TRPG General Chat

Someone_Evil

00:01

That's delightful

And of course it's important to know the whole story:

The Whole Story: Spam [Aired May 2011]

►

nitsua60

00:39

@ThomasMarkov Aside from "ABC is definitely a 'top-5 get-going-in-the-morning-song,'" I don't know what to tell you to think.

Hmm... turns out it gets me going in the evening, too.

bobble

What kind of seat does a sheep use?

nitsua60

@bobble 19 now =)

NautArch

A baaaathroom seat?

nitsua60

@NautArch Watch out. Might have to break out my <dons shades> battering ram.

NautArch

@nitsua60 ewe wouldn't do that!

nitsua60

00:44

@Axoren A mod can pull that info very easily, and I can't imagine it'd violate your privacy to tell you, upon your request, whom you've voted for.

I take notes/make sketches during sessions, and keep those all in a folder with my charsheet. The right margin of those sheets is all my resources--HP, ammo, spell slots, whathaveyou--that change a lot during the game, tallied and crossed out and rewritten through the night. At the end of session, the charsheet gets updated if they've changed.
(Most times they haven't, because the session's not ending mid-action, so the resources are going to come back to "full" during town-time or the like.) Saves the eraser-hole problem.

@BESW Ohmigosh, yes!

BESW

@nitsua60 I'm partially inspired by games like Lovecraftesque where a player role can be just adding descriptive details and playing NPCs, like a kind of co-GM dedicated to bigging up the world.

But thinking about those "non-character-player" roles, I remember, for example, that in 4e we'd have someone who (in addition to running his own PC) manned the buffs-and-debuffs-durations whiteboard and tracked initiative, and someone else who (in addition to running his own PC) was the Player-Facing Rules Consultant.

And then I remember that I've had friends who liked to come to the games and just observe.

And like... why shouldn't we offer tangible support for those kinds of participation.

nitsua60

01:06

That's awesome. PC-wise, I'm definitely a munchkin. But as a player, I'm a bard: I'm happy to just be at the table, side-chatting with friends, prepping a snack, sketching the barrows the GM's describing....

BESW

Yeah!

So that's going to be a big part of Traveling Librarians, I think.

nitsua60

Making ephemera...

BESW

It's already structured so that each player gets a section of play where their PC is the only PC, and all the other participants are representing parts of the world (NPCs, natural features, etc), and there's also a section of play where all the PCs gather together.

It'd make a lot of sense to offer an option to simply... not have a PC at all.

nitsua60

Tales from the Loop has that as part of its gameplay, and I and my friends have really liked it. (TftL alternates between full-party scenes and one-PC slice-of-life scenes, and the second act as part of the resource-refresh mechanics for the featured PC.)

BESW

Does it give the other players something to do in single-PC scenes?

Axoren

01:19

@nitsua60 I probably wouldn't want myself to know that.

Can't really trust myself with myself.

Ben

01:31

Morning

bobble

What is the quality of this morning?

Ben

Well, still running on yesterday's events, which was a bit of a downer... always optimistic about the future (I enjoy the chaos of the unknown)... It's friday, so the weekend is on it's way... all in all I'd say that the quality is pretty good

You?

Hey @nitsua60 been a while, how's things?

bobble

I dumped a bunch of garlic powder into some corn, so it's going well

BESW

Having some very good conversations about the nature of the soul and the purpose of reality, so that's nice.

Ben

@bobble You have inspired me

@BESW Oh I always do enjoy those :D

BESW

01:42

Apr 24 '16 at 1:52, by BESW

My aunt says, "Provided it is fresh, one can never have too much garlic."

Ben

Words to live by <3

AncientSwordRage

02:00

@BESW I currently living in denial that garlic might be one of my IBS triggers 🙃

BESW

Oh no

Shalvenay

@AncientSwordRage :/

AncientSwordRage

Besides that I completely agree with your aunt

And I do say might, I'm not certain

I tend to use garlic powder

BESW

02:28

Then it might even be the preservatives.

Heh. I got +40 rep today because somebody posted an answer to a D&D 4e question while clearly demonstrating no understanding of 4e.

nitsua60

02:52

@Ben Things are going well, thanks. Slowly resuming some things... I even traveled out of state last week! You?

