The Comms Room

Jeff Ferland

00:01

@Adrian You need to stream the audio :)

@HopelessN00b Deleted question?

Joel E Salas

@JeffFerland New devops startup: stream.ly

ewwhite

00:24

@Adrian job interview.

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite How heavy is that 370 G5?

Looks like a beast.

Rawr.

Adrian

@ewwhite Yeah, I pretty much shut it down though. Pretty much a 'Be our only IT guy and live at the office' kind of job. When I figured out that auto-scaling AWS instances was going to be 75% of my job, I pretty much started giving him the answers that would kill the interview.

Joel E Salas

@Adrian That's aggressive. What do you want to end up doing?

Adrian

@JoelESalas I've started to realize that I want to be doing system and network engineering kind of stuff. 75% AWS auto-scaling with Cobbler and 15% Desktop support doesn't leave much room for what I want to do.

WesleyDavid

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who cares about getting a task done with craftsmanship and finesse.

Mark Henderson

00:35

@WesleyDavid I used to do that. Then I started getting you know, real work for real clients who don't give two shits how neat a solution is, just how long it takes and how much it costs

Adrian

@WesleyDavid Yeah, that doesn't seem to be a big part of DevOps.

Zoredache

@HopelessN00b I wouldn't do that too often. that starts to seem like spamming to me...

ewwhite

00:52

what would you use for antivirus for a linux server that accepts web form/uploads?

@WesleyDavid very heavy...

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Like, less than 100 pounds at least?

@ewwhite ClamAV

ewwhite

@WesleyDavid 105lb

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson I know, that's the trouble. People be all "JUST PUT .HTACCESS PASSWORDS ON IT AND IT'S SECURE!!"

@ewwhite Shit!

@ewwhite Make sure you tell FedEx 3-DAY-GROUND. Whatever is cheapest. =)

If you overnight that I could just save the money and buy a stocked C7000

ewwhite

01:10

:)

mmmshuddup

hello

is this a place for Live Support?

Mark Henderson

@mmmshuddup Meow

mmmshuddup

haha

I was told this was a place for live support. can I have some of that? lol

@MarkHenderson hello!

Chris S

@HopelessN00b You can only "At" people who are the OP, Edited, or Commented.

Mark Henderson

Sorry but we only do live support if you do it in cat

Joel E Salas

01:13

@MarkHenderson maow

mmmshuddup

:D

Mark Henderson

@JoelESalas Prrrr

mmmshuddup

lol

what about whale cat?

Chris S

@mmmshuddup Yes, but I'm afraid that was your one question for the day, please come back tomorrow.

mmmshuddup

crap haha

Mark Henderson

01:14

@mmmshuddup Everyone sometime @'s you it looks like they're telling us to all shut up

mmmshuddup

I'll share with you what I've been spamming to my friends today because it's awesome

Mark Henderson

This is... troubling

mmmshuddup

Mark Henderson

@mmmshuddup Pft thats just my cousin Sven. And that's cat-dolphin, not cat-whale

Chris S

Seen in before... in this chat even.

mmmshuddup

01:15

@MarkHenderson lol that's awesome

ahh bummer

Mark Henderson

No wait that could be Steve, he's a cat-whale

Sven and Steve kinda look the same

Zoredache

@MarkHenderson that doesn't look like a dolphin to me, that is looks like a killer whale.

Mark Henderson

(but don't tell them that, they get pretty pissed off)

@Zoredache Yeah my bad, it wasn't sven at at all, it's steve

mmmshuddup

it's weird the shape seems dolphin like but the size doesn't. it's hard to tell by the photo though

Chris S

In case you guys wonder what we do in our Moderator Chat:

in The DMZ, yesterday, by sysadmin1138

in The DMZ, yesterday, by voretaq7

Banhammer

[[Image:3D-printed-ban-hammer.jpg|thumb|The banhammer was actualized into a physical object in 2009.]] The term banhammer began as a satirical term for the power wielded by an administrator to ban or block users of internet forums, wikis, online games, or other internet media. The term is often used as a nickname for the actual anti-cheating software in video games that performs the banning action. Overview Punishment is usually a form of ban from the service, either by deleting the guilty party's account or suspending it for a period of time. In extreme cases, the person's IP address ma...

in The DMZ, yesterday, by Chris S

Zoredache

01:17

@mmmshuddup I live on an island. During the summer we have lots of tourists coming to watch the wales.

