TRPG General Chat

Ryan

00:00

someone can cast a light, there's torches, we've got options

NautArch

@Ryan yeah. If you're the only one without, that may cause issues. Hard to be sneaky when someone has to have a light.

V2Blast

@NautArch It's a similar set of vehicle rules as those in Acq Inc and GoS, from what I know - not quite the same as the DMG.

Ryan

true true

NautArch

@Ryan and the ranger is often the sneaky one

Ryan

ah i wasnt really planning on being sneaky

V2Blast

00:17

but... Pass Without Trace!

:P

it's a very useful tool for sneakiness, though it doesn't obligate you to play a sneaky character or anything

Ryan

i just want Zephys Strike. I don't even think I'll take Hunters Mark

Zephys Strike seems significantly better

NautArch

@Ryan increased movement and kiting over increased damage.

Ryan

Zephys Strike increases damage..

read online so maybe it was wrong... opens book frantically

NautArch

@Ryan just on one attack during the minute it's active. otherwise, it's a mobility spell.

Ryan

ahh either it was wrong or I read it wrong. I thought you got advantage on all attacks during the Zephyr Strike

i thought the Force was only one attack but the advantage was the entire time (which would be OP and why I liked it lol)

V2Blast

00:22

yeah, just the one attack

advantage on one attack, and extra damage on that particular attack

and increased walking speed on that turn

Ryan

still Advantage on one attack with Sharpshooter feat is pretty nice but far less nice

seems like Beastmaster for Help Action and Sharpshooter Feat would be better +10 on one attack instead of two attacks

except then you don't get Horde Breaker

KorvinStarmast

01:24

@Xirema role playing. That's the point of the MM variant familiar. Your PC makes a deal with it, it does not summon it. RP.

@GcL And in 5e, since that is how they built the game.

Ben

01:36

trogdor

Lol

Hot RPG Questions

01:58

1

Q: Can a Creature at 0 HP Take Damage?

Inspired by this question (and a comment underneath it), I thought we should have a solid answer on the site for this question: Can a character at 0 HP take damage?

nitsua60

03:51

How's everyone doing?

Good?

Good.

I'm going to bed.

trogdor

Lol

I actually am doing pretty good right now

nitsua60

Alright. Then you're in charge =D

trogdor

Nice

Xirema

04:25

@trogdor What is your decree, sire?

trogdor

Be excellent to each other

9

Xirema

Awesome.

trogdor

XD

V2Blast

lol

V2Blast

05:10

Is there a good existing tag for questions about mechanics for tracking (i.e. following the trail of someone/something)? I tried using the search and it's hard to find questions specifically about that topic because so many other questions use some form of the word "track" to mean other things (e.g. keeping track of expended resources, party loot, etc.) besides what I'm talking about.

Seems like a good candidate for a tag but I wanted to check if there was an existing one first

Ben

05:21

there's resource-consumption?

V2Blast

That's the exact topic I'm not talking about :P

Ben

Yeah. That's the closest I could find. Which sort of answers your question haha

V2Blast

fair enough

Hmm... Do you think tracking is a clear enough name on its own (with soon-to-be-added tag info) for it, or can you think of anything better to avoid confusion with other topics like that one?

tracking-creatures occurred to me, but I feel it kind of leaves out the possibility of tracking mechanics in games that involve vehicles and the like

MikeQ

05:37

@V2Blast If there was a clear need for it, "tracking" seems like an appropriate name

V2Blast

@MikeQ Thanks for weighing in. I do think it would be a useful tag :)

Ben

Maybe resource tracking?

Unless you are thinking of using it in a more general manner

V2Blast

Again, that's the exact thing I'm not asking about - that's the topic that makes it hard to find questions about the kind of tracking I mean. The kind of tracking I mean is what I mentioned above: "following the trail of someone/something"

Ben

06:01

Oh right.

I got confused

For some reason I got it in my head from the get go you were talking about tracking specific aspects of a creature, i.e it's health, or how many spit venom attacks it has left.

