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6:00 PM
@Chopper3 but.. how does X2 relate to SFP+? A SFP+ module can fit, thats it?
Or let me ask, what do non-cisco vendors use instead of X2?
 
@pauska and typically newer 'features' come to the oldest type first. For example, we use a lot of wavelength-specific transcievers instead of 1550 for WDM, and initially we could only get wavelength-specific in Xenpak, but not X2
X2 and SFP+ are two different things, you can't plug one into the other
 
ah
and this is where my brain melts
 
@pauska, I think XFP are standard, or they might not have pluggable optics
@pauska, let me correct, by 'not plug one thing into the other' I mean you can't take a X2 module and put it in a SFP+ slot
 
@chopper3 so how is he going to connect that virtual connect to a switch with X2? SFP+ in one end and X2 in the other end?
 
@pauska there are X2 modules that hold one or two SFP/SFP+'s certainly
 
6:01 PM
the wavelength etc is the same?
 
You can absolutely go X2 slot - X2 module - fiber fiber fiber fiber fiber - SFP+ module - SFP+ slot
Ohhhhhh
the twingig things
 
if the wavelength/signalling is correct, I presume?
 
I thought those were xenpak size not X2 size
 
@Chopper3 Well, it IS over on SU, after all.
 
6:02 PM
But those are incredibly vendor and equipment specific
yeah the twingig adapter, that is correct
but that's really an edge-case workaround for the 4900 to turn a 10GE port into 2 fiber gige ports
 
@pauska the cisco 'twingig' modules is literally just an sfp/sfp+ holder, it just routes the wires to the X2 layout
 
@Chopper3 ah this explains it, I didnt know about those
 
one X2 = 2xSFP+ by the looks of it
 
the 4900m HAS to take X2 twingig adapters to do 10GbE SR LC
yes
 
6:04 PM
well let's be a little careful about SFP+
@Chopper3 to my knowledge you can't run 10GE using the twingig adapter
 
@Aaron "8-port (2:1) 10 Gigabit Ethernet (X2) half-card (Cisco TwinGig Converter Module compatible)"
from the 4900M product page
 
Right
it has 8 X2 ports
If you use the twingig adapter in one of those X2 ports, you get 2 GIGE ports
we have many many 4900s
 
@Aaron actually we're both right, there are native 10GbE X2's AND you can do 10GbE via twingig
 
@Chopper3 I agree on the x2 10GE modules (we have many of those too)
 
@Aaron I have a 3750 at home with two twingigs at 10GbE
 
6:06 PM
I really don't think you can do 10GE with twingig though
 
The TwinGig SFP Converter Module (Figure 2) converts a 10 Gigabit Ethernet X2 interface into two Gigabit Ethernet Small Form-Factor Pluggable (SFP) ports
Cisco SFP+ Transceiver Modules for Cisco OneX Converter Module
ok, so what is the "oneX" ?
 
actually you're right
 
You might be able to use a "SFP+" in the twingig "holes", but it's going to be addressed by the H/W as a gige port, not a 10GE port
 
6:08 PM
mine are X2-10GB-SR's
 
Don't expect to buy that X2->SFP converter and plug it into any random piece of hardware though
and a SFP+ is the same form factor as an SFP, just capable of 10G data rates (but obviously the hardware it's plugged into has to be 10G capable if you want to use it in that fashion - compared to an XFP, which is a little bit bigger, and obviously only goes into XFP-compatible cards
 
Really pains me to see astonishing bad answers to don't actually solve a problem get upvoted on SU.
 
I spotted an AWFUL one earlier today, linked it on here in fact
 
so what's the end of the story here? X2 can't convert to 10gig sfp+?
 
FlexFabric?
FlexFabric switches have the first two ports as FC only I think.
We ran into that problem and had to swap the FlexFabric modules for Flex10's
we didn't need the FC ports, but we sure needed the ethernet.
 
6:19 PM
@pauska no, soz, got my wires crossed - see what I did there....
 
