The Comms Room

voretaq7

15:01

@ChrisS sure it does

it's messy, but with a sufficient pressure differential even the bones will shatter :-)

@ChrisS (what we learn from that whale video is "You need to use enough explosive material")

Chris S

@voretaq7 We learned to put all the explosives on the beach side so the whale goes out to sea instead of straight up.

voretaq7

@ChrisS that is less of a spectacle.

Michael Hampton

Been a while since I saw that video.

HopelessN00b

15:24

@MikeyB Wrong answer. Correct answer is: "Because you triggered an error condition. Now that you've used up your one question for today, please come back tomorrow if you need any further enlightenment."

Oh, that's depressing...

Got a list of employees that restored back in a SQL database, so they can get paid, and one of them's a warehouse worker who was hired before I was born. *shudder* >30 years of moving boxes around a warehouse? If that's not an argument for legalizing suicide, I don't know what is.

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b At least he's not a user.

HopelessN00b

"She," and no proof of that. Helpdesk does get a lot of "halp, halp, teh LXE scannor is broken" tickets. :/

Michael Hampton

Wow, 205 reputation already. I should spend more daylight hours here. Unfortunately my office window faces due east, making mornings especially painful.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b LIAR - Wimmins don't work in warehouses! It's like World of Warcraft all up in there!

ewwhite

Is @petergrace around?

voretaq7

15:33

@ewwhite follow the trail of burnt bodies

ewwhite

He's trolling the LOPSA list.

lsiunsuex

@voretaq7 it would appear i survived my flight

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 I guess, maybe "Joyce" could be a man... but I somehow have trouble seeing a man named "Joyce" as a warehouse worker too...

graham.reeds

@Chopper3 12-16 disks? Even in Raid 10 isn't that overkill?

Back briefly before I head off home.

So to recap.

Chopper3

on a call right now sorry, 20 mins

voretaq7

15:35

@lsiunsuex Including the nudie-scanner expereince?

@lsiunsuex didjya get a freedom grope?

lsiunsuex

no groping :( i may have enjoyed that

the zanax helped a lot - i actually got out of my seat to go pee - and i even looked out the window too!

ewwhite

@graham.reeds No, it's not overkill.

Chloe

@lsiunsuex Do you not enjoy flying?

ewwhite

If the capacity isn't needed, you could also consider SSD.

lsiunsuex

@Chloe terrified

Chloe

15:38

@lsiunsuex Ah, rough then. I love flying

voretaq7

@lsiunsuex It's never a hot TSA monkey. Always the ones that look like monkeys. with mange. and banana matted in their fur.

...think some former presidents but dumber

Michael Hampton

Flying is going to suck once they start allowing mobile phones to be used in flight.

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Say, what's the failure rate on SSDs? Would you even need RAID for redundancy on those? Doesn't seem like they'd "wear out" as discs with moving parts do...

lsiunsuex

my wife goes to me - there wifi on this plane, and i look at her - "dont you dare turn on the f' phone. i'm not dieing on this plane cause you need to check your QVC order"

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b Yes, I do use RAID... except for SSD's in laptops.

graham.reeds

15:39

@ewwhite Currently images are on the order of 5-10gb each. And our software will only push that up by a gig at most. x30 live VMs will take half a TB at the very most.

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b Failure rate... well, I've only had one or two fail completely, out of maybe 100 in user over the past few years.

An Intel.

Chloe

@graham.reeds Ah, but you never mentioned that earlier

@HopelessN00b everything can break!

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/… <- Technically they're not prohibited.

ewwhite

@graham.reeds Yes... I'd do 4-6 SSD's.

graham.reeds

Like I said earlier. If I can justify it then I will probably get it. If I can't justify it then I probably won't.

Michael Hampton

15:41

@voretaq7 Not by the FCC. But the FAA still has something to say about it.

graham.reeds

What is the failure rate like for server SSD?

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Hrm, interesting. Failure due to...? I assume you're not talking about write exhaustion this soon.

voretaq7

(the FCC does have something to say about it though: fcc.gov/guides/wireless-devices-airplanes)

Michael Hampton

I think it's a different rule.

ewwhite

SSD's are worth it from the performance perspective if you're running VMWare with internal disks.

lsiunsuex

15:42

@ewwhite - gucci

Michael Hampton

Or I got FCC and FAA backwards...

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton backwards. The FAA doesn't give two shits as long as the operator and PIC say it's OK. The FCC is the one that says no :)

Michael Hampton

There are too many damn government agencies to keep track of them all.

voretaq7

Interestingly you're allowed to use your electric razor on a plane

so if you wanna be a nuisance that's a perfectly legal way to do it... until the cabin crew bludgeons you with a can of soda off the service cart.

oh wait... no service cart. Shave away.