V2Blast

lol, no worries. I figured my mention of "other things (e.g. keeping track of expended resources, party loot, etc.)" got you mixed up.

Someone_Evil

@V2Blast investigation?

V2Blast

@Someone_Evil That seems very different in scope:

> For questions about investigating mysteries and crime in-game. Finding and interpreting clues, interrogating witnesses and catching criminals is often crucial to such investigations.

Anyway, an update since I mentioned it here: I did indeed make the tracking tag and added it to the questions about the topic that I could find. :)

Someone_Evil

Wait, tracking exists. Oh, ok I see

Turns out my question list was set to newest, so it didn't show me the last edit time. My bad.

The Oracle

06:41

1

Q: How to handle a new user accidentally making multiple account and suggesting edits to their own question?

I just improved an edit from the suggested edits queue and I am trying to work out if I did the right thing. The original question is by a new user with 1 reputation. It was closed by Rubik's for lacking a system/edition. The edit added a lot of good information and clarified the question, howe...

discussion specific-question new-users suggested-edits

kviiri

@trogdor I got my basic water treatment setup ongoing!

trogdor

cool!

how did you set it up?

kviiri

And electrolysis wound up indirectly saving a lot of water since I need much fewer terraria.

@trogdor Sieve, a couple of buffer reservoirs, electrolyser in a closed, airlocked room (not perfectly but I can tolerate small leakages for now) with a gas filter venting hydrogen to a generator and oxygen to living areas

trogdor

that's actually how I have it set up right now too XD

kviiri

I also started renovating central areas to be more oriented around a single "main shaft" for heavy duty wires

and poles

I also renovated my sleeping areas to be enclosed since that apparently gives a Room morale bonus

trogdor

06:50

yes

I suggest you make them large enough to get the better bonus eventually

so when you can finally make better beds you can just swap them out and don't need to rebuild rooms

(the better beds are also bigger too)

Powerdork

How are folks?

trogdor

pretty good right now

how about you?

kviiri

@trogdor Yea, I'm gonna re-re-renovate soon :D

trogdor

XD

Powerdork

Slightly off balance. I just ended a stream for viewership reasons.

kviiri

06:57

I'm having no morale problems at this time so I'm trying to expand my resource inputs

@trogdor Algae terraria, to save algae, seemed like a great idea until I realized how much water they need and how much filth they produce. Lots of manual labor, lots of fresh water wasted x(

trogdor

@Powerdork ah, sorry to hear that

@kviiri yeah,... it's useful in it's own way but it's a lot of extra loot

kviiri

Yea, I wanted to conserve algae but now that I have electrolysis ongoing it's much less pressing

trogdor

you can also make more with slime

which I've done before but haven't bothered to this time because I got electrolysis up so fast

kviiri

Yeah, slime seems a bit of hassle for now although I'll probably want it at some point

trogdor

I think it might be more useful for farming or something rather than turning into algae, but I've never used it for anything else

kviiri

07:10

My dupes managed to drain one of my main natural water reservoirs within just a couple of cycles, watering the algae

They're amazingly fast

I've been pumping water back from another, larger reservoir, and it takes ages :D

trogdor

yeah it definitely does

V2Blast

The Waterdeep: Dragon Heist campaign I'm in on Tuesdays is currently on hold due to the DM's computer totally failing :(

trogdor

aw dang :(

V2Blast

also had a player drop out and another player not show up in the L5R 5e campaign I'm on Mondays, so that session was canceled too

Pierre Cathé

07:29

Morning all

kviiri

07:42

Morning!

Matteo Devi

09:48

morning

Got a qeustion: In the hurry of preparing last session, I accidentally gave the Aid spell to an Abjuration mage, without noticing it was acually a cleric spell (I justified it saying that the wizard that teached that to him used to work a lot with temples and studies divine spell magic flow and managed to replicate some of it.. bla bla bla :P ).

