The Hangar

casey

00:59

0

I'm sure that you all have heard about the missing 777-200ER out of Malaysia. I want to hear your best theories on where the plane actually is. If/When we ever find out what happened to the plane, I will mark the correct answer as such. Personally, I predict that it will turn up somewhere in A...

boeing

please cast a close vote if able

Lnafziger

01:10

@casey Already done. :)

casey

@Lnafziger thanks :)

thought I would like to hear the rationale behind his Africa theory. hah. Land and refuel a missing 777 without drawing suspicion

Lnafziger

@casey Haha, no kidding. I went ahead and deleted it too... Nothing of value there.

voretaq7

01:42

@casey Air Pirates.

casey

01:56

@Lnafziger that would have been my vote too if I had a little more rep :)

Stack Exchange

03:29

Uncontrolled Airspace: General Aviation Podcast: "Echo-Papa-Papa" UCAP #349

posted on March 13, 2014

Flying Felonies… Off-shore flight checks… African homebuilder… Drones, drones, no never mind… Sun n Fun Radio milestone… EAA skiplane flyin… One-week-wonder… Most produced aircraft… All this and more on the Uncontrolled Airspace General Aviation Podcast. Recorded Feb 7, 2014.

Manfred

08:08

wow, 2200 visits according to area 51.

3

roe

08:22

nice

Stack Exchange

09:55

This Day in Aviation: 13 March 1928

posted on March 13, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

13 March 1928: At Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, Miss Eileen M. Vollick passed her flight test in a Curtiss JN-4 Canuck, and was issued license number 77. She was the first woman licensed as a pilot in Canada. The following is an article written by Eileen Vollick, prior to her death in 1968 (photographs are from […] The post 13 March 1928 appeared first on This Day in Aviation.

flyingfisch

12:43

@casey why is this question missing? I thought it was only closed, not deleted

ratchet freak

@flyingfisch if a question is bad enough it gets deleted quite quickly

flyingfisch

oh ok

ratchet freak

it takes some downvotes and higher rep users to cast the delete votes (or just a single diamond swinging wildly)

flyingfisch

ah ok

Lnafziger

13:34

@ratchetfreak :-)

ratchet freak

?

Lnafziger

@ratchetfreak I like the "or just a single diamond swinging wildly" bit, lol.

ratchet freak

ah

well mod powers veto all

Lnafziger

Hopefully there aren't many too far off base though. :)

Anyway, gotta get ready to go fly. Have a good day!

ratchet freak

don't crash

Lnafziger

13:38

I'll do my best.

ratchet freak

and don't get lost

we already have a missing plane

Lnafziger

We are flying over Cuba....

flyingfisch

@Lnafziger seriously?

Jay Carr

Don't get shot down then?

roe

13:54

@ratchetfreak Wasn't that what the F/O on Qantas 32 said before departure? :)

ratchet freak

oh great yet another how to track MH370 question

Jay Carr

I don't think those questions are going to die down any time soon. The US government just said they think the plane flew for 4 hours or so after they lost contact with it.

Now everyone is trying to figure out how we could possibly not know where it is.

I think people forget how big this world is...

I'm reading an article in the Wall Street Journal right now. Apparently Boeing was receiving engine telemetry from the aircraft for about 4 hours after the last know contact with the flight. Which is interesting, I wasn't aware Boeing was collecting that sort of data in real time... Which, I think people are rightly going to wonder why other information wasn't included in that uplink.

Article: online.wsj.com/news/articles/…

@ratchetfreak Actually, that question (while clearly aimed at flight 370) seems pretty legit besides. Though I wish he would remove the editorializing...

ratchet freak

yeah I made an edit suggestion for it

still pending though...

Jay Carr

14:10

lol, and I commented that he should edit it. Hopefully he takes us up on that.

roe

> All those years seeking for the perfect invisible plane, special reflective surfaces, "stealth" technology...
> And the only thing they had to do is...TURN OFF THE TRANSPONDER!!!

Comment on AVHerald :)

ratchet freak

or it's another drive by question

there is still primary radar to detect silent planes

Jay Carr

@roe lol!

@ratchetfreak - right, I think someone is being a bit sarcastic.

ratchet freak

and I respond to sarcasm like it wasn't

Jay Carr

@rat

lol

Not used to the auto-complete here.

@ratchetfreak - Riiiiiiight.

