The Hangar

voretaq7

00:03

surprisingly little changes (737-800 / 737-200 (I think))

DeltaLima

B737-300 without EFIS display

voretaq7

@DeltaLima . . . is that a digital (LCD) VSI?

DeltaLima

Yes it looks like it

voretaq7

all the freakin' things in the cockpit to replace with an electronic display. The VSI.

DeltaLima

Here it is with EFIS

Now the VSI is analog

voretaq7

00:11

I gotta say I'm not a huge fan of glass, but given my choice I'd take the -800 panel - it vastly simplified information display. It's gotta be way easier to scan.

@DeltaLima "There's only so many amps on the bus - you want your fancy-pants digital horizon and radar, or an LCD VSI?" :-)

DeltaLima

That's probably the reason :-)

voretaq7

still can't get over that though - the one digital instrument on that chunk of the panel - the VSI.

mechanical gyro horizon. Presumably mechanical gyro HSI. Freakin' flip-digit DME.... but the VSI is digital precision :)

DeltaLima

@voretaq7 Do you mind if I change a couple of things to your ADS-B wiki over the next day? It's my core technology I am working on world wide so it is a bit of my pet...

voretaq7

@DeltaLima go for it - I just threw that up quick to have something there. It needs a lot of work (specifically it should link to some of the US/Everywhere-Else differences)

tag wikis are excellent free rep (until you hit 4k. Then you can create/update them without approval and you don't get rep anymore :P)

DeltaLima

There's a reopen vote on the "weakest link" question. I don't see a reason to reopen it, what do you think

1

Q: Where are the first structural damages after maximum speed is passed?

What 2 parts of the airframe are the first to have structural failure after exceeding maximum speed? Sorry. I just thought there might be a part that usually failed first.

voretaq7

00:18

@DeltaLima is it an automatic reopen 'cuz it got edited? I really don't think it's answerable unless we know what specific aircraft they're talking about

DeltaLima

It was indeed an automatic reopen. Voted keep it closed.

voretaq7

(and even then you'd need to be on the structures and materials team that designed the thing to say "Yeah, you exceed Vne and the tail falls off.")

OK time to go acquire food for my lizard (because lizards like to eat, don't they?)

DeltaLima

I approved your ADS-B wiki, but it doesn't show up. Do you know how many people need to approve a wiki before it goes public or is there just delay

Ok, talk to you later. Time to get some sleep :-)

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Undoubtedly wrong answer

This answer to this question is incorrect on several levels. The question was about turbine engines, the answer was about jet engines. The answer is about starting the engine, but the question does not mention that. The answer is incorrect about the reason turbine engines take so long to spool ...

discussion

egid

@DeltaLima just so you know, a lot of 737 operators would not allow Boeing to redesign the flight deck

they were more interested in commonality than features

737's NGs with glass had the glass configured to display round dials.

lnafziger

00:48

@voretaq7 The digital VSI is actually really nice. In addition to being an instantaneous VSI, all of the empty space in the middle is normally used to display TCAS info, so it doesn't take up any more panel space to include it. Then it can also show the TCAS RA's and turn the part of the VSI dial red that you should not fly in because of the Resolution Advisory. (Ie if it wants you to climb at > 1,500 fpm, everything below that will turn red.)

@DeltaLima lol, good whiskey!

@BretCopeland Thanks!

Bret Copeland

01:16

@voretaq7 A digital VSI/TCAS was the only digital instrument Concorde ever had - specifically to fulfill the TCAS requirement. They still didn't even have GPS installed by the time they retired in 2003.

voretaq7

True I guess the TCAS capability makes it actually useful to digitize the VSI :-)

It just sticks out like a hand full of sore thumbs on an otherwise analog panel

(probably even more so on the Concorde :-)

lnafziger

A lot of older airliners still don't have GPS. There just isn't any operational reason to install it (and maintain it, and train all of their pilots) when they have other means of navigation that work just as well for them.

voretaq7

They have 6 years just like the rest of us :-P

lnafziger

Yeah, and all of their new planes come equipped with it. :)

voretaq7

I'm sure there will be a spat of RNAV retrofitting - no sense scrapping otherwise airworthy airframes

on the other hand - maybe we can all go in on a used 737 & a pair of 430s? :-D

lnafziger

01:34

Haha, the used 737's are cheaper than most of the airplanes that I fly. Training is a lot cheaper for them too.