Do you think that a an Abjuration Wizard is too powerful with Aid?

Aid is a 2n level spell that gives +5 HP, it's an Abjuration spell, so when an Abjuration wizard cast it it get 5 + 2x level + int modifier temporary HP, plus 5 for every slot level above 2nd.

Sdjz

@MatteoDevi Do you mean from the Abjuration wizard's Arcane Ward? D&D 5e presumably?

Sirv

10:14

I don't think you'll break anything with that

Abjuration wizards will probably activate their ward with mage armour anyway, so it isn't a huge buff in that way

It wouldn't be hugely better than having a cleric cast it

Sdjz

Although it is a significant improvement as the normal lvl 2 abjuration spell options for wizards are only arcane lock (or upcasting a lvl 1 spell)

Sirv

A cool thing to hand out to a player while you hand out a +1 sword to the fighter or something

true, but why do you want that?

Sdjz

just to make use of recharging the ward I guess

Sirv

if you are in combat, then casting it isn't optimal even with the ward recharge

and out of combat you have rituals to recharge

so its not a huge deal

it might help one time when you are under time pressure to have a quick healing session, but it would be the exception to the rule

Someone_Evil

@MatteoDevi Is this Wizard a PC or NPC?

Someone_Evil

10:53

I assume this question actually makes sense, but as someone who has no familiarity with Burning Wheel I feel like I have had a stroke

V2Blast

@Someone_Evil What are B6 and 3D, I wonder

Someone_Evil

I also struggle with "uphrase" as a verb(?)

@V2Blast Positions on a chess board?

kviiri

Burning Wheel uses only d6 so I could reasonably assume 3D means something like "a skill for which I get to throw three dice"

V2Blast

@Someone_Evil oh yeah, that too. I assume it's a typo (of "up" + some other word. similar to "upcast") but I don't know of what

kviiri

Upraise!

Someone_Evil

11:01

Ok, since you appear to be literate (unlike myself), does the question posted make sense?

kviiri

I'm not tremendously BW-literate, no

I know the tiniest tidbits

V2Blast

11:17

@kviiri That was my guess

Someone_Evil

11:59

Well, looks like the question made sense to the great prime die

goodguy5

12:10

Well, that was exciting.... my work laptop dropped out of DNS for about 10 minutes, because... reasons?

Carcer

dark mysteries

Matteo Devi

@Someone_Evil a wizard pc

@Sdjz yep

@Sirv The player wants to build some sort of tanky battle mage.. I saw the spell and I just thougt that is was perfect for what the player wanted. But then i noticed it was a cleric spell. In fact I was wondering why he didn't pick that one on level up.. I was afraid some sort of cheesiness could be done with that but if that's there case i'll just homebrew some rules to balance it.

Rubiksmoose

12:38

Hello friends :)

@Someone_Evil I love that. I had the same thought. Like what even are these words.

kviiri

13:10

sup

@trogdor At first I thought ONI was easy, I mean I didn't get into trouble for quite a while into the game and assumed my heritage with Dwarf Fortress and Factorio helped me plan ahead.

But I realized that had I actually ran out of water, like I was very close to doing thanks to the heavy drinking of those algae terraria, I would've completely lost my already precarious calorie situation

goodguy5

O2NI is something I've been avoiding playing because I know it feeds into my obsessive game tendencies.

That's the kind of game that I'll "accidentally" stay up until 2AM playing.

kviiri

Heh, I know what you mean :-)

NautArch

13:31

howdy howdy!

not sure if this is better for Meta, but should we treat DMsGuild stuff as WoTC when folks are asking for content, or is it more like homebrew where we should only recommend if we can talk about experience with it?

MikeQ

@NautArch Probably depends on the publisher. I think anyone can upload content to DMsGuild, so there's no assurance of quality beyond homebrew elsewhere on the internets

NautArch

@MikeQ Yeah, I guess it's a possibility of WoTC published it, but even then it's tricky.

