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03:00
@jscott Sacrelicious.....
@HopelessN00b I'm not a huge pasta fan, but I would devour that. Maybe shove some fries in there as well.
worth it?
It gets the shit installed quickly, doesn't break my fragile terminal server and pisses me off less.
@ewwhite I really don't know. I don't ever use project.
Who does?
03:02
Our PMs use it, and my tasks for each customer get pushed to my Outlook task lists, and when I mark them as "completed" it marks them as done in Project Server/SharePoint
@ewwhite Yes, that's exactly what you should be using for your one user who uses project, but can't install it on her desktop/workstation/thin client.
@HopelessN00b she doesn't even use project NOW
But, I myself have used it maybe two times in the last year. So I have no idea the pros/cons/gotchas of the Project Online thing
they're asking me to install it: URGENT!!
@jscott is that NSFW?
03:04
@Andrew Border line.
(sorry, I try not to click links on sites I don't know about...)
There's no porn, but plenty of text that could be nsfw, maybe
@ewwhite Yeah, lusers. What can you do? But that's as good as you're going to see for Project if they "need" Project specifically, and want it "now."
@HopelessN00b I could just say NO and that it'll cost maybe thousands of dollars to licensing it on a terminal server
@Andrew I get it. Summary: Porn star tweets "Whoever builds me the best Lego creation to put in my house gets a [bj]". Internet responds with fervor. Lawyers eventually step in a ruin everyone's fun. The end.
03:07
This is how I interact with project ^
Through a SharePoint web part
@MDMarra Is there an iPhone app?
@MDMarra You'd fit in at SWC wonderfully.
They'd pay you a shitload, too.
@ewwhite Seems like it would be easier and make them happier to say here's you O365 install, that'll be $45/month.
@jscott internet always delivers?
(I could probably get you $140k here.)
03:08
@Andrew In spades :)
@jscott I dont think so, but project server syncs tasks to your exchange task list and your task list is available on iPhone via activesync
@ewwhite How much of that is hazard pay for the weather and the locals
@MDMarra Is that a Sharepoint plugin to Project server?
@HopelessN00b Yeah, Project Server has a SharePoint web part
@MDMarra They're integrated with Project a lot of custom Sharepoint work and all of that...
Right now it's SharePoint 2013 and Project Server 2010 (?) but it will be Project Server 2013 soon
03:09
and they're expanding their cloud practice
CLOUD
$140k... suburbs...
It's like, -50000000f there
@MDMarra Yeah, I haven't used Project server since the 2007/2008 version. (Or was it 2005?) I thought it was awesome back then, honestly.
@ewwhite oooohh public cloud
I don't have any public cloud chops. I'm all private cloud, baby
Just sayin'... if you want to be Chicago.
remember goatmale...
I did not care for Gravity... The action and suspense is great, but the giant "F*ck You!" it throws at science and the laws of physics in every single scene get old, real old.
Chicago worked out well enough for Al Capone... but I think Chicago just feels wrong these days, given the lack of zoot suits and tommy guns. :(
@HopelessN00b hipsters have brought them back.
03:14
The zoot suits, maybe. None of the hipsters I've seen carry full-auto SMGs around with them, though.
Shame too... if the hipsters did, maybe they'd get into it with the street gangs, eliminate each other and make wide swaths of many American cities habitable again.
:(
I moved to a hipster neighborhood
And my wife and I just went to a Warby Parker showroom to get her some new glasses.
My condolences.
I guess it means you're making mad money, though, so that's good news.
@HopelessN00b I ain't got no job.
Yeah, the side gig got good enough that you don't need one... kinda different from not having a job. :p
Oh yeah... that.
@Andrew hah ai read that backblaze article, and I took it all as anecodotal
People put too much faith in random blog postings
I still see those fucking Backblaze pods being touted as massive data warehousing solutions. They're just not
You can't put 40 5400RPM SATA drives on expanders into a single chassis and expect anything above a trickle of throughput
@MarkHenderson I had that problem myself (a trickle of throughput), but it turned out to be a swollen prostate. A few anti-inflamatories cleared it up right quick.
@MarkHenderson I took it more as "here is some idea of what consumer-grade HDD you could buy"... and Seagate was (seemingly) very bad. What they didn't tell us was they were using 8 year old drives and had huge failure rates.
