@AncientSwordRage Most traditional Fate advice isn't going to necessarily help a whole lot, because it's more pointed at character creation. When trying to fit an existing character to it, maybe it might be better to just make a list of strengths and weaknesses overall and see which ones tend to group together, then try to summarize them. And keep in mind you want a variety - some things to tie into your current place in the game world, some to your personality or foibles, some to another character.

@Glazius that's some good advice (you and @BESW)

The aspect doesn't have to say everything related to it out loud: it's a tag on a narrative concept, and all that it needs to do is be an effective reminder of something important about the character.

That means figuring out what the group will easily remember about the something, and what the group will need the reminder for.

I am enjoying the puzzle element of making a fate character as almost a dry run, sans group but it's a big change feeling I am better of checking stuff with real living people and not a book

(And, of course, the only important parts of the narrative the aspect is tagging, are the bits that are likely to give permissions, grant bonuses, complicate scenes, etc. If something is true but not likely to engage with the story or the mechanics, it can be left as pure narrative.)

@BESW oooh that's made a loud click in my brain

@AncientSwordRage Yeah, that was a big shock when we moved from D&D to Fate: the almost complete collapse of character creation as private play.

@BESW until very recently being chronically without a group 'character creation as private play' has been great for me

@AncientSwordRage This is one reason I appreciate aspect categories like "relationship" or "trouble" or "motive." They give context to the aspect so I don't have to cram it into the tag.

@AncientSwordRage I recently saw a conversation among developers about recognizing private play as an aspect of game-making that can be designed for, rather than emerging out of other design priorities.

@BESW that's interesting

@BESW I think if I actually went though they book, with or without a group I'd have a better time because I'd hit those categories

Depends on the book. FAE/Core don't use aspect categories by default, except for "trouble."

@BESW ahhh I assumed of missed it in skimming

I wish they'd been in, I might've "gotten" a lot of the system faster.

High Concept is a little nebulous

But I get why they aren't: aspect labels define the kind of character you play and what kind of stories you're telling, so for a "generic engine" like FAE or Core, they can be iffy.

This d&d character could easily combine them both

The best kind of aspect label, in my opinion, is one which says "everyone in your game shares [quality] and it will be important to the story, but how does your character express it?"

Like how Masters of Umdaar wants everybody to have an aspect that explains WHY they've chosen this dangerous job.

@BESW oooh

yeah. If everybody's part of a team, have a team aspect. If the setting's got something like magic or a war that affects everyone, have everybody make an aspect about that.

Or I can imagine everyone in the matrix had a "why did you leave the matrix?"

@BESW furiously scribbles notes

Exactly.

I also really like how Atomic Robo does it: as part of the skill-ranking process you pick three "competency modes" for your character, the broad categories of "doing stuff" where your character shines. The defaults are Action, Banter, Intrigue, and Science, but you can also make your own for unusual characters.

And then those three competency modes are the labels for three of your aspects: Oh, you're good at Action? How does your character manifest that, what sets them apart from everybody else who's good at Action?

This is brilliant because by tying "what makes your character special" directly to your skill set, you're ensuring that any time you act in character you'll have at least one aspect to invoke for a roll.

@BESW I love it

> Action: Brutal brawler

is very different from

> Action: Honorable soldier

And even if the two characters have the exact same skill ranks, their action aspects make them play very differently.

Or like Intrigue: Master of disguise vs Intrigue: Cat burglar

I'm also a fan of linked aspects, like the "team" label above.

If everybody's part of a team, it can be really fun to dig into why, and what they think about it, and how they work together.

Team: Reluctant recruit vs Team: Den mother vs Team: Loyal fanatic

@BESW the group is much more rag-tag than a proper team, but I feel like we could make a group aspect maybe?

Aye, most games have some kind of justification for the PCs to hang around together.

@BESW I'd love to hear what Mith and bobble think their justification is for their characters

> Overlord: Master raised me from the dead vs Overlord: The pay is great and we get dental vs Overlord: He's my brother

Another fun category of aspect labels for a D&D-like game is equipment. Weapon: Steven, the Sword of Storms vs Weapon: Fists like hammers vs Weapon: I can kill you with my brain

I do think "I have to prove myself" works well for the character, but I dont know if that'd be better as a high concept than a trouble

@BESW that last one is appropriate!

Definitely not a high concept, it's not how you'd summarize the character.