MikeQ

Although some files are uploaded by trusted official or 3rd party publishers

NautArch

THey really made it confusing. I'm just not sure how to handle the content on there. It seems like an 'official platform' for any content. From trusted publishers to dandwiki level. But without any way to know.

MikeQ

Well, I suppose you could check the user who uploaded a file, and cross-reference that to see if they're a legit publisher

NautArch

13:40

@MikeQ but does legit publishers mean that item is legit? Probably in most cases, but it seems like if you are going to recommend 3rd party, it should be something you've tried.

MikeQ

Generally speaking, answers should only recommend things that they've tried, if it's a matter of experience

And my experiences with other systems has taught me that "third party publisher" has no guarantee that the content is balanced or good or otherwise playable

NautArch

yeah, that's my hunch, too.

it just seems like DMsGuild legitimizes things more than it should.

MikeQ

This definitely warrants a meta discussion though

For any sort of recommendation / build / "does X exist" question, citing 3rd party stuff should not be the same as citing official material.

NautArch

2

Q: Is the DMsGuild considered Homebrew and if so, should we always use the homebrew tag in parallel?

Based on this question, and the use of the DMs guild tag it made me wonder if the DMsGuild tag is an equivalent to Homebrew or if it should get both tags (one to identify it from DMsGuild and the other to let everyone know this still qualifies as Homebrew.) My concern is that the DMs Guild creat...

discussion tags

^Related, and I've clearly got a bone to pick with DMSGuild :P

goodguy5

D:

My biggest issue with them is how long their site takes to load.

Gwideon

13:54

hello

kviiri

Hi

Gwideon

how is everyone

kviiri

A bit miffed at some off-topic news and popular responses to that.

Gwideon

what is this off topic news?

sorry I'm kinda oblivious

kviiri

A student wielding a sword attacked a vocational college they studied in in Kuopio, nine people including the perp were injured and one person was killed. Attacks like this are super rare around here and the reactions that irk me are basically nationalists already loudly shouting "wild guesses" about the motives behind the attack.

Gwideon

14:00

oh okay. wow

goodguy5

you're in one of the "lands", right kiv?

the finn one, I think

kviiri

@goodguy5 Finland, yes

One of the most bigoted ones I saw so far was "even if the attacker wasn't an immigrant Muslim, their methods sure are". Yeah, found out a way to pin the blame on the Islamic community anyway...

Luckily most people have more sense than that.

Gwideon

oh wow that's....just dumb

goodguy5

"glad" is the wrong word, but I'm going to use it anyway.

I'm glad that it's not just the US with a bunch of people with... creative viewpoints.

kviiri

@goodguy5 Haha, I can emphatize :D

But yeah. I'm happy the police responded fast and the situation was over quickly. The perp was shot after threatening the police but was apprehended alive. Nice to have people tried for these crimes for a change.

Y'know, for relative values of "nice".

Rubiksmoose

14:07

5

Q: What does '100% answered' mean in 'Today's Featured Site'?

Today's featured site is Role-playing Games and the card is shown as follows: RPG clearly has unanswered questions. What is meant by the '100% answered'?

support featured-site

Only 99.628% answered? C'mon you bunch of slackers ;)

The Oracle

0

Q: Please give your feedback on a new "Subjective Citation Needed" post notice

One of the tools that diamond moderators have at their disposal is the post notice. We have several different types of post notice for example, this one, for posts that require additional citations: Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to ...

discussion good-subjective

Gwideon

wait we got featured site

Rubiksmoose

Apparently :)

Gwideon

Nice ^^

so I found my dm notes

NautArch

14:25

@Gwideon yay! Where were they?

Gwideon

they were in one of my classes on a table in the back. It was kinda hidden so yeah

I also got my curses done.

one of the curses I really like causes the targeted player to fall hopelessly in love with the first monster that they see.

MikeQ

It targets the player? That's some advanced level of DM skill.