@MarkHenderson Those are port multipliers... Using SAS Expanders with some good controller cards would significantly increase throughput. Though, I suspect they plain don't care are 99.99999% data probably gets written once and never touched again.
@ChrisS Right, that one
04:04
@ChrisS Isn't that the general use case for "backups?"
Anyway it's more akin to AWS Glacier than an Equallogic
Not to say that the Backblaze blogs should be taken as storage gospel, but for the backup use-case, they seem to be more useful than just "anecdotal" to me.
naw... still shitty. I had a few of them
yeah, a few jobs ago
04:06
@HopelessN00b Only if you break the "DEL" key off your users' keyboards.
2
@HopelessN00b Ehh, I dunno. They're still just one datapoint. A big one, but still just one
@ChrisS Right, but that's a bad solution. Attack the source of the problem. Break the users' fingers instead.
@ewwhite Shitty like SuperMicro vs "real" server hardware, or shitty as in even worse than SuperMicro?
@HopelessN00b FAR worse than supermicro
but I'm a snob
I like my SuperMicro gear that I have at home. Makes great SOHO kit.
Good to know.
04:11
Speaking of snobs, has anyone slummed it with the Ubuqiti EdgeMAX routers?
On paper they look really good. And at $100 for the baby model it looks like it might be worth a try
@MarkHenderson our QLD sister org uses them
@Andrew Do they like them?
yep
think so
By Ubnt's own admission they're just debian on a MIPS processors
they mentioned them to us when they were visiting, so I presume so
04:12
But they're so cheap
But they're also just a router
yeah
@MarkHenderson Never used that, have used other Ubiquiti stuff in the past, never had a single issue getting out of the device whatever was promised.
@ChrisS THey promise a full 1Gbps per port which seems like a big promise. Cisco charge tens of thousands of dollars to get a full gigabit per port
Although the Cisco models probably have much more advanced ACLs etc. Still, for $100 I think I might try one out
It's a Broadcom chip...
@ChrisS Is that good or bad?
I know the Broadcom 802.11ac chips have a serious bug, but that's about it
04:22
Both. Broadcom pretty much leads the industry in features, but also bugs.
They're not typically open source friendly either. Many of the drivers they release are hamstrung, incomplete, "go out of their way to comply with the GPL but also f- the community"
Am I a bad person for wanting to downvote a post cause of who posted it?
@ChrisS: I think the only OEMs I've found have been good about that are intel and ralink
Atheros used to be ok until Qualcomm got a hold of them. It's been nothing but a blackhole since.
@JourneymanGeek Yes (but not really)
@ChrisS Back in the early 00's Atheros were the only chipset with decent BSD support. I remember that
(post by everyone favourite SE troll, got moved from here ;p)
Buying a card just because it worked with FreeBSD (after re-compiling the kernel)
04:33
I still do
@MarkHenderson: I remember having to do that with linux and wifi adaptors.
04:48
@MarkHenderson I selected my RAID card mostly on a known good track record with FreeBSD (and price and features ofc)
SO I guess people still select products based on support
@MarkHenderson It ought not be too hard to get 1Gbps line rate on three ports...
05:03
@Hennes I still pick RAID cards based on what I can get good kernel support for
(Linux or BSD doesn't matter - there are some cards with shit support on both and usually that's a sign it's a shit card :-)
@MichaelHampton They also offer an 8-port variant
@MarkHenderson Yes, but I don't think that's the $100 model
@MichaelHampton No
But Cisco want 10x that price for their 3-port model (2911)
Although sure, the Cisco is way more flexible
And by Cisco's own admission a 2911 can only actually do 180Mbps
Ubnt are claiming that their 3-port model can actually do 1Gbps, which I find hard to believe
If you want a Cisco that can actually do 1gbps per port of routing you need to go to the 7200 with add-in cards
Hmm. Conflicted.
on topic OR off-topic? Part of me want to answer: "Yes".
05:11
0
Q: OpenWRT on topic or off?

Evan CarrollHow is OpenWRT off topic on ServerFault? Is Cisco IOS offtopic? I'm totally confused. This site has a really nebulous purpose that needs some serious refinement. OpenWRT is linux distribution that I use to run a NAS platform for a business use. This is from the OpenWRT homepage OpenWrt is de...

Obvious troll is trolling, obviously?
Yeah
I'm finding dupes to close as
Done
Yippie!
On a related note, I miss him being question-banned here.
