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Anonymous
1:03 AM
@voretaq7
 
Anonymous
Alright then I'm also gonna see if I can put airbags in the landing gear to make the plane drop and rise along with the bass ;) — Pato Sáinz 18 secs ago
 
Anonymous
sorry i just couldn't
 
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
1:19 AM
0
Q: Ambiguous tag: auto-rotation

Jeff BridgmanI was about to edit the tag summary for auto-rotation, but then realized it has two different meaning in context of aviation. One for helicoptors an another for fixed-wing aircraft. Should one or the other get preference? Or should we really create two separate, but equal tags (e.g. autorotation...

discussion tags
 
 
1 hour later…
lnafziger
lnafziger
2:28 AM
!!teachmetofly
 
Otto the Autopilot
Otto the Autopilot
Lesson #29: When a crash seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slowly and gently as possible.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@DannyBeckett: Tell Otto: "When landing engine-out at night, if you don't like what you see as you are about to land, just turn off the landing light."
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
2:49 AM
@egid What up dog?
 
egid
egid
3:01 AM
Just missing half a question like usual ;)
Answering from a phone is not the most effective technique
I never calc VDP manually so I kinda didn't think about that
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
Yeah, I answer from my phone sometimes too and it isn't a very good way to do it, lol.
 
egid
egid
(It's charted on almost all the approaches I fly)
Not teaching actively has definitely cut down on the variety I'm exposed to.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
Well, that's one thing about what I do. I get exposed to a lot of different situations...
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
3:50 AM
@DannyBeckett From what you mentioned to me earlier, my guess is you haven't used GitHub all that much. (Apologies if I'm mistaken.) May I suggest that you enable GitHub issue tracking on Otto?
It's much superior to keeping a to-do list in the source.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@DannyBeckett @SteveV. Yes, please use GitHub issue tracking!
What's up Steve?
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
hiya! i'm currently slacking. I have 18 hours until the class I'm supposed to teach this semester (Aviation Meteorology) first meets. I suppose I ought to have a syllabus or something...
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
Haha, well as long as you know the first day you'll be okay for now.
Where do you teach?
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
A public university with the 3rd best 4-year aviation degree program in the country, according to our marketing department.
We gloss over the 3rd-best part.
Hint: It's not ERAU or UND.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
Hmm, so if I wasn't going to ERAU or UND, where would I go?
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
3:57 AM
(I'm curious to see whether you actually guess right...it'd be kind of nice to know whether public perception lines up with our internal kool-aid)
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
Well, I learned at a small uncontrolled field, and didn't go to any of the aviation schools so I'm really out of touch with what people consider the "best" ones.
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
Ahh, cool. I actually grew up in NW Ohio.
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
No kidding! Cool!
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
(Defiance, OH to be more specific)
 
egid
egid
4:03 AM
@SteveV. Hah, I went to UND ;)
I very much enjoyed my two met classes
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
@egid Can't decide if genuine or if you enjoyed them for the quality snooze time they afforded. Either way (:
The trouble that i have is that the class is a requirement for pilots, mechanics, ops, and ATC students.
 
egid
egid
No, I liked it a lot. I didn't get the best grades in them but I liked the subject matter and the prof
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
So here i am explaining a METAR, the pilots are all sleeping and the others are frantically scribbling to keep up.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
I actually hated aviation weather when I was learning to fly. Then, the more that I learned the more that I started to like it. It's a complicated system that intrigues me now.
 
egid
egid
Heh, just make the Aviation Weather Products AC required reading and let any exams be open book
:D
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
4:08 AM
@lnafziger Would you like a teletype? :-)
 
egid
egid
That way if they read the book, they've got a better chance at decoding things in time.
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
@lnafziger Did you hate Aviation Weather as in AC 00-6 or weather services as in AC 00-45G?
 
egid
egid
AC00-6 is a classic. Seriously. The illustrations are awesome.
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
@egid exactly
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@SteveV. Well, since I never took classes, judging by the names I hated both, lol.
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
4:09 AM
That's what the class is. All open book except the final, because i'm not allowed to make the final open-book.
 
egid
egid
I actually have my dad's copy from the 70s. It's identical.
Just printed on classier stock.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@SteveV. I think that the main problem is that it was just all new information, and everything that I was introduced to just had to be memorized. The systems didn't even exist in my mind yet, it was just rote memorization...
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
The classics never change...i have an e6-b from 1954 that's identical to the one I got when i began flight training.
 
