TRPG General Chat

12:07 AM

@nitsua60 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I've dropped an arm and the reference...?

@AncientSwordRage Just that they were UA back in the early 80s, then appeared in the 1e ~book~ Unearthed Arcana, and nowadays I feel like they've reached "wouldn't be D&D without" status for most people.

BESW

12:24 AM

A lot of the 3.5 UA material can be traced directly to 4e standard practices, but 3.5 UA didn't have the "experimental" disclaimer so I dunno how relephant that is.

AncientSwordRage

12:40 AM

@nitsua60 that's long before my time

Like before I was born...

nitsua60

@AncientSwordRage I think you and I have different definitions of "ancient," then =)

Oh, or is the sword ancient?

AncientSwordRage

@nitsua60 It's an anagram of my full name

@BESW I remember barbarians in Baldur's Gate

Bardic Wizard

Nearly everything is before I was born

BESW

@BardicWizard I find that this becomes less of an issue as we get older. [grin]

AncientSwordRage

@BardicWizard unless you're ≥7 billion years old that's normally is the case

Ben

1:06 AM

[Insert appropriate Time-of-day greeting]

AncientSwordRage

@Ben `Good ${Greetings[now()]}`

Ben

@BardicWizard I am part of the "we can make everything smaller, and bigger" generation. It was a messy time.

Grew up with Floppy disks VHS and Cassettes, where and impressive household PC name was an IBM. RAM that had more than 2 digits was impressive. Then walkmans were replaced by discmans. Then CDs became writeable. Then re-writable. Then USB was a thing. Then the "Gigabyte" was introduced. But I still have a tapedeck in my stereo system? But if I want to use a floppy I have to get an external device?

IMO, their biggest mistake was removing the ability to take your phone apart with the clip-on phone cases and removeable batteries. This is why Nokias were indestructible. It's like the NES and SNES "100% failure rate" conundrum. Nokias weren't designed to smash apart when you threw them at the wall, but they did, which meant all that force was dissipated by the phone exploding into pieces that you could clip back together.

@AncientSwordRage How are we

Hot RPG Questions

1:31 AM

2

Q: Water Elemental grappling a Huge creature, does it take damage from Whelm's second paragraph?

If a Water Elemental were to use the grappling rules to grapple a Huge creature (since it is Large), would that creature then take damage from this: At the start of each of the elemental's turns, each target grappled by it takes 13 (2d8 + 4) bludgeoning damage. Or does this damage only work aga...

nitsua60

2:00 AM

@AncientSwordRage Wait a minute, you're Town Arcade Reigns!?

Inert Cargoes Wand!

I was going to stop, but...
Dragon Weir Secant!!!

TheDragonOfFlame

Anyone want to brainstorm fun 5e character builds?

nitsua60

shoot--I've got 24 more minutes to kill.

TheDragonOfFlame

optimisation, role play, whatever type of fun

nitsua60

(And at a certain point anagramming a stranger's name crosses into "creepy," and I may well be past that point already.)

TheDragonOfFlame

a character i play for an ongoing campaign is a rogue 5 wizard 2 bard 3 cleric 1 sorcerer one

nitsua60

2:06 AM

Because...?

TheDragonOfFlame

final leveling most likely rogue 5 wizard 2 bard 6 cleric 1 sorcerer 6

dont ask why so many classes, he was supposed to be a rogue wizard

but then I added some classes

also I’ve been meaning to make a rogue barbarian

sneak attacking with a great axe seems very very fun to me

nitsua60

@TheDragonOfFlame I've done that before, and had lots of fun with it.

[rummages]

TheDragonOfFlame

what barb subclass though? Rogue would be swashbuckler or assasin probably

BESW

One of the most powerful rogue builds I ever saw was a 4e rogue who dual-wielded clubs and got sneak attack... basically because everyone was surprised he was trying to sneak attack them with clubs.

nitsua60

Aug 27 '18 at 23:33, by nitsua60

@NautArch (My) Jake the Snake was a member of a thieves' guild who'd really just been a muscle-guy. (The campaign conceit is fugitives from a fallen thieves' guild, so everyone had at least 1 level of rogue or criminal background. I went with Ro1/Bb many and the folk hero background.) We band of refugees came back to my homeland to find that my childhood friend, Jim Duggan, had been disappeared the previous year. So now: to find the source of mayhem!

Sep 13 at 22:41, by nitsua60

@AncientSwordRage Strength rogue with expertise in athletics and a barbarian dip for rage (advantaged athletics checks) was one of my favorites.... Took acrobatics, animal handling, performance, and intimidation as my other proficiencies (I think performance was the other expertise?) and named him Jake the Snake.