"The Cisco OneX Converter Module is supported on all 10 Gigabit Ethernet modules of the Cisco Catalyst 4900M. The Cisco OneX converts an X2 interface into one SFP+ interface and uses the full range of Cisco SFP+ transceivers"
One X2 = One SFP+
@ewwhite are you catching this?
@Chopper3 har har
 
Oh, my apologies, thought you guys were talking about the HP bladechassis modules.
 
@PeterGrace No, it has 8 x SFP+ slots, all can be 10GbE but only the leftmost 4 can be 2/4/8Gb FC SFP/SFP+'s
 
One X2 into one SFP+ isn't exactly high density imho.. I'd go for copper :p
(not cx4 that is)
 
pfo
@pauska 10KBaseT ?
 
6:23 PM
no wait.. the 10gigbase-t is also 8 ports, so that wouldnt help at all
 
What the heck is this about? Static between devices in a rack?
 
oh cisco you silly boy, why arent you releasing SFP+ cards..
this is the same bullshit as QoS "standards"
 
@Chopper3 missed that one. Probably for the best, really...
 
everyone agree to make a standard, then a large company (like cisco) just goes ahead and create their own version
 
pfo
I really hate the 4900Ms
they are so 2004 :P
 
6:25 PM
* insert Canonical & Ubuntu screaming rant here *
 
nah, nice little switches
small companies (like mine) would get very far with 2x4900m's with just a single card in each
 
@Chopper3 You're talking about the FlexFabric switch? If so, I think you're mistaken, only because when we plugged in 1GB sfp's in some of the flexfabric ports, it didn't work, and the HP guys said we needed the Flex10 instead. Or was it just because we were trying to do 1GB instead of 10GB?
 
too bad they cost so horrendous much compared to other vendors
 
pfo
Nexus2K for L2 and Nexus 5K/Nexus7K is what you want nowadays
 
@pfo is it even possible to use nexus 2k switches without having 5k's at top?
 
pfo
6:29 PM
@pauska look at juniper 10G L2 switches - much cheaper when compared to cisco
@pauska well, not really :P
 
@pfo right.. so my point still stands :P
 
pfo
@pauska the juniper EX2K5 is really a nice L2 10G edge switch with full 10G wire speed switching on all it's ports.
the 4900M can only do 40Gbps to the fabric (the two upper slots).
 
@PeterGrace yes I was, ports 1-8 take 10GbE SFP+'s, ports 1-4 will also take 2/4Gb FC SFP's and 8Gb FC SFP+'s and ports 5-8 will also take 1GbE SFP's - is that ok?
 
40gbps fabric is more than I'll ever need
 
@pauska 2K's are L2 only iirc
 
6:30 PM
ok, not ever, but atleast in 5 years
@Chopper3 they're not even that from what I can read, as they're just extenders
 
yes, just meant no L3 in them
 
@Chopper3 That's what it was, then. we were using 5-8 for 1GbE SFP's in FlexFabric. The Flex10 takes all ports possible for 1GbE
 
pfo
@Chopper3 no, you really need Nexus 5K on your uplinks.
 
@pfo that's all we use, we have no 2K's
 
Anyone here know netapp?
like, really know it?
 
6:32 PM
sadly yes, well reasonably well
 
excellent.
 
pfo
@Basil i run a few of them
@Chopper3 the Nexus 2K is really a line card for the 5K
 
2 sec, taking screenshot
 
screenshot implies GUI, GUI on netapp sucks
 
(we wrote our own gui)
 
pfo
6:35 PM
@Chopper3 Nexus 5K can't do L3 either, sorry.
 
yeah well, so nexus is out of the question for us anyways, 5k's are way too expensive.. so either cisco 4900m's, or hopefully HP launches something.. but it's not going to be before 2013
 
 
35k operations PER SECOND?
holy mother of..
 
@pfo didn't think I said it could?
 
pfo
@pauska for any decent netapp that is like nothing ;)
 
6:36 PM
 
@pauska I'm still confused and I'm trying to make sure I answer the right question. 10GE is 10GE is 10GE, anything that talks it can be plugged via fiber into any other thing via fiber
 
pfo
@Chopper3 oh, sry.
 
this is a small part of our prod. I'll show you a cap of our main storage :P
later
 
pfo
@Aeron nope
 
Where you have to worry about compatibility issues at one end only is matching the optics/module type with the hardware blade/receptacles
 
pfo
6:37 PM
@pauska the midrange netapps can do 100K IOPS per head
 
basically, we have almost no reads or writes during the day, then we do backups at night. Our cache hit% stays above 90%
 
@Aaron or copper. :-)
 
@Basil BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE^WDISK CACHE!
 