Meh
He's pervasive but recently harmless
Well, that's an unexpected turn of events.
Someone buy EC a label maker.
05:22
@MichaelHampton Why? Those labels don't stick to the users very well.
@HopelessN00b: we could lace the sticky side with neurotoxins.
Easier just to use pieces of paper and staple them to the users' foreheads.
@HopelessN00b No, I want to beat him with it until he starts labeling his equipment.
Ah, well, a good cause, but one for which I am useless, regrettably.
05:37
@MichaelHampton: Then he'll start asking labeller questions on SF
lol
We are a business of under 200 PC's that are looking at implementing preventative maintenance tasks such as regular imaging [...]
JesusfuckingChrist.
looking at? You could probably do that with tomtom's phone.
I think with that I'm gonna sack out, and brace myself for the nightmares that are bound to come my way from hearing regular imaging as a preventative maintenance task.
Hell, my phone can do that.
05:54
I like tumblr's idea of read-only servers
actually, that makes a lot of sense
06:07
If you need to push out a change, just reprovision them all
@HopelessN00b prevents bitrot I guess....
@JoelESalas Welcome to the cloud.
06:46
-3
Q: OpenWRT on topic or off?

Evan CarrollHow is OpenWRT off topic on ServerFault? Is Cisco IOS offtopic? I'm totally confused. This site has a really nebulous purpose that needs some serious refinement. OpenWRT is linux distribution that I use to run a NAS platform for a business use. This is from the OpenWRT homepage OpenWrt is de...

you know, this does raise an interesting (though totally unrelated) dilemma
imagine for a moment that someone was willing to support stacks of frankendevices running openwrt on mips, as a cisco alternative.
if cisco lost small business to that, it would demonstrate just how overpriced they are.
the dilemma follows: would that actually have the effect of forcing cisco's prices down for small business gear?
@FalconMomot: at most on the short run
@JourneymanGeek after 5 iterations you'd have an antitrust case.
@FalconMomot: I'd argue that anyone buying cisco for a small business may have a reason other than price/performance
(and there are companies that do that already)
3 hours ago, by Mark Henderson
Speaking of snobs, has anyone slummed it with the Ubuqiti EdgeMAX routers?
^ thats a better point of comparison
I might pick a couple of those up, but more for testing the processor than routing.
and the question EC asked dosen't entirely make sense, outside the context of the answer
07:03
obviously, it's EC.
nothing he says has any value whatsoever.
Thats almost how I feel about the subject, but with less tailwaggery, and more massive grinders.
I think people who see that video severely underestimate the unhappiness of the cat.
also:
 
1 hour later…
08:21
G'day
08:49
oi
Dan
Dan
09:01
Morning
My randomly purchased SAS drives came - now I just need something to do with them!
dominos?
Dan
Dan
Ouch, no
buy a server to put them in?
Dan
Dan
At some point, aye
I tried to do some Lua coding last night...failed miserably.
09:10
@Dan: how does one randomly purchase drives?
last-second bid
Dan
Dan
Yeah, that - I didn't really think I'd win
@tombull89 Why on Earth would you start there, it looks horrid
@Dan because that's what the scripts for Just Cause 2 Multiplayer use
Dan
Dan
@tombull89 Oooh
09:21
@FalconMomot what are frankendevices?
@syneticon-dj you cobble together hacks.
@syneticon-dj: jerryrigged stuff
like using a raspi for a nas ;p
they are like hackintoshes, and DD-WRT devices
@FalconMomot: I wouldn't consider DD-WRT a franken device
well slightly less so than a rooted cellphone
I see. But OpenWRT runs perfectly on mass-manufactured gear, why would you hack something together?
Or is it hacked already because you've replaced the firmware?
09:26
(Extenal HDD, Powered USB hub, raspi, all held together with elastic bands from asparagus)
@JourneymanGeek how did you manage to take a picture of my workplace?
@syneticon-dj: you work under my desk?
I already wondered why it does not have the regular ceiling height.
Anyway, I don't quite understand the OpenWRT vs Cisco discussion. Cisco's main business is switches and core routers. Nothing an OpenWRT build would replace.
unless of course you're tying together 7 5-port routers to build a 24-port "switch".
