TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

1:06 AM

@BardicWizard I played a game with Shal in that room a few years ago. There's a lot of different stuff in that room.

nitsua60

1:35 AM

d10

Dice Service

2

nitsua60

@BardicWizard protip: if you link to the rooms transcript (chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/115695/2020/10/30) rather than its living page, people can take a look without formally entering the room, which might reduce phantom drop-ins.

(And any mod, rpg or otherwise, could go back to edit your message to change the link, if you wanted.)

RevenantBacon

2:26 AM

Found one of my new favorite critters. It's called the Drainberry Bush from PF-2e

It's an intelligent plant that kinda just roams around selling what amounts to health potions at market standard prices

GcL

2:45 AM

@RevenantBacon What's that 2nd edition plant that looks like a stump with a bunny.

We were just talking about that a year ago or so

"Wolf with sheeps clothing" I think.

RevenantBacon

3:13 AM

@GcL No idea. I don't have the 2e bestiary, my brother just mentioned that critter to me, and I thought it was pretty cool

Hot RPG Questions

5:03 AM

2

Q: Improvised weapons and proficiency

I would like to know if I utilize “use an object” on an acid vial or alchemist’s fire and they are treated as improvised weapons with the respective range attack up to 20 feet, can I add my proficiency bonus to my attack rolls with those items? Evidently, tavern brawler feat allows the character...

Hot RPG Questions

9:03 AM

7

Q: Gust of Wind vs Green Dragon Breath

I think this is similar to Can Warding Wind block the effect of a Green Dragon's Poison Breath? but the wording of Warding Wind seems more conservative than Gust of Wind. I just ran a combat where a druid used Gust of Wind against a green dragon. I had the dragon retaliate by flying (slowly) towa...

dnd-5e spells breath-weapon

AncientSwordRage

12:34 PM

@RevenantBacon it's neat

A spider, previously thought extinct has been found in Britain

The article described it as huge, but it's only 2 inches/ 5cm... Which is technically tiny

AncientSwordRage

1:10 PM

in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, 10 hours ago, by xkcd

Alternatives to dice rolling

doppelgreener

1:34 PM

o/

@AncientSwordRage i was going to ask "are you proposing we wait until Christmas to see if my approximately 50% dice roll succeeds" but then I started taking a look at all the other methods and actually drawing Scrabble tiles and flipping M&Ms probably has a place in a game somewhere

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener I hope no game actually relies on earthquakes though

\oo//

Hot RPG Questions

1:53 PM

1

Q: Where is Gralhund Villa located within Waterdeep?

In Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, a significant portion of one of the chapters takes place in "Gralhund Villa". There are locations given for several of the noble Houses in the first chapter, but I can't find anything giving even an approximate location for Gralhund Villa. I've marked this question as ...

dnd-5e lore forgotten-realms waterdeep-dragon-heist

nitsua60

2:30 PM

@AncientSwordRage I'm hosting a game of Dread for my son and his friends tonight (in lieu of trad-trick-or-treating) and I'm thinking of augmenting the core mechanic with a dartboard =)

AncientSwordRage

@nitsua60 oh wow, nice

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

2:44 PM

@KorvinStarmast Did I understand your disbelief correctly? (This seems more fit for chat than the thread's comments.)

doppelgreener

2:57 PM

@AncientSwordRage or dialing barack obama

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener yeah that one's tricky

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yes, given your expressed negativity as regards that system, I was pleasantly surprised to see you pitch in (and I agreed with your take as well) tips cap

@GcL yep

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast I do prefer other systems, and was always (vocally) disappointed about them having a hard time on the site. But I should point out that I am also against BadWrongFungism, i.e. just because I prefer other systems (my favourites are GURPS and the FATE family of systems) doesn't mean other people should stop playing the ones they enjoy.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast That's a really sweet tradition! I hope you're able to work something out this year too...

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica we are in violent agreement 😆

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

3:07 PM

My negativity is more about certain 'default assumptions' like that 5e has a certain narrow meaning.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose We appear to be driving to the coast to take a walk on the beach at sunset. That's the plan as of this morning. The weather supports this.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast That sounds amazing!