Economies of scale....

Bret Copeland

yeah, and then we'll remember that 737's run on Jet A instead of dreams.

lnafziger

!!lesson

Otto the Autopilot

Lesson #27: If your flight is going remarkably well, you obviously forgot something.

Lesson #33: Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there.

lnafziger

@OttotheAutopilot That's a great one!

voretaq7

@bretcopeland Step 1: Acquire aircraft. Step 2: Ransom the princess to pay for fuel.

Alternate response: Hey, Jet-A is cheaper than 100LL :-) (as my dreams of stealing a DC-3 are crushed by THAT harsh reality...)

Bret Copeland

01:38

@voretaq7 how many of your aviation dreams involve theft of some sort?

voretaq7

Just that one really. And I'd be all for legitimately acquiring the aforementioned flying beastie too but that leaves me back at needing a princess to ransom for fuel...

lnafziger

02:03

Wow, the 737-300 doesn't even burn twice the fuel of a G-IV... That's kind of surprising....

Steve V.

02:22

!!lesson

Otto the Autopilot

Lesson #32: You know that your landing gear is up and locked when it takes full power to taxi to the terminal.

Steve V.

I wonder why he double-posted previously, but not this time.

lnafziger

Oh, after entering the command, I hit the up arrow and hit enter to resend the command, so he responded twice.

voretaq7

So you're conspiring to make Otto look like he's gone crazy

Steve V.

ah, i see.

Anonymous

02:40

how is our flightaware promotion doing?

lnafziger

Haha, last I saw (earlier today) it had 15 thumbs ups and had attracted a spam post which I reported.

18 now

Anonymous

@lnafziger i guess we could raise a little money and bribe ATC controllers

Anonymous

like "atc, am i clear for takeoff? -Alpha Delta Bravo, your answer is at aviation.se"

Anonymous

:)

lnafziger

@PatoSáinz :-)

voretaq7

02:49

Things I would bribe the FAA for: The tail number "Zero Whisky Alpha Yankee"

(it violates all the N number rules. The FAA won't let me have ANY fun.)

Steve V.

I'd like to have "Mike Mike Mike One Two". Multiple syllables are for the weak.

egid

I have always wondered about how people get away with "triple mike one two".

lnafziger

I used to fly N777YC

Every once in awhile ATC would call us "triple seven yankee charlie".

And some of our pilots would do it too. It always bugged me, even when ATC did it.

voretaq7

@lnafziger and of course you responded with "Who's that?" and faked utter bafflement at the nonstandard phraseology? :)

lnafziger

One pilot checked in with triple-7 and the controller responded with the same. A couple of minutes later the controller came back and said "November Seven Seven Seven Yankee Charlie, the F-A-A requests that you discontinue using the phrase "triple-seven"."

Obviously a fed was in the tower and corrected the controller, lol.

Steve V.

02:57

Somewhere, a Boeing 777 with the tail number Yankee Charlie Four Two Four keeps wondering why the controller is leaving off the rest of his code.

I can't decide if i've actually heard someone call "triple nickel" for 555 whatever whatever, or if I just read it in a book.

voretaq7

@lnafziger <runs through the translation machine> . . . "My shift supervisor just beat me with the ATC phraseology order"

@SteveV. idunno but if someone actually checked in as "fife fife fife" I'd have to bite my tongue to resist asking where the drum and bugle are

lnafziger

lmao

Anonymous

is anyone here also a radio amateur?

Anonymous

also, is it common for pilots to be radio amateurs?

lnafziger

@PatoSáinz I don't know any, but I'm sure that they exist. :)

voretaq7

03:05

@PatoSáinz For most of the people taking flight training around here I think this is probably the first time they ever used a radio (aside from maybe walkie-talkies with friends as kids)

Steve V.

