@Someone_Evil I would say that we need it at least three times and more if possible. All must know of the amazing news of this new UA.

All chat posts not about the new UA will be summarily deleted.

Our posts about the new UA will blot out the sun

@Someone_Evil lol. I didn't actually see it was posted already when I posted mine... though I do think mine is better because it includes the survey links too :P

On the topic, I find the artificer getting (possible) new subclass(es) interesting

@V2Blast Maybe have a message with the product survey link on its own? It kinda drowns in the longer message

@V2Blast I cleared the stars on the other one because yours was slightly more informative ;)

@Someone_Evil It just occurred to me that all new Artificer Subclasses will be unplayable in Adventurer's League unless the PHB+1 rule gets changed.

@Xirema send all complaints about lost stars to @V2Blast ;-)

@Rubiksmoose Noooooooooo my stars.

Like, Artificer comes from the Eberron book, so how could you use any other sourcebook that might or might not contain subclasses for the Artificer?

I would assume they make some fix to it. There are already a couple of exceptions to the general rule, no?

@Xirema [vague recollection warning] wasn't there a modification to the PHB+1 rule for the Eberron campaign? Or am I just bonkers?

Maybe? Only major exception I can recall off the top of my head is the one about Wizards being able to copy spells into their spellbooks without needing to adhere to the PHB+1 rule.

@Xirema Errrrr... copying spells isn't character creation or advancement, is the thing.

@Xirema They could just republish the class into another sourcebook. Wouldn't be the first time they're reincorporated material into more than one publication, IIRC.

(SCAG --> XGtE for subclasses?)

does XGtE reprint anything from SCAG?

@nitsua60 The writing on the wall is that they're gearing up for a Xanathar 2, Electric Boogaloo book this year, so that wouldn't be completely absurd.

@Xirema I could be completely wrong.

And probably am.

@Carcer No, if they had I wouldn't constantly have to be reminded of SCAG options etc

But then you're just pushing the problem down the line: the next time you publish Artificer subclasses, you'd either have to reprint the class or modify the rule.

@Xirema The obvious solution is for every new book to contain the artificer class. Problem solved

@Xirema But what about D&D 5.5e when they "fix" everything?

@Someone_Evil Or, better, every Artificer subclass should be a new book.

@Carcer Sun Soul monk, Mastermind and Swashbuckler rogues, Storm sorcerer. All originally in SCAG and transcluded to XGtE. But there's some in SCAG not transcluded (Undying, Battlerager, Oath of the Crown, Arcana Domain, Purple Dragon Knight, Bladesinger) and plenty in XGtE that didn't appear in SCAG.

They could update it into the Wayfinder's guide. Better yet, do it without telling anyone and pretend it was always there. (What's the point of a changelog anyway?)

@Someone_Evil hah! that would be very much like WotC

@Someone_Evil Hang on... I've lost track. Can someone remind me what the last couple of 5e books published were?

@nitsua60 ah, fair enough. My memory was off

@nitsua60 I want to say MToF and ERftLW?

(book books, not adventure modules, I assume you mean)

@Carcer I remember feeling pretty cheated when I saw how much overlap there was between the two. SCAG was pretty skimpy to begin with, and then to undercut it like that....

@Carcer Actually, all of them. I have a hard time keeping track of what's been recently published.

XGtE also reprinted/updated some EE spells if I remember correctly

Like, what are the last three books that WotC's published?

@Someone_Evil Yeah, but at least those had been part of the EEPC (a free pdf), not a book I paid for.

@nitsua60 I almost starred that, but it really needs the context.

@Miniman The "best" starred messages are best when taken out of context ;-)

Ravnica, Saltmarsh, Eberron, Avernus... any others recently?

According to themselves E:RftLW, Rick and Morty, Tyranny of Dragons, BG:DiA (skipping some extra-life prducts)

Does that mean the Rick and Morty book is a valid +1 choice for AL purposes?

o/ hello all

As a side note, I feel weird about the Artificer subclass in that UA - its fluff is essentially "the Battlesmith, but we realised Battlesmith doesn't really have a theme", so that's an improvement, but it's even more overpowered and has too many features than the already overpowered and has too many features Battlesmith.

@Someone_Evil What's Tyranny of Dragons? Is it a one-volume reprint of ToD?

@MikeQ Rick and Morty is an adventure module so I think it doesn't count

@nitsua60 yeah they released a single-volume special edition with some light revisions

@G.Moylan Gotcha.

@nitsua60 Apparently it also fixes some of the "released before the game" problems and editing problems they had.

@Miniman Sure--I've heard less-than-stellar things about the condition it was released in. (Somewhat naturally, since they were trying to push it out with the game so brand-spanking new.)

@Miniman UA (like most game testing) tends to start out a bit stronger than what they actually want, for the express purpose of dialling things back for release.

@nitsua60 Is that just a collective noun for dragons? Like a murder of crows or a coalition of cheetahs? "You don't want to go into the old mine, there's a tyranny of dragons down there."

@nitsua60 I haven't yet substantiated this but I've heard they corrected all the stat blocks and revised some encounters

@nitsua60 I mean, it literally released before the Monster Manual and the DMG.

@Xirema I know, but they have a long history of failing to actually dial things back.