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica aye

@Rubiksmoose The moon was full last night, so we are hoping for a clear sky/full moon walk on the beach. Here's hoping. One of the nice things about the kids being grown up is we can do spontaneous stuff like that.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast That being said, I have contemplated your earlier comments about the AD&D family of systems enjoying something of a . . . well, strong opposition? trend for badmouthing? not sure how to concisely convey the attitude. And by now I think you do have a point.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica yeah, but if I may comment on your terminolgy. "AD&D" really isn't what it is since WoTC took over, but I guess your label is based on "the complicated version of the game or maybe "any D&D that grew from AD&D/ and is more complicated that BECMI?" I am groping here.

AncientSwordRage

3:12 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica There's weight to the counter-culture that opposes D&D as the default RP system

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I've been with D&D since 1975, so to me "AD&D" has a particular meaning.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast Certainly the current edition doesn't feel basic to me despite all the supposed streamlining compared to the past. ^_^

As for whether I'm enjoying it (your other comment question), it's a mixed bag.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica yeah. It was only "streamlined" if all you have is the Basic Rules and play from that.

It is not rules light, and as with each other edition, over time it gets afflicted by bloat. I think that's 'the nature of the beast' or something like that.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica It took me a while to realize that there's a difficulty rating for each class, in terms of 'if you are new to the game' difficulty and 'if you are new to this edition' difficulty. They don't match but they are close to each other.

Difficulty based on complexity, more or less.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

1. The character optimisation minigame has its merits in terms of fun-of-the-process (achieving unexpected, interesting effects by finding peculiar combinations), though I am yet unsure how bad or good the balance situation is between various classes and build directions.

2. I don't exactly like the heavy splat-based pigeonholing (in this case the primary splat being the class, of course), but I understand that without it, there would be less space for restrictions on an otherwise grab-bag approach to combining goodies.

KorvinStarmast

There are very few traps, and the delta between best and worse is a smaller range.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yes, and that's where Multi Classing can offer some relief ...

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

3:18 PM

3. This seems to be more of a case in 5e then in the Advanced 2e, but I'm not quite thrilled by the swinginess of the die significantly exceeding the range of competences for a typical character progression in a plausible level range from untrained to veteran. (Will elaborate once I catch up.)

KorvinStarmast

Interestingly there seems to be a consensus that most play happens at levels 12 and below. (Which interestingly to me means that level 6 is as high as spells go, absent scrolls and such, which is as far as spells went in the Original game in 1974).

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast More magic = more difficulty, on average, it seems.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica The d20 system is inherently swingy; WoTC threw all of their chips on that number when they released 3.0 e and have never looked back. The trick in this edition is to find how to either get advantage or boosts like Bardic Inspiration or Guidance, etc,

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yes! That's my take as well.

I miss the old charisma checks based on a 2d6 (original game) ... so I still use them as DM when I am unsure where to go with an encounter between NPCs and PCs.

I let that result guide me as a next step forward sometimes.

I also think that the spell list needs about a 10% liposuction.

The other problem I see is that a lot of players ignore the Help action, particularly with ability checks. It's a way to use teamwork to address that competency thing that has a lot of folks all up in arms over the skill check method.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

On difficulty and chargen:
I started out with a mercenary birdman fighter archer 1 + rogue scout 5 for the mini-campaign. Bland personality, but a scouty mercenary with a ranged weapon seems to just be the type I gravitate towards when I need to offer something on a short notice and be ready to play. Also easy to build in this case. Though I picked rolled stats for the authentic D&D feel, and the results came up a bit underwhelming (one 16 and one 12 after racial modifiers).
When the GM stated intent to switch to a full campaign (with the option to create new PCs), I went for a GOO tomelock…

KorvinStarmast

GOO Tome lock is a nice choice, however, one of the things you have to be proactive about is getting / finding rituals to put into that book. That's very much a 'work with the other players/work with the DM thing' I found.

