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15:36
Uncontrolled Airspace: General Aviation Podcast: "Feeling Mellow" UCAP #429
posted on April 14, 2017

Special UCAP episode recorded live from Sun 'n Fun 2017, broadcast live on SNFRadio. Guests: Dan Johnson, LAMA, Lites Leenhouts, President, Sun 'n Fun. This and more in Uncontrolled Airspace. Recorded April 9, 2017.

 
3 hours later…
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
18:32
hey there @DeltaLima
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
Hello
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
how're things going?
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
Good, how are you?
Ah, I now see Shalvenay is an alter ego of UnrecognizedFallingObject
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
yep -- chat.SE is a bit limited for us folk with different names on different Stacks
and I'm doing alright here, reading up on deicing and anti-icing and kinda wondering something...
could a Type IV fluid still meet its high-speed shear requirements, but be compromised or marginal when it comes to low-speed shear performance?
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
Good question, to which I don't have an answer immediately unfortunately.
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
18:37
because I'm thinking about the recent Pickle Lake DC3 mishap, and wondering if it'd be possible to have problems on takeoff because the Type IV failed to shear off the wings properly, given the low takeoff speeds of an aircraft such as the DC3
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
Doesn't sound entirely unplausible to me. I have no idea how thick the stuff is.
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
whereas, folks might not have noticed before that they had a problem because they were deicing jets and newer turboprops that have higher takeoff speeds, giving the fluid more of a chance to shear off
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
I am trying to find the specification for type IV, no luck so far. For type II I've found that at 80 kts most will shear off.,
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@DeltaLima it's said that there are two tests for type IV -- one at 60kts and one at 100kts
although I am reading a TC guidance doc that says
> Be aware that SAE and ISO Type II and Type IV fluids should be used on aircraft with
rotation speeds (Vr) above 100 knots.
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
18:56
That is a bit confusing, because I thought Type IV was for higher speed aircraft. Type III is for lower speed aircraft and aircraft that can't have a thick layer of de-icing fluid.
Why not ask fist what the differences are between all deicing fluid types, and what their typical use is?
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@DeltaLima Type III seems to be a unicorn
it seems that airports are either going to have Type I + Type II, Type I + Type IV, Type II only, or Type IV only with the latter two using diluted Type II/IV fluid for de-icing
occasionally, you might find a place that uses solely Type I
but my understanding seems to be that Type I de-ice + Type IV anti-ice is the modern standard practice
(that TC guidance doc mentions that TC has not approved any Type III fluids for use)
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
Yes, type III seems to be new. The document I read said that the standard color for type III was yet to be decided.
 
2 hours later…
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
20:40
btw, apparently there is at least one type III fluid out there
TomMcW
TomMcW
20:57
I finally busted 10K rep!
4
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
nice
TomMcW
TomMcW
21:12
@Shalvenay I must now find ways to use my newfound super powers priveliges :)
ymb1
ymb1
21:36
@TomMcW nice! :D
you can now accelerate past 250 knots
@Shalvenay hey there, I get the point of the question, more clearly here from the discussion with DL, rather interesting point
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 But not below 10,000 ft
ymb1
ymb1
@TomMcW nah man, you're now stuck above 10k
PK is in space now :P
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 I totally just got that :)
Kinda slow today
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
hey there @ymb1 and yeah -- things are rather slow today
TomMcW
TomMcW
@Shalvenay I'm talking about me being slow
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
21:44
ah
ymb1
ymb1
I only now realized jest and gist are different, @Shalvenay i meant i get the gist of the question
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 Well, I just got the gist of your jest
ymb1
ymb1
is there a subtle pronunciation difference like with sex/six?
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 Doesn't seem too subtle to me.
ymb1
ymb1
@TomMcW yup agreed
TomMcW
TomMcW
21:52
@ymb1 Btw, plan B: gliders!
ymb1
ymb1
@TomMcW good thinking!
@TomMcW you can now view posts like this, P.S. plane in answer is RC
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 The 707 is RC?
ymb1
ymb1
nah, the C-5 in the deleted answer
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 Ah. Watched that earlier. RC as in scale model?
ymb1
ymb1
yup
not aware of 1:1 RC planes :D
well, F-4 practice/test drones
but you know what I mean :D
TomMcW
TomMcW
22:04
@ymb1 Wasn't sure if you might habe meant remote control of the actual plane. Like that 707 they crashed on purpose in Mexico
ymb1
ymb1
ah yes, there's that, and a 727 too
by RC i meant toy scaled-down planes
hey the space shuttle flew inverted for 25% of its orbit around the earth!
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 TIL Cessna made an attack aircraft.
ymb1
ymb1
@TomMcW military contracts, always good hehe was just watching The Pentagon Wars movie today, seen it?
it's spot on for any military around the world
never get bored of it (the movie)
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 That the one with Cary Elwes?
The one where he roasted the sheep?
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@TomMcW gotta love the Super Tweet
ymb1
ymb1
22:14
@TomMcW hehe yeah the sheep
@Shalvenay why don't add to the deicing question the bit you talked about here, an example of a consequence on a slow plane
that accident you mentioned
TomMcW
TomMcW
@Shalvenay Never knew Cessna ever made a plane that carries ordnance
ymb1
ymb1
user image
is it just the A-37 that carries/d weapons?
TomMcW
TomMcW
Afaik.
@ymb1 Didn't know they make a helicopter either.
fooot
fooot
There's the AC-208 but ATK installs the weapons.
ymb1
ymb1
user image
@fooot that's new to me
TomMcW
TomMcW
22:30
Is that jyst a caravan with missiles?
ymb1
ymb1
yup! :D
for hunting moose in alaska
@TomMcW did I mention The Pentagon Wars? :P
does it have portholes for guns though?
/jk
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 Lol. Maybe that's what Sara Palin uses
TomMcW
TomMcW
22:51
So nobody has been able to id that weird plane. Figured somebody around here could find it. Must be a one-off homebuilt
ymb1
ymb1
23:22
@TomMcW i'm thinking not homebuilt but a darpa project
TomMcW
TomMcW
@ymb1 It almost looks like somebody took the nose cone off of something and added wings and a tail

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