Dan
Dan
09:32
@syneticon-dj I think you're wrong on Ciscos main business - they do a hell of a lot more than switches and carrier grade routing
are you looking at my network? ;p
Dan
Dan
For me, it's not so much OpenWRT vs Cisco, but cobbled together vs fit for purpose with support and a proven track record
(I kid. I have a perfectly good reason for having 2 consumer routers and a homeplug AV switch on the same net)
@Dan: thats the kicker
you pay, more often for support and a track record, unless you're running things on a shoestring.
Dan
Dan
@JourneymanGeek For home, it's all fun and games and we all have to make do a little bit. Any kit I get will have to be talking over a wireless bridge to a switch because I can't run cables - that's just what I have to do
I also run a wireless bridge from the main wifi access point to my dev lab in the attic
09:34
@Dan: same reason I use homeplug. My dad's business currently runs out of the apartment, and I dare say we have a better set up than we did when we had a seperate office.
I'd kill for an actual budget though, more so than an actual salary ;p
I recently dreamt of building up a rack in the desert. It did not need to even have a cover as it is was never raining there. Somehow the issues of power, connectivity and cooling were solved - probably by cooling down the desert and running a tight mesh of interconnecting tubes through the sand dunes. After I woke up, I figured, it must have been Quatar.
Dan
Dan
Mwaha
or maybe you played Dune II as a kid
@pauska I did in fact :)
Dan
Dan
On the other hand - a couple of big generators and a satellite uplink could get you a running DC in somewhere cold and dry-ish
09:38
@Dan bad latency. But possible of course. Plus, you can build photo-voltaic batteries all around to power your stuff.
Dan
Dan
@syneticon-dj Yeah - does a satellite laser link exist yet? If not, why not?
@Dan Are lasers meant to run faster than microwave radiation?
for hosting stuff like web sites or streaming video, surely that would be OK?
my boss's daughters primary school uses a satellite link.
You could shoot up a couple of mirrors up in the sky. And use them as rebounds. Would take some time to figure out the angle, though.
you might be able to cool it by really deep underground heat-pipes ;p
09:41
@tombull89 it's around 800 ms to anything in the world. If this is okay for your applications, then why not.
Dan
Dan
@syneticon-dj You know what - I have no idea what I was thinking
But the bandwidth will remain a problem I suppose. Unless you're Shuttleworth and can afford an own sattelite.
@Dan ;-)
Dan
Dan
@syneticon-dj Yeah, I remember the bad old days of satellite and it was dire - but a friend fitted it and was really impressed with how much you could get away with on modern stuff. Streaming movies and everything
It wasn't reliable, though
I thought satillite was high bandwidth down, but shitty bandwidth up?
I thought it was high speed high latency
09:46
@tombull89: and you need dialup or something for your upstream
@tombull89 It's directed microwave really. And you only get the channels your provider assigns to you. So the bandwidth basically depends on what piece of spectrum you are paying for.
@JourneymanGeek not necessarily. There are sattelite uplinks, but they need to be really carefully directed.
@syneticon-dj: and considerably more expensive?
Dan
Dan
10:10
@HopelessN00b This may be a bit education centric, but I see no problem with regular imaginf of machines. Your imaging process should be solid enough for this and all data should be centralised. If I was a network manager and had the time, I'd probably rebuild student PC's at least a couple of times a year
We rebuild all of our PCs and Macs, about 1800 machines, every year. It's the best damn way I know of to ensure that everything is clean, working, not to mention it stress tests the workstations and shows up faults that users haven't reported.
Our machines only get re-imaged as and when they need it :(
only takes a few weeks during the summer holiday time, and as we have a 4 year replacement schedule we'd have to image 1/4th of the machines either way
4 year replacement schedule? All our desktops will be 4 years old as of July.
To be fair, they've lasted well, of the 300 or so we've got had issues with three of them - one fan, one motherboard issue, and one dead hard disk.
They do grumble a bit with graphic-intensive stuff, but with shared/non dedicated graphics they do OK.
Dan
Dan
@RobM Exactly - maybe we're a special case though
10:24
heh. I think 5 years makes sense, but most of our 'work' systems are hitting 7
ironically, the systems I run personally are mostly newer
grumblegrumble SMEs
@tombull89 actually that's a fair point, the speed of progress has slowed. The difference between 2014 and 2010 isn't as vast as the difference between 2004 and 2010
@dan I think education is something of a special case, we have a lot more software installed and machines do get caned harder I think.