@Aaron Nopers, HP kit moans if you use non-HP SFP's or SFP+'s - same for Cisco
 
copper 10GE is lame
 
6:37 PM
@voretaq7 disk cache in a SAN? erm..
 
we back up TBs of data- there's no way that it's all in cache
 
@Chopper3, "service unsupported-transciever" can work sometimes (on cisco)
 
I think ontap is lying to me.
 
@Basil readahead perhaps
 
ah yes, agreed, but then...well it's kind of unsupported :)
 
6:38 PM
unsupported is fine, until you call support..
 
@pauska that was my first thought, but I thought they didnt do that
 
pfo
@Basil netapp does aggressive read-ahead, so yes you can see 90%+ cache hits on sequential read load
 
@pauska sure.
 
@Basil The backups will be nice and sequential though right, so it's just doing really efficient look-aheads isn't it?
 
Oh, well that would explain it!
 
6:39 PM
@Basil ^
 
@Basil what do you back up to again? :)
 
@voretaq7 Nay. Controller cache.
 
I thought I remembered hearing that they didn't do readahead
 
@pfo great minds :)
 
pfo
@Basil it isn't - you don't say how large your IOPs are
 
6:39 PM
@voretaq7 data domain
@pfo I would imagine large blocks for the backups
 
we use all cisco all the time so I dont' look too carefully into any of the cross-vendor lock things tlike that
 
@pfo but we dont manage the backups, the DBAs do.
 
@pauska controller cache is probably more efficient (localized to the stuff being accessed by one box rather than trying to handle the entire SAN), but a write-back cache inside the SAN can be helpful
 
pfo
you can see that by running statit and others.
so yeah, 30K during backup or any other large read sequential load is "normal"
 
NetApp filers with data domain appliances.. EMC got a retarded step-child?
 
6:40 PM
@Basil .... do they ever do restore tests? DBAs (at least the ones I know) HATE restore tests...
 
pfo
@Basil i guess this is a 3X machine?
 
@voretaq7 heh, yes, we do a audited DR with our insurers twice a year
@pfo 3170, yeah
 
@voretaq7 sorry, I got my head stuck at write cache for uknown reasons (which you never use on disks in a SAN afaik)
 
pfo
yeah, that box can pull 100K IOPS and more from cache.
 
@pauska data domain was bought before it was EMC, but yeah, the only thing left on tape is the mainframe
 
6:42 PM
@Basil that's slang for "we tie them down and force them" isn't it? :)
 
@Basil You and your endless battles with that mainframe. How did the SAN quote go?
 
@pauska I don't use on-disk write caches period -- like my write caches to be battery backed :)
 
pfo
@Basil do you know "statit" ?
statit will tell you how much read-ahead blocks it head
 
0
Q: Expected login requests

contemplatingzombieI am running a web app on a LAMP server with 10GB RAM and quad cores. It serves about 170 login requests per second. Is this number right? Is there any way to inrecrease it?

 
pfo
in chained-blocks and in non-chained WAFL blocks (non sequential)
 
6:44 PM
I hate lamp
 
pfo
@ something like 32.21 blocks read 2474.05 blocks read-ahead
 
@voretaq7 haha, something like that
 
@Chopper3 I think lamps provide an awful nice ambiance. Not as room filling as an overhead, to be sure, but much more cozy.
 
@pauska Not submitted yet- probably later this year
 
@Chopper3 I hate questions from LAMP users
 
pfo
6:45 PM
@Chopper3 which part of it :P the L? the A? the M? and P? or the combo :P
 
@pfo not well- I looked up the command while researching this cache issue
 
pfo
start it before your load starts in advanced mode
 
@pfo And which P?
 