egid
egid
Yeah, @lnafziger, that's a good point. It needs to be introduced as it's relevant.
Not enough SBT stuff in the ground school topics IMO
Or in the case of universities, it can be hard to stay in sync
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
"how does fog form", "what are the stages of a thunderstorm", etc... Good information when you understand them from a broader perspective, but as a flight student, it's just crap to memorize, lol.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
4:11 AM
@egid There's a video that goes along with AC 00-6, I think airboyd has it on his youtube channel :)
 
egid
egid
One of my old roommates teaches in the The OSU aviation program
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@SteveV. I think there has been exactly one material innovation in the E6B since the original US Army design approval
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
guessing Density altitude window?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@SteveV. . . . ok 2.
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
^__^
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
4:13 AM
aprindustries.com/index.php/Products/… <-- SO much nicer than using pencil dots
2
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
Holy balls, that's brilliant.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
I KNOW RIGHT?!
 
egid
egid
@voretaq7 too many moving parts :P
I like my metal tank thank you very much
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@egid its one more moving part grandpa :)
and no more "Fuck where'd my pencil go?"
 
egid
egid
Bah you can use pen just as easily. Anyway, don't you use a kneeboard? What'd ya write on that with?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
4:20 AM
@egid one of the um.... like 6 pencils I have in the plane :P
but the erasers on those never work
(At what point do the pencils stuffed in the side & seat pockets become a weight-and-balance issue? Should I leave them in there when I get the plane re-weighed after paint? :P)
also WHY DO PENCIL ERASERS TURN INTO BRICKS IF YOU LEAVE THEM IN A PLANE?! Stupid pencil manufacturers....
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
pencils are for people who make mistakes. I carry exactly one of these and it's all you need
Space Pen
The Space Pen (also known as the Zero Gravity Pen), marketed by Fisher Space Pen Company, is a pen that uses pressurized ink cartridges and is able to write in zero gravity, underwater, over wet and greasy paper, at any angle, and in a very wide range of temperatures. The Fisher Space Pen was invented by American industrialist and pen manufacturer Paul C. Fisher and is manufactured in Boulder City, Nevada, United States of America. Paul C. Fisher first patented the AG7 "anti gravity" pen in 1965. Pens claiming some or all of the same abilities have also appeared on the market from other m...
...i did not know that wikipedia links are oneboxed.
Good pilot :: always learning.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
(and no, it doesn't leak in the plane)
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
I just bought my first fountain pen(s) about two weeks ago.
Nothing fancy, just a disposable Pilot Varsity from staples...but i'm surprised how much easier it is to write with.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@SteveV. I can't write with ballpoint pens, so my options are limited to those or rollerballs
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
Can't? Why?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
4:33 AM
@SteveV. RSI
the amount of pressure I need to apply to make ballpoints write means I can do maybe a page before my hand is shot
rollerballs are better, but I can write all day with even my crappiest fountain pen
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
ah gotcha
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
It did take me a while to find an ink that would write on the shit paper in my logbook without bleeding through though :P
 
egid
egid
@voretaq7 lick your finger, wipe off the pencil from the E6B
crazy!
;P
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@egid . . . I'm not licking that finger. I know where it's been.
 
egid
egid
:|
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
4:42 AM
Explains the RSI though.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
What? You don't check your exhaust stack for critters? :)
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
Sure, if that's what they're calling it nowadays...
 
egid
egid
i tap on it during preflight. if it rings, it's empty.
* theoretically
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@egid ...if not it will be after the engine fires a few times. KITTEN CANNON!
 
egid
egid
CLEAR! <foomp>
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
4:46 AM
I had to chase a feral cat off my car this morning
like "Um, kitty, you're cute and all, but if you sit there behind my front tire you WILL become a greasy spot in the parking lot when I pull out..."
 
egid
egid
5:04 AM
@lnafziger it looks like at least one method for computing RAIM is to constantly compare sets of 4 satellites (of those in view) to each other
which is why you need at least 5 for fault detection
and 6 to loop through a couple of sets to identify the faulty vehicle
actually i have no idea
 
Steve V.
Steve V.
5:24 AM
Related, the best way that I've ever seen to visualize how GPS works in a simple way is the EVE Online scanning minigame.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@egid yeah, I get the theory. I just can't find the actual math/formula.
 
egid
egid
heh i figured
just trying to think through it myself
it seems like the bigger question is, if you use that method, how much error is an error
4
Q: Walking away from an autorotation

SimonWhen I learned to fly helicopters, I of course spent significant time learning about and practicing autorotations. The CFI at my school, who had around 15,000 hrs (that's right, fifteen thousand!) said a few times that practice, knowledge and currency are vital — but as long as you got the entry...

safety helicopter auto-rotation
attempted to clean this up a bit more
 
egid
egid
6:17 AM
i really wish ForeFlight would license SkyVector's worldwide data
 
roe
roe
7:17 AM
@egid not that skyvectors world wide data is any good...
 