There's not an easy button for that.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

3:27 PM

@KorvinStarmast The flat curve of the d20 is one thing, but my disappointment was more that the total competence bonus seems to differ very little between completely untrained adventurers and someone who is a specialist in a given field. I picked a rogue with the idea that it's a bad idea to go into a dungeon (mini-campaign adventure was a dungeon) without one. But apparently even with expertise, the difference between someone with no Dex bonus and no proficiency (+0) and an expert rogue 6 is 9 or so.

KorvinStarmast

Sorcerer is another class where each spell choice has a real opportunity cost of a spell not chosen.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yes; that's due to the conceptual base line of "anyone can try anything and have a chance since they are adventurers" rather than You Have To Specialize. That's a change from some previous editions, and not everyone likes it.

Wherever possible, though, get the team mates to Help and all of a sudden you have advantage, with is a +3 to +5 bonus (though lock picking is an outlier there)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast Admittedly, this is something that also happens with recurring frequency in the FATE family of games (4dF is nominally a -4 to +4 range, but in practice an overwhelming majority of dice outcomes fall from -2 to +2, which is about as big as the typical skill range).

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yes indeed, whereas the range for DC is 5-20, with some going well above that though in theory most would not/should not.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I tend to follow the principle that there tasks which are insurmountable for the untrained, but routine for the trained, and ideally a game system should reflect that / provide support for declaring such tasks and receiving appropriate probability distributions on the rolls.

@KorvinStarmast Now, combat-wise, I did read on the Bounded Accuracy principle and do see the merit in having that, what with the ability to recycle low-level enemy types without the need to shake up the stats, merely by increasing numbers.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica "Trained" isn't where this edition is coming from on that. I find it refreshing since, as I say, anyone can try anything. That gives more people at the table a shot at succeeding on a given task.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

3:34 PM

@KorvinStarmast It seems to encourage throwing more people at a lock instead of having one trained lockpicker. ^_^

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yeah, it works out pretty well in the first two tiers, though in Tier 3 we noticed that Armor class slowly but surely becomes moot versus monsters who fit into that tier.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Not as such: you still need thieves tools proficiency for that one (as I said, lock picking/thieves tools is a bit of an outlier on the whole concept). But my ranger with thieves tools proficiency frrom Background can pick locks, or help the rogue or bard to it. 😉

And that's a place where I found backgrounds in this edition to be a very nice feature.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast Wait, lack of tools proficiency disqualifies from even trying the roll? I don't remember that. If so, that does make rogues more worthwhile from a utility PoV.

KorvinStarmast

I like how they did it. Modest mechanical boosts and some RP hooks.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica As far as I can tell, yes, but it is somewhat unclear and we actually have a Q&A on that from the early days of 5e right here. It's worth a read. But I repeat, you don't have to have a rogue to have thieve's tools proficiency. Criminal and IIRC urchin background offer it, and, any custom background (see PHB p 125) can include that tool proficiency).

My monks and my rangers often have the Criminal background, though ranger is usually the Spy variant based on my personal preferences.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast Oh, yeah, my second PC is of a custom urchin-cultist-esque background with lockpick proficiency for this very reason. Still fitting the roguish niche nominally.

KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Here is the Q&A that does a great job of exploring that whole thieves tools thing

Which leaves us with "was this confusing due to the rules not being clear, or, were people bringing old edition assumptions with them?"

Urchin fits the rogue niche nicely, yes.

The general intent was that proficiency is not required to use a tool

In re your point on 'competence' If you max your ability score to 20, and have expertise, at level 17 - 20 you are +17 on the check.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

3:44 PM

> Some locks require you to have proficiency with thieves’ tools to unlock them. That is a property of those locks, not of locks or tools in general.

Counterintuitive, but . . . OK.

KorvinStarmast

Yeah.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica An example on expertise in action from a recent game. Our barbarian (I am DM) had the Prodigy feat (xanathar's) at level 1. His choice was Athletics. With a strength of 16 he has +7 to his push and shove. He and the dwarf fighter decided to shove an ogre off the side of the road (more or less, off of a small cliff, but not enough falling damage to kill it). That was a +7 roll with advantage. They succeeded.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Xanathar's Tool Proficiency + Skill Proficiency = Advantage on the roll is an interesting rule that seems to make more of a difference between a specialist and an untrained user.