@TheDragonOfFlame I'm the wrong guy to ask: the last two barbarians I played I never got around to actually picking subclasses.

TheDragonOfFlame

2:10 AM

@BESW ha that’s great

rogue with a club

oof you mean you never got to L3 or just never bothered

nitsua60

Never bothered.

Got to level 9 in one of them, IIRC, and nothing ever jumped out at me.

TheDragonOfFlame

Berserker could be good.... I’ve never played one I usually go zealot for some reason

nitsua60

Is this for table-play, or just brainstorming for funsies?

TheDragonOfFlame

Justbrainstomring

I play at weekly one shots just to kill monsters though so probably for that

right now I play a kobold light cleric who only ever casts fireball

nitsua60

The thing that's always jumped out at me about Bb/Ro is: rogue gets expertise, and barbarian's signature feature (rage) grants advantage on a (particular) skill check. So expertising athletics just feels so good to lean in to.

The rogue's signature (combat) features, Sneak Attack and Cunning Action, play pretty nicely, too. Cunning action gives a good use for bonus actions that your Bb might otherwise not be getting great use out of, and extra damage (if you can trigger SA) is nice for a frontliner.

So how do you want to approach SA?

TheDragonOfFlame

2:16 AM

Ooh cool

nitsua60

(Focusing on combat since you said monster-hunting is the likely use-case.)

TheDragonOfFlame

amazing grappler

sneak attack due to adjacent allies probably or because of swashbuckler

nitsua60

Grapple, stabby-stabby with daggers?

Or short swords?

They're finesse, but you'll use STR for attacks. I'd flavor it as just laying into people with the flats of blades. Or they're weighted practice swords so you're just swinging for the fences....

The thing about grappling is that you lock yourself in place, in some ways, which isn't great for Cunning Action.

TheDragonOfFlame

Oh yeah sneak has to be finesse doesn’t it

nitsua60

The weapon has to have the finesse tag, but you don't have to use DEX when attacking with it (for SA)--it's a subtlety that trips some up.

TheDragonOfFlame

2:24 AM

Probably dual wield shortswords

nitsua60

What's your thought on proning an opponent once you've got them grappled?

(I.e. are you of the camp that one must use the Shove attack to prone an opponent, or can one move them prone once they're grappled?)

So this conversation has been pretty "use some rogue features (esp. expertise) to make a barbarian awesomer"-focused, but let's not forget the reverse: use rage to make your thief-acrobating awesomer!

Advantage on an expertised athletics check when you get mad? That's a cool circus trick!

AncientSwordRage

@nitsua60 also known as the Wainscotted Ranger; famous for my Inward Ogre Stance. And I emanate the Wrongest Radiance.

MikeQ

angry sneaking intensifies

BESW

Back in 3.5 when I was making higher-level characters I'd often take my first level in barbarian: maxed d12 hit points, good BAB and saves, extra proficiencies and solid skill points, a damage boost option, and a speed increase!

nitsua60

@MikeQ Thief to castle walls: "LET ME IN!!!" [success on athletics check to vault walls]

MikeQ

2:30 AM

Ah, an angry acrobat. That makes more sense. Use rage to jump.

nitsua60

@BESW They're all pretty nice. Nice stealth with that unarmored defense, too =)

Ben

@MikeQ The barbarian has begun whistling like a boiling kettle.

BESW

Barbarian once helped me make a ranger who could out-run... anything...

nitsua60

@MikeQ The catch is that skill checks are occasionally so dicey in 5e. rogue expertise athletics+barbarian grappling/shoving is so reliable, because the rules say you get an athletics check then. But any time else, there's a bit of table-culture around skill checks that has to come into play.

Alright, my watch has ended, I no longer guard the realms of ~~men~~ teenagers.

Ben

I think I have reached that dangerous "I should start a Blog" point in my life

And my brain is also immediately screaming at the idea.

Not in a good way

BESW

2:37 AM

Oh gosh I really need to set up a web presence but I'm so intimidated by all the options and legalities because I want it to be associated with my business.

Ben

Well, mine would be more just a "scream into the void" blog, so thankfully there's nothing in that line of thought affecting my decision.

"I'm here to scream into the void, scream along with me if you want"

Bardic Wizard

2:50 AM

I kinda do that on Instagram but my Instagram followers are 70% high school friends, 25% middle school friends, and 5% my parents and friends of my parents

So nobody who actually knows about crochet or rpgs or anything

Beyond what you pick up on by being around me

Ben

3:23 AM

Caster obsessed with dogs. Casts "Fireball" in shape of dogs. Varies from Wolf to Chihuahua. Also has nicknames like (not limited to) "hotdog", "I.E.Dog", "Flash-bork", and "Go fetch"

TheDragonOfFlame

3:37 AM

Lol

Hot RPG Questions

3:57 AM

6

Q: How does Haste interact with Boots of Striding and Springing?

