The Comms Room

Michael Hampton

00:41

Can't you just take a few inches out of that fiber box?

@ewwhite I wonder how many packets that can generate at line rate.

ewwhite

The dev/CTO just gave me a full explanation of what he's doing.

He wants the hardware equivalent of spinning up a couple of EC2 instances.

Michael Hampton

What does that even mean?

ewwhite

As I mentioned on serverfault, I'm really not doing much. Basic software testing of netmap. The biggest thing is that it be simple to set up, in other words, I want to buy some shit that is totally plug and play. I don't want to think about what connectors I need, what vendor SFP I need, any of that.

I can figure that out and I guess I will but honestly its just a waste of time for what I'm doing. At this point, and it very likely might not go beyond this point

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: sounds like he needs a consultant ;p

ewwhite

I just want to get netmap to work, see what the latency is, compare it to sockets, and maybe if that looks good do a little programming to do a decent simulation of how long would it take to route OUCH ( inet ) traffic ( get a packet with an OUCH message, do some bullshit check for risk management, something stupid simple like "is this order for more than 5000 shares" and send it out like I'm sending it to inet ).

suppose you have an OUCH gateway that internally takes 2 usec to do risk checks and add a sequence number or whatever. Well, shit, at that point the software networking is a huge bottleneck, straight socket linux is going to cost you 2-5 usec for a recv and 2-5 usec for a send. Even with kernel bypass you're talking maybe 1 usec for each send and recv so that is still 100% of the time you are processing it.

So he just wanted to prototype this.

I'm wondering if this netmap thing can get significantly below 1 usec which would be really nice because you can keep programming it in C/C++ on a normal OS as opposed to getting funky with an FPGA or something like the Arista.

(This is how trading/finance people think. I used to have to build things like this to satisfy curiosities.... Then scrap them)

Matthew Ife

00:55

If the idea is to beat someone else competitively, since you're not doing the lowest possible common denominator - its not got a great degree of confidence that it will work.

ewwhite

I'm in Toronto, where I used to have a significant trading footprint at a former job. 2 years later, it's all been dismantled.

Couldn't make money with their simple north-south arbitrage between Toronto and New York.

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite heh. s/poor/stupid honestly. Putting side coffee money every week will eventually end up with enough money to try stuff like that. As would knowing local lugs and places like that for free hardware

ewwhite

Oh, he has the cash. But I think it's just something he wanted to test. $2k budget for NICs and interconnects.

Journeyman Geek

Oh, I mean the other guy

ewwhite

Oh, yeah.

Journeyman Geek

01:00

(hell, if I needed a dirt cheap switch in a rush, and I didn't want something new, I know few places where I can pick up one at roughly scrap value)

ewwhite

@matthew think it's worth looking?

@journey eBay.

Matthew Ife

If he has the time and energy, sure.

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: shipping would be a pain. There's a few local stores that specialise in not quite gently used, older hardware

very dodgy seeming.

Matthew Ife

I think having to do a userspace protocol stack may limit its implementation in anything serious.

ewwhite

@matthew do you do anything with Myricom or Solarflare openonload?

Journeyman Geek

01:02

I personally don't see the point on cutting too many corners on hardware for personal use, damned things are going to run for at least a decade.

Matthew Ife

Basically if you're investing $1500000 a year on people to write you the algos for you're infrastructure, you're a moron to not pay $20000 for the fpgas and leverage your development teams to use them (that is, if you're in serious need of the latency)

Well, latency isn't as an important factor for our models (well, we want sub-second obviously but 60-70 microseconds isn't too much of a problem for us)

We've done stuff like GSO/TSO etc.

That has had limited success in some revisions due to silly kernel bugs though.

ewwhite

His firm isn't using FPGA solutions yet. Everyone else I've worked with has adopted that in some form.

Matthew Ife

From what I can gather, -- not that I know much -- most of our models work on the basis of mid to long term market analysis, not subsecond trends and using peripheral data sources outside of what the exchanges provide to make ordering decisions.

So a lot of analysis of news feeds for upcoming events.

ewwhite

I used to do work for a place that provided machine-readable news.

As an input for automated systems. It was an interesting space to be in.

Matthew Ife

1

Q: How to recover data from a messed up drive (LVM written on top of Ext4)?

The previous administrator of a server that is now under my supervision made a mistake. He accidentally created a LVM volume (no more than pvcreate, I think, though not sure) on a disk that actually contained an Ext4 partition with data. What tools exist to recover data from a mistake like this? ...