Ben

04:26

@nitsua60 oh exciting! I've been busy as heck, both with work and patenting, and had some wins in both :D

Bardic Wizard

05:14

Hello! I can’t sleep for some reason! It might be the sugar consumption! How’s everyone?

trogdor

uh not the best ever but I should get through it, also it probably is the sugar consumption :P

Bardic Wizard

@trogdor I’m sorry it wasn’t a good day

trogdor

it's nothing like ridiculous that anyone should be worried about but I'm stressed out about some personal stuff

so it's not a great day but nothing horrible has happened

BESW

06:15

trogdor

is extremely good picture

Adeptus

Dinotopia?

BESW

06:29

Yes!

kviiri

07:02

Hello

Hot RPG Questions

6

Q: Tracking Ammunition consistently in a Hell made of Bullets

Ranged weapons are a mainstay in many games. Most fantasy games come with arrows, bolts, and sling stones. Wild West comes with lead, powder, and percussion caps in the early times and metal cartridges in the later end of the timeframe. Modern games blow out ammunition in the dozens - even hundre...

MikeQ

General Kviiri. You are a bold one.

kviiri

AncientSwordRage

07:55

@BardicWizard good! Planning a dystopian novel so got blog was good reading. Also shared it on Sci-Fi chat

Ben

Evening

AncientSwordRage

@BESW prefer tends to be ok.

It's when I get products with fresh garlic

Ben

@kviiri [salute]

AncientSwordRage

Some preservatives do mess me up though

@ben ev'ning

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Trish GURPS VtM is one of those puzzling products. From my largely 4e-informed hindsight, it looks very disappointing. But I have repeatedly encountered people whose reaction to that is 'Well it may be imperfect, but it sure felt like a major upgrade compared to running it in Storyteller'.

Akixkisu

11:08

@Trish rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/185849/… sr5, you didn't specify edition, so a comment. Others who I know used it and are happy with what it does.

Trish

@Akixkisu Chummer started as SR4, and it needs a full windows machine - meaning you need laptops - which are not an option on a crowded table. It just doesn't run on tablets or phones.

Akixkisu

@Trish you should mention it in your q if space or electronic devices are an issue.

Trish

@Akixkisu laptops are a problem (can't see the stuff), tablets arent, chummer just doesn't run on tablets. The GM laptop is like the GM screen

Akixkisu

@Trish it runs on wine.

So it runs on tablets.

The git even has a use guide.

Trish

@Akixkisu that's new, SR4 chummer never managed that.

Akixkisu

11:16

github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a

See wiki for the use guide.

wine for android dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/android

Though you are out of luck for sr6 support.

But maybe the dev will change their mind.

The bowl method might sounds silly, but it works really well due to the abstraction of how many units a token represents.

Akixkisu

11:35

@Trish you speak German, right?

Akixkisu

12:07

@Akixkisu rpgframework.de/index.php/de/category/rollenspiele-de/… leaving this here, in case you do. it is better than chummer and runs more smoothly on non-windows systems.

NautArch

12:47

@Akixkisu How do the tokens work when enormous volumes of bullets are going, but individual bullets need to be tracked?

Hot RPG Questions

1

Q: Does the word Doff work with the Command spell? If so does it last the full duration?

The Command Spell says: You speak a one-word command to a creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or follow the command on its next turn. The definition of the word Doff in the players handbook is: This is the time it takes to take off the item. Can...

dnd-5e spells equipment

NautArch

13:02

@Trish did you take out the requirements for GM being able to view the values as well as players not being able to alter them incorrectly?

Thomas Markov

Dale's now deleted answer brings up a good point that maybe could be explained in the question: "Why is this different from tracking other numerical statistics?"

What is it about tracking ammunition that makes your methods of tracking hit points not work?

Akixkisu

@NautArch if you are alternating between simple and complex actions, then you have to use an additonal token colour.

The loop is the same.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW have you (or anyone you know) played these

@BESW I should get myself a hermit crab

Trish

13:17

@NautArch no, it's in there: "Easily to spot from a distance"

Medix2

I feel like table requirements should be made prominent in a bulleted list

As well as an explanation of why it can't be tracked the same way as every single other tracked resource

Oh, there actually is a big bold thing. Maybe just duplicate that at the top, idk, long questions are hard to write well

@Trish Is using dry erase an option?

Trish

@Medix2 non-destructive to the character sheet and spotable from a distance?

Medix2

Dry erase is, by definition, non destructive

And if the numbers are large enough, or on a board or screen, then they are visible to all

Thomas Markov

Hol up

Medix2

I am a bit confused why everybody needs to be able to spot the remaining ammo though. Preventing cheating?