@roe, should that question be marked as a duplicate then? When you boil it down it is essentially the same question.

roe

14:30

@JayCarr Well, the answer covers it; but the other question asked why you couldn't use phones on planes, not how it works when you can.. so I don't know :)

ratchet freak

if the edit goes through then keep as dupe or merge then?

Jay Carr

@roe @ratchetfreak To be fair, the actual text of that referenced question does explicitly ask how cell phone calls are handled on an airplane, which is essentially what the origin question is asking. I'd say this is a good case for a merge, at very least.

casey

@ratchetfreak your edit is pending with 1 for 1 against right now

It needs another reviewer before anything happens with it

I cast my vote for, but someone else called it too major and I cant say I entirely disagree with that. I was on the fence myself.

ratchet freak

and it went through :)

casey

14:48

is it bad that I occasionally search google for MH370 just to see if aviation.SE is returning anything on the first page just so I can brace for the flood of bad posts?

ratchet freak

I'd say it's a preventive measure

flyingfisch

15:01

just deleted this, simply obnoxious: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/2078/…

Aaron

114 kviews on that cockpit question?

ratchet freak

it's the first result when googling "cockpit dark spot"

flyingfisch

wow, it's been cross posted all over the place

ratchet freak

15:16

okay fess up; who let the spam bot scrape aviation?

flyingfisch

lol

casey

no need for a spam bot, just follow this guy: twitter.com/StackAviation

we are low enough traffic that that damn bot posts everything

and that A10 Q was #1 on the Y combinator hacker news the other day, and the link got around

@flyingfisch did you flag that answer?

ah, it just got deleted and as a bonus I got my 1 rep back from the DV i gave it

I didnt realize those were refunded

hah

flyingfisch

15:34

@casey yep, before I realized that I had enough rep to delete it :P

Jay Carr

What was this offensive answer?

I didn't get to it before it was deleted.

ratchet freak

it just wasn't an answer tot the question

it said it was a medical condition

Jay Carr

lol

I didn't know planes got sick like that.

Dark spots...could be cancer.

flyingfisch

@JayCarr yeah no kidding :D

preflight inspection, check for cancerous tumors

casey

@JayCarr it was a link to a wikipedia page about a specific kind of birthmark that featured a picture of someones butt with the mark on it

Jay Carr

15:38

@case

:-/

@casey I assume the birthmark looked like a face? So that it could be a similar misdirection?

casey

it was just a dark spot

Mongolian spot

A Mongolian spot, also known as "Mongolian blue spot", "congenital dermal melanocytosis", is a benign, flat, congenital birthmark with wavy borders and irregular shape, discovered on and named after Mongolians by Erwin Bälz. It is also extremely prevalent among other North, East and Southeast Asians, Malay archipelago islanders, Indigenous Oceanians (chiefly Micronesians and Polynesians), Amerindians, East Africans, Latin Americans and Caribbeans of mixed-race descent, and Turkish people. It normally disappears three to five years after birth and almost always by puberty. The most common c...

there you go

while it does explain a dark spot, aircraft are not susceptible to this method of origin

Jay Carr

This is a fair.

This is what I get for asking I think :D

voretaq7

15:53

@Lnafziger commie. :)

flyingfisch

@voretaq7 Or spy, one of the two

ratchet freak

now now be nice

roe

cbsnews.com/news/…

Wow

ratchet freak

it is dangerous

voretaq7

roe

16:01

@voretaq7 Hah, you had that loaded up as a shortcut, eh? :)

voretaq7

Maybe if we start throwing people in federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison for being a fucking menace they'll stop being stupid menaces.

@roe Google images: grumpycat good

@roe is that the one that lit up the police chopper?

roe

@voretaq7 yeah, sure, but it took you like... 4 seconds, to post it :)

voretaq7

@roe tabs open quickly :)

roe

@voretaq7 "A California man has been sentenced to 14 years in prison for aiming a laser pointer at a Fresno Police Department helicopter"

seems so

but wow, 14 years

this big shot soccer-manager over here just got handed a 3.5 years sentence for tax evasion, and he hid money worth like 30 million euros in taxes in switzerland or something

Aaron

14 years does some kind of excessive, but I've also got to wonder how they found the perp

voretaq7

16:04

@roe he'll probably serve 6 months or something, pay an obscene fine, do some community service, and have a felony conviction for the rest of his life. (Unless he was all "YEAH! I DID IT AND I'LL DO IT AGAIN! I HATE HELICOPTERS! I WANT THEM ALL TO CRASH!" at the trial. Then lock the stupid SOB up.)