 
2 hours later…
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
9:05 AM
@egid, you're idea of RAIM compairing groups of satellites is not far from the truth.
If the different groups give positions that are further apart than x NM (depending on the geometry) then a fault is assumed
However, with a high number of satellites that is a bit inefficient. You would end up with too many possible combinations. Therefore a mathematical solution is chosen where you identify how far the GPS position is influenced by each satellite, compared to the influence expected based on the geometry.
You then need to calculate the probability that the observed signals would be possible when all satellites are healthy. If the probability is very low, a fault is declared.
 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
10:09 AM
@SteveV. @lnafziger Hey, issue tracking is definitely something we should be using. I've enabled it in GitHub and moved 11 issues to it, from my to-do list. Thanks for the suggestion
@lnafziger Lol! Nice! I'll add that
 
 
3 hours later…
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
1:07 PM
This Day in Aviation: 13 January 2012
posted on January 13, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

13 January 2012: This McDonnell Douglas F-15E-47-MC Strike Eagle, 89-0487, became the first F-15 to have logged over 10,000 flight hours. During Operation Desert Storm, Captains Tim Bennett and Dan Bakke, USAF, flying this F-15E, used a GBU-10 Paveway II 2,000-pound laser-guided bomb to “shoot down” an Iraqi Mi-24 Hind attack helicopter.  -487 is the […] The post 13 January 20…

This Day in Aviation: 14 January 1950
posted on January 14, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

14 January 1950: The Mikoyan Gurevich prototype fighter I 330 SI made its first flight with test pilot Ivan Ivashchenko. It would be developed into the MiG 17. The MiG 17 was an improved version of the earlier MiG 15. It was a single-seat, single engine fighter armed with cannon, and capable of high subsonic […] The post 14 January 1950 appeared first on This Day in Aviation.

 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
Notice: Myself and @roe have now switched the bot to using NOAA as the data source for !!metar and !!taf - !!weather continues to use ADDS as its data source (for now)
 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
1:42 PM
Also: !!teachmetofly has now been updated with all suggestions (lessons 44 - 51)
 
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
2:16 PM
This Day in Aviation: 14 January 1962
posted on January 14, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

14 January 1961: Lt. Col. Harold E. Confer, Lt. Col. Richard Weir and Major Howard Bialas, flying Convair B-58A-10-CF Hustler 59-2441, Roadrunner, obliterated the FAI closed-course speed records established only two days earlier by another B-58 crew flying 59-2442. They averaged 2,067.58 kilometers per hour (1,284.73 miles per hour) over a 1,000 kilometer closed circuit, more […] The post…

 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
3:15 PM
@lnafziger Please send me a SHA512 hash of your IP address - the ability to access the PHP dir of the bot is now restricted to a whitelist of IPs (sorry for sending this message here instead of the other room; your name didn't pop up in there)
 
Anonymous
3:31 PM
@voretaq7 @SteveV. space pens are lol, because america spent a lot developing them while russia just used graphite pencils :)
 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
4:10 PM
!!teachmetofly
 
Otto the Autopilot
Otto the Autopilot
Lesson #12: To land: Airspeed, Centerline, PAPI (repeat)
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
4:45 PM
@PatoSáinz We used pencils too - we spent upwards of $100/pencil on the first contract (HOORAY GOVERNMENT SPENDING). We stopped using them after we realized fires onboard spacecraft are Bad and graphite burns very well. The Fisher Space Pen was developed by that company without government funding, and cost something like $3/pen :)
 
Anonymous
lol
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
So when you tell that story remember it's not that Americans spent millions on a pen and those commie bastards used pencils - it's that Americans spent $100+ on each pencil, lovingly approved and wrapped in red tape, while those commie bastards just grabbed one off the desk on their way to the capsule :)
 