So I am currently playing a vine leshy ninja in Pathfinder 1e. I am taking the Acceleration of Form ninja trick and Boots of Striding and Springing. Important information that you need to know before I ask the question: The race’s speed is listed as 20 feet. The boots give a +10 bonus to base sp...

spells pathfinder-1e magic-items movement

TheDragonOfFlame

Weird how pathfinder has so many things exactly the same as dnd 5e

i know it’s based off dnd but still

BESW

Thereby hangs a tale.

Ben

Come, sit while we tell you a story, of Wizards Palladiums and Paizos

trogdor

lol

TheDragonOfFlame

But I mean, it takes very little imagination to change a name a bit, for example, boots of lunging and leaping

MikeQ

4:08 AM

It takes even less imagination to leave the other names unchanged and reuse like 80% of the same material

TheDragonOfFlame

True

BESW

Pathfinder was built on the d20 System license, which was exactly like D&D 3.5 except you couldn't use words like "illithid." It came into its own when 3.5 was retired in favor of 4e: people who wanted to still get new 3.5 content just moved to Pathfinder because its compatibility was its main feature.

When 4e proved memetically unsuccessful, Wizards reverted to a lot of 3.5 material in their design for 5e--to the point that I've seen bits of 3.5 text copy-pasted directly into 5e, and I can tell because they left in references to 3.5 stuff that isn't in 5e anymore.

So it makes sense that 5e has a lot of Pathfinder in it; they're both copying verbatim from 3.5.

For both 5e and Pathfinder, the similarity to 3.5 is a feature, not a mistake. They're each designed to appeal to people who miss that edition.

TheDragonOfFlame

Ah

when does 5e reference 3.5e content that does not exist, if you know any examples offhand

BESW

5:08 AM

@TheDragonOfFlame In the section on animal barding, they copied the table for Large animals from 3.5. And only the table for Large animals, so that in 5e barding prices don't scale with size.

TheDragonOfFlame

oh yes ok.

though niether does humanoid armour, it might be useful to point out

BESW

5:29 AM

Okay, had a moment to go find the actual quote, and the give-away is the weight. From the 5e SRD:

> Barding: Barding is armor designed to protect an animal’s head, neck, chest, and body. Any type of armor shown on the Armor table can be purchased as barding. The cost is four times the equivalent armor made for humanoids, and it weighs twice as much.

From the d20 SRD:

> Barding is a type of armor that covers the head, neck, chest, body, and possibly legs of a horse or other mount. Barding made of medium or heavy armor provides better protection than light barding, but at the expense of speed. Barding can be made of any of the armor types found on Table: Armor and Shields.
Armor for a horse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) costs four times as much as armor for a human (a Medium humanoid creature) and also weighs twice as much as the armor found on Table: Armor and Shields (see Armor for Unusual Creatures). If the barding is for a pony or other Medium mount,…

You can see where they tried to tidy up the d20 phrasing and simplify it, but they oversimplified in order to compensate for NOT including all the accompanying tables.

And that oversimplification resulted in, oops, armor for a squirrel, horse, and whale all costs and weighs the same.

Sorry, your adorable squirrel armor weighs 24 times as much as the squirrel.

But good news about your elephant's plate armor, it weighs less than the knight riding her.

Xirema

Womp womp.

BESW

5:45 AM

I mean, of all the problems with Wizards of the Coast, D&D is not my primary concern. Of all the problems with D&D, 5e's particular issues are not my primary concern. And of all 5e's particular issues, poorly edited copy-paste from previous editions is not my primary concern.

2

Xirema

Although mostly this just motivates me to try to invent a diegetic explanation for why Barding for a squirrel A) weighs as much as barding for an elephant, B) why the squirrel totally can handle that weight (but only in this context and in every other context its capacity to carry weight is normal), and C) why this is actually a strategic advantage for the squirrel.

BESW

It's still funny, and indicative of why I find a lot of the mainsite questions rather pointless.

Bardic Wizard

This is kinda hilarious (the squirrel barding and elephant barding thing)

BESW

It's right up there with 3.5's decree that nothing weighing less than a pound can ever take or inflict falling damage.

Bardic Wizard

Also TIL how not to walk in a hoop skirt along with (theoretically) how TO walk in one and how to sit in a hoop skirt

BESW

5:48 AM

Ooh nice.

Bardic Wizard

In theory. It is not easy

BESW

This is a skill I have great respect for.