@RobM: I sort of think that we're hitting the point where systems are generally fast enough
the main thing to worry about is attrition, more than lacking grunt
Yes. Also, as much as we sneer about "cloud all teh things" here at times, a lot of software that previously would have to run locally is now done through a web browser and a nice web front end to a server somewhere else and that improves the viability of older machines too.
Dan
Dan
@RobM Yep, and the multi user nature of machines means a lot more consideration to things, too.
Bob
Bob
10:42
@tombull89 Four years? Will be finally/hopefully/maybe getting rid of the last few XP machines in the next couple of months.
Before my time, most likely from around '06
@Bob we were on 7 from the start. 32-bit 7 on machines with 4GB RAM, but Windows 7 nevertheless.
Dan
Dan
@RobM Just joined the Professional Contractors Group - it's getting real now! Any luck on your hunt?
Bob
Bob
@tombull89 Well, at least you can still run all those 16-bit programs! ;)
A wild Rory appeared!
11:12
@dan not anything that quite tickles me just right yet. What about you, starting to get some things lined up I hope!
@RobM There's a job here..
@TomO'Connor where's here and how much does it pay?
Dan
Dan
@RobM Having the odd conversation with recruiters, but still too early for them. But I've got a project w/c 17th Feb which has some nice CV fodder, plus the fact I've finished the Citrix exam track; so, I'll be re-uploading my CV that week and then hitting it hard.
 09:52 < jreid> 1995 - At a neighborhood Italian restaurant Rasmus Lerdorf
               realizes that his plate of spaghetti is an excellent model for
               understanding the World Wide Web and that web applications
               should mimic their medium. On the back of his napkin he designs
               Programmable Hyperlinked Pasta (PHP). PHP documentation remains
               on that napkin to this day.
3
@TomO'Connor that would actually explain so very much about web code
fingers crossed for you @dan
11:15
@RobM Malvern, Worcestershire. --. . hoping to have a proper version soon.. Pay.. I'm not sure. I'll ask.
Dan
Dan
@RobM Thanks bud
@TomO'Connor not really my thing tbh, looking for more of a team lead role than that
@RobM Fair enough.
thanks for the thought though, sorry should have said that already :)
Dan
Dan
@TomO'Connor I, uh, know a contractor who is available from March if you need some cover ;)
11:19
@Dan We're not big on contractors, plus it's a new role, not a cover role.
If you'd like to rethink your decision and join us as a full time member though..
Dan
Dan
Nope, waay too invested now :D
(I'll call you in April :( )
Dan
Dan
11:33
@TomO'Connor Did you ever contract/freelance, I forget
@Dan Yeah.
I did about 8 months, and still get offers from my usual suspects.
@TomO'Connor that's part of a larger document on the history of programming languages
It was more network consulting.
Dan
Dan
How come you went perm?
@Dan regular money
Dan
Dan
11:36
Ah, yeah, odd-job consultancy vs contracting I guess?
@Dan I don't like contracting. It's actually just following around with a mop and bucket.
1987 - Larry Wall falls asleep and hits Larry Wall's forehead on the keyboard. Upon waking Larry Wall decides that the string of characters on Larry Wall's monitor isn't random but an example program in a programming language that God wants His prophet, Larry Wall, to design. Perl is born.
Plus, it's possible to spend a disproportonate amount of time looking for the next gig.
Dan
Dan
@TomO'Connor Yeah - I'm hoping the money will equal out
If I can break even but only work 8 months, I'll be happy enough with that
11:44
I just couldn't do it any more.
Because the expectations of contractors is immense
because you cost so much
I'd rather work at my own steady pace, than be forced to march to the beat of someone elses drum.
Dan
Dan
See, I think I've already been indoctrinated into the contract work style because of consulting
But here's the thing.
With the exception of 1 job, I was never ever hired as a consultant. Just a hired broom.
Dan
Dan
When I'm on site, the customer is paying at least double what I'd expect to make contracting on my own - so I'm pretty used to being seen as being expensive. Though, to be honest, I never had an issue with people expecting more - I work may more 'to rule' on site, than I do in the office. 9 - 5 with an hour for lunch, the only exception being when I fuck up
I get that, I just didn't like the attitude.
Dan
Dan
To be honest, my experience with contractors is that they're mostly lazy fucks with limited investment. I don't wish to be like that, but from what I've seen, I won't have to work too hard to stand out
11:49
@Dan you've got mail. Something I don't want/have time to do.