Chloe

Just realised what day it was

ewwhite

15:43

@HopelessN00b No. Not write exhaustion. Just a bad unit.

voretaq7

@Chloe meh, the jaded new yorker (me) doesn't care

Michael Hampton

My Google Calendar tells me it's "Patriot Day" in the US. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

ewwhite

@voretaq7 I could see the memorial all night... I'm right up the street.

graham.reeds

It's not Shrove Tuesday.

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton Do you actually pay any mind to those no electronic devices warnings? I sure as the hell don't. Be a little sneaky about it, and have a modicum of situational awareness, and I've yet to have anyone ask me to turn mine off.

Michael Hampton

15:47

@HopelessN00b The last time I flew anywhere, TSA at O'Hell decided to "swab" my laptop. By sheer coincidence, the backlight died immediately afterward.

HaydnWVN

personal home system ssd- would you go OCZ vertex or agility / 3 or 4, or go intel?

voretaq7

@ewwhite my town supervisor was down at the beach at dawn screaming, wailing and weeping into the sea as she has done every year since 2001

Frankly all the ZOMGZ NEVAR FORGET stuff just irritates me - it's co-opted as a politician's day to scream and yell and whip the proletariat into a furor in a mad bid to get votes

If it had been 02/11 it would have substantially less political significance, not coming within 2 months of election day and all.

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton Well, it's progress, at least. No more "security == inconvenience" from the TSA. Now it's "security == (inconvenience + physical damage)." Woohoo! Progress.

Chris S

@HaydnWVN Before HP offered reasonably priced SSDs we used only Vertex in our laptops. They work well, but have a ~20% mortality rate over 3 years (including earlier models).

lsiunsuex

although i should question - after i passed through the body scanner, they made me stand on a pad with my legs spread, hands over my head and the TSA held onto my wrist looking behind me (which i'd assume my wife was behind me)

wtf is that about?

voretaq7

15:52

@lsiunsuex Security Theater

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Approaching this wrong. Get on the side of the NEVAR FORGET!!! folks so we can get a new public holiday and accuse anyone who disagrees of being a terrorist.

voretaq7

(I honestly don't know. I haven't gotten on a commercial flight in years)

@HopelessN00b yah, that won't happen

HopelessN00b

@lsiunsuex Backscatter X-Ray machine/high tech pornograph.

voretaq7

If anyone was going to declare it a national holiday it would have been GWB

@HopelessN00b ours are a chamber up here, they make you put your hands up but it's just you in the box...

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Only because no one's making it an election issue. Put together a special interest group, make the presidential candidates think millions of votes ride on it, and see how quick that changes. Plus you'd look all patriotic and whatnot.

voretaq7

15:55

@HopelessN00b yeah, my patriotism extends about as far as "There isn't anywhere else with a lower suck quotient, so I'm staying for now"

Chris S

@lsiunsuex The TSA is there for exactly one reason, security theater. They serve no other purpose.

4

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Well, still more patriotic than I.

voretaq7

well it also provides jobs to the dangerously unqualified.
If they weren't TSA screeners they'd be DevOps.

4

HopelessN00b

@ChrisS That can't be true. The TSA hasn't even been nominated for a Tony award yet. IF it was all about the theatrical value of their work, they'd be sweeping the Tony awards. :p

Chris S

@voretaq7 I suppose I should have said "direct purpose"... They do provide amusement for terrorists; inconvenience and physical violation for travelers; employment for the dangerously unqualified; etc

voretaq7

15:57

room topic changed to The Comms Room: This is *NOT a place for 'Live Support', ask on the main site. // Insult the TSA and get a star! [effing-markdown] [markdown-chokes-orphans]*

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 Oooo! Don't forget that it provides an excellent way for former Catholic priests, drummed out for child molestation, to screen passengers!

voretaq7

@ScottPack INORITE? DON'T YOU FEEL SAFER?!?

MikeyB

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 Of course I feel safer knowing that, the next time I fly with my pre-schooler, that the person giving us a pat down got their job because "2002 was too long ago to show up in the criminal background check".

voretaq7

@MikeyB 's not a joke - I'm pretty sure I read that someone got pulled for wearing that shirt

@ScottPack that was the BEST PART OF THE STORY right there

Scott Pack

15:59

@voretaq7 That was, without question, the biggest "Are you fucking kidding me?!?" bit, yeah.

So was he actually convicted of the charges? I never got that.

voretaq7

2002 is "too long ago" to show in a background check. 6 months ago is "too recent".... so seriously do we only have like a week of data in NCIC?

HopelessN00b

@ScottPack Yeah, stop giving me ideas. I start listening to you, I'll be getting a full body cavity search every time I fly. :/

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 We also have that good ole fashion sex offender database. That shit goes back eons.

voretaq7

@ScottPack I believe he was...

it's the reason he was defrocked supposedly

lsiunsuex

i have a red "remove before flight" tag by pratt and whitney on my key chain that i remove before i fly because i think one of the TSA might miss interpret it

Scott Pack

16:01

select * from CONVICTED.PEDOPHILES where name LIKE "%${APPLICANT}%"

Is that so hard?

voretaq7

@ScottPack 2 lawsuits settled by the Diocese and apparently a third that they're not aware of yet

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 Yeah, the 3rd one sounded newly filed.

