The Comms Room

ewwhite

14:00

@ChrisS stay away from small rural towns there.

@pauska It's in dynamic power savings mode

tombull89

With that number of cores it would be pretty good at rendering.

Chris S

I've been a few times... I've got the basics down.

pauska

@ewwhite yeah but the psu's have their own option.. can't remember exactly where right now

ewwhite

@ChrisS remember, we're trying to solve an armed robbery caught on video with this client...

Dan

@MDMarra August 20 for a week or so

pauska

14:01

high effiency.. or auto.. or something

tombull89

Craigslist: Free. One Server. Collection only. From my 96-floor apartment, with lifts that are too small to take it.

ewwhite

@pauska right... HE mode... odd/even standby

Dan

@Cole For sure, projects are the only way to learn.

pauska

120+85 watts in standby.. what the hell

Cole

@Dan it's definitely helping.

ewwhite

14:02

@pauska It's not in high-efficiency mode. But again, nobody wants to co-locate one

tombull89

"Good morning, I'd like to co-locate a server please" "Certainly sir, what server is it?" "Uh...DL580 G7" click

Dan

@Cole I'm at the point with C# where I really need to start learning more about architecting things properly.

Cole

@Dan well, I'm no programmer haha. But, I've found that I really enjoy learning scripting.

SmallClanger

@ewwhite You could save them $hundreds/year just by taking three of the CPUs out and it likely wouldn't affect performance one bit.

Cole

Syntaxes give me a boner.

jscott

14:05

@Cole Do yourself a favor, get Mercurial, Git, or anything really, and start using it. If you work in the use of SCM as you learn scripting, you'll be much better off.

ewwhite

@SmallClanger you are right... the load averages .8

SmallClanger

With the added bonus that it shows the customer just how much they've been stiffed by the supplier :)

Cole

@jscott googling, as I really don't know much about Git.

I've heard of it, but I'm no programmer.

jscott

Source control is an excellent practice. And you get to see how your scripts have changed over time.

Cole

@jscott hmm okay, I'll try it out.

Question, I use PowerGUI on Windows for PowerShell - I'm assuming there isn't anything like that for Linux eh?

jscott

14:08

I prefer Mercurial, but that's just because it was the first thing I got working across Linux/Windows/OSX. I believe Git is the "cool" one right now -- e.g. github.com.

@Cole emacs?

Cole

-_-

I hate emacs

pauska

anyone else here upgraded to office 2013? I find it hard to spot new/unread mails.. everything is so fucking high contrast..

Cole

@pauska YOU'RE HIGH CONTRAST.

I'm really not sure what that means.

pauska

@Cole the Nuevo (Metro) style

everything is white, black or gray

Cole

@pauska ew

SmallClanger

14:12

@pauska Is Nuevo their new official name for Metro?

jscott

Metro was "always" a code-name only. :)

SmallClanger

@jscott Code for "We didn't do a thorough trademark check and we're having to backpedal suddenly?"

tombull89

I thought it was TIFKAM (The Interface Formerly Known As Metro)

jscott

@SmallClanger Yes, that sounds like the correct definition of "code name".

Cole

YES

I'm getting laid tonight

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

pauska

14:18

@SmallClanger no.. I'm not sure why I thought it was.. hmm

MDMarra

@Dan If you make it down to Philadelphia, let me know

Cole

@jscott setting up github now.

SmallClanger

@pauska Sound like the sort of name MS would come up with. It's better than 'Modern', anyway.

Dan

@MDMarra I'd love to at some point, but not this one. If you happen to be in NY though let me know

ewwhite

@Dan Oh, I go to NY every so often :)

Dan

14:28

@ewwhite And you too :)

Chris S

@pauska Yes, been on Office 2013 for a couple months.

I'm not a fan of the new layout coloration, it's very difficult to tell where one "area" of the GUI starts/stops.

MDMarra

@ChrisS Everyone is taking Flat design to an unusable extreme

Chris S

I've gotten used to it... but I still don't like the way it looks.

MDMarra

google maps on iOS is a good example

ewwhite

@MDMarra what do I press? Where?