Anonymous
holy shit i can feel the nsa on top of me at this very moment
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
:13184244 we're working on it! It takes time to run a government into the ground! :)
 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
5:15 PM
can't figure out whether that's a joke
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DannyBeckett the cookie machine? Seems legit.
It should do the mixing though. Half-assed automation is worse than no automation.
 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
yeah the cookie machine, lol... It should definitely mix :p
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
also, now I want cookies!
:'(
 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
me too :(
lol
been trying to figure out how to make the best popcorn in a pot...
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
 
Danny Beckett
Danny Beckett
5:20 PM
I can never get it sweet enough
got to go! seeya later
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
5:55 PM
Ooooooh...... /cc @egid and anyone else who may need to be doing avionics upgrades for 2020 :)
 
egid
egid
6:18 PM
interesting
wonder how steep the rates will be :)
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@egid that's my question. I can get personal loans at 6-7% easily enough.
but if they through out 3% / 5 years or something equally attractive - hell I'll take it :P
the other option I'm considering is cutting a cheque off the credit card when I do the big (GPS) piece - 3% vig, no CC interest for the first year, then I take out a smaller loan for whatever I haven't paid off by the end.
 
egid
egid
6:34 PM
@OttotheAutopilot what if there is no PAPI? :P
27
Aviation – aviation.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for aircraft pilots, mechanics, and enthusiasts.

Currently in public beta.

busted 500 a day!
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
6:54 PM
@egid Then you crash :P
 
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
7:09 PM
This Day in Aviation: 14 January 1973
posted on January 14, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

14 January 1973: A McDonnell F-4B-28-MC Phantom II, Bu. No. 153068, flown by Lieutenant Victor T. Kovaleski and Ensign D.H. Plautz of VF-161 Chargers, from the aircraft carrier USS Midway (CVA-41), was hit by 85 mm anti-aircraft artillery approximately 10 miles south of Thanh Hóa, North Vietnam. The aircraft began leaking fuel and after flying offshore, […] The post 14 January 1973 appear…

 
egid
egid
7:32 PM
anybody messed with SkyDemon before?
it's a primarily European-oriented, VFR-only EFB/planning app
interesting ui / choices
not great but love the vector charts
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@egid Why can't NACO provide vectorized chart data?
 
Anonymous
8:22 PM
@voretaq7 I've got two guilty pleasures I must confess:
 
Anonymous
a) I like TMZ
 
Anonymous
b) I watch Grey's Anatomy
 
egid
egid
@voretaq7 i'm not sure - i imagine the sectionals/etc are raster, and that's what consumers of their data get
jeppesen keeps their own object database, it seems
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@egid the rendered sectionals are all raster
but they're generated from databases that are presumably not just photos of old charts :)
 
egid
egid
i'm actually not sure there's any evidence that the source is not raster :)
they certainly appear to be hand-shaded, etc
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
8:36 PM
@egid the actual airport data and such is (or was, as of 2010) stored on a Postgres database
there was a talk about it at PG East 2010
 
egid
egid
i don't doubt that part
but the basemap appears to be a raster source :)
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@egid I think the terrain is imported from USGS data
but that's probably hand-drawn contour maps on genuine vellum :P
 
egid
egid
almost definitely
 
 
1 hour later…
lnafziger
lnafziger
10:07 PM
@DeltaLima Funny, but not really an answer. :-)
1
A: Where are the first structural damages after maximum speed is passed?

DeltaLimaQ: Which link of a chain will fail first when you exceed the maximum design tension? A: The weakest link. It could be any link since none is designed as the weakest link.

 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@lnafziger it's about the best answer you can give actually :-)
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@voretaq7 True, but it's really un-answerable (ie Too Broad)
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@lnafziger agreed - I threw a close vote on it
it could possibly be reworked but it's a deep aerodynamics/engineering question in its other form
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@voretaq7 Yup
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
I'm going on a tag wiki spree again today -- at some point we'll need to go through the list and apply synonyms or retag things (I already consolidated maintenance -> aircraft-maintenance again)
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
10:24 PM
@voretaq7 Nice. I want to do the faa-regulations thing, but with as many questions as we have now it will take more work unless we get a moderator to rename the appropriate tags.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@lnafziger mods don't get magical tag-renaming powers (we have to bribe developers) -- just the ability to create instant synonyms (which can be used as a ghetto rename I guess)
normally we just retag stuff :)
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@voretaq7 Oh, I thought that they could rename them. Well, we should probably do it soon then before we get more questions, lol.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
10:38 PM
Wow, I didn't expect my answer to generate so much controversy:
3
Q: What happens in a stall during a slip?

