TRPG General Chat

1:10 AM

5

Q: What happens if Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum gets cast inside a Genie Warlock's vessel?

Specifically the part of Private Sanctum that reads Nothing can teleport into or out of the warded area. Planar travel is blocked within the warded area. Would this affect the ability to enter or leave the Genie's Vessel? Would it affect the auto eject time limit of the vessel? What happens ...

Bardic Wizard

4:43 AM

I have a wierd scenario and I need game design advice about what I should do about it. Does anyone have a second to weigh in on something?

MikeQ

I have at least 3 seconds

trogdor

uh sure

not 100% sure I can help with it because I don't know what it is yet but I can at least listen and evaluate that part XD

Bardic Wizard

So forever ago (last June) I wrote this thing, a role playing game called ensign of the week that’s basically a sci-fi thing but with magic. Now I’m rewriting it, and I think I need to change the magic system, but I’m not sure to what extent.

The pros I see of this: it focuses the game more on the sci-fi themes I want, it’s an overly complex system that makes playing harder, and nobody used it when I play tested the game.

The cons: it makes it less “sci-fi with secret magic” no matter what I choose and more “sci-fi”, it changes the premise of the game, and I personally really liked the magic system when I wrote it

trogdor

hmm

Bardic Wizard

My original idea was “cut it entirely”, but “simplify it” or “make it optional came up as other ideas.

Does anyone have opinions or advice?

trogdor

4:47 AM

well

it seems to me like you have two ideas you like but that they clash with each other

every time I have personally tried to do something like that it turned out it would have been a better idea to do the things seperately

maybe this is more a Sci Fi thing and you should do the magic thing as it's own thing?

Bardic Wizard

@trogdor that’s my thought as well, kinda

trogdor

or you know vise versa I don't care if you call your magic thing ensign of the week XD

MikeQ

What sort of scenarios and challenges were in the playtest? You mention nobody used the magic system - were there opportunities when it made sense to do so?

trogdor

but on that note, maybe the people who you playtested it with didn't expect the magic stuff in a game with a more sci fi leaning name?

Bardic Wizard

@MikeQ there were a few, but the solutions could also be nonmagical and they chose non magic solutions

BESW

4:52 AM

> What is my game about?
How does my game do this?
How does my game encourage / reward this?
How do I make this fun?

4

Bardic Wizard

@trogdor point.

@MikeQ also my best friend said “ya know, if you cut the other systems people would use this more cause it’d be the least complicated option...”

MikeQ

Design often involves going through multiple iterations, keeping track of the changes and testing each new version. So maybe do that. Save a copy of what you have now, then make edits, and playtest the new version, and compare the results. You'll likely go through a few rounds of this before reaching a version that achieves your goal.

BESW

Your magic system looks like it's derived strongly from D&D. Is that intentional?

Bardic Wizard

@MikeQ I’m working on doing that now, yeah. I don’t have steady playtesters though so it’s a lot of trying to take any chance I get, and sometimes that’s three days in one week and sometimes it’s once in a whole month.

@BESW it wasn’t meant to be

It was meant to match that of a completely different story/setting/world I’ve been using for years, but I can see the similarities now that I think of it.

BESW

I'd be inclined to have magic in that setting do anything that technology can do, but choose one: without the tools or machines others would need; better (faster, more, further); or with the ability to re-roll your lowest d6.

Levitate, then, is "fly without jetpack."

Creating objects is "manifest without replicator."

Bardic Wizard

5:01 AM

@BESW that’s an interesting idea! I will add it to the list of options to consider.

BESW

Level up in a particular kind of magic, and you can choose two.

The alternative I'd consider is to go hard the other way and distinguish magic by making things that technology can never do, but magic can; and the two don't overlap.

Axoren

Polymorph: Pickle is "The funniest thing I've ever seen."

BESW

Otherwise there's not really a reason to have a separate mechanical system, is there, if magic is just achieving technological effects without the technology.

A. B.

5:15 AM

Would be difficult to think of many things that couldn't be done by technology, if we're allowing jetpacks and replicators. Or do you mean not allow jetpacks and replicators and leave that to magic?

Bardic Wizard

@BESW ok, that’s probably a good point

BESW

A lot of skill-based systems make magic one or two skills which can replace specializing in other skills (like using a location spell instead of the Perception skill), but at the cost of time/energy/attention.

you've already got the "calls attention to yourself" as a strong limiter on magic in your setting.

Which probably means you don't need to gate it much more than that, and instead make it as easy and tempting to use as possible in order to lure players into making the risky choices that are the reason you've put magic into the game.