MDMarra

14:31

@ewwhite seriously

Chris S

I don't iOS, so i' haven't seen it.

MDMarra

I'd imagine it's similar on android

no delimiter between touch elements

pictures not words for certain functions

etc

pauska

everything is very flat on the android gmaps aswell, but it's easy to see where one button stops and where the next one starts

Chris S

Maps on Android is quite usable... There are lines between buttons.

pauska

or well.. "easy" - there is no borders, but you quickly understand

Chris S

14:33

MDMarra

right, if you're stationary then it's much better. but trying to use it in a car with minimal effort sucks - especially since it's not siri-integrated any more

pauska

@ChrisS uh, that is OOOOOOOOLD

it doesn't even look close these days

that image is from 2011...

Brent Pabst

not sure if you guys have preferred cabling or power peeps or not, thought I would throw this group out: Stay Online kicks ass and can do pretty much anything you might need.

pauska

thats how it looks now

Chris S

@pauska I'm running the latest version for my phone and it looks similar.

Brent Pabst

14:35

stayonline.com

pauska

@ChrisS then your phone is outdated :(

Chris S

@pauska Must be on ICS?

pauska

ICS/JB probably yeah

alltho the map app is from the store

Chris S

@pauska Yes, my phone is a couple years old as I have much better things to spend my money on than a status symbol.

pauska

just checked with a coworker, he also has the old maps

he's on 2.2 or something like that

MDMarra

14:39

On iOS

Chris S

Maybe I'm just accustomed to those symbols....

MDMarra

It's not the symbols it's that they don't look like selectable elements

no outline, etc

and those are obvious, but have you used gmail recently?

one arrow pointing left is "back" and one with a slight swoop is "reply"

I get them mixed up all the time

Dan

@MDMarra Oh, yes, this.

MDMarra

I suppose I'm really OK with flat design, it's more "icons replacing words" that I'm not

jscott

@MDMarra There's a setting to display the button as text.

MDMarra

14:46

where

jscott

Digging...

MDMarra

i am too

jscott

MDMarra

I need this

jscott

You're talking about the button labeled "back" in the above screenshot?

tombull89

14:48

Android 2.3.4 with Google Maps 6.14.2:

MDMarra

tombull89

jscott

@MDMarra Yeah, there's a setting... See my screenie, no icons, just text.

MDMarra

yeah

jscott

I'll be damned if I can find it right this second!

MDMarra

14:49

im looking

jscott

Got it

Settings -> General -> Button Labels.

Icons or Text are the two options.

support.google.com/mail/bin/…

ewwhite

Puppet Fundamentals Course: Chicago, IL
When:  March 12 - 14

Where:
Chicago, IL 60606

Cost: $2,195 USD Early Bird Rate, $2,395 USD Standard Rate
Becoming a Puppet Professional

Worth it?

MDMarra

@jscott yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss‌sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss‌ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

jscott

Yeah, I had made that change so long ago I couldn't remember if it was a Lab feature or not.

Stack Exchange

Standalone Sysadmin: Sysadmins: Do you do pro bono work?

posted on January 14, 2013 by Matt Simmons

As I learn more about the standards by which other professionals manage their practice, I realize how little that resembles what I do, and it's eye opening in a lot of ways. For instance, Model Rule 6.1 of the American Bar Association states: Every lawyer has a professional responsibility to provide legal services to those [...]

Scott Pack

14:57

Simmons said "bono" which is awful close to "boner".

Cole

lol boner

I just want to filter this based on which group a user is it. I'm currently flipping off my monitors

HopelessN00b

I wonder if not savagely beating people who ask me to fix their shit in my off-hours counts as pro-bono work.

For that matter, being FTE now, I do a lot of work I don't get paid for. I think that should count.

Cold T

i think every one here does more hours then they get paid for unfortunately

Iain

@pauska I am - if you track down the question, the best answer turns it into a better question because it shows how to do it with what is already available. I've recently got hold of the 'rules' for Q&A that can fit on the /about page too. I'll pop something on meta later

Cole

@ColdT nature of IT.