This guy should try mounting with an alternative superblock.

Michael Hampton

01:12

@MatthewIfe This guy should post an answer. :)

Matthew Ife

I'm waiting for more details ;)

But its possible to remount using an alternative superblock.

If the data hasn't been stuffed over with another mkfs or something.

Michael Hampton

What more details? The guy replaced an incompetent moron who should never have been allowed near computers.

ewwhite

:(

I aborted to see the incomplete results. Seems that the IntelliRAW just dumps the inode contents or something. I'm getting files named "00002601.txt" and inside there are man pages or logfiles or whatever. I'm afraid this won't do. :( — Vilx- 2 hours ago

Matthew Ife

01:26

@MichaelHampton I answered it because I need to sleep and cant be arsed waiting for him to get back.

ewwhite

Aww

Mark Henderson

02:29

Fuck Apple

3

I can basically never log onto my Apple account because it's telling me that my password is shit and forcing me to change it

a. It's not shit

b. No

Journeyman Geek

03:00

lol

Michael Hampton

Damn, I upvoted that guy's question, but now I'm not so sure I should have...He seems to not be very good at following directions.

Stack Exchange

03:19

myotherpcisacloud.com: Get-MD4Hash

posted on September 08, 2014 by ryan

Greetings, Earthlings. Today was a pretty lazy Sunday, in which I was throwing around some ideas involving pass-the-hash attacks and Windows password hashes. Nothing ground-breaking there, but during my research, I realized that there's very little out there for just simply generating an NT hash from a password, which if you're reading this you probably already know is just the …

Mark Henderson

05:52

Well, running a single shared Azure instance for 1 month cost me $8

(Well, it used $8 in credit)

Its weird. It has billed me 110 compute hours, but the VM was powered on for 700 hours

MichelZ

that's cool

Falcon Momot

huh.

I'm not really certain of azure still

MichelZ

yeah

I'm also not sure if it really saves you money

Falcon Momot

cloud servers basically never save you money on costs

they might save you personnel costs sometimes

but otherwise, racking your own and operating them will be cheaper every time, and at the end of the amortization you have servers.

MichelZ

yep

and I know where my data is

Mark Henderson

05:59

@FalconMomot Agreed. But I get $160/month in credit so I may as well use it

MichelZ

@MarkHenderson MSDN?

Falcon Momot

@MarkHenderson yeah totally

MichelZ

Azure MSDN dev and test subscriptions are specifically for dev and test usage only. Production workloads must be run on regular subscriptions.

Falcon Momot

one of the things that is nice about AWS though is that I can have a script rent hardware instead of having to go through acquisition and IMAC

MichelZ

just be aware of those little things :)

Falcon Momot

06:02

but you pay for those conveniences

MichelZ

@FalconMomot: I like to see it as an extension point for the future. If you're at capacity, you can just use a VM until you have built the capacity yourself

Falcon Momot

@MichelZ yup that is my model too

MichelZ

but capacity is so cheap nowadays

Falcon Momot

but one catch is that if you're going to go that route you need to provision dedicated capacity between you and AWS

which you totally can, but it's not cheap

and it's hard to do unless you have some serious scale

MichelZ

what do you mean?

Falcon Momot

06:04

well like

let's say your application does data processing, like almost every application

at least some of the data involved in that is probably stored on your fixed capacity

it's probably all stored there until the capacity shortage is realized

MichelZ

ah, yes

Falcon Momot

you have to get the data to AWS and if you're even a little transfer-bound you will feel it

so you can have an exchange point with them

but you have to set that up, and the end of some fibre must turn up at their place

hey, can I be a massive fire-breathing dragon instead of having to deal with interpersonal politics?

Mark Henderson

@MichelZ BizSpark

MichelZ

ah

dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-09-08/…

Magellan

06:26

evenin' gents

MichelZ

morning dude

Magellan

I clearly have been working too hard. The star wall just about made me pee myself with laughter.

Falcon Momot

06:45

as long as you don't write java while so doing.

Magellan

@FalconMomot write Java? fuck that noise.

Falcon Momot

@Magellan yay there are good people in the world

Magellan

@FalconMomot ugh. the stories I could tell you about Java support would make your eyes bleed.

Falcon Momot

see, the reason I rail against it is that I have a few of my own.

a technical person who loves java because he doesn't know any other languages well told me the other day that normal code maintainability principles do not apply to java

Magellan

evil. evil evil things.