Thomas Markov

13:27

So the problem with using the character sheet was that it was destructive, but other than that, did it work fine?

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 badum tsh

Medix2

I am confused why you were using your character sheet earlier if that doesn't actually work for your table since it isn't easily seen from a distance. Ah ah, reread yet again, I see now

Thomas Markov

Idea: Just play at a gun range so you can use real guns with capacities matching your character's firearm. If on your turn your fire 6 shots, fire 6 live rounds down range.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov but now you're larping

Thomas Markov

Nah, just using the gun to count.

Btw that would be really expensive right now./

Medix2

13:35

NERF

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 way cheaper

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 Herder?

Hot RPG Questions

4

Q: Is Lightning Lure like a tractor beam?

Lightning Lure says (among other things): The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pulled up to 10 feet in a straight line toward you... "In a straight line" here leads to an interesting question. If there's a hole in the floor between you and the pulled creature, will the crea...

dnd-5e cantrips forced-movement falling

AncientSwordRage

13:50

@HotRPGQuestions thats interesting

Trish

@AncientSwordRage Maids?

AncientSwordRage

@Trish how do we get from Nerf herder to maids?

Trish

@AncientSwordRage Herding Maids :P

AncientSwordRage

@Trish can't say I've tried

Trish

I did, should try again once the club opens again...

AncientSwordRage

14:03

@Trish did you look at that retail variant?

Trish

@AncientSwordRage the magic shop thingy? not yet

AncientSwordRage

it looked interesting, but my brain is still only semi-solid around large blocks of text

Trish

more worried about how a question with strict limits managed to drift off into idea generation... oh, and trying to make a saihai so I can be Daimyo in style :P

my Gunbai is mostly done too :3

AncientSwordRage

@Trish I'm a fan of those

@Trish don't let the tassels near a cat

Trish

@AncientSwordRage I think I have enough shaft left to make two different styles even...

AncientSwordRage

14:11

@Trish that is cool

Trish

@AncientSwordRage upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Saihai_1.JPG/… that style... and upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Saihai.JPG/… / upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Saihai_2.JPG/… are my main references for the two styles I go for...

AncientSwordRage

@Trish cool!

It's a wild DG!

\\oo/

bobble

would you be satisfied with a wild bobble?

AncientSwordRage

14:28

@bobble always satisfied with a wild friend

I'm currently contemplating if you can make a language without verbs

(I'm sure one exists)

bobble

AncientSwordRage

@bobble that's more like it

Kēlen

Kēlen (pronounced [ˈke:.len]) is a constructed language created by Sylvia Sotomayor. It is an attempt to create a truly alien language by violating a key linguistic universal—namely that all human languages have verbs. In Kēlen, relationships between the noun phrases making up the sentence are expressed by one of four relationals. According to Sotomayor, these relationals perform the functions of verbs but lack any of the semantic content. However, the semantic content found in common verbs, such as those that are semantic primes, can also be found in Kēlen's relationals, which calls in...

may be what I was thinking of

what state is bobble in currently?

bobble

couch

AncientSwordRage

@bobble couched*?

or you've grown cushions and wooden legs?

bobble

bobble is on a couch

Someone_Evil

14:40

And not in the republic of chairs then?

bobble

chairs don't have blankets

AncientSwordRage

these are all excellent points

Someone_Evil

Also, something something ottoman

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil empirically

RevanantBacon

@bobble Mine has a quilt.

It's like a blanket, but different

Trish

14:51

@AncientSwordRage imgur.com/a/z8berUU

@bobble Conlang, eh? Watch some Artifaxian!

AncientSwordRage

@Trish I can't imgur from work

Trish

AncientSwordRage

@Trish I only have a few of their videos left to watch, and then I'll be "Done!"

Trish

there!

AncientSwordRage

@Trish thanks!

Trish

14:54

@AncientSwordRage I am not good on the conlang side, but the worldbuilding stuff is great.

AncientSwordRage

Bib, Artifexian and jan Misali are sort of my conlanging trifecta of youtubers

Bobble got eaten by the couch

Trish

@AncientSwordRage printing those parts atm. 3D printers are great to make props for LARP, as long as those are not for combat.

Axoren

15:09

Oh wow, at this trend, I might get Great Answer badge on my most recent answer.

It seems like votes just keep trickling in.