Cold T

15:09

@Cole indeed

HopelessN00b

@Cole Bull. I mean, that's the bullshit everyone says, but it's bullshit. No more the nature of IT than any other profession that actually gets paid for after-hours work.

Cole

@HopelessN00b I think IT is the only one we hear about commonly.

Iain

Given the answe, should this be closed TL serverfault.com/questions/459351/… ?

Cold T

the real problem is with end-users, anything that remotely passes electricity through, they come and blame IT for them to fix up

HopelessN00b

@Cole Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's in the nature of IT that we should get paid for only part of what we do. Try that with any other similar trade and see how far you get.

Cole

15:12

@HopelessN00b Oh I agree, believe me.

HopelessN00b

@ColdT Bean-counters too, who are the driving force behind IT being an overtime-exempt profession in most places.

jscott

@Iain If the OP will accept their self-answer I don't see the reason to close.

Dan

I don't work for free.

Iain

@jscott fair enough

Dan

@jscott I disagree, it's never going to help anyone

Iain

15:14

@Dan fair enough :)

HopelessN00b

@Dan Agreed, but I wouldn't go out of my way to close it either.

jscott

It only takes five votes to close. My opinion won't change that :)

SmallClanger

@HopelessN00b Extend that out to anything of a vaguely practical nature. Needs a screwdriver? IT. Plumbing? The internet is just pipes, too, right? IT.

HopelessN00b

@SmallClanger Right, but plumbers and mechanics and the like get paid for their OT.

IT doesn't, because... bullshit.

Dan

@HopelessN00b To be fair, I expect both those occupations would moan too

Everyone does extra and works for free in some respects, you just have to be wary that you're not being fucked

HopelessN00b

15:16

@Dan I don't think as pervasive, or... as excessive anywhere other than IT, though.

SmallClanger

Par for the course, here. Most of the people in $EMPLOYER work longer than contracted hours and all are salaried employees.

Cold T

a bit of work here and there is fine, but several hours is b/s and completely unfair

Shaman

Hi

Cold T

IT never seen as 'billers' and that is where they don't like to spend

Shaman

Does anyone has experience in making a bootable winxp stick legal way?

Dan

15:17

@HopelessN00b I dunno - look at medicine!

@Shaman There's no illegal way if you own the license

HopelessN00b

@SmallClanger Not really sympathetic that argument at the moment, having lost my Saturday night to unpaid IT-crap. Never seen the HR or accounting departments called in the middle of the night. >:/

@Dan What of medicine? The ER bills... they don't work for free.

MDMarra

@Cole filter what

Dan

@HopelessN00b DUnno about over there, but our Doctors work insane hours in hospitals

@HopelessN00b How's it unpaid? Why would you work for free?

HopelessN00b

@Dan Hazard of socialized medicine.

Cole

@MDMarra remember that script to pull all the info from the telephone tab in AD? I want to filter based on group.

Dan

15:19

@HopelessN00b I've always been of the understanding it's not reallt different there

HopelessN00b

@Dan They converted me to FTE, so no pay.

Cold T

@HopelessN00b if you won't be losing your job over it, then i'd request that to be paid as it's out of hours and off-duty and not binded by your employment contract (unless it is?)

SmallClanger

Admin is admin, though. Your never really get emergency admin. But any job with a vaguely technical bent will get monstrous hours at some point.

Dan

@HopelessN00b Presumably it's yoru contract then, so you are being paid in essence?

HopelessN00b

@Dan Might not be. But I know our doctors and nurses get paid (and at a shift-differential rate) for their overnight shifts and the like.

Cold T

15:21

as an FTE, you get no pay for O/T @HopelessN00b?

wow that's got to suck

HopelessN00b

@ColdT Correct. Generally considered an "overtime exempt" profession over here, so "thanks for working through the weekend, see you on Monday" kind-of-thing.

Cold T

that's utter b/s, they can't expect you to work 7 days a week flat out

Dan

I couldn't be doing with a job like that

Cole

@MDMarra can't figure out how to get it to filter on just one group (All Employees)

Dan

If you want 24 / 7 cover from me, then I'm going to need some serious reimbursement

Chris S

15:26

@ColdT It's pretty common that there's no overtime pay for System Administration in the US... But most employers are pretty reasonable with their demands.