Dan
Dan
@TomO'Connor Cheers mate - appreciate the thought, but having scan read it's a bit too LAMP for me. I'm hoping that Citrix is going to pay for my bread
@Dan XenApp or XenServer?
Dan
Dan
@TomO'Connor XenApp, XenDesktop and XenServer, but only when combined with the first two really
(Cos compared to HyperV and ESXi it's a bag of shite)
hah.
I've never got on with XenServer.
Dan
Dan
11:53
@TomO'Connor Nobody ever does
We're still rolling out an old version because we spent a lot of time learning the hard way and compiling a mahoosive list of tweaks to get it stable
Like - have you ever known a Hypervisor kernel panic and reboot just because you booted a few too many virtual desktops at once....
ok... you know how I moaned a few times about how hyperv wasn't quite as good as vmware? It's never kernel panicked on me just for starting up a bunch of vms.
Dan
Dan
@RobM At this point in time, HyperV and ESXi are pretty much thoroughbred racehorses competing for first place over the last 100 yards. XenServer has stumbled and fell over, but is limping in behind some 5 minutes later
Dan
Dan
12:16
It's legit to ask my current colleagues for recommendations on LinkedIn isn't it?
Makes it look like I didn't get sacked at least
@Dan yeah, i think so
Dan
Dan
@TomO'Connor Good, cos I just sent the e-mail
Dan
Dan
Like it or loathe it, recruiters and the like are all over LinkedIn now
Too bad none of them ever look at my profile!
I'm just applying for internships though. Probably not worth their time.
Dan
Dan
12:24
@Chase Well, it's one of those - if you're a student you're less searchable
Yep. Just applied to my 64th and still no luck.
Dan
Dan
Ouch :(
Sorry to hear that
Honestly, it's starting to become a contest for who has the subtly meanest rejection letter. Only heard back from 20 though.
They say your first job search in the industry is always the hardest, so there's that.
Anonymous
Anonymous
"i fixed my windows server, code by code"
Anonymous
12:30
what the f* is that guy doing
got to love what DPM does to its hard disks
@Chase This is very very true.
Dan
Dan
@Chase It's 100% true - it took me months and lots of applications.
@RobM Haha, yeah - that horrified me the first time I saw it
job searches suck. Especially as the economy has only recently started to improve, around here at least
12:34
I always had the impression that all programmers, even college kids get fought over like crazy. Apparently not.
Dan
Dan
Definitely not
At least I'm not desperate yet.
@Chase: my brother has a masters, and close to 8 years of official experience. He's sent out 68 applications. He's had ONE interview, after which, no reply.
a lot of employers are just either picky, or putting out applications for local folk, claiming no one's suitable, and hiring who ever's cheaper.
Dan
Dan
@JourneymanGeek That sounds more like his CV could be improved or perhaps he's not applying to jobs that are a good fit?
@JourneymanGeek: Wow. What location?
12:36
@Dan: seems to be the trend here in some industries in general
@Chase: singapore
Dan
Dan
:(
@Dan: he reworked his CV, and is tweaking it
(though, he's getting lots of help, he'll get one, eventually. Has been looking for a year was on my dad's firm's books for most of that)
Yeah, I'm not too familiar with markets outside of the US. I'm lucky enough that I get to be right between Silicon Valley and Seattle.
(On the other hand, I was just told to get a job, and handed job ads for things that weren't a good fit)
@Chase: if you're a programming type, try to brush up the stuff you do. Some recruiters pay attention to SE sites, and github. Show em your stuff.
@JourneymanGeek: That's the plan. I'm finishing up an Android app that does interest most recruiters I've talked to.
Aside from that, I study loads of interview questions.
12:40
heh
one advantage I have, I'll be perfectly happy to move anywhere once I finish my degree
(which seems to be, at the moment, august, assuming I don't fail SM again)
(and I'm rather grumpy over that :/)
Same. I guess it's manageable to live in awful areas if you don't plan on staying.
I'm just not too picky over geography, and wouldn't mind travelling ;p
Awful for me would be deep Southern states. I don't think I could handle it with my west coast superiority complex :P
lol
I wouldn't mind there. I'd confuse the hell out of em
They have guns though. You don't want to confuse the people with guns.
12:48
@Chase: I know how to operate one.
that would confuse them even more.
Hah.

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