Chris S

in The DMZ, yesterday, by voretaq7

mmmshuddup

everyone is telling me to shuddup haha

@Zoredache nice is it like the island on Lost?

whoa is this a pure mod chat?? :O wait no I just scrolled up and saw a bunch of non mods

Zoredache

No. is a boring island on the west coast. 48.5075, -122.635

mmmshuddup

guys. I know many of the *nix gurus like yourselves despise OS X, but I was hoping one of you guys could take a glance at my question anyway since it's getting little to no attention over at "Ask Different"

1

Q: Recover overwritten partition table (external drive)

I stupidly ran a command to make my external hdd bootable knowing that it was risky considering the command itself did not allow me to specify a partition to which to write. This command: $ sudo dd if=/Users/MyUser/Downloads/Fedora-17-x86_64-Live-Desktop.iso \ > of=/dev/disk1 bs=1m For whi...

I'm kinda desperate on this one..

Zoredache

What is the likelihood of recovering the files I had stored in my Backup partition? My guess is ~0-5%.

mmmshuddup

01:21

:O

:(

at this point I think the only mistake I made was putting of=/dev/disk1 instead of of=/dev/disk1s2.. can anyone verify that?

Zoredache

You might be able to get some files out of it using something like test disk. But the first ~700MB of the disk is gone.

mmmshuddup

ugh

Chris S

@mmmshuddup If you had printed the partition tables with their size in bytes it would be "fun" but possible... You're way down next to 0% as is.

mmmshuddup

what if I sent my drive to like one of those companies that charges like a 1000 dolalrs?

Chris S

Oh, it's GPT, it should have a recovery table.

And the Backup partition is in the middle of the disk.

mmmshuddup

01:23

correct

Chris S

The linux partition is hosed, you'd be lucky to get anything off that.

mmmshuddup

I stupidly thought it would automagically write to the first partition simply by suppluing /dev/disk1. it was a noob mistake I'm aware

Chris S

Do you have gpart on that box?

Zoredache

Before you do ANYTHING ELSE YOU SHOULD MAKE ANOTHER BACKUP of what you HAVE!

Mark Henderson

@mmmshuddup fwiw I'd say about 50% of the people here use OSX as their personal machines on a daily basis

Chris S

01:25

Get gpart and just run gpart recover /dev/disk1 No problemo.

mmmshuddup

yeah it's a little too late for that. I just brought it to a certified apple technician who swore to me he would only attempt to read from the drive..

I guess if that in itself was a bad idea then I'm screwed lol :S

Zoredache

BTW, I don't see how copying the fedora iso onto /dev/disk1s2 would have given you a bootable setup.

mmmshuddup

@MarkHenderson oh nice :)

@Zoredache ugh

Chris S

As long as you don't care about the linux partition you'll be fine... Just get that gpart command going before toying with anything else. Of course I disclaim all responsibility if something goes wonky. =]

mmmshuddup

well I wasn't done

Zoredache

01:26

What were you going to do after copying the iso?

mmmshuddup

@ChrisS lol nice

@Zoredache I was going to follow more instructions ;) I was only half way through the article I found.. Google let me down today. big time

Chris S

@mmmshuddup Well, to be fair I don't know exactly what you've tried already, or anyone else, and I've given very good directions to people before and they managed to screw it up, so... I have to start with "it's not my fault" else people get the impression that anything can be fixed.

mmmshuddup

I thought with my intermediate [at best] bash skills I could handle this seemingly simple task

@ChrisS Yeah I totally respect that. and get it

Chris S

But GPT does have a provision for this exact situation, so you could be saved by that if the secondary partition table hasn't been hosed by "recovery efforts", same with the Backup partition.

mmmshuddup

as soon as I finished entering my password for sudo I kinda had this nervous "OH CRAP" moment as I waited for the iso to finish copying. oh how the sweat was pouring

@ChrisS uh oh. and just trying to read will do damage? because it's literally/physically out of my hands right now

Chris S

01:30

I've been there before, realizing "oh crap" after hitting enter. It's usually when I see "Remote connection terminated" too.