I'm on-call 24/7, but it's been a couple years since I got a call in the middle of the night.

pauska

I don't know any sysadmins in norway with overtime pay either..

Chris S

Calls on the weekends/evening are pretty rare too, and can usually be resolved with a few minutes of troubleshooting.

HopelessN00b

@ColdT Most don't, but I've had a few jobs like that (which I left), and even at decent places, it's like anything else... always pushing the envelope trying to get a little more for free.

ewwhite

@ChrisS lucky

pauska

Only ones I know who get it are goverment/military employees

MDMarra

15:28

@Cole What is it? logon script?

Cole

@MDMarra no, just a PowerShell script that dumps the info to a csv.

Chris S

@ewwhite That's mostly an artifact of using good equipment, careful software deployment, and setting reasonable expectations.

MDMarra

@Cole do get-adgroup or something

with an if or switch block

SmallClanger

My out-of-hours work tends to be the (thankfully rare) emergencies or scheduled maintenance of critical systems, for which I'll usually get weekday time back.

Cole

@MDMarra tried that, I don't get an error - just no info is dumped

MDMarra

15:29

Or you can only retrieve users that are members of the group you want

SmallClanger

I don't know any UK IT people who get overtime pay as such, but recognition, bonuses and TOIL tend to make up for it. No job can justify overtime just being made part of the standard working week. Paid or not, it's unhealthy.

MDMarra

something like get-aduser -properties memberof | where ($_.memberof -eq whatever) - that syntax is probably wrong but you get the point

Cold T

@HopelessN00b that's interesting if most US companies not paying O/T for a large number of excess hours

I've got paid in the last 3 companies i've worked for for OT

MDMarra

@ColdT If you're an "exempt" employee - which most of us are, no overtime

Cold T

2 private sector, and presently the public sector (education)

Basil

15:31

Well this is fun. Hey @cole- remember when I said how awesome HDS is? Well you can't move a volume from pool to pool while it's replicated. So I take it all back. Those rat bastards.

SmallClanger

Is there a specific US law that people have to be exempted from to not be paid OT?

Dan

@MDMarra What's this exempt stuff?

Cole

@MDMarra hrm ok

Dan

I'm never working in the US

MDMarra

@Dan basically if you're salary and in a management/administrative position there's no legal mandate for overtime

Cold T

15:32

@dan add me to that list!

MDMarra

Only certain jobs have gov't mandated overtime

Michael Hampton

In the US, certain classes of employees may be exempted from the overtime laws, typically salaried managers and other high-level employees.

Dan

@MDMarra So how is it managed how many hours they can force you to work?

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton And IT, because... well, no good reason, but no one wants to pay overtime rates for us. >:/

MDMarra

@Dan No limit AFAIK

Cold T

15:33

that is pretty unfair, majority of IT positions requires outside of standard business hours

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Oh, some companies don't.

Dan

@MDMarra What?

HopelessN00b

@Dan Most of us are at will [employment]. Push too hard, you get told to fuck off and restaff the position.

MDMarra

yeah, which is why it's important to get in at a good place and not a shit hole

Dan

@HopelessN00b Yeah, I've heard of at-will. Frankly, that's a disgrace

MDMarra

15:34

Plenty of places have their own policy, like if you work OT, you get comp time or whatever

It's not like it's all slave labor here

Dan

@MDMarra No, I appreciate that, I just find it shocking the legal system doesn't protect you

MDMarra

yeah not really

HopelessN00b

@Dan I actually prefer the at-will thing, to the European way of doing it.

MDMarra

the whole industrial revolution workers union stuff really sort of fucked stuff up

ewwhite

@ChrisS Someone blamed me for the HP server not liking the cheapo KVM.

MDMarra

15:34

if you're not a union member you get less guaranteed stuff

Dan

@HopelessN00b What do you mean "European" way? I can only talk about UK, but the essence is that if you decide to employ someone you can't just sack them because you fancy it

HopelessN00b

Fuck the courts and the legal system; it's all a lying contest and a game of outspending the other guy's lawyers.