I taught myself morse but decided i didn't have the money to take the test and buy the equipment

voretaq7

most folks get the push to talk bit down pretty quickly - some don't quite get the "click it a fraction of a second before you speak, let it go a fraction of a second after you stop" bit

@SteveV. Most FCC licenses don't require the CW exam anymore

Anonymous

@voretaq7 just a sentiment but having someone with a full FCC radio amateur license would be useful to have as a crewmember

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz meh, not really

Anonymous

@voretaq7 for emergencies, whatever

Steve V.

03:08

I knew that, but i figured Morse was something every boy scout should know. Then again, i was never a boy scout either.

My life is a tragic tale of missed opportunities.

Anonymous

because half of the license is radio per se, the other half is electronics

Steve V.

(:

voretaq7

ATC radio communication is a lot different than talking to your buddies or working morse to someone

Anonymous

also it'd be fun DX :)

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz You aren't going to disassemble your radio in flight. If it fails you're going to switch to com#2 (or fish around in your flight bag for that damn handheld)

and it's AM - the air is the wrong place to DX :-)

Anonymous

03:09

@SteveV. sometime i'd like to learn morse and semaphore

Anonymous

@voretaq7 can you please stop crushing my dreams

Anonymous

thanks

voretaq7

you're basically line-of-sight unless you get your ass on the ground in a swamp with a nice big grounding spike and some nice nighttime sky skips :)

@PatoSáinz Hey - they crush my DC-3 dreams with fuel prices (and the disturbing lack of princesses to ransom) - I'll crush yours with physics :P

Anonymous

oohhh now i remember

Anonymous

there's a new soap opera in my country:

Steve V.

03:10

In the 13 years that i've been flying and teaching, i've seen one occasion when a handheld would have actually been useful.

Anonymous

@SteveV. when

voretaq7

@SteveV. I did my training in a plane that had... "interesting" radio characteristics

Anonymous

@voretaq7 the soap opera is about you

Anonymous

voretaq7

(Like "North of the tower everything's fine. South of the tower ALL OF MY NOPE.")

Anonymous

03:12

"the lord of the skies" ;)

voretaq7

after a few frustrating trips I decided the handheld was good cheap insurance for the days when the plane felt uncooperative

Steve V.

We (my 141 school, not me) sent a student out solo to an airport 54 nm away. She reported difficulties .... are those dollar bills getting sucked into the turbine intake?!?

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Tags airman-certification and flight-training

So we have the following two tags: airman-certification Airman Certification is for questions related to obtaining certificates and ratings for all flight crew members, mechanics, repairmen, aircraft dispatchers, and control tower operators. It includes required paperwork and testing, but ...

discussion tags tag-synonyms

Steve V.

This is the most realistic soap opera ever!

Anonymous

@SteveV. i've got yet to see it

Anonymous

03:14

so atm i don't know if it's all bullshit or just half bullshit

Steve V.

no, look at the image you linked!

voretaq7

@SteveV. "She reported difficulties due to dollar bills getting sucked into the turbine intake?!?" :-)

Steve V.

There's dollar bills getting sucked into the intake

Anonymous

lol

Steve V.

my previous story has been disregarded already

Anonymous

03:14

that's realistic

Steve V.

this is way more interesting

voretaq7

@SteveV. I prefer merging the two

because they sent a student out to solo in a jet :P

Anonymous

plot twist: those dollars are from @voretaq7's DC-3 savings

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz Airplanes do run on money...

@PatoSáinz pfft, all my DC-3 dreams begin with theft and end with prison. (Still cheaper than fueling it.)

Steve V.

Ok, so there's my student with this big bag full of money and she's in our 727, that we keep on the ramp. It's not actually airworthy but she got the wrong set of keys and didn't notice.

So she's off on her third solo, on her way to this towered field.

voretaq7

03:17

@SteveV. Something something ramp full of unairworthy jets? :)

Steve V.