Aaron

seems to me that one would just get rid of the evidence and there's no witnesses

voretaq7

@Aaron criminals generally aren't that bright :)

ratchet freak

@voretaq7 their lasers are though

too bad it doesn't make up for it

voretaq7

there was one with some kids driving around in a car who lit up an aircraft (I think it was another police helicopter) - they didn't even throw the laser out of the car

and seriously, do people not fucking think? "Hey watch this - I'm gonna blind this pilot on a 5 mile final flying over my house! Hur Hur Hur" -- um, JACKASS, where do you think that plane is gonna crash?

casey

16:20

thats one thing I've always hated about laser pointers. Aside from the aircraft idiocy, it seems everyones favorite thing to do is point them at peoples faces (or heads, like a laser sight) with no care as to the damage those things can do to peoples vision

I had a laser pointer when I was in high school (cheap and the cats loved it but no real use for it) but when someone wanted to see it, the first thing they'd do is point it at someones face, even after I said, do not point this anywhere near eyes or anything reflective like mirrors... people.

voretaq7

@casey short-term eye exposure from an old-style red laser pointer isn't too bad - your eye can recover from a few seconds of staring at it without long-term damage. The green (or worse, blue) ones though - even a second of direct exposure can permanently impair your vision.

flyingfisch

why do people do it?

ratchet freak

because it seems harmless, "it's just light!"

flyingfisch

sure, but why do it?

casey

@voretaq7 I and a friend may have sourced a bit higher power pointers than you would have normally found at an office store of that era...

flyingfisch

16:27

i never even heard of it before just now

ratchet freak

same thing when you are sitting in the sun and have a watch on

people just can't resist shining in someones eye

flyingfisch

oh

hmm

so then they think they are just playing a prank?

ratchet freak

maybe it's a cry for attention

I don't know

casey

@voretaq7 we were the kind of guys that would go down to welding supply companies until we would find one that will fill a stainless steel thermos with liquid N2

flyingfisch

also, have any aircraft actually been brought down by laser strikes?

ratchet freak

16:30

being blinded (by any means I believe) is a full emergency situation

flyingfisch

sure, but I was just wondering if an airliner has crashed because of the pilot being blinded by a laser strike

ratchet freak

I haven't heard about a crash like that

roe

@flyingfisch I'm pretty sure no airliner has gone down due to laser strikes. Smaller aircraft is harder to tell, as they probably wouldn't live to tell you about it. In that case NTSB just says "Unable to maintain control..."

flyingfisch

@roe ah ok. I wonder if even a large scale crash like that would stop them from doing it, even

ratchet freak

those 14 years in prison might warn people off

flyingfisch

16:33

yeah...

airspacemag.com/flight-today/the-laser-threat-180947755

flyingfisch

16:47

what the... foxnews.com/scitech/2010/09/17/…

ratchet freak

I call BS on that

also that's 3 years ago

voretaq7

@casey hashtag-#AwesomeSauce

@roe No the NTSB classifies laser illumination as an incident

there's a site that tracks the incidents (I don't remember if it's FAA, NTSB, or NASA) - I don't think there are any crashes attributed to it

roe

@voretaq7 Only if they know he got hit by a laser, and chances are they wont know that.

voretaq7

@roe I would think if the ATC tape dump transcript contains 'HOLY [EXPLETIVE] I'M BLIND! SOME SHITHEAD LIT ME UP WITH A LASER!' it's a good indication :-)

but yeah, if it's a GA VFR flight not talking to anyone and they get lit up, crash, and die without saying anything we'd never know

Jay Carr

17:02

It's likely just motivated by common sense.

roe

@voretaq7 right, and it's bound to be at night, on final, at an uncontrolled airport.

Jay Carr

I mean, if we only ever enacted rules after a few hundred people had died it would make for a pretty bad precident.

shortstheory

@casey: you might cringe to know that I actually find it pretty entertaining to point lasers at mirrors in the dark (obviously not at anyone's face).

but I only have a cheap $2 2-5mW laser

:(

Jay Carr

@shortstheory - In a smokey room? Because that's really cool to watch.

casey

@shortstheory I have no problems with it. I just told people that because I knew they wouldnt be cognizant of where the reflected light was going to end up

shortstheory

17:05

no smoke, but that's a pretty cool idea

i don't smoke, nor do I know anyone who does, so how can I generate this smoke?

voretaq7

@roe it happens at busy controlled fields far too often for my liking...

shortstheory

dry ice would be nice, but I can't get it!

