The Comms Room

voretaq7

20:00

@WesleyDavid SpamAssassin gives me grey hairs on any platform. Except Windows -- there it makes my hair fall out :-D

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 I barely remembered that SA had a Windows distribution. I guess I didn't take it seriously.

Then it's fun to toss the "FreeBSD vs OpenBSD" grenade into a room of BSD fans. =)

Chris S

@WesleyDavid CARP + Sendmail & SA would be pretty quick... I don't know what they did (or when, might have been before CARP, but that was while ago).

WesleyDavid

Whatever happened to dragonfly BSD?

Chris S

@WesleyDavid It's still around and kicking just as well as when it forked (ie, very small following)

WesleyDavid

I guess it's still around, but I hear so little about it. I liked what I saw of it a few years ago when I was looking at BSDs.

Chris S

20:03

I don't know of any significant things they've done, so they're not very well known.

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid I just wish FreeBSD would import pf faster :-)

Chris S

OpenBSD has a pretty small user base too, but they do so many notable projects (that are 'stolen' and used in other projects) that they're very hard to ignore.

voretaq7

I'm almost willing to run OpenBSD on my edge firewalls, but I dislike Theo's release mentality ("Everyone runs -current all the time").

Chris S

@voretaq7 What's wrong with ipfw?

WesleyDavid

@ChrisS Yeah, as I've tried to whittle down which BSD to take the time to focus on, I just can't seem to decide between free and open. I was thinking Free just because of its userbase.

Oh, yes, I forgot about Theo. That seems to be a negative to the use of OpenBSD as well, but it could just be my glancing perception.

voretaq7

20:05

@ChrisS nothing really, but altq & nat under pf seem more natural to me, it's almost entirely a syntax thing too since I'm used to hanging out with Cisco folks.

Chris S

@WesleyDavid FreeBSD is much easier to learn because of the number of people you can ask questions. Once you know one of them pretty well, the other's aren't terrible different.

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid what @ChrisS said -- I'd start with FreeBSD just because of the handbook though. 99% of what you need for *BSD (and really a wealth of info on general unix topics) is right there.

Chris S

@voretaq7 that is my main complaint with ipfw is that you can really tell the various pieces that are cobbled together to make a 'complete' firewall; configurations all over the place, different syntax. Even ipfw's CLI has goofy commands.

voretaq7

@ChrisS yeah. I'm used to ipfw from the old days (back when it was that or ipf), but like I said pf just seems more put-together.

plus I can do a lot of load balancing/HA type stuff with pf rather than running haproxy :-)

Chris S

@voretaq7 shudders at the thought of ipf

WesleyDavid

20:09

Okay, so FreeBSD it is. Now we begin the argument about quantity of drivers and if it will work on my Dell laptop as well as SUSE does... ;)

packs

@ChrisS One of the few things I think Apple did well with the BSD shift was give a workable GUI for ipfw.

Chris S

@WesleyDavid Probably not... when is your laptop from and do you have any strange attachments?

WesleyDavid

Dell XPS m1530, late 2007 manufacturing, has nVidia mobile card, no strange attachments other than a card reader.

SUSE is actually supported on this thing and has nVidia drivers as well.

No, early 2007 manufacturing

It just turned three years old a few weeks ago and probably has another three years left in it.

Chris S

@WesleyDavid You should be fine, but you'll have to download the nVidia driver from their website, compile, and install. Or you can use Xorg's driver, but it doesn't have OpenGL.

Chopper3

I love linux, I'm just not as good with it as I am with Windows

obfuscurity

20:12

BSD is Dead, bitches.

WesleyDavid

hehehe

I thought you'd show up.

obfuscurity

I love when people refer to Theo as a "negative". Right, because he hangs out at my pad and hassles me while my firewall putters on.

WesleyDavid

So I'm going all FreeBSD. Whadaya think of that, poser?

=)

Theo kicked my dog. =(

3

Chopper3

wonder if/how apple will move forward on their kernel?

obfuscurity

You couldn't handle OpenBSD's level of awesome.

FreeBSD is cool if you're going to use jails + ZFS + Dtrace.

WesleyDavid

20:14

@obfuscurity So judging by your avatar... you're into Puppy Linux, right?