@mmmshuddup Eh, most systems don't "just read" is the problem you'll run into.

mmmshuddup

fark

if this guy effs it up I'm gonna kill myself

lol

Chris S

Mounting any modern file system definitely changes things, unless you explicitly specify "read only" when mounted.

mmmshuddup

@ChrisS Yeah I actually _un_mounted just before doing this using $ diskutil unmountDisk /dev/disk1

I'm gonna call that guy and see if he's still there

MikeyB

@mmmshuddup You're fine, as long as you can figure out where the partitions start. I feel your pain - I did something similar a while ago. Don't dd at 2am.

Chris S

I don't recognize half the mac commands... I live in FreeBSD world, the one Apple stole half their system from. So half the commands are the same, and the other half are different (usually in nuanced ways)

mmmshuddup

01:34

@ChrisS true that. I usually live on centOS myself, it's personally my favorite distro

MDMarra

Check your inbox, @ewwhite

Chris S

The other half of their system came from Mach (CMU's kernel project). =]

mmmshuddup

@MikeyB ha. it's a pretty crappy feeling huh?

Chris S

Something I'd like to study, but definitely don't have the time right now...

mmmshuddup

@ChrisS Yeah I never totally understood what Mach was about.. then again I didn't do much readin gon it either

voretaq7

01:35

oy

mmmshuddup

I just know OSX was born from NeXtSTEP or whatever it was called

MDMarra

Isn't mach the kernel for darwin

mmmshuddup

which was loosely based on freeBSD

voretaq7

@ChrisS The core unix stuff is still BSD (5-6ish). The funky shit is all Apple/Darwin

(and the kernel fucking SUCKS)

MDMarra

heh

mmmshuddup

01:36

yeah I keep hearing hte kernel sucks but why?

is it buggy or slow or what?

voretaq7

@mmmshuddup Because the I/O subsystem was implemented by a cracked out ferret

Joel E Salas

@mmmshuddup Terrible I/O scheduler

mmmshuddup

ahhh

@voretaq7 LOL cracked out ferret

voretaq7

Put any kind of heavy swap or disk activity on an OS X box and it literally STOPS

mmmshuddup

yikes. how do you define heavy then because this has never happened to me!

voretaq7

01:37

the I/O scheduling algorithm is basically "OH OH MY GOD SOMEONE NEEDS THE DISK! EVERYONE STOP -- just STOP OK? THIS GUY NEEDS THE DISK!"

2

mmmshuddup

@voretaq7 LMAO that was classic

MikeyB

@mmmshuddup Hmmm… anyone know if you zero out the first part of a GPT disk if it'll automatically use the backup copy at the end of the disk? I wonder…

voretaq7

@mmmshuddup I define heavy as any VM subsystem pressure (where swapping actually has to move data to/from disk), or doing something as egregious as dd if=/dev/zero of=/somefile bs=1M count=10000

mmmshuddup

oh wow I just noticed some people answering on the actual question. If any of those people are here bear with me I will read your answers shortly here after I smoke

voretaq7

@MikeyB dunno, never tried :)

mmmshuddup

01:40

@voretaq7 gotcha. yeah I guess I've never needed something that intense so yeah. but in a server environment I suppose I can see how people would end up disliking and complaining about the kernel

voretaq7

@mmmshuddup if you create fixed-size disks in VMWare or VirtualBox that's basically what it does :-D

mmmshuddup

@voretaq7 ha. I always used the dynamic option but I am curently done with VirtualBox :) we're not friends anymore

voretaq7

@mmmshuddup oracle-hater

mmmshuddup

:D

I don't remember what they called tehir dynamically-resizing disk

I also dislike OpenOffice, but they're not with Oracle anymore so that helps :) fwiw I [kinda] love Java

@voretaq7 You know what's crazy. this is first time in any SE chat that I've seen so many gurus on at the same time. hard to keep up with you guys :P. ok brb I"m gonna have that smoke now quick

voretaq7

0

Q: Yum doesn't install latest version of Git on Centos6

When I go to Gits download section it mentions that latest version is 1.8 and I can install it by yum install git on Fedora. I'm running CentOS6 so that command should also work for me, but yum tells me: Setting up Install Process Package git-1.7.1-2.el6_0.1.x86_64 already installed and latest v...

centos installation git yum

Mark Henderson

01:44

@mmmshuddup Its cos we're all here organising our next circle jerk

voretaq7

someone go explain to this person why they're about as dense as the shielding they use for nuclear reactors.