First time breaching 80

Trish

@Axoren let me guess: a D&D5E question. Only those get that much traction these days.

the best one can achieve with other games is a 10 or, if you are lucky 25. But I got a famous in WoD... for a very controversial question

Axoren

@Trish a Vampire: The Masquerade GM had a problem-players question.

It's a fairly system agnostic question, though.

Trish

@Axoren the cheating friend? Oh, right. that got traction out of its league.

bobble

@AncientSwordRage I assure you, I am uneaten

3

Trish

odd thing people do only vote for the top there.

Axoren

15:13

It's honestly not that rare of a problem, which is why I think it resonated with a lot of people.

Trish

@bobble prove us you are not a Sorax!

bobble

@Trish Googles "Sorax"

Axoren

There's always going to be some bad actors finding their way into TTRPG groups. Finding your "tribe" is an iterative process and you are exposed to people who don't necessarily have your best interests in mind to start.

Like Sorak from Solasta?

The lizard people that can disguise as humans?

Trish

@bobble some kind of shapeshifting monster.

@Axoren yes!

Axoren

Recently started playing it. I like it, but I wish it was better.

The engine is LEAGUES better than Balder's Gate 3, with minor excusable hiccups.

Trish

15:16

@Axoren :58233805 true. VtM didn't give us much, however, the expectance in a Vampire game is much less you need to win but more tell a f*****g good story

Axoren

Careful of language. We have some younger users about.

Trish

@Axoren it is a, as far as it was told to me, a good port of the DND5E engine.

Axoren

Spiritual Weapon got BODIED, though

bobble

@Trish uh, how does one do that over text?

Axoren

Missing out on the first turn of damage makes it such a worse spell now.

Trish

15:17

@Axoren sorry, but in that case the word order is key.

@bobble supertext? not in chat.

in an answer? <sup></sup>

Axoren

I meant more the vocabulary. I've been told to keep it less vulgar in the chat before.

Probably the best part of it is that it handles RPG intra-city travel the best.

"You must gather your party before venturing forth." be damned. I can fast travel.

That was my biggest flaw with the Divinity Original Sin Engine: If there wasn't a teleporter near where you needed to go, you were sooooooo slow. Even after they added the grab-bag features that let you sprint while out of combat, it was abysmal.

Trish

and you get random encounters on the way... which basically is a license to farm XP if you seriously are underleveled somehow. Becasue those encounters seem generally level appropriate.

Oh, and of course Scavenger Guild!

Axoren

From a game design perspective, they made all the right changes to overcome the inherent weaknesses of the genre. The Scavenger Guild is indeed one of their crowning achievements!

No more futzing with encumbrance and making multiple trips. They recognized that the player has engaged with the most challenging part of loot acquisition, so they just created a system that let's you have your loot.

You can always pick it up to have it with you immediately for more valuable items, but otherwise, just wait a week and it'll be in your possession.

Trish

@Axoren they also have an option for the typical "I carry around 500 longswords because I killed their owners" hoarders... or have that as a mod, but... dang, it's what players would do at a table.

@Axoren or the cash you sell it for anyway

Axoren

In vanilla, you can decide to keep the items

Trish

15:24

True, but most players won't want another longsword and sell it instead.

if it was a Longsword+1 though.. entirely different story.

Axoren

Still don't have the hang of the crafting system, but I like that once you learn a place that has a material spawn, you can visit it at a later point to get more of it. Alternatively, you just find some while exploring/traveling

Trish

but then again, I deem a Longsword+1 something that should be rare and not found like candy...

Axoren

I like that I don't have to keep my eyes out for the errant flower in every map or the occasional ore vein.

My party just kind of finds Magnesium

It seems like Solasta is a very magic heavy setting.

So it kind of makes sense that basic magic gear is plentiful

Trish

@Axoren The only RPGs that I know with a good, functional crafting system are World of Darkness ("you can do it if you can convince your GM how hard/easy it is and how much time it takes") and Ars Magicka (crafting is way easier than magic... and at times a prerequisite to some magic)

@Axoren pure, elemental Magnesium?! Those lands should be on fire!

Axoren

@Trish Aren't a bunch of them on fire? I run into occasional mages casting Scorching Ray

Trish

15:30

@Axoren True, my expectation there is shaped by playing low magic The Dark Eye, where you can count the whole continent's Longsword+1 collection and not even get out of the three-digit numbers.