Chris S

@Chopper3 Call CMU and ask for a new version?

obfuscurity

oh rite

WesleyDavid

@obfuscurity What's running on the PC you're using right now?

Chopper3

but isn't jails a pile-o-crap cul-de-sac?

Chris S

@Chopper3 depends on what you're trying to accomplish...

Chopper3

20:18

live migration?

Chris S

jails != VMs
I don't know of any system that can migrate a running application from one computer to another.

Chopper3

huh?

Chris S

jails provide userland containment; so the apps running in them think they're on their own computer, but are actually sharing the same kernel as the other apps on the computer.

great for something like a shared web host; run a copy of Apache for each account so users can make all the changes they want to httpd.conf without causing havoc on others' accounts.

They're also useful for putting potentially exploitable apps in a sandbox. I run BIND and Apache this way commonly. If someone rooted one of those apps they'd find about 20 files in the 'file system' and any damage they did would be easily restored from backup/snapshot.

Iain

oh dear serverfault.com/questions/227338/mysql-disaster-recovery

Ben

Honestly, it's not the first major disaster in our company ... some people never learn :(

Iain

20:28

and the backups don't work

Ward

and obviously, the backup process is not working since a long time, ... ai yi yi

Dan

This needs a special "Sucks to be you" close option.

obfuscurity

Belkin, fuck you and the engineer that created your F5D8236-4v1(01).

@WesleyDavid I'm on my MBA.

Chris S

@obfuscurity How I love my Alix boxen running FreeBSD 8.1 =)

Chopper3

@Iain he's French, can't he just shrug it off

Iain

20:34

with and expansive gallic shrug

Chopper3

cross his legs, light a Gauluoise (sp?) and slap a waitresse's arse

Iain

@Chopper3 that appears to have been the lessons they learned from previous problems

Chopper3

it's done them just fine for 2000 years

sysadmin1138

That poor person.

"My condolences on your data-loss" would NOT be a constructive comment.

Chopper3

Sam

20:54

Aaargh, can I have the last 5 hours of my life back please!

Chris S

21:12

@Sam If you find someone to grant this, send them my direction after you're done.

Vinko Vrsalovic

21:33

Hey, anybody in here? I'm wondering what's the best choice : HP Networking Switch V1810G-24 (semi managed), NETGEAR Smart Switch Gigabit GS724T (semi managed), Cisco SB SG 102-24 (non managed). I don't really need management but it'd be a nice to have (I've never toyed with such a device before)

sysadmin1138

My preference is for the HP.

Vinko Vrsalovic

Just because, or... ?

sysadmin1138

Not netgear because it's netgear. And not cisco because that's expensive. Ergo, HP. I didn't say it was a well reasoned answer, it's just a preference.

Vinko Vrsalovic

The cisco is their small business offerings (Ex Linksys) and is at the same price range (well, without the fancy features)

voretaq7

Mmmm, weather... double-outages.... I </3 NY

Vinko Vrsalovic

21:39

You are less than 13 new yorks?

voretaq7

@Iain I think they're counting on the "Lightning doesn't strike in the same place twice" principle.

@VinkoVrsalovic Yes. But I'm approximately equivalent to 2 old Yorks

Iain

@voretaq7 I think that principle has been disproved now

voretaq7

@sysadmin1138 Netgear's suck quotient isn't too awful. Wouldn't use it for anything mission-critical, but we use them as access switches here.

Warner

22:01

I like the blue metal Netgear switches for general purpose, totally agree @voretaq7.

For managed switches, I usually prefer Cisco.

voretaq7

@Warner If you have the cash Cisco is definitely the way to go - my personal hardware bias pretty much ends with "It speaks 802.1Q, right?" :-)

Warner

haha

You should check out used places for network equipment, which can offer substantial savings.

There's Horizon Datacom in Columbus but there's usually several in most local markets.

Sam

I've had some bad experiences with the low end cisco (was linksys) stuff, I try and avoid that.

