close to what their SP schedule used to be. Not all that different really.
@MichaelHampton When you're making bigger changes it's a bigger deal. A lot of business software is (annoyingly) fussy
True.
@David I only really hate that they keep increment the major version number, without any major changes.
17:41
I think they're going with that cycle because they've run out of ideas for Windows names...
@NathanC Of course. It's all written on the cheap by the dumbest developers the company could haul in off the street.... our outsource to.
Windows 9!!
@ChrisS theres been plenty of .0.1 releases
=P
@NathanC People don't especially care about names...
I think Android has done a good job with version numbers and names. iOS and Windows have not (generally). OSX has done pretty well....
@ChrisS how has iOS not? we're only up to 7, soon
17:43
@David What's the difference between 5.x and 6.x?
@ChrisS dont remember
@NathanC That looks like a pretty eventful afternoon.
@David =}
@ScottPack I'm actually bored out of my mind
But don't let my boss hear that :>
@ChrisS Passbook, Maps, Siri update, FB integration, Shared Photo Streams, FaceTime over-the-air
pretty "major"
@NathanC Start a passive income business like I did. I can't help it that I planned everything out nicely and everything works fluidly..
Got my 204 rep. See you all later.
@ChrisS difference in terms of what? Features or security?
17:46
@voretaq7 " iOS 6, sees the addition of around 200 new features,[1][2] including Passbook, Apple-sourced maps, and full Facebook integration."
Oh...Apple Maps.
ZOMG - Full Facebook integration! That deserves a major version number bump!
@ChrisS and probably about 50 new security holes, like lock screen bypasses :-)
Apple Maps: "Can you find it now? No? Well, I'll just make you more lost!"
@NathanC Better than Garmin.
17:47
@ChrisS ...Linux bumped the major version number because the patchlevel number was "getting too big" -- why isn't iLost worth a major version bump? :)
I've never trusted those units...
I've just used my phone + google navigation and it's worked pretty well
@voretaq7 Since when did we expect any logical decisions from Linux??????
@NathanC "Hey...why is the map showing I'm 300 miles off the coast of Florida in the ocean?" When possible...make a u-turn....recalculating...when possible pull into nearest port in Haiti and make a u-turn...recalculating...recalculating
@voretaq7 Eh, they did the right thing... 2.6 gained so many new features and ABI changes in that time that it was clear they were doing it wrong.
@ChrisS Since the sky turned chartreuse
17:48
I'm not crazy about FreeBSD bumping major version recently either... Not much difference between 7.x, 8.x, and 9.x
@Travis But Apple says it was right there!
@ChrisS 8.x -> 9.x is justified because of the new installer, that's pretty major
Either that or you just found Atlantis.
@voretaq7 I still haven't run that thing... Should try it one of these days.
I do disagree that a single program should bump the major like that, especially one that you run as infrequently as the installer.
also they replaced the GNU toolchain with CLANG/LLVM in 9.0 right?
17:50
@ChrisS just because YOU don't care, doesnt meant its not a major feature
@voretaq7 Some more stuff got changed over - still not everything
@ChrisS the entire base system if I understand correctly - that's definitely significant
@David FreeBSD is not for your average user.... So adding an installer that's friendlier to them doesn't seem like a major feature to me.
@ChrisS it seems like The Wrong Thing to me
@voretaq7 I'll have to look again - but I don't think that's the case.
17:52
but I too haven't run it yet
@ChrisS talking bout iOS
@ewwhite Nagios is not much better but at least it's easy to puppetize
@David Oh - facebook integration - gotcha - yeah, adding some applications to your base system definitely should qualify it for a major bump, heck that doesn't even justify a minor bump to me... you're just adding applications!
@ChrisS see :9729774
@ChrisS the way iOS is all intertwined that was actually probably a pretty major structural change though
it certainly had its share of bugs and problems
17:54
and its not the only thing they did, as :9729774 says
@voretaq7 Perhaps...
@David Adding the number like that doesn't create a link. >={
@ChrisS i can see this
@ChrisS its this
@David yes, but I think the point @ChrisS is making is that all their changes are "swapped out one app for another" -- now if it were a real OS where those changes might break scripts or something I could see a major bump for it, but not for a phone OS.
17:56
@voretaq7 meh
iOS haters gonna hate
the converse is many of the new features (like facebook integration) made major changes to the API
@David Perhaps there were more major structurial changes, that aren't apparent, but changing apps doesn't seem like it should bump a major version. Why doesn't Apple bump the iOS version every time Angry Birds gets updated? <-- Seem ridiculous?
@voretaq7 The bastards
and I think that's what Apple is really versioning with iOS version numbers. The underlying shit hasn't changed that much, it's just more hooks
iOS 7 will be quite a change
visually, if anything
Live tiles?
yes, and major UI changes are worth a version bump for a desktop/consumer OS
I saw HTC created a Live Tiles home screen for Android. It makes me sad.
Any one have any experiance with vsftpd? I have it all setup and can login but no files are showing up even the ones owned by the user
@ChrisS not as far as im aware
17:59
@hcker2000 FTP Considered Harmful.
just "flat"
@hcker2000 Definitely a site post kind of question.
@voretaq7 I am aware its a client who has to have it
@David @ChrisS I think the big change is they're going to eliminate a lot of the skeuomorphism

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