Well, it's kind of a long flight, so she turns on George and settles down for a nap.

voretaq7

@SteveV. No Good Can Come Of This....

Steve V.

(surprisingly that was the only part that was actually not bs; our university keeps getting unairworthy jet aircraft donated to us at a rate of about one per year. The owners take it as a tax write off and we rip it apart as a hands-on for the mx students)

Anonymous

realistic, a jet loaded with cocaine

Anonymous

03:18

would that shit even fly?

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz Cocaine? Sure. Happens all the time. It's how the Kings make money when they're not recording training videos.

@SteveV. Better than chucking them in the desert to not-rust

Anonymous

@voretaq7 i need your expertise with cockpits

Anonymous

it looks strangely uncluttered

Anonymous

thus it isn't real

Steve V.

03:20

Yep. When we're done with them, we donate them to the ARFF and they set them on fire and practice putting them out until there's nothing left.

Anonymous

a cockpit isn't real till it isn't full of clutter with buttons, screens, radios, sensors and lights

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz Not sure what it's supposed to be. But there's a breaker panel behind the seat right about where it usually is on modern jets :P

egid

Shape looks DC-8/9

Steve V.

Simulator?

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz You forgot the chewed up yellow pad you scribble clearances down on and the bag of foggles for when your CFI is feeling bored and wants to try to make you dizzy :-)

Anonymous

03:21

lol

voretaq7

@SteveV. We have one of those in an unused corner of our field. By the condition it's in I think the ARFF guys didn't do so well the last time.

egid

Actually scratch that. Looks gulfstream.

Steve V.

Which field? I'll make sure not to go there the next time i'm on fire.

voretaq7

@SteveV. FRG, it'd be a long trip :P

egid

Same window profile. It's an early G

Steve V.

03:24

Reminds me of a king air. /is lousy at aircraft recog

Anonymous

nope it isn't the same

egid

03:42

I promise, that cockpit interior is a gulfstream.

TV and movies constantly change aircraft type during cuts.

lnafziger

I hate that.

Especially corporate jets where they go from 2 engine to 3 engine and back....

egid

My favorite is the Lear-> hahahah that's what I was typing out

It's a falcon 45XP

!

voretaq7

@lnafziger we needed the extra thrust.

the mid-air transfers are a real pain in the ass though

lnafziger

Or Criminal Minds... They tend to get into a Falcon and then sit down in a Gulfstream or bigger (the windows are different) or something like that.

egid

Airplane! got it right with the radial engine noise

voretaq7

03:45

@lnafziger A380 :-)

Falcons have 3 conference rooms and a bedroom plus a hot tub, right? :)

egid

Cessna Tweet to F-14!

lnafziger

@voretaq7 Obviously

egid

@lnafziger I'd prefer pilot-* tags to airman-* honestly

lnafziger

@egid Yeah, I just replied to that. There is a lot more to aviation training than pilot training.

egid

Any reason those bits wouldn't get other tags? It just seems more specific overall.

lnafziger

03:58

@egid And do we really want pilot-training/certification, mechanic-training/certification, atc-training/certification, etc?

voretaq7

@lnafziger I think we want to separate those things

egid

It would definitely help with organization. I know a lot about pilot training and nothing about mechanics. Or ATC, for that matter.

voretaq7

otherwise people wondering how to become an ATC specialist would have to wade through pilot training stuff

I don't object to pilot-certification and pilot-training though, that seems sensible

egid

I'd follow flight-training or pilot-training. But if airman-training contained ATC or A&P stuff I might not.

lnafziger

nods, okay I can go with that.

The part that I really didn't like was the airman -vs- flight portion of it anyway. So do we want "flight-training" or "pilot-training" considering the other types of training that we have as well?