I have a question regarding the Bag of Holding in D&D 5E. The DNDBeyond and DMG entry say the bag "cannot be used" while it is turned inside-out - do we think they mean it the interdimensional storage space can't be used or the bag can't be used AT ALL, not even as a mundane bag?

@Yuuki I think it is now =)

dndbeyond.com/magic-items/bag-of-holding

@G.Moylan I was going to post that but I'm not sure it's stackable since it seems to come down to designer intent

@G.Moylan New headcanon: you find a bag that, when you put something in, is spit back out as if by a petulant child. Turning it inside-out, it turns out to be a bag of holding =)

@G.Moylan I think it should be read to mean that the magic doesn't work, not that it ceases to make any physical sense at all

@Xirema What writing on the wall? I'm curious... =)

@nitsua60 Just the fact that they've been really aggressively pushing these subclass UA in the last year. Resembles the year before XGE came out.

@Carcer I was leaning this direction as a way to "hide" the bag unless someone decided to poke around. But I also like @nitsua60's idea :P

@nitsua60 The items are also, mysteriously, wet.

@nitsua60 so what you're saying is it's a reverse bag of holding. A bag of unholding. A bag of dropping.

@Xirema Gotcha. I've gotten out of the habit of keeping up to date with EnWorld, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'd missed something obvious.

@G.Moylan It's also blabbering nonstop.

It's a gab of unholding.

I'm imagining finding something like this in a bargain bin somewhere. Everyone thinks it's broken but nobody thought to turn it right-side-out

kindof like how people assume a door is locked and don't think to check the handle

how about a reversible bag of holding/bag of devouring combo

@Carcer Thanks I hate it, satan.

@Carcer (that's actually hilarious)

It's a bag of devouring. And when you turn it inside-out, it reports you for sexual harassment.

@G.Moylan the satanic version is a bag of holding which stops working if it's turned inside out but turns into a bag of devouring when right way around again

@Carcer it's angry at you until its appetite is sated

double satanic version is a bag of holding/devouring that behaves like a USB connector

@Carcer lol "whichever way you try it you're wrong"

bag of holding, invert it, devouring, invert it, still devouring, invert it again, holding

How does the new Circle of Stars druid's Chalice constellation interact with delayed healing effects like Goodberry?

It says "whenever you cast a spell using a spell slot that restores hit points to another creature, you or another creature regain hit points". Does that effect occur when you cast Goodberry, when a creature eats a goodberry?

It says on cast, so on cast

I'm assuming it's the former?

@Yuuki I'd say it happens when you create the berries?

@Carcer It's a Thue-Morse bag. Invert it again, it starts the whole sequence over, but inverted.

But it also says "whenever you cast a spell that restores hit points to another creature". Could you cast Goodberry, proc the heal, and then eat the berries yourself?

otherwise with spells like this it would activate every time the berries are used, or a healing spirit is touched, etc....

@Yuuki Neither. When you cast the spell, it doesn't restore hit points to anyone. Eating the berries restores hit points.

Are there any spells with delayed healing effects? Like "whenever the target is attacked, they regain X hit points" or "at the end of their turn, target regains Y hit points"?

aura of life?

regenerate?

oh, presumably without an immediate healing effect.

Most of the spells tagged with healing on D&D Beyond with a duration

There's always healing spirit

This seems relevant/helpful for the "what is a healing spell" sort of thing: "Does a Life Cleric casting Goodberry at higher spell levels get more potent Berries?"

Honestly there's this, this, this, this, this, and maybe this. So uhh... heavily wording dependent and not well agreed upon

[amused]

Nevermind, it's been addressed

@BESW The fifth edition of the world's most popular roleplaying game a heavily wording-dependent and not well agreed-upon game.

@nitsua60 I'm once again baffled at 5e walking away from a solved problem.

Which solved problem?

@trogdor How to tell if a feature that improves a type of spell/power (in this case, healing spells) improves one particular spell/power (like Goodberry).

Oh XD

Sigh

In 5e, there's a lot of need to parse the phrasing exactly. Like, if your cleric feature says "when you cast a spell that restores hit points" but goodberry doesn't restore hit points, it creates something that restores hit points later.

But of course, 4e was just like "Does the power have the Healing keyword? There's your answer."

4e had tags/keywords, and it was beautiful

But that's too MMO the fanbase has spoken, strike down the 4e and forget it's existence

XD

But remember to take the way you heal in it and the vague idea of taking rests on your way out

Just don't make it work the exact same way

XP

What's weird is, even D&D 3.5 seems to have been better about tagging spells than 5e, because they had subschools? In 3.5, Cure Light Wounds was clearly labelled "Conjuration (Healing)."

In 5e there are few categories at all... The Schools of Magic matter for almost zero classes/subclasses or anything else

@Medix2 Discount on copying spells! ("woo-hoo" drips lacklusterly from my lips)

X/

@BESW Which problem? I'm not seeing how ambiguity around this makes the game worse for anyone.

If you're okay with being unsure how your character's features work, I'm glad the system's working for you.

Yeah i prefer to know those things

@nitsua60 Yeah that and spell restrictions for Eldritch Fighter and some of the Wizard Subclasses and uhh... I think that's it