Cold T

@MDMarra so what happens you need to work 2 weekends in a row, out of the typical business hours... they can't expect you to work 2 weeks solid flat out? isn't there a health an safety issue at play here?

HopelessN00b

@Dan Right, that way. I prefer the at-will arrangement. You can fire me at any time for any reason, and I can tell you kiss my ass and leave at any time, for any reason too.

MDMarra

@ColdT Different states have different laws

Michael Hampton

15:36

@Dan So at-will means you can sack someone because you don't like their hair color. But then they get unemployment compensation, unless you sacked them for a real cause.

Dan

@HopelessN00b We can do the latter, they can't do the former :)

MDMarra

Some set a maximum amount of consecutive days others dont

Dan

@MichaelHampton Define compensation?

Michael Hampton

The other side of at-will is that I can quit without notice if I want to.

HopelessN00b

@Dan Seems unfair to me. Also explains why it's so much harder to get a job over there than over here.

MDMarra

15:37

@Dan ~70% of pay

Dan

@MDMarra Is that a legal thing?

Chris S

@ewwhite That was an odd problem.... I've never seen a KVM hang a server.

MDMarra

@Dan yep, but again varies from state to state in implementation

Chris S

But I also don't even use a KVM anymore... that's what iLO is for.

SmallClanger

@ewwhite Did you confirm it was the KVM in the end?

Cold T

15:37

@MichaelHampton you can't do that here in the UK... that would end up in employment tribunal

Michael Hampton

@Dan And the company has to pay unemployment insurance, and their premiums go up if they fire someone for something stupid.

ewwhite

@SmallClanger yes, it was the KVM... maybe even a bad keyboard.

Dan

@MichaelHampton Okay, this side of stuff I wasn't aware of

@MichaelHampton Yeah without notice is pushing it, but notice is generally 2 - 4 weeks unless you're a CEO or something

MDMarra

The thing that people in Europe have a difficult time grasping is how different laws are from state to state. Things that are illegal in one aren't in another. It's really like we're a slightly more cohesive EU

HopelessN00b

@Dan Yeah, but, and this is why I prefer it, UI is optional. If I don't want to pay for it, I don't have to use it.

Dan

15:38

But to be honest, there's very little comeback if you quit without notice

MDMarra

Each state has pretty wide lattitude in self-governing

Dan

@HopelessN00b I'm confused, I thought the employer paid the insurance?

You guys confuse me

@MDMarra Yeah, I'm staring to see this

To be honest, from my perspective it seems our laws are balanced generally in favour of the employee. Over there, it's the other way round

SmallClanger

@ewwhite Freaky. So naturally, it's your fault for not anticipating that your chosen servers couldn't cope with this service-critical keyboard?

MDMarra

@Dan I can go to colorado or washington and smoke weed and it's legal. I can go to massachusetts and smoke weed and get a ticket - no criminal charges (like speeding or parking violations). If I smoke it in my current state of pennsylvania, I'll get arrested and face probation/jail time

ewwhite

@SmallClanger who knows... maybe the supermicro servers would fail to boot 1/8 the time, too.

Michael Hampton

15:41

Well, it's more of a tax...

Chris S

@MichaelHampton Their SUTA goes up anytime one of their ex-employees gets unemployement... Doesn't matter why.

Michael Hampton

Unemployment benefits

Unemployment benefits (also, depending on the jurisdiction, called unemployment insurance or unemployment compensation) are payments made by the state or other authorized bodies to unemployed people. Benefits may be based on a compulsory para-governmental insurance system. Depending on the jurisdiction and the status of the person, those sums may be small, covering only basic needs, or may compensate the lost time proportionally to the previous earned salary. They often are part of a larger social security scheme. Unemployment benefits are generally given only to those registering as unem...

@Dan Though most of the time, unemployment is used for people who have been laid off (made redundant).

Chris S

@Dan Well, it depends on the situation too.... Our laws tend to be straight balanced. Neither the employer nor the employee has significantly more legal protection from the other.