HopelessN00b

@lsiunsuex You're doing it wrong. Someone like me would buy a dozen of those keychains, just for the tag and attach them all over his pants and boxers. Take that, bitches!

Scott Pack

Although, I suppose pederast isn't quite right, since they were all girls.

voretaq7

@ScottPack they may have been settled "without an admission of guilt"

but still

Scott Pack

16:02

@voretaq7 That's the problem with settling, it can really mean so very many things.

voretaq7

@ScottPack yes, so that's the TSA's defense -- "Well he only likes little girls so we only let him scan the little boys instead"

Adrian

Mornin' Gents.

Chris S

@voretaq7 "No Contest" only works here (in MI) for misdemeanor offense, Felonies require either "Guilty or Innocent" pleas.

Adrian

@ChrisS Alford plea.

Kinda liking this Virtualize All The Things. 6 boxes converted and 5 new VMs. Total power consumption: 112 watts.

Chris S

Eh, yeah... Here's it's a plea more along the lines of "I didn't do it, but I look so guilty that I couldn't defend the charge"

voretaq7

16:08

@ChrisS "I didn't kill my wife. But if I did this is how I wouldda done it." <--- ?

HopelessN00b

@chriss not that it matters, for guilty and no contest being treated exactly the same by everyone anyway.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b it is effectively the same

"I'm not admitting guilt, I'm not claiming innocence, do what you want" -- pretty much makes meeting the burden of proof trivial

HopelessN00b

Burden of proof has been trivial for ages anyway, so that's not really an issue.

HaydnWVN

@ChrisS Thanks

HopelessN00b

Especially with the recent trend of laws that discount the need for Mens Rae.

Adrian

16:14

Need a head check. is it a bad idea to have your Domain Controller be the same name as your Domain?

HopelessN00b

@Adrian Wut? How is that possible?

Adrian

My Boss is insisting that the DC be the exact same name as the Domain. Mostly for aesthetic reasons, but I don't have a good technical reason beyond 'user confusion' to refute this.

voretaq7

@Adrian . . . prrrrrobably?

HopelessN00b

like [email protected] ?

Adrian

Well, our "DC" is technically a Samba box.

HopelessN00b

16:16

@Adrian That's a brilliant, highly scalable idea. When you have to add more domain controllers, buy more domains! Genius.

Just add a crapload of inter-domain trusts and you're golden.

2

WesleyDavid

@Adrian Your boss is that much of a micromanager? Wait, aren't you certing up so you can leave?

Adrian

@WesleyDavid Yes. To both.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b TSA supervisor interviews are down the hall.

HopelessN00b

@Adrian In that case, you should tell him that it's a great idea, and consider coming back after you leave. As a consultant. At highly inflated rates. To fix problems you already know how to solve.

HaydnWVN

I'm not aware SBS lets you do that, no idea about others as not tried, samba probably will let you... Then you encounter odd problems on your windows boxen as it 'shouldn't happen'

HopelessN00b

16:20

@voretaq7 Not a citizen, so I'm officially considered unfit to molest Merikun children until such time as I become one.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b you know you want to be subject to our Batshit-Brand Crazy Laws

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 I already am, citizenship doesn't change that. It just confers some benefits like being allowed to molest children, and probably some others I'm less interested in.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b also makes you subject to our broken tax system

right now you can weasel on that if you've got creative accountants

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Already am. It's not like I can not pay taxes because my passport is different.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b If you can argue residence in another country you can petition the IRS to refund a pretty substantial chunk of your taxes

(and for some reason their response isn't "You're kidding, right? FUCK OFF! IT'S OURS NOW BITCH!")

Michael Hampton

16:24

Doesn't that work only if you actually paid taxes to the other country?

Adrian

@HopelessN00b Yeah, I sent him a single-recipient email disagreeing and detailing why it's a bad idea. The problem is that he insists on managing Windows systems and networks as if they were Linux.

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Yeah, I can't make that argument. And I'd have to pay higher taxes in my home country anyway.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b .... this is why our school systems suck.

HopelessN00b

@Adrian Well, you know Windows admins on here, right? In your resignation letter you can always include a bunch of them as resources to unfuck his fuckups at exorbitant rates. :)

voretaq7

(well this and the fact that we spend something insane like 30% of every dollar on defense)

HopelessN00b

16:26

@voretaq7 Not enough taxes? Naw, too many bureaucrats and all the assorted petty tyranny and asshattery as SoP that brings.

Adrian

@voretaq7 That's it? My liberal co-workers and GF rather insist that it's 60+%

voretaq7

@Adrian See I just refuse to manage windows networks because I'm woefully unqualified to do so.