KorvinStarmast

If they had each tried separately they might have pulled it off, but it was a better choice to use "Help" in that case.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yep, I think that's an optional rule but a lot of people I talk to a GiTP really like it.

Ah, dogs need me, cheers. Later.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast Oh, Strength/Athletics are the other field where I find the swinginess excessive. Stuff like lifting gates and bending bars is something where I think (e.g.) a giant and a hobbit are likely to run into a situation where one can't fail and the other can't succeed. Also, later then.

nitsua60

4:15 PM

@KorvinStarmast Even lockpicking, though... "hold this lantern- no, a little to the left" I've always though could be perfectly useful Help.

Hot RPG Questions

4:44 PM

2

Q: Do Hunter's Mark and Radiant Sun Bolt interact?

Does the extra damage from Hunter's Mark trigger with the Radiant Sun Bolt from the Sun Soul Monk?

dnd-5e spells class-feature monk

Hot RPG Questions

5:57 PM

3

Q: Can a medium creature stand in the middle of 10' hallway?

Playing on a grid, imagine a 10' hallway. Can a medium creature stand between the grid squares, effectively leaving 2½' on each side? Or does the creature have to "hug the wall" and leave full 5' on one side? Reference link to basic rules. I'm asking this for two reasons: mundane "block the corr...

dnd-5e movement battle-map

Shalvenay

6:27 PM

annoying D&D 3.x question -- can a geas compel someone to do something that they aren't ordinarily able to do? (say, wield a weapon skillfully if they aren't proficient in it)

AncientSwordRage

@Shalvenay I think no

nitsua60

6:46 PM

Though, narratively, I could imagine a geas to beat the world's swordmaster--while not making one more proficient--could lead one to practice and train compulsively until doing so....

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 I agree, but not all DMs will.

@Shalvenay Nope. But it can compel them to try, and they'll suffer the consequences of not being proficient ... kind of like 'Yeah, climb the Matterhorn, but you don't know how to use Pitons very well. Good luck!"

3.x is as bad as AD&D 2e on that score, roughly, requiring skill points and non weapons proficiencies.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica actually, with a STR of 20, the Hobbit and Goliath are allegedly equivalent. {further comments censored}

TheDragonOfFlame

Slightly related, is suggestion not extremely OP?

KorvinStarmast

no

TheDragonOfFlame

See an enemy, suggest the walk away.

KorvinStarmast

It is situationally effective, and the Enemy Gets A Save. Any damage ends it

TheDragonOfFlame

6:59 PM

8 hours later they stop walking awya

KorvinStarmast

It is a save or suck spell. Just Like Hold Person.

TheDragonOfFlame

Sure but it lasts longer

KorvinStarmast

@TheDragonOfFlame If the DM plays it that way, yeah. l

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast I could use 'fire giant barbarian weightlifter' vs. 'typical hobbit tailor' or something. Point is, strength is a field where for many actions, 'maximum output' is supposed to be relatively deterministic and non-swingy.

TheDragonOfFlame

effectively remove a high Cr enemy without legendary resistance from combat completely

KorvinStarmast

7:00 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I don't disagree.

@TheDragonOfFlame That's the point, and if they save you burned a spell slot and Nothing Happens.

Do you feel lucky?

TheDragonOfFlame

or just be a level 2 wizard with portent....

KorvinStarmast

@TheDragonOfFlame Edge Case

TheDragonOfFlame

or do it on a beast

beasts typically have -4 wisdom or something (not eagles though)

KorvinStarmast

How many wizards have you played with who 1 took Suggestion and 2 are Divination wizards? IRL.

"White Room Theory Crafting has its own Limits"

TheDragonOfFlame

I’m just saying its a good spell

No other L2 spell removes an enemy from combat for 8 hours upon 1 failed save

*16 hours

KorvinStarmast

7:03 PM

@TheDragonOfFlame Yes, it is a good spell, but its effectiveness is situational and it can Fail. Save or Suck. Do you feel lucky? 😎

TheDragonOfFlame

yeah I guess

KorvinStarmast

All any of your party has to do is mess up and damage it and your brilliant spell is now a box full of fail...