I'm thinking pilot.

egid

04:01

I guess I mostly just find "airman" a bit gratuitous considering how difficult it can be for women to get into aviation :)

voretaq7

@lnafziger I think pilot and make flight-training a synonym

lnafziger

sounds good to me.

egid

+1

lnafziger

one of you add an answer to the question to that effect? :)

voretaq7

@egid yeah that's my major objection to "airmen certification" (besides the "lumps everyone in" issue)

lnafziger

04:02

Well, they don't call them "airwomen"...

actually, I guess they do

noun: airman; plural noun: airmen; noun: airwoman; plural noun: airwomen
1.
a pilot or member of the crew of an aircraft, esp. in an air force.

egid

I call them "pilots" ;)

voretaq7

@egid but what about mechanics?

(you want to look up a mechanic's records you still contact "airmen certification")

lnafziger

I usually use pilots unless I'm referring to them as a group that includes more than pilots (flight engineers, etc) and then I use "flight crew members" or "crew members" (if it includes more than the flight ones).

@voretaq7 That was my original line of thinking when I wrote up the question.

But I agree that the different tags will be better.

voretaq7

@lnafziger Just because the government bureaucracy lumps everyone into one bucket doesn't mean we have to think like them. Do you REALLY want to think like them?

lnafziger

so we would have mechanic-training and mechanic-certification as well.

@voretaq7 Hey, I agreed with you, you don't need to convince me. :)

voretaq7

04:07

'cuz I hear kitchen-mixer lobotomies hurt.... (poor congresscritters)

@lnafziger Hush! I was looking for a door to insult my congresscritters. Don't slam it shut on me! :P)

lnafziger

@voretaq7 Haha

Okay, I'm off for the night.

Good night all!

voretaq7

nyte

Bret Copeland

04:23

Anyone have feelings about the question @lnafziger asked about airline interviews? I actually really like the question even though I think it's too broad. It's a question I've asked before to an airline pilot friend of mine, and I just sent him a message seeing if he'd be interested in contributing an answer. Hopefully the question doesn't get closed and his first SE experience is highly negative, haha.

egid

@BretCopeland I think that while specific airlines' interviews will differ, the content will be pretty generic

the sim ride is probably the bigger variable really

Bret Copeland

@egid bigger variable as in whether they do one or not, what it's like if they do one?

egid

what the flight is like

i think in general if you make it through the interview, you move on to a sim ride

Bret Copeland

The majors don't always do a sim ride.

(as part of the interview at least)

egid

that's fair

but it's not really what i'd consider as 'part of the interview'

i guess

willflyforfood.com/pilot-interviews/93/American-Eagle.html

these gouges are all pretty good, and relatively consistent across airlines

Bret Copeland

04:30

The friend I was talking about flew for Horizon, and now flies for Southwest. He had to do sim for Horizon, but not for Southwest. He said they figure if you have thousands of flight hours and have already worked for another airline, you can probably fly... and if not they'll discover that in training and fire you.

egid

(CRM, Jeppesen charts, duty limits, etc)

Bret Copeland

They're more interested in how you would deal with crew and passenger problems.

But that is, I guess, why I think it's an interesting question, and probably a more interesting answer.

egid

actually it might be worth specifying whether or not it's a major or regional

reading the gouges, within one type they're similar

Steve V.

@BretCopeland I didn't respond to this because i was busy typing an answer to teh question.

egid

hah, i have a 'what you learned from your failed checkride' story

although it's mostly 'get better at knowing where regs are so you can find them more quickly in the event you don't remember the reg itself'

Steve V.

04:38

"Don't try to bribe a mormon examiner with beer?"

egid

hah, never had one of those

Steve V.

Because that's a guaranteed interview-winner right there. The airlines don't even ask to see your logbooks, they just hand you a hat and tell you when your shift starts.

egid

hah

Bret Copeland

I heard a story from one of my flight instructors about a student of his who was incredibly nervous with an examiner. He was going for his multi-engine license, and the first thing he did after starting up was attempted to raise the landing gear on the ground. For some reason the examiner didn't immediately fail him, but in flight he just kept fiddling with things. When the examiner asked him what he was doing, he said "I don't know."

egid

nice.

that's an expensive brain fart

Steve V.

04:43

Was the response "Neither do i?"

egid

"my controls"

Steve V.

That too.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland that's... probably not the answer they want to hear :)

Bret Copeland

@egid yeah, that's when the examiner took over.