Hmmm

If you had only six words to tell me about the character, those shouldn't be five of them.

Let's look at Fate Condensed, shall we?

Here's a couple of my favorite high concepts from my own characters:

> Ace pilot from another world

> Maladjusted black ops social worker

> Teen knight from South London

> Boastful Stormcat Prince

Hmmm, "Headstrong host to an eldritch entity"?

I don't feel like it fits the characters character though

Maladjusted is a good adjective btw

[grin] I mean, she's a sapient sled dog raised in an underground bunker by a mad Canadian biologist as part of an army of dogs he planned to lead in a takeover of the USA. Socialization is not her strong point.

And yet now she's a USA immigrant working in social services. This can only end well, yes.

@BESW absolutely

Fin was raised by her ex-adventurer mother, and got herself a Don Quixote type mindset from that, and on her misadventures got bonded to a book that's cursed her with (awesome) eldritch powers

Don Quixote mixed with Wanda Maximoff isn't a far cry from the character to be honest

Maybe not quite as delusional

I guess quixotic is an adjective

Something like "Quixotic scion..."

[Attitude] and quixotic misadventurer and leave the other bits for other aspects?

Attitude like "cheerful" or "cynical" or "excitable" or whatever

Oooh I like it

Trouble: Cursed with awesome powers beyond mortal ken

Or maybe that's not her trouble, maybe it's a different aspect, and her trouble is Craves validation or I can do better!

...heh. Magic: Amateur book-binder

@BESW she has bound actual books before

@BESW that's a cool thing to figure out with a group

@BESW I'm still puzzling over this

Impulsive?

Sheltered?

Impulsive would work, but so would excitable and she can be cheerful

Trying to get into the mind of what would each word signal to a group

Sheltered feels partly covered by quixotic

Eager?

@BESW yeah that could work

:waves at Mith:

@Glazius ooh, I like that one, "the adventuring life chose me" (similar to the Bilbo situation where he ended up in an adventure somewhat against his instincts).

@AncientSwordRage *waves back*

@Mithical how's things?

I've been looking into the fate RPG system, and toying with converting Fin into it to see how it works

@AncientSwordRage They're the only other people who seem to understand her newfound powers and have similar ones. Also, although she won't admit it, it's extremely gratifying to actually have people who might be considered friends, especially considering she's slightly floundering after just moving out there. But, of course, that justification has been slightly... strained very recently :)

@Mithical I forgot that Sherri only just moved out to Paolo Fresco

Fin still has a lot to process...

Everyone still has a lot to process, it's been... what, a day and a half? Two days?

@Yuuki Mm... side note, really not a fan of the term "Judeo-Christian" in pretty much any context. When it comes to the Bible, there are some pretty significant differences between the Jewish and Christian versions (no, the "Old Testament" and the Hebrew Bible are not the same thing), and the term also excludes Muslims and others who use the text. I generally prefer "Abrahamic" when referring to shared resources, although I don't know what others use.

@Mithical yeah, "Abrahamic" makes more sense indeed

I suspect the other term is used in a subtly...exclusionary way by some folks, even

Yeah. There are also other Abrahamic religions, such as the Baha'i or Druze, although people tend to not be aware of them very much.

@Shalvenay while on the topic I think it's also used to lend more weight to stuff, that like Mith said, isn't actually in common between the two

@Mithical yeah more or less

@AncientSwordRage yeah, that's part of the subtle exclusion-ness

@Shalvenay the subtle exclusion-ness is the "well 2/3rds of the abrahamic faiths agree, so that 1/3rd is excluded" keen though, it's not just three) but what I'm focusing in on is that they don't even agree on everything but just mentioning one faith has less weight

@AncientSwordRage yeah, it's a term that subordinates Judaism to Christianity, basically

Yup

@Mithical maybe I could play up the "I know what it's like to suddenly have magick powers" bit?

Ah... but have Fin's magic powers destroyed her home, gotten her practically kicked out of town, and strained a romantic relationship?

I think that's something that'll have to be worked out in RP.

@Mithical I did not know that... That's something else TBF

I'm looking forward to playing as Fin again so we can get to this stuff in game

@AncientSwordRage Teri's world, i.e the library, has been upended, and she's fallen back helping Fin as a part of her identity (helpfulness) that she still has

@bobble I wonder what she'd have done without that to focus on?