@pfo just that question
 
@Chopper3 There are no stupid questions... except that one
5
 
6:46 PM
@pfo I'll have to take a look at it
 
@pfo I don't like the M.
 
pfo
@Basil i use it frequently to debug performance issues
 
 
@voretaq7 I don't like your face.
 
pfo
@voretaq7 yeah the usual P and the M suck the most
 
6:47 PM
My snarky comment is probably going to ruin my election, but what the hell
 
@ScottPack I HATE DOLPHINS.
 
that last one is one of our four production boxes
 
@pfo I'm not a fan of the L either, but I can put up with it more than the P
 
pfo
@Basil i spoke to a guy at MasterCard about how much IOPS they pull for their data warehousing ...
@Basil and IOP figures without size are meaningless :P
 
@pfo 1 request per second. Framing size: 16 GB.
 
pfo
6:49 PM
@voretaq7 something like that :P
 
OK, it's 2012 right?
 
 
why does making bootable linux USB sticks still suck?
 
it's mixed workload
some small block, some large
 
Year of Linux on the desktop my shedding lizard!
 
pfo
6:51 PM
@voretaq7 dude, year of the linux desktop was in 2008, it sucks in 2012!
 
@pfo well... can it STOP SUCKING long enough to make a reliable bootable thumbdrive? :-)
 
pfo
@Basil what do you guys run for the mainframe? DS8K7/8?
 
@pfo Xp24000
 
pfo
so hitachi
(hp)
 
basically :)
We used to run our low priority stuff on EVA, but we only seem to get lemons from HP's EVA line. Now it's all on XP
 
pfo
6:53 PM
@Basil so you are at a bank?
 
no, railway
 
@voretaq7 whats your problem. What are you trying to boot? It seems to work generally OK to me.
 
it's a very conservative shop- we still use the smallest drives we can buy for the mainframe
 
pfo
and short-stroke them :P ?
 
heh, not that bad
we just put some SSD in for them, though
cherry picked a few DB2 tables and got a pretty respectable speed increase
 
6:57 PM
@Zoredache I think it's a unetbootin issue or something about this particular stick (HP Product) -- Stubbornly insists that it's "Missing operating system" when you try to boot from the USB stick
if I can't beat it into submission I may harass the U&L folks
 
Hey pfo, do you have a reference or something for statit? The closest I found was statit -b and statit -e and log your putty session
 
@voretaq7 Yeah, I've noticed that with some of my Lexar USB drives. The SanDisk works all the time though.
 
@tombull89 my shitty 2GB MicroCenter drive works perfectly :)
 
pfo
@Basil yeah it's starting and stoping it. after that you get the averaged results to the console.
 
7:04 PM
@pfo Do you know whether this introduces a noticeable performance degradation?
 
@Chopper3 It's weird, I swear Mark left a note on his profile telling him to get his flag weight up and a bit more meta activity, and it's gone from 140 > 500+ ...although there seems to be a lot of comment culling
 
@Chopper3 iono
 
pfo
@Basil or you can run stats which will offer quite a lot of disk and system level stuff and WAFL metrics you need to pull from SSH into a flat file and run gnuplot or something like that
 
LOL:

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pfo
@Basil but the most simple metric is to check disk reads vs network output
 
7:09 PM
I'll take option 4 (ridicule you publicly), followed by 3.
 
I'm not worried about the performance of the box atm, just trying to get my head around the toolbox
I think we'll be considering a netapp 6000 series for our open systems this year...
 
pfo
yeah, netapp is crazy about the box hardware
 
it's a long shot because it doesn't do mainframe, but there are a couple of small mainframe boxes we could get
 
'atm' - snigger
 
pfo
the 3K is not even nehalem CPUs
 
7:10 PM
@Chopper3 you damn right :P
 
2003 opterons iirc
 
pfo
@Chopper3 nope, Xeon 5400s on the 32XX
 
@pfo I'm not happy even with the 6000- it doesn't have more than two nodes
 
thought it was a 3170
 
sorry, might be a 3270
 
pfo
7:11 PM
@Chopper3 i was talking about the "current" generation hardware
 
ah
 
pfo
3270 same thing
the sequential performance sucks balls on netapp
it's mainly the head that can't push more than 1GB/s
 
nope, 3170
 
pfo
unless you get 6280s
 
we're looking at 6280s
 
pfo
7:12 PM
3170 should be able do 800-1000MB/s
the 6280s is imho what they should sell for midrange
 
the 3170 is only nas
 
pfo
all netapps should really be used as NAS ;)
 
the 6280 would be for everything, but Im not sure it has the horsepower
 
pfo
it's what they're designed for.
 