By the way, here's a question that is entirely subjective, and doesn't matter at all... except for the fact that it bothers me. When someone asks you how many hours you had when you got your license (private), do you say the number of hours you had before the practical test, or at the conclusion of it?

Steve V.

Conclusion.

egid

04:48

post-practical

that's when you got your license

Steve V.

Obviously. I got my private after the prop stopped.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland ...the difference is like 1 hour but post-practical seems right :)

up until you shut the engine down you can still blow it by taxiing into a building or something

lnafziger

I usually say "I took my checkride at 40 hours". :)

egid

yeah, 1.3 checkride

53tt

best part was

Steve V.

although, suppose now you're up for a multi-engine add-on, and there's no solo flights required, so you don't do any. Someone asks you how much multi PIC you had when you got your multi.

egid

04:50

i soloed to and from my checkride

Steve V.

You'd say 0.0, not 1.3 or whatever.

egid

so there was a little pressure

Bret Copeland

I guess I think about it because, in theory, people say you can get your license in 40 hours, but if we count it as after the practical, then no one could say that (Part 135 rules excluded).

egid

@BretCopeland well you can get your license at 40 hours :D

Bret Copeland

@egid that's actually really cool.

egid

04:51

you get it in 40+checkride

Yeah, the only examiner at the time that my school liked working with was up in Bellingham

voretaq7

@egid heh I solo'd to/from the one I botched :P how's that for a walk of shame

egid

so I flew .7 KPAE-KBLI, did the oral and the 1.3 checkride, got handed a signed scrap of paper, flew .7 home to KPAE

was fun. if i remember right. it was a while ago :D

Bret Copeland

I had to my practical the day after my oral due to weather. That was disappointing.

egid

yikes, 13 years ago in april.

@BretCopeland that usually sets the stage for a good checkride, honestly

Bret Copeland

I was supposed to get my license on apocalypse day 12-21-2012

voretaq7

04:53

@egid yeah you're much less "worked out" from the oral

egid

(if you were the one who made the decision to scrub the flight, that is)

Steve V.

Agreed, splitting the ride is nice.

egid

@voretaq7 that, and it's a good impression if you made the call

Bret Copeland

The next day, the robotic ATIS voice said "Congratulations, you have survived the apocalypse."

egid

hahah

Bret Copeland

04:53

@egid yeah, it was me.

Steve V.

CFI ride especially. Good lord, that ground.

voretaq7

@egid definitely better than if the examiner felt they had to - that'd be a fail :P

@BretCopeland Our ATIS at Republic is BORRRRRRRINNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG <whines>

egid

@voretaq7 at one point i had to do a ride with the FAA to become asst. chief instructor...

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 pshh, you mean, when it works at all.

egid

at his insistence we wound up (legally) scud running and shooting practice approaches in vfr

voretaq7

04:55

@BretCopeland It always works.... except when it's broken :P

egid

it was a pretty weird experience

voretaq7

@egid that's.... odd

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 70% of the time works every time.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland 50%.

Stop being generous :P

egid

@voretaq7 scheduling issues. and it was 100% legal. approach FAF was 2000msl, clouds were 2600msl.

Bret Copeland

04:56

@voretaq7 I'm not a Server Fault guy, I can't help it.

voretaq7

actually lately it's been "broken" because they seem to take forever to record the new ones.

egid

heh

> yeah, center, i've got the 93 minute weather

voretaq7

@egid naw our ATIS is funky - apparently the stupid system they use when you start recording the new one it stops playing the old one

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 yeah, I love the system of: both ground and ATIS are going to be unavailable for about 15 minutes until the ground controller can get a recording he's happy with.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland <Angry Russian Accent>***IS GOOD SYSTEM!*** Ground controller needs coffee break. You sit and burn avgas now!</Angry Russian Accent>

Actually that's part of the problem is ground starts talking to people in the middle of the recording (which means the recording is hosed and they have to start over)

Bret Copeland

04:58

Please advise on initial contact you have no information.