TheDragonOfFlame

The rp potential is also great

KorvinStarmast

@TheDragonOfFlame Oh, Heck yeah! 👍😁

TheDragonOfFlame

It’s one of my arcane trickster (+ other classes because weird multiclass) favorite spelsl

KorvinStarmast

7:06 PM

@TheDragonOfFlame Oh, heck yeah, as is Tasha's Hideous Laughter. 😂

When that one lands, it's a box full of win.

TheDragonOfFlame

That is also a good spell

great for locking down fields which is fun

KorvinStarmast

At level two, if you have six encounters in a day and five of them are combat, that one Tasha's landing is a big bonus/big win.

All the party has to do is nova on that one laughing enemy and the encounter gets 'over' real fast

TheDragonOfFlame

yep

KorvinStarmast

Unless it saves, in which case "nope" happens

TheDragonOfFlame

Sadly concentration and no upcast

But still good

KorvinStarmast

7:08 PM

If it could upcast I think it might get a bit OP, eh?

TheDragonOfFlame

yeah

but it is sad because GOO warlocks get it

but can’t upcast it

so it becomes bad around L5 for a warlock

KorvinStarmast

@TheDragonOfFlame I won't comment beyond that it's a spell that I use for particular situations, and it has no 'humanoid' limit like Hold Person does.

Plus, I like to tell jokes, even Dad Jokes, so that spell lets me do some joke stuff in game ... purely for my own amusement.

TheDragonOfFlame

True and there isn’t really a L3 equivilent

KorvinStarmast

And I sorta have to, since I am me. 😂😁🤠

TheDragonOfFlame

lol

KorvinStarmast

7:12 PM

I tell jokes, and mostly bad ones, even without any spells. It's like I am under a geas to tell bad jokes during D&D games ...

TheDragonOfFlame

Bards are fun

KorvinStarmast

... heck, even my Monk tells jokes.

TheDragonOfFlame

.... 😂

though I had a drunken master goblin monk who was actually drunk so I can’t speak for serious monks

KorvinStarmast

My favorite part is when the whole table groans ... that's like rolling a 20

@TheDragonOfFlame Fair point, Jackie Chan schtick is fun in its own right.

(I love that he does/did most of his own stunts)

TheDragonOfFlame

I read a lot of jokes but I can never remember them

KorvinStarmast

7:23 PM

A halfling, a dwarf, and a human walk into a bar ... the bartender looks up and asks "What, is this some kind of joke?"

I have buckets full of jokes like that.

A termite walks into a saloon and asks "Is the bar tender here?"

I wear kevlar for good reason ....

TheDragonOfFlame

Ah yes I know the termite one

pretty good

kviiri

8:05 PM

I personally love puns, and I've come up with several really long stories that end with an excellent pun. I believe the English word for such stories is Feghoot

One of them is so popular among the student community it's printed in our student org's songbook

A mark of pride for me

In Finnish, they're often called "Roi the German Shepherd dog -joke" because of a particular subcategory including an incredibly long set-up and a punchline based on spoonerisms (or rather, sananmuunnos en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sananmuunnos)

TheDragonOfFlame

Possibly similar to a shaggy dog joke

exceot with a pun

nitsua60

8:42 PM

@KorvinStarmast As a player, I'd be inclined to only take levels in fighter (for example) until I'd completed the geas =)

Shalvenay

9:33 PM

@nitsua60 ah. that makes sense

Xirema

11:52 PM

So warning you guys now: I'm about to ask a rhetorical question (to this chat), but I'm going to pretend like it's not a rhetorical question, at least initially.

My friend is running a one-shot D&D campaign next month where they have informed us that we are allowed two methods of rolling stats:

* 4d6 drop lowest, but stats have to be assigned in the order you roll them (so 1st is strength, 2nd is dex, 3rd is con, etc.)
* 3d6 reroll /all/ ones, and stats may be assigned in any order

Which method of rolling would you choose?

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