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Throwing money at the education system doesn't work. If it did, Cali would have one of the top 5 school systems in the country, not one of the bottom 5.

voretaq7

The official number is 25%.
Accounting for off-budget stuff it's probably closer to 35-40%

throwing money at it is better than pulling money out of it.
But I agree money alone is not the solution.

Adrian

@voretaq7 Aye. I'm not so good at it, but he's even less so. But his management style is straight out of the 50s though.

The 1350s.

Odd considering that he's several years younger than I am.

voretaq7

16:27

@Adrian shut up and get on the rack, it's time for our status meeting.

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Throwing good money after bad isn't a better solution than to stop wasting money. :p

Michael Hampton

Governments can't stop wasting money.

Adrian

It's actually funny. He runs around wearing T-shirts from Financial Times and The Economist at an EXTREMELY liberal social services non-profit.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b the government has an obligation to educate its idiot citizens - unfortunately that tends to be expensive

Adrian

@WesleyDavid My newest padawan, bless her little heart, just lent me her Exam 70-640 2k8 AD coursebooks.

HopelessN00b

16:30

@voretaq7 How do you figure that?

And additionally, since you can't fix stupid, there are more beneficial ways to waste money. Like giving it [back] to me, for example.

Adrian

Obligation, yes. I'm thinking it's more likely to be in their best interest to not do so.

MikeyB

@voretaq7 arijitvsdelta.blogspot.co.uk - Yep!

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b I figure that because the only way to conquer stupid is to educate the masses. The only way to do that at scale is for the government to fund education.

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 How do you come to that conclusion?

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 And, in addition to @MichaelHampton 's query, by what logic do you think "stupid" is a solvable problem anyway?

Instead of wasting money on a futile endeavor to solving stupid, we should waste our money on a futile endeavor to travel faster than c . At least we'd get some nifty tech out of the latter futile endeavor.

Chopper3

16:37

@graham.reeds you still there?

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton @HopelessN00b Years of a relatively successful public education system in this country producing some rather bright folks (despite the efforts of some in our government to smash it to bits)

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 Which years were those?

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Also, "bright" folks aren't created by the education system. They were bright going in. The fact that they somehow remained bright at the end of their journey through mainstream education is somewhat notable, but not an argument in favor of more of the type of education that crushes so many other bright kids.

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton in NYS - roughly 1890 until the early 2000s "teaching to the tests" mentality

(judging by contemporary standards obviously since an 1890s education would be of limited value now)

@HopelessN00b The education system is designed to cram facts into your brain. If you've got a better way to do that I'm all ears.

Michael Hampton

I dunno, an 1890s education might actually be better than what kids get now.

HopelessN00b

16:41

Really, education dollars would be better spent if we were willing to admit that some people just aren't cut out for a life that involves a lot of thinking. That's fine, spend the dollars on something that will be of use to them (like vocational training), rather than burning cash on the delusional fiction that anyone can become a rocket scientist.

Michael Hampton

And if you want to know what is really going on in those public schools, I suggest you look up a former NYS teacher of the year, John Taylor Gatto.

Or was it NYC, I forget.

voretaq7

You can't change people's innate intelligence, but if you don't equip your society with basic facts and practical knowledge you'll wind up wit Texas.

@MichaelHampton I'm aware the system isn't perfect. The DoD isn't perfect either. I wouldn't advocate stripping all defense funding and shutting the DoD down.

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Teach people how to learn and problem solve. Anyone can look up facts. Actually being able to use your brain for what it is (a powerful differencing engine) is a skill that's not taught, and a skill that does more good than all the memorization you could possibly force on anyone.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b A proper education (the kind I received through the NYS public school system, by the by) teaches you how to think.

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 Oh, if they're still doing that, they'll stop sooner or later.

HopelessN00b

16:44

@MichaelHampton NYC, I think... at least if I'm thinking of the same guy who wrote a book and has a website on what's wrong with the public school system these days.

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b That's him. And, several books now. One or two of them are free on his web site.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b yup that's him. and I think it is NYC

Chris S

@HopelessN00b No Contest is Innocent for a variety of State Licensing issues, like Teacher's Certificate. That's why it's commonly a condition of various plea deals that a teacher gives up their cert voluntarily. Otherwise there's a good chance they'd get to keep it.

Michael Hampton

And anyway, you can put lipstick on OS/2, but it's still a pig.

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton only because of our test-obsessed culture. Teaching people to pass a test is a disservice to humanity, but the solution is to (a) pay teachers enough to fucking eat, and (b) let them fucking teach

HopelessN00b

16:47

@voretaq7 No, it's because we have this delusion forced on the education system that every kid can and should be able to be a world-class intellect. That's like rating a gym teacher on how many of his student go onto a career in professional sports. It's stupid, and counter-productive.

voretaq7

the "good" private schools do that for a very tiny minority of the students in this country who can afford tuitions that make my college education look cheap. A well-funded, properly structured public educational system could do it for probably 70-80% of the population

@HopelessN00b Every kid (absent severe learning disabilities) can learn enough to be functionally literate, do practical math, and have at least a basic command of literature, science and history

HopelessN00b

@ChrisS Must be something that varies by state. Here, guilty and no contest are the same damn thing, and I know they don't make a bit of differnce for federal background checks and the like, either.