Axoren

I've played a crafter historically in my early days of Pathfinder and GURPS. My final say on it is that it's a very cheesy sort of progression.

AncientSwordRage

@Trish do you need me to use mod powers to grawlix your message

Axoren

If it's not accounted for in the system or setting, crafting is often just strictly META

NautArch

@AncientSwordRage can you clean up the language, or should i move to trash?

Trish

heh, if you want cheesy: Twilight Exalted Crafter with a dozen crafts and half the craft-charm-treee. "I want a palace there..." 2 hours later "Now, where do I put my annex..."

@AncientSwordRage F***?

Axoren

15:33

As I suspected.

AncientSwordRage

@Trish something like that

@NautArch I can clean it up

NautArch

@AncientSwordRage fancy mod powers!

Trish

@AncientSwordRage sure

AncientSwordRage

that suit you both @Trish @NautArch ?

Medix2

I love when there's a starred message on the side and it is just that much better not knowing the context

Trish

15:34

@AncientSwordRage aye

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 it's half the reason I star mesages

Axoren

I've been working on a system with rigid downtime action rules that make crafting a definite trade-off because you're giving up other non-crafting options to make an item. This is on a different order and scale than 5e's decision to let you spend a week either making a magic item with materials you found while adventuring or make friends with a commoner at the bar.

Snakehelm

@NautArch Ok so, i'm here now. Do you think this will help me find an answer without going crazy?

AncientSwordRage

@Axoren which engine? I have an interest in BGIII for the mythical time that I build a new PC

Axoren

@AncientSwordRage Solasta.

Story is milk toast.

Watered-down milk toast.

RevanantBacon

15:36

@AncientSwordRage Grawlix? Is that some British slang that I don't get, or did you just type a random string of letters?

Axoren

But the engine and execution is insane.

Trish

@AncientSwordRage Solasta dished out mad money to be wholly D&D5E licensed. And ported the stuff apparently so well, that people comment how well it portrays the rolls and keep it user friendly.

Axoren

@RevanantBacon %@$&*!

^Grawlix.

AncientSwordRage

132

A: What the #$@&%*! is that called?

I found the term "grawlixes" here: The Lexicon of Comicana. Grawlixes Typographical symbols standing for profanities, appearing in dialogue balloons in place of actual dialogue. I also came across the terms "profanitype" and "symbol swearing." I think I like "grawlixes" best.

Trish

Not sure how much the Solasta-engine cheats on behalf of the player though.

AncientSwordRage

15:38

@Axoren details?

RevanantBacon

@AncientSwordRage Also, speaking of new PC's, I really really need to upgrade mine, it's like 8 years old

@AncientSwordRage Oohhhh, neat

Axoren

@AncientSwordRage Solid game-feel, clean UI, and words.

I'm a bit hungry and I'm lacking the vocab for my last point.

AncientSwordRage

@RevanantBacon my last one was 8 when it died

RevanantBacon

@AncientSwordRage Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of lol

AncientSwordRage

@Axoren cool, I may investigate later

Axoren

15:40

How the characters on screen and the battle zones clearly represent what they're for.

AncientSwordRage

@RevanantBacon it went bang

Axoren

Like, you can easily interpret battle info at a glance without having to hover debuffs, like in BG3

And I'm still of the opinion that BG3 will not improve in any of the strengths I've attributed to Solasta until BG3:Enhanced Edition.

Larian has a pattern and it's trashy.

Trish

The last 3 days made me think D&D 5 is lacking essential skills. Intelligence (Door Operation) and Charisma (James Bonding) are two of them. The latter is however maaaaybe a little broad, encompassing stuff like looking good in a kilt, seducing people and always at the right time at the right place as well as escaping inescapeable death traps. Only inescapeable ones though. Escapeable ones require different skills.

AncientSwordRage

@Axoren ooof

Axoren

I think the one thing BG3 might have over Solasta is the story, but I dropped BG3 because of the disappointing experience I had with the game and the realization that even though it was Early Access, my problems with it wouldn't get fixed.

AncientSwordRage

15:43

@Trish "Door Operation"?

RevanantBacon

@Axoren I like their Divinity Original Sin games

Axoren

So I only saw a fraction of the story

AncientSwordRage

Is that like the Exalted charm for Door Evasion?

Trish

@AncientSwordRage it handles opening and closing doors! like Pull and Push! And unlocking them with the key!