But if I have the cash, then high end cisco all the way.

voretaq7

@Sam I've had bad experiences with cisco-but-not-Cisco (i.e. cisco off-brands like Linksys & Scientific Atlanta)

Used Cisco gear is usually good though, and normally you can get Cisco support/service on it

Vinko Vrsalovic

22:17

What about HP, no experiences to tell?

voretaq7

@VinkoVrsalovic never really worked in a HP shop myself

my experience with HP gear is limited to HP-UX RISC machines (and therefore somewhat unpleasant :-)

Vinko Vrsalovic

Ok, I think I'll go for the NETGEAR then

Robert Moir

http://serverfault.com/questions/227366/two-exchange-servers-on-same-network

Questions like this make me worried. I want to answer with: "Yes its possible, but if you have to ask how then you're probably going to need to get help" when I see stuff like that

Bart Silverstrim

I thought @Chopper3 would like this, but others might like it too. escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/…

Sam

@robertmoir Also known as " how can I break my exchange install by not knowing what I'm doing in 10 easy steps"

Robert Moir

22:27

Oh yes.

Bart Silverstrim

10 steps?

Robert Moir

I don't like doing the "consultant" thing but i've been called in to fix a lot of borked exchange installs that started out with someone asking a question like this... and I know i'm far from the only one

got to love zero punctuation

Sam

Nope, definateły not the only one.

Chopper3

You rang!

Bart Silverstrim

Dropped a link for you in honor of your obsession.

Sam

22:29

You've got to wonder about the mind set that thinks "shall I test exchange in a nice separate test environment, maybe in some VMs, no let's put it on the production network, live on the edge!"

Bart Silverstrim

Wow...@Pauska took that conversation a day or two ago about using socks as weapons in the election a little too seriously...I have to star it though.

kenny.r

Backups are for people that make mistakes!

Chopper3

Cool, building a 1:1 ratio CVN-79 :)

Zoredache

Or people that have coworkers.

Robert Moir

I think Pauska needs to see that conversation as a monument to thinking before you say something in a place with a convo history

Sam

22:33

I really need to dedicate the time to giving minecraft a go.

Chopper3

I love it, get the kids to do the repetitive stuff

Sam

Outsourcing! :)

voretaq7

ok, time to sneak out of the office early before something else breaks :-P later all

Robert Moir

later

voretaq7

I leave you all with this gem: foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/26/… (4th paragraph)

::flee::

Warner

22:38

Woot, was just promoted.

sysadmin1138

@voretaq7 ohfortheloveofponies.

kenny.r

Congratulations Warner!

Warner

Which is also partially why I have been a bit less active lately.

Chopper3

Hahaha (the ipv6 thing, not you warner, well done)

Robert Moir

congrats

Warner

22:39

Thanks!

sysadmin1138

Congratulations!

Ben

Yay congrats @Warner

Robert Moir

promotions are good

Sam

Congrats

@voretaq7 OMG IPacalypse!!!!!

Wowsers:
http://serverfault.com/questions/227338/mysql-disaster-recovery

sysadmin1138

Yeeeaaaah, that guy. Boor bugger.

Robert Moir

22:44

:-O

That post could be captioned "And you thought YOU were having a bad day"

I don't know what else to say

sysadmin1138

"My condolences on your data-loss" would NOT be a constructive comment.

Warner

haha, @sysadmin1138

Robert Moir

then lets hope tomtom doesn't see that post

Zoredache

No, but someone may need to add a comment telling him that the chance of recovery is extremely unlikely. If the system has been in use the data is most likely gone.

Iain

@sam see @Chopper3's comment on that question above

Chopper3

22:48

What's French for "I hope your CV is up to date"?

Iain

J'espère que votre C.V est à jour

google translate is better (even if wildly incorrect) than my french

Chopper3

Démarrer un incendie, la fuite

Iain

this is better it translates both ways
J'espère que votre curriculum vitae est à jour

Chopper3

That didn't work for me, that was supposed to say "start a fire, run away"

Robert Moir

Server Fault: Now with "O" level french revision lessons

Chopper3

22:55

Showing your age there :), son's doing some of his gcse's at the moment actually

Iain

O level

Robert Moir

Oh yeah

Iain

this is way above that

I have O levels

but not french

I may have got an E but it could have been a U

Sam

A have a grade C GCSE in French, just.

Robert Moir

I can't remember any of my o level results except for computer science

Ben

22:57

Oddly enough I got an A in French and a C in English :| Not too bad really for something I didn't much care for, so put practically no effort in to!