maimouIn flight training we're warned against skidding turns since they have a higher potential for a stall/spin (the classic example being the stall/spin on the base to final turn). However, how does the airplane behave during a stall entered from a slip? It's a cross-controlled condition, but sinc...

aerodynamics spins stall
@voretaq7 Should the tag be pre-flight or preflight? Also, in your tag wiki you use it both ways. :)
I don't think there's supposed to be a hyphen (even though it gets used that way all the time)
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
@voretaq7 @lnafziger mods can rename tags. I've done it before.
Technically it's merging two tags, but you can choose to delete the old one in the process.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@BretCopeland Cool, thanks!
@BretCopeland Did you get my message the other day about the tag synonyms?
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
@lnafziger message?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@BretCopeland yeah you can merge one way or the other, but you have to have 2 tags to play with. you couldn't rename A to B without B existing
@lnafziger I have no strong feelings either way (which is why I use it both ways in the wiki :-) I've also seen it both ways - the cherokee POH says "pre-flight", the AFM for my plane says preflight. GO INTERNAL CONSISTENCY! :-)
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
@voretaq7 I believe that is incorrect.
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
10:46 PM
@BretCopeland Yeah, here on chat. Lemme find it
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@BretCopeland I could be wrong, it's been a while since I've had to rename a tag.... <looks for a suitable victim on Server Fault - we have LOTS of shitty tags :-P>
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@BretCopeland you are correct sir! The tag merge beast will take a nonexistent destination tag :)
I resolve to abuse this newfound power on Server Fault one night after a few glasses of scotch to clean up some of the baddest tags
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
@lnafziger are we happy with air-traffic-control being the primary?
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@BretCopeland Well, I think we need to pick one or the other.. We have air-traffic-control and crm, lol.
Most of them seem to be going with the abbreviation though, so personally I think that it should be atc just to be somewhat consistent.
That being said, I don't feel strongly about it either way (although I usually tend to "vote" for consistency when there is no strong reason either way).
Alright, leaving work now. Talk to you guys later!
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
10:51 PM
@lnafziger synonyms take care of fixing what people type - as far as which should be the primary I kind of favor air-traffic-control and cockpit-resource-management or crew-resource-management (pick your poison)
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@voretaq7 The only problem is that a lot of them are too long to spell out, and then we end up with 1/2 & 1/2.... I hate that idea....
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
mainly because from an IT/business background when I see "CRM" it takes me about 3 seconds to context-switch and realize we're talking about "don't stab the co-pilot with a pointy stick", not "customer relationship management software that makes you want to stab yourself with a pointy stick"
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
What I'm not certain is if air-traffic-control is the primary tag, and someone tags a question with atc whether for SEO we will prefix the html title with atc or air-traffic-control
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@voretaq7 In fact, both of your expanded CRM tags are too long to create.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@BretCopeland I believe it goes to the parent tag (air-traffic-control) which would suck for SEO for a big part of our target audience...
hmmmm <prods tag interface>
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
10:53 PM
@voretaq7 why would it suck for SEO?
 
lnafziger
lnafziger
@voretaq7 25 characters max. :)
Anyway, that's my main argument.. Gotta go for now though, talk to you all later!
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
tags still don't suggest based on the short wiki huh? :P
@BretCopeland well it only sucks if Google isn't smart enough to expand "Talking to ATC" -> "Talking to Air Traffic Control" to catch the tag prefix
@lnafziger and no unicode or capital letters! They spoil all my fun :-(
apropos of nothing: Why the hell do we still call it "search engine optimization"? Can't we just be honest and call it "Google-Grooming"? I mean who really cares about Altavista anymore? :P
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
@voretaq7 I think having the long-form in general is better in terms of SEO, mostly because it's less ambiguous. Google, and presumably others do a pretty good job on abbreviations if they can figure out what you mean.
@voretaq7 it's just the word optimization which really bothers me.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@BretCopeland I like the long form because otherwise our tag lines will look like alphabet soup - FAA ATC CRM FAR-91 FAR-61 :P
you don't realize what a fetish aviation has for acronyms until you see them all on a tag line :-)
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
11:03 PM
<world ends> :-P
 