AncientSwordRage

@Trish that shouldn't need a skill....?

Is this the arcane lock queston?

Axoren

15:44

D:OS 1 was a perfect flash in the pan for them. D:OS 2 was a disappointment for me because it seemed like a regression. They unlearned things they used to do well in 1.

Trish

@AncientSwordRage it's a trope. :P

Axoren

And the story was missable in 2. I think the only thing that got me through the first couple of acts was that I was playing with friends and I could throw barrels again.

D:OS 2 solo was like pulling teeth.

Trish

Axoren

Also, the completely irrelevant Tutorial Island that took 30 minutes of my time when I already knew how to play D:OS was insulting. You shouldn't have to put up with DeviantArt comments-tier dialog for 30 minutes before they let you even look at the real main quest.

AncientSwordRage

@Trish in at least one edition of exalted you can get a power that lets you ignore doors

it just removes the need to describe opening them

non-exalted still need to open them though

RevanantBacon

15:51

@AncientSwordRage A high enough Strength rating will let you ignore doors in any edition

:p

AncientSwordRage

@RevanantBacon heh

Axoren

My most recent Rogue was better at Break DCs than Lockpicking DCs and my party still doesn't know how to deal with it.

Crowbar is the best.

I also had a Sledgehammer and Pickaxe for breaking through thin walls. If we couldn't breach the door, we could breach the wall.

AncientSwordRage

@Axoren now that's prepared

Trish

@RevanantBacon like the Trolling I once played. he went straight through the door. Ok, a 10-year-old was as smart as him. :P

Thomas Markov

Question: Is this a dupe of this?

Trish

16:04

@Axoren Typical shadowrunner. "The door is made from steel and the lock mechanical? What's the wall made from?

@ThomasMarkov looks like it

Thomas Markov

I think so too

but I wanted to get some affirmation before hammering it

NautArch

@Trish I wholeheartedly disagree. 5e gives a lot of freedom into figuring out skills that are appropriate.

You can mix and match any ability score with any skills or just do a straight check with the ability score.

Axoren

I have yet to play in a Shadowrun Game. I prepped a rigger that owned a helicopter for landing on rooves of skyscrapers and hasty escapes. That game ended up not happening.

Trish

@NautArch The two were meant as deliberate jokes: either much too narrow or much too broad.

Thomas Markov

@Trish What skill activities do you think 5e cannot cover?

Axoren

16:06

Although I feel like whatever campaign was prepared was not prepared for airdrops and machine gun airsupport

Trish

@Axoren too noisy.

Axoren

@Trish Never said I was stealthy. >:)

Trish

@ThomasMarkov Designing Firearms, operating milling machines and nuclear physics :P

Thomas Markov

@Trish Those first two would be covered by a tool proficiency, not a skill.

The last one is just plane out of scope, so it doesnt really count.

Axoren

Character's playlist included youtube.com/watch?v=iSpQKRCndXQ

During character creation, our groups like to make character playlists full of songs that mesh with the character concept.

Thomas Markov

16:10

@NautArch what do you think about the dupe question i posted above

NautArch

@Trish Pretty sure this is just being silly, but the point is that 5e does have a wide ability to create skill checks for nearly everything. Your assessment and misgivings are not correct.

@ThomasMarkov It's super close, but given that this has a specific mechanic (falling into a hole), I think we should keep it open.

Trish

@ThomasMarkov Firearms design has nothing to do with operating a tool. it is a random mix of engineering, machining, mechanics and using fireams. those three are all so far out of scope for D&D that nobody will have thought to include any stuff that matches to them.

Thomas Markov

Tinker's Tools.

NautArch

^

@Trish Trish, I get you don't like D&D/5e and think that it has major shortcomings. Bringing up what you think are shortcomings aren't really helpful, unless you are actively trying to understand the game. If you're just picking nits, you gotta stop that here.

Trish

@NautArch indeed, the three were deliberate. But firearms design is way more than just tinkers tool. it is the compound of familiarity with machine tools, firearms, knowledge aboug engineering and much more. It's something no game is designed to handle.

@NautArch it's not a shortcoming when literally no game actually can do it properly.

NautArch

16:14

@Trish That is your opinion of how the games could work, but it doesn't mean everyone shares that belief - and my hunch is many of us think that it can be done. Properly for you and properly for others can be two different things.