^ they should just broadcast that at all times.

lnafziger

I always like it when I have Mike and approach keeps asking if I have Lima.

"No, I have Mike." "Advise Lima"

hrmmmm

voretaq7

@BretCopeland they should broadcast when they get a new "developmental controller"

(I'm not sure if people would go easier on them or start hazing them, but it would be nice to have a warning...)

egid

@voretaq7 i think that's a lot of ATIS systems

except ground usually doesn't take that long :P

ours is usually down for... 4 minutes?

55-59 or so, and it's up right on the hour

voretaq7

I'm from New York dammit - I already have to switch to "slow mode" to talk to you people on the damn radio, when it's a newbie I have to switch into "talking-to-the-dog mode"

egid

@lnafziger just loop through and let them know tomorrow

voretaq7

05:01

@egid ours is 4-7 minutes on a good day (down at 53, up by the hour). On a bad day... well the record is 2 hours but to be fair they did have a power glitch and I think that fried the ATIS machine....

egid

'hey we got lima this morning, just thought you would like to know'

lnafziger

@egid lol, nice.

Bret Copeland

Boise's automated ATIS system died once. Just dead. And then they recorded a human version, and it worked for about ten minutes and gradually lost power until it was also dead. It was a pretty good system.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland . . . "gradually lost power"?

egid

"advise lima" "roger. you work tomorrow too, then?"

lnafziger

05:02

Alright, I'm outta here. Have a good night!

voretaq7

were they broadcasting it through someone's handheld?

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 yep, like the recording was clear for a little bit and then just got scratchy and disappeared entirely. (and no, I wasn't flying away)

voretaq7

@BretCopeland . . . well, idunno.... that seems kinda ghetto, but not as ghetto as Republic's apparently not having a UPS or anything.

Bret Copeland

Yeah, it does seem plausible that they sent someone up in a Cessna who was just constantly reporting weather and airport information as he flew away on his cross country.

voretaq7

hah

"Quick, get in the 152 and circle at 3000 feet. And keep reading this on the ATIS frequency!"

Bret Copeland

05:05

Cirrus 816BV do you have November? Affirmative. Great, I'm gonna need you to repeat it as long as possible.

@voretaq7 I'm pretty sure I've accidentally tried to broadcast on ATIS before. I assume most people have... right?

voretaq7

@BretCopeland I don't think I've ever broadcast on the ATIS frequency (I usually have ATIS in com2 and twr/gnd in com1), but I've been on ground when trying to call tower inbound :)

though at Republic it's kinda hard to tell the difference between ATIS and Tower - on the ATIS frequency you have one monotonous voice that won't shut up, and on Tower you have a bunch of voices that won't shut up :-)

Bret Copeland

I think the one time I did it was the first flight I talked on the radio, and we were flying back. We got ATIS information and I was about to call approach, and just keyed the mic for a second and started to say something, but realized rather quickly I was an idiot.

egid

my favorite is when somebody's got a stuck mic on ground and you can hear the whole conversation

well, half of it

voretaq7

@egid My favorite is when airline crews do that while badmouthing the controllers...

(like seriously, don't people look at the little "T" or red light or whatever on their radios?

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 it's the only thing I look at. My instructors say I have a problem with fixation.

voretaq7

05:13

@BretCopeland I stare at the little red light in the middle of my panel. I like to make it blink, but my passengers won't stop screaming when I do....

egid

@voretaq7 do you make the stall horn sound yourself when it lights up?

voretaq7

@egid nah, but I've been thinking about having them wire a buzzer up in parallel :)

I do kinda miss that anemic "beeeeeeeeeeeeep?"

egid

i love that cessna stall horns are a reed

so weird

'yeah just pipe a shitty clarinet into the cabin headliner'

voretaq7

like "Um... ya gonna do something about this? Maybe? Huh? No? OK well I'll just shake a little and sink until you stop being a dick..."

@egid it's more effective than the lift detector if you've got a good ear :)

egid

it's from an era where nobody wore headsets

voretaq7

05:16

so's the stupid cabin speaker.