MikeQ

Maybe the attitudes toward magic are a little incongruous with the setting, though. Isn't this supposed to be a scifi setting where the major factions are tolerant and curious? Why does nobody know magic exists? Why would they try to hurt magic users?

BESW

5:31 AM

@MikeQ Now I'm imagining that it's set in the future of Time Shall Not Mend.

(A crossover fanfic by AJ Hall in which magic-users hide in the shadows of Bujold's Vorkosigan novels.)

MikeQ

@BardicWizard More specifically, if nobody knows magic exists, then why is it assumed that a magic user would be hurt for having magic powers? Couldn't it just be rationalized as another sci-fi anomaly?

BESW

Isn't it probably the same "they'll dissect me for science" justification we get in almost any "I have powers nobody knows about and must keep it a secret" story?

MikeQ

Maybe that's the idea behind it. But if this mechanic tied to a big taboo with dire consequences, then that might be working against their design goals, if they want to encourage players to use it more.

BESW

Aye, that's a big stumbling block in a lot of TRPGs.

It's one reason I'd be inclined to make magic spoof existing abilities; easier to talk your way out of if somebody notices the effects.

V2Blast

7:01 AM

@Akixkisu I think a welcome message - even a "form message", as long as it's appropriately written - is a good way to start that interaction, at least :)

kviiri

7:58 AM

@BESW For some reason I've always found the plot backdrop of being threatened by exactly this, or loss of freedom, or similar rather compelling

Must be my childhood when there were thirteen mutant hero teams in a dozen.

BESW

See also: Fifth Season.

kviiri

It's a plot structure that works. "Protagonist must avoid [captors] while pursuing [objective]". Like The Fugitive.

@BESW The novel? I've heard of it but haven't gotten around to reading it yet

I'm not very... up to speed in my reading game.

BESW

Yeah, a major theme in that series is exploring the mechanisms of systematic exploitation: that the powers in the world use demonization to control the class of people they rely on most heavily to maintain their power.

That is, while the main characters have the power to flee the physical constraints and pursuits of their oppressors, the social prejudice and internalized self-loathing are much harder to escape.

kviiri

8:15 AM

@BESW This is a very interesting angle. Quite often, in those "hiding powered individual" type of stories the demonization is taken pretty much for granted.

I think X-men is a notable exception? I've never read the comics.

BESW

X-Men depends on the era and author for pretty much all of its treatments.

kviiri

Ah yeah. That's the usual comic book disclaimer I suppose :)

BESW

But I've never seen it really dig into the entrenched systemic elements that its real-life counterparts experience.

kviiri

Yes, it's a whole new layer if you add the "who benefits from the demonization" angle

BESW

Like, it began as an allegory for racial oppression, and specifically Civil Rights issues with Black Americans, but because mutants are new to society, it could never address the underlying Civil Rights realities like how demonization of Black people was (is) used specifically to treat them as an exploitable and disposable workforce.

And my typing is especially bad tonight.

Akixkisu

8:21 AM

@V2Blast Even when I leave personalised welcome-formula-style comments that are also issue related, I get no to very little engagement. When I ask direct-issue-related questions, I get a decent amount of engagement - what is your experience?

BESW

Jemisin gets annoyed when people ask her why the powered characters in Broken Earth don't just overthrow their oppressors, since they have so much more physical might. Because her book is about exactly that, how a system of oppression is designed to be self-continuing and recruit even the oppressed into perpetuating their own oppression. (And about how it's possible to break free--but with great effort and great cost.)

The books explore several different people finding the limits (or lack of limits) on what they're willing to do to change the world, and what they think needs to be changed.

Hot RPG Questions

2

Q: Do a Witchguard Ranger's patron spells count as divine or arcane?

From Witchguard: Patron (Su) A witchguard learns something of arcane magic from the witches he defends. At 4th level, when a witchguard gains the ability to cast spells, he must also select a patron, as the witch class feature. This patron is usually the same as the patron of the witch he is swo...

pathfinder-1e magic archetype

Hot RPG Questions

10:48 AM

4

Q: What are the balance implications of letting a wizard subclass have more prepared spells?

I'm working with a player who has a homebrew wizard subclass and we were discussing the possibility of giving it a list of spells that was automatically learned and prepared for this class. We realized that this would be a lot like the domain spells from cleric subclasses. So, what would be the b...

dnd-5e balance spellcasting

The Oracle

0

Q: What should comments be used for?

I was in the process of drafting a minor frame challenge in a comment, and found myself thinking 'is this an appropriate use of comments?' I hit up the meta hoping to find some general guidance on how comments should be used, but I haven't been able to find anything. All the guidance around comme...

Daily Discussion

Daily Discussion

Transcript for