Bardic Wizard

Stairs and doorways are the worst since you have to kinda pick up some of the hoops and tilt them to fit through. Sitting down is also hard since you kinda have to push the top hoops back so the front doesn’t pop up and then sit down quickly so it’s centered

trogdor

XD

I don't like walking in anything that makes it hard to move around

but I can also respect that skill

Bardic Wizard

Surprisingly it’s not that hard to move in. It’s awkward but I figured out everything but sitting pretty easily

BESW

5:54 AM

Good for physical distancing too, I imagine.

trogdor

is it constrictive? because that's part of why I don't like,... a lot of wearable items

the best example I can think of are belts and ties, I hate those XD

Bardic Wizard

@trogdor no, not really. It ties at the waist and could have a corset attached which would be v constraining but it sort of poofs out and doesn’t weigh much, or at least mine does. I don’t feel super constrained; we tested it and I could run as long as I lifted the hoops up, though it kept hitting into my legs

trogdor

yeah a corset for sure is,.. I don't know how anyone got anyone to ever wear those

Bardic Wizard

If you don’t like belts it might not be so good though since you do have to pull it a little tight

BESW

Hoop skirts actually improved women's fashionable mobility, because it's basically a cage that comes out from your waist and holds your skirt away from your legs, so your legs can move freely. Prior to hoops, the only way to get a puffy skirt was layers on layers on layers on layers of cloth, making the skirt heavy and constricting.

Bardic Wizard

6:00 AM

@BESW some are. Mine’s not that wide (thank Tiamat) but I saw one that’s 6ft across that the seller marketed as the “keep away skirt”

trogdor

@BESW but the corset is also constricting, and maybe my sensory issues with that in particular are really strong, but I hate it XD (not that' I've put a corset in particular on ever)

BESW

[grin] Most corsets aren't the "rearrange your internal organs" kind that movies love to use as a symbol of oppressed womanhood, but they're definitely fitted.

MikeQ

@BESW I dunno if creature weight exists in 5e, so it's possible the elephant and squirrel weigh the same.

trogdor

@BESW for me fitted still counts XD

I'm not a huge fan of the fancy dress shirts and stuff I have to wear sometimes, or jeans

Ben

@MikeQ I am going to present this argument to my DM

And I am interested to see what comes out of it

Bardic Wizard

6:05 AM

@BESW yeah. I did not get a corset

For that reason

BESW

(I've worn a corset, but it wasn't fitted for me so it was very loose.)

Ben

Same, and same. Especially around the chest and waist :P

MikeQ

@Xirema Squirrels eat many acorns, and thus they have absorbed the strength of the mighty oak. Elephants don't eat acorns. Therefore, squirrels are stronger than elephants and can wear heavier armor relative to their body size.

Ben

@MikeQ Elephants eats leaves, fruit and brush, and thus are light and buoyant

An adventurer walks into town, with a squirrel on his shoulder. all the commonfolk gawk and gape at the sight. "The strength they must have!" They think. The wizards and sorcerers are wiser though, they see it for what it truly is; merely an elephant transfigured to look like a squirrel. They scoff at the attempt to parade themselves.

2

Hot RPG Questions

6:48 AM

4

Q: The 5e Inquisitive Subclass allows perception checks as a bonus action. Would that matter in a heavily obscured area during combat?

Let's say an Inquisitive is in a fog cloud. By my understanding, advantage and disadvantage cancels out if you are fighting someone else in that cloud. But if you were able to make a bonus perception check (and succeed) before attacking, could that negate your disadvantage? As far as I can tell...

dnd-5e rogue advantage-and-disadvantage

kviiri

8:00 AM

@TheDragonOfFlame People are attached to names of things. (In addition to the ease of copy pasting). It also makes migrating one's existing games --- which I've heard is a thing --- to one's cool new system if most of the things can remain the same

Hot RPG Questions

8:25 AM

6

Q: Gaining a new type of movement speed after being hit by a Sentinel OA. New speed = 0?

In the following example, what is the spellcaster's fly speed? Example: A character with the Sentinel feat, successfully makes an Opportunity Attack against a spellcaster creature. The spellcaster in turn, casts the fly spell on themselves. Gaining a fly speed of 60. A new type of movement for t...

dnd-5e spells feats movement opportunity-attack

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

8:37 AM

@nitsua60 Could you elaborate what you mean with the last part of the sentence? (I did notice that the skill+attribute total competence bonus range seems surprisingly narrow relative to the dice swing, but that seems not to be what you're referring to in the end of the post.)

Bardic Wizard

1:02 PM

@Ben That sort of makes me think of this book I read years ago called Eats, Shoots, and Leaves that was on the dangers of bad comma placement

NautArch

@BardicWizard Phenomenal grammar book

Bardic Wizard

I have the sequel too but the name eludes me currently

NautArch

The Art of Punctuation is also pretty good

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