Thomas Markov

Right, the tools in D&D are not really the sort of tools required to machine a Glock 19. But a flintlock pistol? Even an old fashioned Colt Revolver? Sure.

MikeQ

I imagine that game designers might want to simplify the mechanics when designing a combat-focused game, rather than simulate all the intricate details of how the weapons work

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Heck, we've got questions here about making very complicated technological devices in 5e.

Thomas Markov

@Trish To be fair, you can think all you want that D&D 5e is just not equipped to handle firearms and it won't make my experience playing a Gunslinger that designs his own weapons any less fun.

MikeQ

Yup, usually the simplest approach is to use the existing mechanics in the system. D&D has weapons, attack rolls, and damage rolls, so that's how it would define a firearm within the system.

NautArch

16:18

@ThomasMarkov <insert letterkenny video on To Be Fair>

MikeQ

Similar arguments could be made about the crossbow. The game designers don't ask to simulate the strength required to draw the bow, or physics simulations of tension and potential energy, or accounting for air resistance. They just treat it as a weapon, much like other weapons.

Medix2

@NautArch Agreed. Especially given that the answers to the target don't mention gravity at all

Thomas Markov

@NautArch Okay, if you kill bernie, Im making a Human Path of the Berserker Barbarian with the Tavern Brawler feat named Wayne.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov hahahahaha

MikeQ

Path of the Totem Warrior: Goose totem

NautArch

16:20

Chairman could get a surprise when firing his hand crossbow. I may use that recharge :P

but seriously, i'll talk to him about it first - but I kind of like the idea.

And it's a nice balance against his taking the optional rogue ability without talking to me first :P

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch @ThomasMarkov I thought that Trish was joking about the door skills and the james bonding...?

Trish

@ThomasMarkov no, just firearms design. It's something even firearms designers even manage to understand why A works better than B. Or why scaling a gun to a different caliber results in the whole gun no longer working. It's something that no gamereally is handling properly because that particular part of engineering is that odd hodgepodge of applied science, theoretical science, traditional craft and machining. Not even Shadowrun, a game that is about 50% firearms can't handle designing them

Thomas Markov

Fine, I'll admit it. You don't learn anything about real gun smithing by reading table top RPG game materials.

AncientSwordRage

there was a system I saw once that tried to do gunsmithing/designing

can't think of it now

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Why do i hear pink in the background?

Medix2

16:26

I'm not sure what your point is? No game models gunsmithing, and...?

Thomas Markov

@Trish na na na na na na na The same could be said about swords. Most RPGs are not "Tradesman Simulator Hour".

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Blacksmith Simulator is one of my favorite games!

Trish

@ThomasMarkov aye. Which was the reason I picked those 3 examples. The oddball nobody understands what it actually is, the one thing that doesn't exist yet and the one thing that not even those that do it uknow if they do it right in some fringe cases.

@NautArch I prefer Powerwash Simulator!

NautArch

@Trish oooooh. Always feels so good after you finish a session,

Thomas Markov

Isn't "5e lacks granularity for crafting stuff" like one of the earliest criticisms of the system?

Oh hey, anniversary of my first answer.

And here's a story about Medix2 engaging with me on my first answer.

Medix2

16:31

Granularity is a subjective scale... some people want it, others don't, games cannot win outside of posting thousands upon thousands of optional rules that other systems just do better

Thomas Markov

I cant believe its been a year with you wonderful people

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov feels like you've been here much longer

NautArch

16:47

@Snakehelm So, this clearly is a pretty tricky situation, but it seems like you and your players may have different expectations for the game.

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage 2020 probably felt much longer than usual for most people.

Axoren

@ThomasMarkov Oof, yeah it did

I'm still writing 2019 on my checks.

It's both gone by so fast and not fast enough.

Medix2

@Axoren This reminded me that eventually I probably need to call the IRS about my stimulus checks

Axoren

Good luck. I feel like the IRS laid everyone off because it's impossible to reach them by phone.

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 This reminds me of the time my DM forgot to tell us we leveled up twice, and we started to struggle with the prewritten encounters. Finally I was like "this is pretty hard for level 6", and he was like "6? Yall should be level 8."

NautArch

16:55

@ThomasMarkov I definitely missed on level up with y'all.

once.

Axoren

"When are we gonna level up to 7?"
"You're level 6? I'm only level 5!"
"You've been getting levels?"

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov HAH!

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Speaking of, may be time to switch up your race again :D

Axoren

Math.

Transcript for