So.many.storage.guys.
3
 
pfo
7:13 PM
it has, quad socket Nehalem 75XX AFAIR.
 
they do block OK now... they finally solved that horrible inefficiency that required you to reserve double the amount of space for LUNs
 
pfo
but be aware of aggregate and volume limits
 
they're actually better at FCoE than they ever were at straight FC
 
@MDMarra what we lack in numbers, we make up for in forceful opinions
 
enough technobabble. cute time:
 
pfo
7:14 PM
100-ish T max for aggregates on 62XX
 
@pfo what limits? In terms of number of drives and size of volumes?
 
@tombull89 later...
 
@Chopper3: I'm not a lesbian!!
3
 
damn, too late
seen Iain's?
 
7:17 PM
i'd probably remove that last pic btw :P
haha.
 
pfo
@Basil number of drives is 1200 for the total clustered system (HA pair)
as said aggregate size is 105T on 62XX
no matter which disks
 
@pfo we'll probably need several then.
 
pfo
@Basil you can run 12 HA pairs in ONTAP clustered mode
 
@pfo cluster mode isnt ready yet
 
pfo
and manage that from a single instance, but no global namespace.
 
7:20 PM
they dont support fcp
 
pfo
@Basil it is
@Basil true! FCP is the exception.
 
fcp is all we do. Our NAS is a small 3170
 
pfo
but 8.1 will do that.
and 8.1 comes in january
i'm running 8.1RC2 on several systems now
but -7 mode
 
right, but then we'd be early adopters. We have absolutely no tolerance for downtime. 5 9s doesnt cut it here...
 
pfo
then go away from netapp dude ;)
 
7:22 PM
we have triple redundancy on everything
 
pfo
netapp is a midrange product
 
this would be for our midrange workload- databases on AIX and windows via vmware
netapp works well in that space
 
pfo
go USV, Symmetrix, DS8K if you need that.
 
anyways, they're ahead of compellent, but behind all the other vendors
 
pfo
yeah, but netapp is not t5 9s, a clustered fail-over can take up to 180s.
so no 5 9s with that.
 
7:23 PM
true
good point actually
(makes notes)
 
pfo
a fail-over is usually done in 15s though but offical number says 180s
 
@chopper3 Cisco SFP-H10GB-CU3M
 
so the multi-path driver can't access the LUN through the redundant path for minimum 15 seconds?
 
pfo
yeah
 
thanks for that- I'm gonna sound smart in the next meeting :)
all my experience is with IBM, and now the XP24000
 
pfo
7:27 PM
as said, don't count on the 15s even.
 
0
Q: How to measure server power consumption?

sanjay pWe have data center running more than 2000 servers. We are planning to shutdown the servers on a weekend for cost cutting purpose. How can we calculate which servers are consuming more power in the data center so that we can shutdown those many servers only . What is the best way to determine pow...

 
my boss knows the VMAX
 
pfo
the official number 180s guaranteed
 
yeah, I'll say minimum 15 seconds
 
I would really love to know this guy's business
 
pfo
7:27 PM
yeah, that's more 5 9s gear.
 
the others we're researching are EMC for vmax, IBM for DS8 and possibly XIV (although we'd probably go 3par instead of XIV)
maybe SVC
Hey, actually- has anyone heard anything about the VPLEX? It's supposed to be an EMC SVC clone?
 
pfo
XIV is upper midrange
 
not going to fly here- they don't have 15k drives
 
@Basil VMAX is pretty sweet - I've only ever seen it once
 
pfo
@Basil no VPLEX is a building block virtual infrastructure
 
7:29 PM
or ssd
@voretaq7 it's top of my list, although I like DS8 too
 
EMC prices though
 
@pfo what does that mean?
 
pfo
DS 8K is the mainframe storage
 
@voretaq7 they're all expensive.
 