As far as our Unemployment system works you can part ways with an employer one of three way: 1. Fired because you did something specific they didn't like 2. Laid-off, nothing you did "wrong" 3. Quit. You can get unemployment benefits under #2 and #3, but you're required to do a number of things including looking for a new job "actively".

Michael Hampton

Oh, poor guy had a second disk fail in his RAID 5 rebuild at 99.9%

HopelessN00b

@Dan Oh, nevermind me, I'm thinking about disability insurance. (Which I opt out of.) I freaking hate UI, because I'm not allowed to opt out. If I get sacked, I can't use it, being on a work visa, so I get to pay in, but can't possibly get anything out of it. Yippie.

ewwhite

15:45

@MichaelHampton Where?

Michael Hampton

1

Q: mdadm stalls rebuilding a RAID5 array at 99.9%

I recently installed three new disks in my QNAP TS-412 NAS. These three new disks should be combined with the already present disk into a 4 disk RAID5 array, so I started the migration process. After multiple tries (each taking about 24 hours) the migration seemed to work but resulted in a non...

Cole

Fedora 17 is really nice (Xfce) but there's a lot of shit missing

ewwhite

@MichaelHampton Oh, I don't touch software RAID.

Michael Hampton

@Cole It's xfce, of course a lot of shit is missing

Chris S

Also, labor unions muck up the whole process as the union may be in charge of providing laborers (or not), and maybe restrict if/how an employer ceases employment of workers (or not), what benefits the employe receives for labor, for unemployment, striking, etc (or not)..... So the whole things gets MUCH more complicated.

Cole

15:47

@MichaelHampton well more than usual

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Heh, funny. Since my Adaptec card dropping that encrypted RAID array, I'm warming to the idea of mdadm. Starting to loathe hardware RAID.

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Well I think the answer is still "you're fucked"

Chris S

Also, some states have Right To Work, where you don't have to join the labor union if you want to work for a company.

Cole

@MichaelHampton I love how smooth xfce is - I just can't get into gnome

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b Hardware RAID. LSI or HP. Nothing else has worked well for me.

Chris S

15:48

@MDMarra You mean that the employee's "pay" is roughly 70% of their total cost to the business?

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton Is there really no way to say "screw those last 300 bytes of data, let me get at the rest of it?"

jscott

Is xfce the default? I've not used it in maybe 10 years. Do you still have to compile new themes from source?

Cole

@jscott no, my preference

Michael Hampton

@jscott GNOME 3 is the default for Fedora.

ewwhite

Oh wait, maybe I shouldn't recommend LSI :)

HopelessN00b

15:49

@ChrisS No, pretty sure what the ex-employee gets on UI is ~70% of their salary, no benefits or the like are included in the count.

Cole

Going to try out KDE

HopelessN00b

(Another reason UI sucks.)

Chris S

@HopelessN00b OIC

HopelessN00b

Like I said, pretty sure - my dad had to go on it a few years back, and that's what his experience was. No personal experience or research done into it, since I can't benefit from that particular tax.

Cole

Just signed up for the company softball league

HopelessN00b

15:54

@Cole So you can hit a line drive into your co-workers' heads?

Cole

@HopelessN00b pretty much

Dan

You two are far too angry!

Cole

I played softball when I was a girl. I had college scouts at my games in high school

I was very good, but I was a douchey kid and was like FUCK THIS SHIT. I stopped playing because I hated high school.

HopelessN00b

@Dan Yeah, I get pissy when I have to lose a buzz and miss out on getting laid because of someone else's stupidity. Well, pissy-er.

Cole

brb

Dan

15:56

@HopelessN00b You're always pissy :P

HopelessN00b

@Dan Not always. Just when I'm awake.

Dan

@HopelessN00b Haha

HopelessN00b

Well, awake and sober. I'm a pretty happy drunk.

ewwhite

@mdmarra HALP!

Dan

@ewwhite Well, you've broken that

Cold T

15:59

lol

tombull89

Woah. Time to delete some pr0n.

HopelessN00b

Yeah, I think you might need more "storage" to complete that operation.

Transcript for