Adrian

@MichaelHampton HEY! YOU TAKE THAT BACK! OS/2 is a fine operating system.

voretaq7

@Adrian ...for cash registers.

Zypher

and HVAC systems

don't forget those HVAC systems :)

Adrian

16:49

@voretaq7 And multi-line bulletin board systems too. And don't you forget it.

Michael Hampton

Have you put your OS/2 powered HVAC system on the Internet yet?

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b "No Contest" is a funky construct of law -- sometimes it evaluates to guilty (punished), sometimes to innocent (no impact on your life), and sometimes the judge just looks at you funny because it doesn't exist :)

@Zypher how can I forget. Damn thing sounds like a truck...

Zypher

@MichaelHampton I'm SURE someone somewhere has

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Even if that were true, that hardly matters when the focus is on academic excellence including much more advanced topics than just that (which you have to pass to graduate high school these days).

If it was just about basic literacy, math and sciences (and history), school would be done after middle school.

Adrian

@voretaq7 I had a server like that. An old database server with 11 fans in it. Sounded like a turbo-diesel sitting next to me.

voretaq7

16:52

@HopelessN00b I must have a higher minimum bar for the basics than you do. I don't consider anything through 10th grade in NYS to be "advanced", and the way our educational system is structured that's really all you need to graduate with a basic NYS Regents diploma

(that's usually geology/biology or geology/chemistry, world history, English composition and literature, and math (algebra through basic trig, and you don't really need to know the trig to pass), plus at least 2 years of some kind of art course (student's choice), and mandatory "don't be a fucking fat-ass" PE

Adrian

@voretaq7 English Comp? I beg to differ on that. NYS doesn't teach enough of that to ensure competency.

voretaq7

Personally I'd argue that you should have to pass the US History and Economics courses as well

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 You must, yeah. And it's pretty unfair to those of average (or lower) intelligence, much like it would be unfair to apply a high bar of physical fitness and education to brainy kids with... fewer gifts in the physical realm.

Running a 20 minute 2 [mile] or doing 20 situps, or 10 push ups, or being able to bench half your body weight seem like really low physical standards to me (and they are), but applying those standards to the public education system would mean flunking a lot of kids.

Adrian

@voretaq7 11th Grade US History is a required Regents exam.

voretaq7

@Adrian Preaching to the choir. They tried to fix it with the "new" (2000) English Regents.

Adrian

16:56

@voretaq7 Ah. Right after I left.

voretaq7

@Adrian is it required now?

(or has it always been? they keep changing the minimum list)

Adrian

@voretaq7 It is unless they did away with it. It was required in 91.

voretaq7

@Adrian then it probably still is. The exams themselves are a fucking joke though

Adrian

@voretaq7 Yeah. I got a 92 on my Physics final. Failed the 2nd semester because I quit going to that asshole's class.

voretaq7

@Adrian Note that I said "tried" to fix it -- the solution was it's a 6-hour test now (45 minute multiple choice like it usually is, then the rest is "Write two essays") -- it's a fucking crock.

@Adrian The only regents exam I ever found to be of value was geology/earth science

and that's because it's the only one that requires practical application of the techniques you learned.

Adrian

16:59

@voretaq7 Yeah, I never took that since the school accepted the credits from my freshmen year in Michigan. Took Bio in 10th which was still pretty cake.

voretaq7

@Adrian Bio is easy, chem is relatively easy. Physics would be challenging if it had a practical portion

(the "applied physics" non-regents class at my high school was actually a harder final than the regents IMHO because you had to actually do stuff)

Adrian

@voretaq7 Our Physics class was so damn boring. And it didn't help matters that the Physics teacher's wife hated me. She was the computer lab assistant and knew less about how the Macs worked than I did.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian Oh good. I thought you were tearing it up with Cisco stuff though?

voretaq7

@Adrian Our physics class was taught by Dr. Evil.

guy could do the voice and everything.

Adrian

@WesleyDavid Trying to get the Cisco. But I don't think I have enough hand-on to get past CCNA anytime soon. Need to start implementing stuff like VLANs in production here.

Did Chat just hiccup?

voretaq7

17:04

@Adrian maybe

Adrian

@voretaq7 We're supposed to blame @Zypher, right?

HopelessN00b

I think blaming @Zypher is always a good idea, personally.

voretaq7

@Adrian Bart's the FNG, he gets blamed for hiccups

Adrian

@voretaq7 Oh. Right. It's good to have an FNG.

HopelessN00b

And yeah, my chat just hiccupped too. Gave me an error on trying post, so definitely, to the @Zypher blaming!