Jay Carr

Fog machine maybe, dry ice is another option.

casey

@JayCarr thats how all the FAA regs were written, the precedent is set.

Jay Carr

Oh, lol.

voretaq7

17:05

Fog machine

A fog machine, fog generator, or smoke machine is a device that emits a dense vapor that appears similar to fog or smoke. This artificial fog is most commonly used in professional entertainment applications, but smaller, more affordable fog machines are becoming common for personal use. Fog machines can also be found in use in a variety of industrial, training, and some military applications. Typically, fog is created by vaporizing proprietary water and glycol-based or glycerin-based fluids or through the atomization of mineral oil. This fluid (often referred to colloquially as fog juice) v...

casey

@shortstheory no dry ice? The grocery store here sells it :)

voretaq7

@casey Why do we need all these regulations? Doesn't 91.13 pretty much cover it all? :)

2

Jay Carr

@casey - I'd like to believe that some of the more obvious ones (stand clear of a prop on start up, keep the runway clear of other aircraft while landing) were probably rules before someone got killed... But you might be right. Bureaucracies never cease to amaze me.

shortstheory

:(

voretaq7

Fun Facts: fog fluid + alcohol + water = de-ice solution. (I wouldn't use it on a plane, but I've used it on cars in a pinch)

shortstheory

17:07

I'm live in India

no grocery store sells dry ice

voretaq7

@shortstheory don't feel bad, I live in the US and the stores by me don't sell it either :P

shortstheory

lol

guys check this out:

imgur.com/e49PXt1

voretaq7

Prrrobably because punk kids like me would buy it and do the exploding soda bottle thing.

Jay Carr

@shortstheory maybe just get a bit of dust in the air then.

Fluff a pillow, grab some really dry, fine silt from outside, something like that.

shortstheory

I made that on my glass topped study table

Jay Carr

17:08

I normally am fluffing a pillow...

@voretaq7 you and me both.

shortstheory

with a 15 second exposure

doesn't it look sort of like a liquid sky?

casey

@voretaq7 you can also do the exploding coke bottle with muriatic acid (HCl for pools) and aluminum foil. :)

Jay Carr

@casey ooooohhh. Might have to try that... In a super safe ultra controlled enviroment where there's no chance for property damage or injury to persons or animals...

voretaq7

@casey far more hazardous - you wind up with acid everywhere

Jay Carr

You know, fyi.

casey

17:10

i personally preferred that to the dry ice

shortstheory

okay just checked out that a liquid sky looks nothing like that :(

voretaq7

I like my explosions to be somewhat safe :-)

casey

@voretaq7 don't stand near it and get a find someone good at chemistry to figure out how much acid you need so there isn't much (any) left by the time it explodes

voretaq7

if we're talking about cool things you can do with lasers and long exposures :)

Jay Carr

Nice.

voretaq7

17:13

I lack the talent for light painting - I've tried it a few times

casey

the dry ice can be dangerous too, on two occasions we have 3 liter bottles that did not explode, just pressurized insanely

voretaq7

@casey that's easy to fix though - 's why you bring a pellet gun with you :)

shortstheory

@voretaq7: woah

casey

@voretaq7 true

shortstheory

what about the B/G lasers in the background?

and how did the guy stay still for so long lol

Jay Carr

17:14

To be fair, the effect is probably easier with LEDs, what with them being omnidirectional and all.

voretaq7

@shortstheory the guy doesn't really have to stand still long - you do a flash-fill to set the basic exposure, then you use a laser/LED/light gun to draw in the stuff you want

shortstheory

merging images would work too imo

voretaq7

alupacreative.com/photography/light-painting-tutorial

that's one way to do it

shortstheory

I've posted this before, but I want to know what you guys think of it:

voretaq7

I knew a gal in college who did still life light painting (set everything up in the studio, kill the lights, and walk around the scene with various-color flashlights)

shortstheory

17:17

Which aircraft do you think that wing belongs to?