I really like EMC's stuff.
My purchasing department doesn't.
 
pfo
7:30 PM
and symmterix of course
 
Everything is expensive -- I'd imagine EMC and IBM are top of the list on features & probably tied for pricing though
 
@voretaq7 I hate their VNX- it's like they stapled a bad NAS to a good cellerra
 
pfo
@voretaq7 the DS8K is something special, for other products IBM resells NetApp.
the DS8K is their only product line that is not OEM'd.
 
also v7000 and svc
 
pfo
yeah, SVC is a really nice thing.
 
7:31 PM
@pfo I can't see what makes it special though- doesnt the vmax(/symmetrix) scale better?
wait
hold that thought- I have a meeting
 
not surprising - IBM tends to like to OEM stuff a lot more in the last 5 or so years
 
brb
 
I think they're getting their field circus monkeys from the OEM vendor's zoo
. . . I hate the inconsistency of Linux, I really do.
I have done nothing different to this USB drive than the last 3 times I tried to create it. It works now.
I am left to conclude that in order to produce a bootable USB thumb drive one must simply try three times.

My build server is Caesar.
The USB thumb drive is the crown.
Later tonight I'm going to sneak back into the office wearing a toga and stab the build server repeatedly.
2
 
pfo
@voretaq7 to make it perfect you'd do it on 15th of march ;)
 
@pfo Can't wait that long. urge to kill too high.
 
7:46 PM
Users.
 
pfo
laterz
 
@pfo maybe I'll wait until the ides of January. That's only 3 days...
@WesleyDavid Users when they see a dialog box:
 
@voretaq7 Wait, that's me when I see a user.
 
8:03 PM
 
That...is so apropos
 
8:17 PM
Oh yay invoices!!
Oh wait, these are the ones I have to pay. *Into the shredder!!*
(I refuse to fix the above evidence of markdown's evil character.)
 
@WesleyDavid Why not fire? Fire burns, fire is fun fire is...ooo prettyy
 
serverfault.com/a/348544/84104 I don't understand the first comment.
 
aaand back
 
@Basil Warner Brothers.
 
@WesleyDavid did you ever get that spiffy frontend running for your 10k challenge? I see you recently posted the results, but I didn't see a link to a website at all.
 
8:31 PM
Hey everyone. Did I miss anything?
 
@MikeyB There was some technical jargon brandied about, then some complaints about users, then some LOLGIFs, so no, you didn't miss anything. :)
3
 
@pfo So back to storage: from what I can tell, the DS8 seems to not scale well. Both the USP and VMAX support larger configurations... is there something I'm missing?
 
@jscott Business as usual, eh?
 
@pfo I thought it was 4th March? "The Ides of March" I thought, was the 4th.
 
I've been head down adding in an EFI netboot environment and upgrading our build distro to SLES11SP1. And documenting it! And shit's working.
 
8:33 PM
@MikeyB I'm just fly-on-the-walling it... Curious who's going to be in the running for the second mod seat.
 
The vast majority of eligible votes don't really know any of the nominees. I think that most nominees are in the running for both seats.
 
I'll be your facebook girlfriend for a week if you pay me enough.
 
There are some seriously weird ones on there.
by the same girl: I will make your girlfriend or girl jealous by posting all over your facebook, its 20 posts in total for $5.
NO. DIE IN A FIRE.
 
8:50 PM
@tombull89 WTF is that?
 
@tombull89 if you exploit a lot of these girls, will this make me a facebook pimp ?
3
 
@LucasKauffman Dunno, but for $50 that's a great way to confuse friends and family.
 
fuck yea
 
@tombull89 what is this i don...wha?
 
@TylerShads people will do a lot for $5.
 
8:54 PM
@tombull89 Not anything
 
@tombull89 that entire fiverr.com almost looks like a joke.
 
pfo
@tombull89 nope, ides is middle of month and in march it's the 15th.
 
I wish you could leave comments on those posts.
 

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