Falcon Momot

06:47

and no, I haven't seen anything quite like that.

Magellan

@FalconMomot heh. Not surprised. Not at all.

@FalconMomot the rest of that story will be over beer someday.

Falcon Momot

@Magellan this was...

I asked him why he was making war on me basically

and just let him go without really giving my side of it

he spent half the time talking about how java was special and beautiful and the other half talking about how I was a junior inexperienced person who needs to defer to him more.

Magellan

which reminds me. I owe you a resume'. Now that I've finished working something like a thousand hours over the past 3 weeks.

Falcon Momot

you and everyone else!

man if it wasn't for this one dude my job would be amazing

instead I lay awake at night literally wondering how I can make him leave me alone

Magellan

Meh. I deal with people who don't understand that AMIs aren't configuration management.

Falcon Momot

06:50

aiee

at least I got to design all my project's AWS integration, for the part that integrates with AWS

though now I am on to a bit of it that needs to be done in java, and I'm terribly unhappy about it.

Magellan

There's a change to the system? Build a new gold AMI, have Jenkins compile up all the special flavors of it for each service, upload it to AWS and bounce all the instances with the new AMIs!

moron.

Falcon Momot

fortunately I'm not really a programmer so other tasks take priority over implementation

I'm beginning to think there is a strong possibility I might be happier as a lawyer

unfortunately law school literally costs as much as my apartment which I have yet to pay off

Magellan

It's really weird dealing with developers that don't even understand that DevOps requires 1) configuration management and 2) getting rid of Ops means they have to answer their phone when they get paged.

never before had I worked for an org where the Devs are resisting configuration management.

just crazy

Jenny D

Morning

Magellan

Good morning, M'Lady.

Even if it is already Monday there.

Jenny D

06:55

@Magellan It is, and I don't like it...

MichelZ

morning

Falcon Momot

@Magellan it's a term almost without meaning, but if you want the benefits people ascribe to it, the thing you do is hire developers whose job it is to automate your operations.

MichelZ

mondays are the worst kind of mondays?

Falcon Momot

those do not have to be the same developers as write the code...

Jenny D

@MichelZ Exactly

Journeyman Geek

06:56

this is awesome. I have gotten the little 10 inch screen set up. Annoyingly, it won't detect a signal from my fedora box if it isn't switched on before the fedora box.

Falcon Momot

I'm going to read some more of my friend's law textbooks and go to sleep

Journeyman Geek

law textbooks are very good for that

Magellan

@JourneymanGeek Indeed. Its success also requires that the mainline Devs not purposefully sabotage those other Dev's efforts though.

Falcon Momot

oh awesome tomorrow is not all day meetings day

Journeyman Geek

@Magellan 0_0. KEEP THE DEVS AWAY FROM THE LAW TEXTBOOKS.

Falcon Momot

06:58

I have more than 12 hours until my next meeting!

@JourneymanGeek no, law textbooks for everyone who can understand them!

Magellan

@JourneymanGeek No no no. Drop the law textbooks on the Java Devs head when they come through the door.

Falcon Momot

@Magellan aah, yes. then if that doesn't work, bring suits against them.

Journeyman Geek

@Magellan: True.

Falcon Momot

lawsuits are so much fun

MichelZ

just kill the java devs

Falcon Momot

07:00

@MichelZ yes, and then make sure to have an army of lawyers to rescue you.

Jenny D

@Magellan My sister in law once threw an MS Word manual at a coworker. Fortunately he ducked in time or she might have gotten into trouble...

MichelZ

a physical manual?

that must have been like 20 kilos

Journeyman Geek

@FalconMomot or a jury of your peers. No sysadmin would ever convict you.

Falcon Momot

@JourneymanGeek that's one strategy.

Journeyman Geek

however its spelled

Falcon Momot

07:01

the other is to sell the courts on a java system of some kind... nothing will ever get to trial until after you die.

Jenny D

@MichelZ Yes. She got tired of his asking questions of her all the damn time without even trying to find the answer first.

I like my SiL.

Journeyman Geek

@FalconMomot: inefficient. Inda's legal system does that, on typewriters.

Falcon Momot

neat

I got charged with speeding today :(

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Falcon Momot

for some reason there is a 60km/h zone on this wide open highway, and it's 80 before and 110 after it.

I think I'm going to go plea bargain it

MichelZ

07:02

that's how the get you!

Magellan

@FalconMomot you in Seattle still?