@voretaq7: that link's pretty good

voretaq7

@shortstheory merging images is cheating (or at the very least a different technique) - that's one I am good at - I've got a few pictures of peoples heads coming out of walls somewhere from when I used to do compositing

I even have a few remasked negatives around somewhere - THAT'S a process I never want to do again.

I should really drag my gear out to the airport one day and do something like this with planes:

Jay Carr

17:44

@voretaq7 Hey, you're question regarding this aircraft. You should totally ask it, I'd love to hear a well researched answer as well. The N9-M is my most favorite plane of all time, I'd love to know more about it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_N-9M

Hmm, meant to make that a nifty link thing.

Northrop N-9M

{| |} The Northrop N-9M was an approximate one-third scale, 60-ft wide, all-wing aircraft used for the development of the 172-ft wide Northrop XB-35 and YB-35 flying wing long-range, heavy bomber program. First flown in 1942, the N-9M (M for Model) was the third in a lineage of all-wing Northrop aircraft designs that began in 1929 when Jack Northrop succeeded in early experiments with his single pusher propeller, twin-tailed, twin-boom, all stressed metal skin Northrop Flying Wing X-216H monoplane, and a decade later, the dual-prop N-1M of 1939–1941. Northrop's pioneering all-wing aircraf...

There we go.

roe

19:06

►

That telescopic lens really lets you appreciate how much they're moving around

especially the dashes, they look like they're made of paper :)

casey

I loved flying in terrible winds :)

didn't get many opportunities to operate in crosswinds above 30 kts though

voretaq7

19:27

I dislike flying in terrible winds, and the occasional 10-knot crosswind I get saddled with is plenty in my dinky little Piper ThankYouVeryMuch :-P

Q: "Why are we landing with a 90 degree crosswind at 10 knots when there's a runway aligned into the wind?"
A: "Because the guy at the desk is the size of a small house and he's too lazy to go out and turn the wind tee."

casey

I was aligned fora straight in to a runway that had really a really convenient taxi to the gate but had a 28G35 direct cross. I took the stright in over the better aligned but longer taxi route. The captain I was paired with was on board with my decision.

roe

I love crosswind landings, but the most I've had is 12kts in the Katana (demonstrated 15)

I had like 8kts in the Dynamic WT-9 once (i think it has a demonstrated crosswind of 11), and that plane does not like a crosswind

or wind at all for that matter

casey

I did have an FO question my choice of runway once though, I was coming in from the north into KGSP and wanted the straight in with an 8 kt tailwind. Aircraft limitation was 10 kts and that runway is 11,000 ft long.

The highest winds I can recall operating in were at BNA with gusts above 68kts (I can't recall the sustained) and into YUL with 52G70

at YUL it was straight down the runway

final was soooooo long with groundspeeds under 90 kts

roe

@casey So.. did you make the first turnoff? :)

oh shoot, YUL doesn't have any interesting turn-offs

casey

19:43

@roe that was usually not a problem on most runways. I could land the EMB-145 to a full stop in about 3000 ft in still winds if I needed to

roe

@casey Nice. You could almost operate out of my home field.. :) (2600ft)

casey

I could almost get in. getting back out would be problematic

roe

oh right, there's that.

how much ground roll would you need?

there are pretty much no obstructions off the end of 24, so if you could just get it off the ground... ;)

casey

I only know the 3000 ft reference because asking to land 11 at EWR was sort of a gentleman's argreement to LAHSO 22R even though you got a normal landing clearance

I'd have to pull out my books to remember

with just enough gas to get to the closest airport with a good runway I could probably do it. flaps 18 takeoff with E-TO thrust selected (107% continuous power) at sea level, V1 is 103 kais (28,000 lbs GTOW). I'm fairly confident I could get it off the ground but aborting might not end well.

I can't say for sure, we didnt have generic runway performance charts. Each airplane had a few huge books with performance data for each runway at each airport we operated out of and some approved alternates. any other airport we had to get numbers from dispatch

so we'd look up the runway chart and it would give us max weights for various takeoff configurations, temperatures, and winds such that our V1 would be at or below whatf the actual runway length would require.

roe

nice :) field is 295 MSL so close enough if it's a cold day :)

runway might be a bit narrow though

70 ft across

voretaq7

19:59

@roe I think we had this conversation once, my calm-wind landings suck because I'm so used to some kind of a crosswind :)

Transcript for