Chris S

@voretaq7 @mmmshuddup The Mach kernel is interesting more than anything. Mach is a true MicroKernel design, essentially it's just a core traffic cop, all resources are managed by processes outside the kernel. OSX has a hybrid kernel based on Mach.

Mark Henderson

@voretaq7 Sounds like you already did

Joel E Salas

Wow, devops.jpg

Chris S

Part of what makes Mach interesting is that 1. You can replace core parts of the "OS" by running a different management process. Want to manage memory different, just run a different manager. 2. Because the "traffic cop" doesn't have to deal with the actual hardware, it's doesn't especially care what hardware it's running on; specifically cases where you've got clusters of hardware with high speed interlinks, you could have one OS spanning multiple pieces of hardware (potentially dynamically too

mmmshuddup

01:47

@MarkHenderson LOL wff.. I'm back by the way. I smoke quickly, it's a habit I picked up from work

@ChrisS wow how do you know so much about that? are some of you guys programmers too?

voretaq7

@MarkHenderson he's still being a whiny bitch in comments

MDMarra

@mmmshuddup He's just a really big nerd

mmmshuddup

:D

voretaq7

@ChrisS I wonder how much of the I/O subsystem's suck is really Mach's core locking

Chris S

@mmmshuddup I was a programmer in a previous life.

mmmshuddup

01:50

@ChrisS that sounds quite similar to the loose-coupling idea in programming. leaving certain components being solely responsible for managing themselves basically

Chris S

@voretaq7 Mach's core is incredibly fast; what's slow is that it works by message passing, and the security checking on messages is incredibly slow.

voretaq7

@ChrisS mach's core doesn't DO anything

mmmshuddup

@ChrisS hmm. and the message passing is what came from Apple?

Chris S

Mach would take over the world if someone figured out how to do message security fast.

@voretaq7 Well, that too.

voretaq7

I can write a fast Hello World program too - but that's because I'm not a GNUist

Chris S

01:51

@mmmshuddup No, that's inherent in Mach and any MicroKernel design.

mmmshuddup

@ChrisS ahhh gotcha

Chris S

Passing messages in Mach takes less than a dozen clock cycles, fast my any measure. Security checks takes ~50 cycles minimum, and that's with certain assumptions.

mmmshuddup

@voretaq7 I started out as a C programmer but I haven't written any C code in ~7 years. I somehow ended up in web dev but I like it

crap guys I have to eat dinner. I will be back in like 20 - 30 minutes.

Joel E Salas

@mmmshuddup Is it because there's no such bullshit as malloc errors

Chris S

@mmmshuddup Since the "kernel" doesn't do anything, the processes that manage the various hardware of the system has to pass messages to eachother; and anytime a user process wants something that's another message round trip. All messages pass through the MicroKernel (which is it's primary purpose).

mmmshuddup

01:54

I am enjoying this interesting conversation though so I'll be back :)

Chris S

What's wrong with malloc errors?

I hate when I do something stupid with a pointer and end up off in the grass.

voretaq7

@ChrisS hush up andEADBEEFDEADBEEFDEADBEEF

Chris S

Or better yet if you forget to pass an argument to a function and C thinks you mean to pass NULL, so the function reads from memory offset 0 instead of throwing an error.

voretaq7

@ChrisS "When handed a pointer and uncertain of what to do, execute it."

Chris S

@voretaq7 Words to live by

Ugh, I need a new soldering iron.... And they're expensive

voretaq7

01:56

@ChrisS amazon.com/gp/product/B000I3YTEM/…

those are generally adequate

Chris S

Looks like a knock off of Hakko

I'll probable end up ordering this:

amazon.com/Hakko-Soldering-Station-FX-888-65W/dp/B004M3U0VU

voretaq7

@ChrisS more like a Weller knock-off, I like the digital controls though

Chris S

Meh, crank it to high and call it good.

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