Falcon Momot

@Magellan this is in calgary

Jenny D

@FalconMomot Sounds like a good way for the relevant law enforcement organization to get money

Falcon Momot

yes it's most likely a ticket mine

Magellan

@FalconMomot ah. I figured we had a monopoly on that kind of idiocy

Journeyman Geek

07:03

Generally it is

Falcon Momot

in seattle, there aren't playground and school zones each with their own distinct set of rules that vary by city

Magellan

ok. time to get some sleep. g'nite Gents and Lady.

Falcon Momot

for example, recently in calgary, they changed school zones to be in effect until 2100h every day, and it's 30km/h in there

playground zones, however, only go until one hour after sunset

but outside this city, school zones are a couple hours in the morning and a couple hours at night

anyway, law books and sleep.

Jenny D

sleep well

Iain

07:31

G'day

Does this answer the lazy programmers question serverfault.com/a/626918/9517

@RoryAlsop you've changed !

Rory Alsop

@Iain Headlined a rock festival on Saturday - feeling happy :-)

Iain

@RoryAlsop which one ?

Rory Alsop

The Orkney Rock Festival in the far north of Scotland: facebook.com/video.php?v=10152418181484790

Iain

07:48

@RoryAlsop I keep meaning to get up to Orkney

Rory Alsop

@Iain how far south are you?

It's a wee hike. 6 hours from Edinburgh in the car, plus an hour on the boat. Or 45 minutes in a plane from Edinburgh

Iain

@RoryAlsop Liverpool, 2 hrs south of the border

It's a long way and bloody expensive too

Rory Alsop

@Iain Ahh - well, it will obviously get more difficult soon, when we ring scotland with razor wire and fences under the new regime :-P

Iain

@RoryAlsop yeah good luck with that

Rory Alsop

Orkney is beautiful, though. Worth having on your bucket list either for the scenery, archaeological sites and whisky, or for the more extreme sports, like cliff diving, scuba, kite surfing and surfing

@Iain I live in terror that the Yes voters might win

Iain

07:52

@RoryAlsop it would be scenery and archaeology for me, the whisky is likely too smokey.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

4

Rory Alsop

@Iain The Highland Park and Scapa whiskies are not like Islay ones. Much lighter. But yeah, the stone age and viking sites are utterly amazing. I visited the 'new' dig at Ness of Brodgar. 4500 years old, and it's a full on settlement with a temple (probably) next to the Ring of Brodgar (which makes Stonehenge look like a Spinal Tap toy)

@DennisKaarsemaker genius!

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@RoryAlsop ooh, highland park 18

Iain

@RoryAlsop I really haven't engaged with the independence debate, it's not like I can influence it. The downside for me is we get to be a Tory country without all the Scot's MPs

Rory Alsop

@Iain hahahaha. The downside for me in Scotland is the voters who see England as 'the enemy' who we require 'freedom' from' just might win... gaaah

Iain

07:58

@RoryAlsop history is a strange thing - some people never move on

MichelZ

uuuh, single malt whisky's

I like

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@Iain damn those bloody romans/vikings/french!

Iain

@DennisKaarsemaker What did the Romans ever do for us ... ?

Jenny D

@DennisKaarsemaker You rang?

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@JennyD I didn't know you were french :)

Jenny D

08:09

@DennisKaarsemaker Well, I'm fairly sure some of my ancestors were to blame for Normandie...

First time I visited some English friends, we were driving from Ipswich to Nottingham. I mentioned that unlike in Sweden there are almost no houses built from wood, they're all stone or brick. My friend answered "Well as soon as we built something of wood you buggers came and burned it down!" You English people have long memories...

5

Iain

@JennyD History is a strange thing, some people never move on

RobM

Today's official solution to all problems the helldesk bring to me: "Fire, and lots of it."

Jenny D

@RobM Sounds about right

MichelZ

@RobM you hang out too much with @HopelessN00b

RobM

it does work surprisingly well. IT's either solving everything or they're not bringing new problems to me any more and either way that's good

so how is everyone else's monday so far?

Jenny D

08:14

@RobM I get the same result when I answer questions with "You're doing it wrong, try doing it right instead!"

@RobM It seems I might get to spend some time with another client, imlementing PKI/CA stuff, which I really want to do. So I'm confidently expecting to get told it won't happen since it's Monday.

RobM

be an optimist about the interesting work?

We have a new wireless system built around aruba clearpass. I've produced instructions for staff and students on how to connect and we're getting lots of feedback that "It doesn't work" or "It's too difficult to use". So far, 99% of these problems has been related to not following the instructions.