Adrian

17:08

I loved it when I came back here. The previous FNG was not happy that I wasn't actually the FNG since everybody remembers me and remembered me doing a better job than he'd been doing.

Michael Hampton

245 rep today, already. Out of close votes. My work is done. See you all tomorrow.

ewwhite

This working thing is weird... how do you guys find time to chat?

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Tiling WM?

Detach the chat tab to a new window, and resize it really small?

ewwhite

Interesting idea.

Michael Hampton

Fits fine in the space not used by all my terminals. :)

voretaq7

17:15

@MichaelHampton browser in one window, documentation editing in another, and a strong desire to procrastinate :P

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Pretty much what @voretaq7 said. I'm doing "job-related" "research" on SF, and the SF chat, you see.

ewwhite

O i C.

Kyle Brandt

@voretaq7: Mind if unclose that, was in the middle of answering it

HopelessN00b

Doing actual work is for suckers anyway. You'll never get promoted to upper management if you're caught doing it.

ewwhite

So back to the 9/11 memorials.

@voretaq7 I watched the morning news and they replayed their broadcast.

voretaq7

17:20

@KyleBrandt sure, go for it

@KyleBrandt just zot my second comment if you reopen it

@ewwhite ...really?

REALLY really?

Michael Hampton

I was up all night reading documentation. Give me a fucking break.

ewwhite

@voretaq7 Minute-for-minute.

I was in Econ class... senior year of college.

voretaq7

@ewwhite I was in a chemistry exam (mandatory start-of-semester thing)

HopelessN00b

Really? I was skipping Econ class when the towers got hit. Heh.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b only terrorists skip economics classes. Next you'll be telling us the fed isn't a magical all-knowing entity of benevolent monetary magic.

Adrian

17:24

Yep. Knew it. Micro-Manager Man insisted it be done exactly his way because he's the Boss.

His "compromise" position was to swap the domain and DC names. Idiot.

ewwhite

But the highlight of the day has been the New York Times article, The Deafness Before the Storm

voretaq7

12

Q: Windows AD Domain naming recommendations

After experimenting with domains and domain controllers in a virtual environment I realized that having an AD domain named identically to a... well, DNS domain is bad idea (I mean, we have foo.com as our website, so foo.com as a AD domain name is no good). This has only reassured me in my conclus...

unfortunately doesn't seem to say anything about the DC name

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Meh, looks like more partisan shit. FFS, the Clinton administration was offered Bin Laden on a silver platter and turned the offer down because it was politically awkward. Everyone [politician-wise] was deaf to AQ until they took down the towers.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b Governments are reactive entities.

Adrian

He gets this really verklempt look in his face when he's asserting his management authority. It's like hearing the whistle of falling bombs. You know a stupid top-down technical decision's in the way.

HopelessN00b

17:28

@voretaq7 Among other pejorative qualities, yes.

voretaq7

@Adrian meh, just document the broken

HopelessN00b

@Adrian Gotta learn to see the silver-lining in those black management clouds. Such as being paid a high rate to fix the fuckup later, or the satisfaction of watching a moron slowly shoot his own foot off, or overtime, if applicable, or job security, etc...

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b No satisfaction. It sucks all the way around.

Adrian

@ewwhite. Exactly. I hate to see a job done poorly.

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Really? These days, that's the primary source of satisfaction at work, watching the PHAH enthusiastically dig his own grave and shoot little bits off his foot. Maybe you just need to get more in touch with your inner sadist. :p

ewwhite

17:37

@HopelessN00b Man, I've seen too much of that... If you knew what I've been through in the workplace...

So I'm taking a back seat this time... I'm at a place with smart people. I'm not a superstar here... it's an opportunity to learn a bit and not worry about the craziness.

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite I suspect it's about what I've seen. Taking satisfaction from watching an idiot self-harm has to be a defense mechanism created as a result of seeing too many idiots eff things up.

"At least he'll feel the pain sooner or later" or something along those lines, as a consolation prize for having to put up with the st00pid.

ewwhite

Or you leave for a more healthier environment.

it takes too much effort to hate.

Adrian

@ewwhite Sounds like Heaven to me. I want to work hard, go home at a reasonable hour, and learn good shit.

ewwhite

Well, I've decided I can't have it my way all the time anymore.

And that I don't like Linux that much either.

shock

HopelessN00b

@ewwhite Does that mean you're coming over to the Windows side? Because the grass isn't any greener, even if you set the background image to a beautiful pasture.

Chloe

17:49

@HopelessN00b But we do have a clear target to attack, which is nice

voretaq7

@Chloe Mark Shuttleworth is a clear target.

Adrian

@voretaq7 This is true. A gardening hoe to the crotch would be perfect.

HopelessN00b

18:11

Mmm... crotch hoes... wait, that's something else.

lsiunsuex

type.method.ac/# learn, how to kern

ewwhite

@HopelessN00b No, it's just that I care about solutions... but don't enjoy getting deep in Linux much anymore.