Bret Copeland
Bret Copeland
@voretaq7 fuck. I knew this was a bad idea.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@BretCopeland <HGG>it's just the world. The mice built a fully functional backup just in case something like this happened.</HGG>
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 how long did it take you to grew tired of /review/?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@PatoSáinz here, or on Server Fault?
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 both
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
11:12 PM
here it's not so bad. On server fault about 30 seconds :)
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 since you've got access to the review queues, how is SF's eternal weekend going?
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
I would like to point out that I am not a football fan. I know next to nothing about the sport except it's frequently played on Sundays. This year I know when the superbowl is because the FAA has been kind enough to email me and explain to me that it will be fucking up the NY-area airspace.
So there's that to say for government services :-)
@PatoSáinz <looks> 31 close votes - about normal
 
Anonymous
lol
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
11:25 PM
@lnafziger That weakest link answer wasn't from me, it was the first sip of whisky speaking :-P
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DeltaLima lightweight! My whisky doesn't gain control of my typing until at least the second glass! :)
Also: The flap attach hinges are the weakest link. Goodbye Flaps!
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
@voretaq7 it's just that the first sip of whisky that gets me straight into relax mode. Control of my typing requires a bit more than that.
The flap attach hinges are the weakest link indeed. But they usually don't get much strain unless flaps are extended
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DeltaLima something something mechanical flaps something something you'll feel something's wrong if you pull the lever above Vfe :)
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
That's why Airbus has flap overspeed protection which basically means auto-retract if Vfe is exceeded
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DeltaLima Airbeese have flap overspeed protection because they're the Fisher Price Baby's First Airframe of the fleet. It's not going to let you break it :-)
(nothing against airbus, they make perfectly cromulent aircraft. Except the whole "no cross-feedback on the sticks" thing. THAT was a bad design decision right there!)
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
11:37 PM
And don't forget about the auto-thrust system that don't moves the thrust levers...
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DeltaLima yeah. that's another great one. doesn't it require you to match the levers to the current commanded thrust before you can punch off auth-thrust though?
Meanwhile, at the Boeing design table: "Hey, you know the autothrottles and auto-trim could like totally sever someone's hand.... meh, serves 'em right for not paying attention!"
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
Actually I don't know how that exactly works. I'll ask one of my colleges tomorrow
Or just silently go into flare mode while no one is paying attention (which really a f*ckup by Turkish airlines)
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DeltaLima "Oh hey it's landing time now!"
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
I think in general the Boeing aircraft require you to be on the ball most of the time. Which is more tiring, but at least it won't catch you by surprise so often.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
I'm really not anti-automation, but I'm very much a "Please move the controls to where the computer is putting them" kind of guy. I hate the drive-by-wire throttle in my car.
@DeltaLima IDK, I think you can kick back and do nothing just as much on a Boeing as you can on an Airbus - its just on the Boeing you're gonna see controls moving while the autopilot does its thing
and I like that, because you'll go "ya know that trim wheel has been rolling nose-up for the last 10 minutes. It doesn't normally do that..."
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
11:44 PM
@Vo
@voretaq7 The Boeing let's you be more aware of what is going on. And that helps in the awareness. Airbus let's pilots guess sometimes. But the automation in the Airbusses is really optimizing the flight, which is a big advantage
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DeltaLima you can have the same level of automation while maintaining control position feedback for the price of a few linear (or rotary) actuators :)
It's stuff like the Air France incident (where the two pilots were giving the computer contradictory inputs, but neither knew what the other was commanding) that really bug me. Clearly some engineer did not do a proper FMEA
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
@voretaq7 Yes sure, but the design philosophy at Boeing differs a lot from Airbus.
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
Boeing is definitely more "old-school airplane" than Airbus
Airbus strikes me as a company where everyone should take a day off and read about the Therac-25
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
Boeing cockpits are much more a collection of pieces, while Airbus has a total flightdeck concept that affects every piece
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
then come back to work and spend the entire day looking at safety-critical interlocks.
@DeltaLima mmh, I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, though I can't say I entirely disagree either.
Airbus builds an aircraft designed around automation.
Boeing builds an aircraft, and then automates it.
 
egid
egid
11:52 PM
i've met a few of the boeing flight deck design team
their work is definitely still a complete concept, it's just a concept that's vastly different from Airbus
 
DeltaLima
DeltaLima
@egid starting with the 777 they have moved to a complete concept, before it was very much a collection of pieces. B737 (especially older generation) vary vastly between operators, and even sometime within a fleet. The differences between airbusses, even different model are very limited
 
voretaq7
voretaq7
@DeltaLima I don't know that I'd call them "collections of pieces", but 737 cockpit photos I've seen (even the Max series) certainly look like an older cockpit design
 

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