Jenny D

@RobM We'll see if it works out, it's a bit of a 15-puzzle with moving people around

MichelZ

@RobM isn't that always how it is?

Jenny D

@RobM I would have been surprised if it were less

RobM

I'm not surprised, just fed up with dummies.

I'd actually be less bothered if it was a real fault, or something dumb I had written in the instructions.

MichelZ

08:21

@RobM are you first level support?

RobM

@MichelZ nope, senior sysadmin, but with 3200 users and 5 it people, it's a bit fluid here

I write a lot of documentation for 1st line support and for users

because if I didn't then it wouldn't get done.

MichelZ

and 1st line can't go through the doc with the user before they call you?

Dennis Nolte

@RobM totally shit, as usual for a monday, DB work ~6 hours on sunday did not go as planned, and i need to do manual labor for at least some 10 hours today/tomorrow.. ye great..

Jenny D

@RobM At a guess, the docs you write will be actually good. But if you can punt it to the 1st line support to write the docs then they will also be the ones to handle the complaints about the docs...

RobM

oh yes, 1st line are going through the doc, but they still book it as a call for the stats and I'm tracking the stats for calls related to the wireless network because it's a major upgrade to our old wireless network and I own both the project for that upgrade and all the infrastructure in general

Dennis Nolte

08:23

@JennyD only when you have good 1st level support you can let them write the docs in my opinion.

RobM

@DennisNolte what fun :-\

Jenny D

@DennisNolte true, although some of them will actually learn from first writing and then getting the complaints....

MichelZ

aren't users fun?

3

RobM

I'd rather train them then have them write the docs for the end users as a further training opportunity but like I said, if I don't write the docs I know they probably won't get written at all.

Jenny D

08:37

@MichelZ No. No, they are really not.

faker

ah isn't it nice: "since the operations team doesn't have enough time to support us, we want to establish our own cfg management system using ansible" -_-

2

Dennis Nolte

@faker instead of supporting the OPs to get more people, naaa..

faker

how about hiring more ops? Maybe establishing one more system we have to operate once you leave the company is not all that bright?

RobM

lets cure the symptoms instead of addressing the problem. What could possibly go wrong?

faker

we are using Puppet, we run the infrastructure for that and support it. If you are a developer and can't figure out how to extend existing manifests you are in the wrong job.

MichelZ

08:49

what do windows people use for configuration management?

RobM

SCCM

MichelZ

and for the smaller shops?

RobM

May god have mercy on their souls.

MichelZ

also, for a server-only environment?

RobM

also, powershell desired state configuration

MichelZ

08:50

yeah, I was thinking about giving PS DSC a shot

RobM

though in my experience the smaller shops that sort of product is aimed at are the least likely to have people on staff who are comfortable with powershell

but then we all need to be learning new stuff in the job right?

MichelZ

I'm comfortable with PS, not a problem

:)

RobM

Yep. I never used to be but then we're making a point of using it where possible to improve that. Again, move forwards or die in this trade...

MichelZ

it's just damn easy to automate boring stuff

gets me more free time to do other stuff

i even hooked my scripts up to a webpage, where people can do stuff on their own

RobM

yep. We did a major restructure of the IP address schema here and I used powershell to automate creating all our new DHCP scopes - we have about 50 or 60

MichelZ

08:52

without giving them access to the machines

Dennis Nolte

09:31

in case of an argument metric vs imperial, bring up the "SBW(standard butt width)" .. slashdot these days..

faker

oh man, a consultant migrated a incoming sendmail server to postfix. Apparently he didn't turn on STARTTLS on the new one. Now we get a letter from German government because we are breaching data protection law.

MichelZ

@faker they send letters? NICE!

Mathias R. Jessen

@MichelZ Well, they can't send it to the postfix server :P

faker

@MichelZ yes, but seems like it's by the state agency. So could be different in every state

MichelZ

@MathiasR.Jessen that was not the point... the point is they try to get you secure. very nice "feature" of the government :)

@MathiasR.Jessen any PS DSC insights?

faker

09:42

@MichelZ there is even a fine if you don't fix it

Mathias R. Jessen

That kinda was my point... Have fooled a bit with DSC in the lab, read some of the docs and been to >10 livesessions talking about it, but haven't had the chance to implement it anywhere yet :(