HopelessN00b

Who does? Anytime you have to get deep into [x], it's because designer of [x] fucked up something - the design, the UI, the functionality, whatever... but something.

Chloe

@lsiunsuex 100/100 on Await!

tombull89

18:33

5

MikeyB

@Chloe Does it summarize your scores? Wondering whether to whip it out now or later.

Chloe

@MikeyB 0.o

MikeyB

@Chloe ohhh perfect on 3 of 'em, 80% total… that's fun :) I have discovered that I have a marked tendency to leave the letters too far to the right.

Chloe

@MikeyB I'm not really patient enough for those games. I can tell when it's out, but struggle to get it to a point where I'm happy

Scott Pack

@lsiunsuex Asshole.

MikeyB

18:42

@Chloe 10 trials is a nice number. Enough to get familar with it, not too many that you'll get bored.

Chloe

@MikeyB Same reason I only have sex 10 times with any one person

MikeyB

@Chloe LEVEL UP!

84104

@Chloe So that special person is also going to be a Spinal Tap reference.

2

Chloe

@84104 It took me a second, but very good!

Adrian

Can someone please explain to me WhyTF some managers feel the need to compound stupid decision with even stupider follow-up decisions in an effort to appear infallible? Sheesh.

lsiunsuex

18:53

@ScottPack ?

84104

@Adrian You betrayed someone in your past life.

Adrian

@84104 Perhaps. And probably as rational of an explanation as any real one.

Probably time to start doing consulting work on the side. At least I can get some satisfaction from being my boss for part of my work.

And when my emplyer demands that I pay them the gross receipts for what I received, they can fire me and I'll charge them double.

Chloe

@Adrian I'm not a self employed consultant, but it gets no better except now they're the customer so you have to be extra nice

HopelessN00b

@Chloe No, it's more satisfying. As in "alright, you wanna pay me $250 an hour to set this up like a drunk moron... well, I'll take the money, and even do it sober."

But you are right in that you have to say it nicely, even if you're thinking more along the lines of the above.

Zoredache

@Adrian I don't get how a non-profit, which is doing nothing interesting, feels that it can get away with a non-compete.

Adrian

19:00

@Chloe Yes, but you get to charge them for their fuck-ups. Right now, I just get to work longer hours

Chloe

That said, I've only ever worked for a non-IT company for 2 years at the start of my career. Ever since then I've worked for companies whose sole job is to supply IT solutions and from everything I've ever read it's far more enjoyable then working for an IT Department at a company

@Adrian @HopelessN00b Both very fair points ;)

Joel E Salas

@Zoredache Wooo California! Can't pull that shit here

HopelessN00b

@JoelESalas Uh, they sure can. Silicon Valley's packed with non-competes. That they actually enforce.

Joel E Salas

@Chloe There's a huge distinction between working for a tech company, and working for a company that happens to have a tech department

Non-compete clause

A non-compete clause (often NCC), or covenant not to compete (CNC), is a term used in contract law under which one party (usually an employee) agrees not to pursue a similar profession or trade in competition against another party (usually the employer). As a contract provision, a CNC is bound by traditional contract requirements including the consideration doctrine. The use of such clauses is premised on the possibility that upon their termination or resignation, an employee might begin working for a competitor or starting a business, and gain competitive advantage by abusing confident...

Chloe

@JoelESalas My old employer made me sign some shit about not being able to work for a competitor for 6 months after leaving. I have no idea why - loads of people did it and vice versa and it would never have stood up in any court

Adrian

19:02

This isn't actually a non-compete. They'd REALLY like to do that to us though.

The Board was PISSED when our old IT Director left and went into business doing consulting work with other agencies for the product we'd just open sourced.

Joel E Salas

tl;dr don't work for a startup or LLC and you're good

Adrian

Seattle: A very liberal city run by Republicans in blue sheep suits.

Joel E Salas

@Adrian Sounds like they're master tacticians

Adrian

@JoelESalas Actually, they're mostly fairly powerful local bureaucrats. Not the kind of people to piss off. One is the Asst. Police Chief for the city.

HopelessN00b

@Chloe Don't be so sure it wouldn't hold up. A lot of the big tech companies have been able to enforce theirs in court against competitors who poached their talent.

Not that it has to hold up, all they really need to do is send a letter threatening to sue to enforce, and most companies'll drop you like you're radioactive.

Chloe

19:06

@HopelessN00b "Poaching" is normally pretty specific, it'd be incredibly difficult to prevent me from applying for a job with a competitor. Especially as I'm a (reasonably) niche market with only a handful of big players.

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b I lol'd at radioactive

Adrian

@HopelessN00b Nice thing about THIS town is that if it actually gets to a jury, the company generally loses.