(most useless half pound of equipment EVER.)

Bret Copeland

So, do you guys like the weightless (roller coaster) feeling? I always figured most pilots, including myself, do. Passengers are much more mixed, and I try not to put them through that unless they want to... but other pilots I know are more sinister.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland I'm generally ambivalent about it honestly. I occasionally like doing the pencil/tennis ball/whatever-the-hell-I-have-handy trick though :)

egid

i definitely try to behave in line with the commercial pilot certificate i hold when passengers are with me

especially since most of them are new to flying

voretaq7

I'm also not a ZOMG RACE THE NOSE TO THE HORIZON WITH THE YOKE kinda guy - at least in the cherokee if you just stop being a dick and let the pressure off the plane starts flying again :)

@egid you know the guys who fly the vomit comet probably have commercial ratings too.... I'm Just Sayin' ::ShoulderDevil::

Bret Copeland

@egid that wasn't an answer to the question, haha

egid

05:20

;P

voretaq7

@BretCopeland I think he's trying to say "I charge them extra for that." :-D

egid

@BretCopeland i like it but don't inflict it on others

:)

Bret Copeland

I've had some passengers who would have wanted to do nothing but that the entire flight had I allowed it.

Sometimes have to explain that gravity is important for feeding fuel into the engine.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland that's what the pumps are for :)

egid

oil is the bigger problem :)

voretaq7

05:24

@egid yeah, extended periods at zero or negative G would probably unport my oil pickup before the fuel pickups :)

Bret Copeland

@egid that's a good point.

egid

although the carb doesn't like inverted/negative-g flight either

Miss Shilling's orifice

Miss Shilling's Orifice was a very simple technical device made to counter engine cut-out in early Spitfire and Hurricane fighter aeroplanes during the Battle of Britain. While it was officially called the R.A.E restrictor, it was normally referred to under various names, such as Miss Tilly's Diaphragm or the Tilly orifice in reference to its inventor, Beatrice "Tilly" Shilling. Engine cut out problems The early versions of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine came equipped with a SU carburettor. When these aeroplanes performed a negative G force manoeuvre (pitching the nose hard down), fuel...

ah, British turns of phrase.

voretaq7

@egid land of the double-entendre :)

Bret Copeland

Do you think they had to do anything special to the 727 they use for the Zero G flights? (or the one NASA used - KC-135?)

egid

g meter? ;)

voretaq7

05:26

@BretCopeland I'd assume they did a study to determine them adequate and/or beefed up the wing structure a little. And almost certainly a G meter

turbine engines I think would be generally less perturbed by zero-G maneuvers (?)

egid

then again maybe they fly by the seat of their pants

Bret Copeland

I wonder how much stress the parabolic cycles put on the airframe over time.

egid

@voretaq7 basically only carburetors have issues with fuel flow, and oil is an issue for longer durations

voretaq7

@egid and the oil system, but turbines would have pressurized oil systems anyway

Bret Copeland

I guess it's just 1.8G on the pull up. I thought it was more.

voretaq7

05:29

@BretCopeland yeah it's not the force I'd worry about so much as the number of cycles

I wonder if they have a finite wing spar life...

Bret Copeland

Also, don't 727's have bad stall characteristics because of the T-Tail? Seems like an odd choice for that purpose if that actually is the case.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland "deep stalls" yeah - but they shouldn't have to stall it to get the parabola

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 you love disaster porn. Did you see the video of when they intentionally crashed a 727 for test purposes?

voretaq7

@BretCopeland the NASA one yeah

Bret Copeland

yeah, that was pretty cool.

voretaq7

05:34

NASA SMASH!

►

@SteveV. Which is colder, -40 C or -40 F? <- they really ask that? :)

Steve V.

I should delete that one.

that wasnt really representative of the rest of the interview

but yes

voretaq7

it's a delightful question. I heartily approve :-)

roe

07:52

@voretaq7 The correct answer is probably to chuckle.. :)

Danny Beckett

11:31

Somebody please take me flying for my birthday today? :D

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