MichelZ

:(

i'll try it out then

Mathias R. Jessen

One of the local user group members here in DK hosted a talk about his practical experience implementing it recently, I think he put it up somewhere... give me a sec

RobM

veryspecialcomputers.com

3

Mathias R. Jessen

Naah, it's all in danish

@MichelZ If you're planning a large-scale roll-out, be sure to read this: systemcentercentral.com/…

MichelZ

09:49

thx

dawud

10:10

morning

RobM

morning

Mathias R. Jessen

noon

RobM

$time_of_day

Jenny D

10:35

hey

Dan

10:55

Hi all

Chopper3

11:07

Howdy peeps

MichelZ

howdy

Nick

11:26

Im wondering if I should install znc on my VPS or not

Journeyman Geek

lol

I personally don't regret doing that.

Its pretty useful if you're an IRC addict

Nick

@JourneymanGeek well point is im gonna have to install from source and manually check for updates

the repos are wayyy outdated

Journeyman Geek

@Nick: Yeah, they are

@RobM wow, such craftmanship

funny thing is, other than the case, that's a pretty good system

Nick

11:45

runs make as root

Journeyman Geek

11:55

0_0

Nick

Seriously I was looking at tutorials on how to configure ZNC and one of them is running make as root 0.0

Journeyman Geek

what distro?

Nick

debian

Journeyman Geek

ahh

I used this jcsi.ms/posts/setup-znc but built my own since the repo version suckled quite badly

(and used checkinstall rather than make install since I'm a lazy git

HopelessN00b

Ugh. One of our file servers got cryptolockered over the weekend. I should just call off dead the rest of the week. :(

cole

12:10

@HopelessN00b doh.

Mathias R. Jessen

@HopelessN00b You should start restoring those backups is what you should ;)

HopelessN00b

Yeah. 60 GB of files, restoring over a T1. Shoot me now.

Bob

@HopelessN00b Ah, the wonderful cloud.

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: might be faster to copy it in a USB drive, and drive over

Nick

waiting for DNS to propagate... worse than watching the grass grow

Journeyman Geek

12:20

@Nick: Time for a swordfight?

Sysadmin1138 Expounds

SysAdmin1138 Expounds: Hiring for bias

posted on September 08, 2014 by SysAdmin1138

I read yet another article on bias in in-person interviews lately. This comes as no surprise, bias is incredibly hard to overcome in hiring processes which is why US Civil Service hiring procedures look so arcane. The money-quote is this...

Nick

@JourneymanGeek I think its time to get some food for me :p

HopelessN00b

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, but I don't see me driving 700 miles for someone else's benefit.

Nathan C

12:37

@Nick ZNC runs as root because it chroot()s itself

It's the same reason why you'd run mysql/apache/etc

Nick

@NathanC I run it as a seperate user

just to be safe

Nathan C

Yeah, you can force it into a non-root user if you want

Nick

@NathanC didnt really need to do anything just make, sudo make install and then just config and run znc as the user

Nathan C

@Nick Ah. It's been a few years since I've touched IRC bouncers in general, so maybe they wisened up a bit too :P

Nick

Looking for a CMS/blog for personal website... any ideas(strictly no PHP)

MichelZ

12:47

html?

Nick

@MichelZ I saw that comming... idk I might made a html tempelate :p

MichelZ

orchard (.net based)

everything else is php based :D

Nick

I would use something php based... but its total pain to maintain

MichelZ

why?

Nick

@MichelZ its php...

MichelZ

12:51

yes, but what's the pain to maintain?

sudo up2date or whatever

done

Nick

@MichelZ also from the point I install php security goes out the window(usually)

Just not fond of php :p

Bleeding Fingers

im not sure if i could ask this question on sf. so im asking it rather here. My email provider/admins say that it's strictly prohibited to provide your login credentials to 3rd party. Well, I knew that. But they reiterated that when I asked how to configure gmail (pop3) to fetch mails from their server.

now my question is, isn't providing passwords to email client in the same line as providing login credentials to 3rd party?

Jenny D

@BleedingFingers That is not a question for SF, no.

@BleedingFingers No, it isn't. Your email client is on your computer. Google mail is on google's computers. Google is a third party. You are not.

Bleeding Fingers

that's clear enough.

Thanks.

btw, any relevant SE site for that question?

Michael Hampton

Don't give your Google Mail password to Facebook?

cole

12:57

This day, already.

Bleeding Fingers

@MichaelHampton is there an option of doing so?

Michael Hampton

@BleedingFingers Of course!

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