Iain

We didn't have a computer in the school I went to till I was in the 6th form

Robert Moir

I got an A despite being thrown out of every class for arguing with the teacher... I guess I've always been a smartass geek with a big mouth

Chopper3

Son's doing 13 of the bloody things!

Sam

I have a grade B in Latin as well, which has obviously come in useful for my career choice

Robert Moir

13 GCSEs? Smart kid. He must be awfully busy!

Chopper3

22:59

Yeah, plus he's captain of the rowing club and plays bass in a (shit) band

Robert Moir

that's quite impressive....

Sam

My partners an IT teacher, some of her kids will have 3 IT GCSEs when they leave now, they start them at 13.

Chopper3

Too much energy, no time for girls though, which isn't a problem really

Robert Moir

i don't think they actually do a "computer science" GCSE or A level. Its all "ICT $whatever"

Farseeker

Haha, normally it's fathers being glad their daughters don't have time for boys

Sam

23:01

Yeah it's usually something vague that encompasses everything from word processing to games development.

Chopper3

He's six foot six with a blonde Afro and plays bass wearing night vision goggles, the girls love him but he just doesn't have any time for them

Farseeker

Sounds like someone my wife would be into

(she's 6'2" and my son is only 8 months and already well on his way to being taller than her)

Robert Moir

that whole not having time for them thing is probably part of the allure. You need to tell him to keep that vibe going when he does get around to it

Farseeker

Maybe don't wear night vision goggles on the first date though

Robert Moir

yeah...

Chopper3

23:03

There's worse to worry about

It does look cool, but they change their name every week

Robert Moir

secretgeometry.com/apps/cathode

Farseeker

@RobertMoir - whyyyyyyyyyyy?

Who thought that would be a good idea?

Chopper3

It was roflcopter for a few weeks, then Golf Sale, then Jeremy Kyle's Mouth of Hair etc.

kenny.r

Hipsters.

Farseeker

They said it the best themselves "Disregard thirty years of GUI advancement by immersing yourself in full-screen mode. Impress curious onlookers at internet cafes."

Robert Moir

23:06

I don't know. I can't decide if I want to download it for a joke or if I should be allowed to hunt down and kill the author

Farseeker

roflcopter, haha thats a good name for a band

Tell them to go back to that one

Robert Moir

i like roflcopter

Farseeker

I like the Jeremy Kyle one as well

Not so sure about Golf Sale

Chopper3

Plus there was Disco Fanny, Kill Him! and Trust Chewy

Robert Moir

but are they as good as brett domino? youtube.com/watch?v=xTwweLJ78KE

someone must be spending a fair amount of time working on the list of names

Chopper3

23:09

More than songs certainly

Farseeker

Now, does Fanny in your world mean Vagina or Bottom?

Robert Moir

heh

fanny is vagina in the uk

Chopper3

Front not back

Farseeker

Because the funniest thing in the world for me as a 10 year old was The Nanny's theme song where it goes "And she was out on her fanny"

Robert Moir

oh yeah

Farseeker

23:10

So I don't know about Disco Fanny, but Disco Vagina I'm sure would get a 2nd look

Althought i'm not sure I'd want to tell my Mum I'm in a band that had the word "vagina" in it

Sam

I'm off, night all

sysadmin1138

G'night.

Robert Moir

night

Farseeker

Night

Ben

Night Sam

Chopper3

23:15

Night

Robert Moir

i think i'm gonna join the goodnight chorus. See you folks later

Farseeker

Cya @RobertMoir

sysadmin1138

Take care.

WesleyDavid

23:48

Yay, I just crested the 4K rep mark on SF. Thumbs up for arbitrary numbers and mean nothing about a person.

Zoredache

Congratulations, but you'll need to answer a lot more if you want to succeed at your 10k goal.

sysadmin1138

I was pretty stoked when I crossed 20K.

Farseeker

I've given up aiming for any milestones

It takes a very, very long time to get from 10k to 20k

sysadmin1138

The long slog between 3K and 10K discouraged me from SF for several months. A fact you can see on my rep-chart.

Farseeker

@sysadmin1138 - I can relate

kenny.r

23:50

I felt so silly when I saw a presentation given by Jeff Atwood about SO. He said something like "People will do anything for some imaginary points and badges", with a wide grin.

sysadmin1138

@kennyr He was not far wrong.

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