Chloe

@HopelessN00b Only if they do the whole probation period, but then I'm still not convinced that would be legal either

HopelessN00b

@Adrian At which point you've spent 3 year's salary on a lawyer so you can keep your current job. Hardly seems worth it.

Adrian

@Chloe I think they have to compensate you for that period here. They can't deprive you of your livelihood after you leave employment.

HopelessN00b

19:07

@Chloe The probation period thing only applies in state that aren't at-will employment states.

ewwhite

Non-competes.. I've spent $12k on lawyers over the past 4 years.

Chloe

@HopelessN00b I'm UK dude - we're about as far from "at-will" as you can get!

Adrian

@ewwhite Ouch. That's nearly as much as a divorce trial.

Joel E Salas

@Adrian Well tell me when you decide to start a consultancy and we'll provide e-business solutions in the cloud to gain vertical traction on key line-of-business IT silos

ewwhite

But the benefit is that I can protect certain interests now.

With this new job, I used some of my lawyer's language to modify the employment contract

HopelessN00b

19:08

@JoelESalas Lol. If I can intertwine a few more buzwords into your paradigm for better synergy, can get in on that racket?

Joel E Salas

@HopelessN00b Only if you can bring your rockstar agile scrum master devops infrastructure-as-code ninja skills to the table

Adrian

@ewwhite Aye. That's one thing that almost had me forgo working at IBM when they bought the .com I worked for. The IP assigment sheet, but IBM was willing to ignore my personal stuff as long as I wasn't using any IBM-owned stuff to work on it.

They were rather cordial and chill about it, actually.

HopelessN00b

I was sold until you said "devops," sorry. Although, when I binge drink, I can do devops... maybe I could work for you during my three-sheets-to-the-wind hours.

MikeyB

So… err… what's the name of that Windows program one would use to provide a 'before' and 'after' snapshot of the system to track changes made by installers and show a difference?

Chloe

@MikeyB A lot of the packaging tools do that sort of thing

Joel E Salas

19:12

@MikeyB System Restore

MikeyB

@JoelESalas That'll show complete output of "the registry was changed here, here and here and also show files changed?"

ewwhite

@Adrian I answered a workplace.SE question about that... but removed the answer because I don't want to be responsible for legal woes.

Joel E Salas

@MikeyB Not really, I was mostly being facetious. I have encountered a tool that will show those changes. One sec.

MikeyB

@Chloe Let's presume I don't have any packaging tools :) Trying to diagnose a driver installation problem for an end user where the silent install fails but the gui install works :(

Chloe

@MikeyB Ooh, I prefer Procmon for that sort of thing

Joel E Salas

19:14

@MikeyB technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx

Chloe

You could easily dump the registry by hand, but yeah, files are a bit tougher

HopelessN00b

Alright, I'm off to deliver my report on why we need a fucking tape measure around here, which is cleverly disguised as a report on what cable lengths we need to order, as measured in approximations of various body parts of mine.

HP should have no problem figuring out what length cable corresponds to 4 of my feet, of 3 forearms and 2 thumbs, right?

2

MikeyB

@Chloe Tricky thing there is that what's important is the state of the machine after a reboot.

Chloe

@MikeyB I'd hazard a guess that your issue is during the actual install

What's the installer?

Like is an MSI, or install shield or something?

MikeyB

@Chloe msi installer. Now it's not our installer, it's Broadcom's. If they don't want to fix the problem with this old version, we'll probably help our $CUST to manually make it right.

Lucas Kauffman

19:19

evening gents

and ladies

MikeyB

Hmm something like sourceforge.net/projects/regshot will compare before & after of the registry…

Chloe

@MikeyB Does it work if you do an unattended install, rather than silent?

(i.e. /passive)

MikeyB

@Chloe Not sure if that's an option, but worth investigating. It's an InstallShield MSI.

Chloe

@MikeyB Ah, the worst kind

Is it a setup.exe job or a raw msi at least?

MikeyB

@Chloe Ah… ah… ah… setup /s /w /v"/qn /L*v! ..\..\Mgmt-%_log% ADDSOURCE=BACSa64,BASPa64,CIMa64 REBOOT=ReallySuppress"… choo!!!

Chloe

19:32

@MikeyB I've had bad times with just normal software using that. Personally, I'd be trying to extract the drivers and roll my own MSI. Doesn't work if they need whatever software comes with it thoug

MikeyB

@Chloe That is the installer for the software :/ Ugh… why can't Windows just provide a unified Ethernet 802.1ad/active-passive/whatever stack… The other stupid thing is that this is an OLD version of the driver & mgmt apps as it's what they've certified for their environment. Ugh.

HopelessN00b

19:54

0

Q: Load Balancing on IIS

I have applications running on IIS, previously standalone. I'm trying to implement high availability and looking for the best option. I have the option of a hardware load balancer, or network load balancer which I have used in the past for sharepoint. However in this situation I generate some re...

iis load-balancing arr

Am I the only one who's not sure what the hell he's asking for?

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