Gwideon

well in order for a curse to be used a player has to use one of their sabotage points and tell me what player they want the curse to affect. I then roll on a table to see what curse is used.

this is all done within the context of an interdiminsional game show so it gives me an excuse to explain one shot unique mechanics in character

Yuuki

14:41

@MikeQ Making players fall in love with monsters? That's easy, just make a goblin called... Boblin.

goodguy5

@Gwideon Mike is joking about the difference between effects on players, vs on characters.

Gwideon

oh i'm dumb. I kinda use players and character's interchangeably

goodguy5

It mostly only matters when one of them dies.

"One of our players got really sick, so we tore up his paper and left him to die."

is very different than
"One of our PC's got really sick, so we tore up his paper and left him to die."

Gwideon

yeah that is true

Someone_Evil

15:03

I'm not sure you can use flags in chat to get things moved. I think you need BESW or a local diamond to move things. Not sure BESW can move things to EPoM, though.

Rubiksmoose

→ 22 messages moved to Elemental Plane of Math

Emilie

@Someone_Evil This :) You just pinged a bunch of mods who probably can't do anything about this. sorry!

Rubiksmoose

But you also happened to get me as well :)

goodguy5

Ah, I see.

Emilie

@Rubiksmoose Cheers! :)

Rubiksmoose

15:05

No biggie.

Chat flags just go out to all moderators accross the site. They'll usually decine things if they don't know how to handle it or don't see what needs to be handled.

goodguy5

How should that be handled?

Rubiksmoose

It's probably best to just ping one of the mods or BESW and we should be able to help you at some point.

goodguy5

just ping one of you?

fair

Rubiksmoose

Yuppers!

Someone_Evil

While we're on the topic: chat flags go out to some 10k's as well?

GcL

15:07

@Gwideon I used to do the same thing, but splitting it out makes for way better role play and can help avert my guy syndrome.

@Someone_Evil Like those blue dot notifications asking if something is offensive?

Someone_Evil

Yes

GcL

For the record, "merkin" is not what you think, but also not offensive.

goodguy5

Wait, why did you say that?

Isn't "Merkin" The present participle of "Merk"?

Someone_Evil

@GcL Is the context for that a different chat perhaps?

GcL

@Someone_Evil Context was a little blue dot. Wander over to that chat. Take a look. Wonder... huh, that might be offensive. Not offensive. Just regret looking it up.

Someone_Evil

15:15

I don't think I got that blue dot, so I don't know what chat it is. I do however know one meaning for the word merkin and do not feel like discussing it in a stack chat.

GcL

It was a while ago. Just one that stood out in my memory.

@Rubiksmoose I see your comment to draw me further into meta, but I must decline. I only answered on the request for feedback because it was your name as the OP, and to provide a voice for "maybe don't".

Rubiksmoose

@GcL Understood.

I do wish someone would though because this seems like a discussion that we should be having. It seems the community is not wholly on the same page about this issue and I'd like to see if we can help change that.

GcL

15:32

@Rubiksmoose I think that would be a good discussion to have. I think having a list of things that could improve a question or answer is fine. I'd like to believe that anyone trying to help asks, "is this actually bad?" first.

I know that sometimes you get a shiny new ~~hammer~~ guideline and many things start looking like they're ~~nails~~ improvable.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL Well if by "bad" you mean incorrect, that is a bit of a problem for moderation. We don't judge correct or not correct. Often, we can't even if we wanted to. And I don't think we should have a policy that hinges on distinguishing between the two.

@GcL Well, FWIW, we have been using other mod notices as substitutes for the one being proposed. So, it's not like we haven't already been acting on flags and posts in the same way we'll continue acting on them (barring some change in the Meta of course).

GcL

@Rubiksmoose I think anyone should think twice about "what about this answer or question makes reading it a bad experience?" If the result is, "the answer is fine" or "the answer is good" then don't muck about with it.

Specifically for asking for referencing the good subjective guideline, "is this answer bad? and could adding direct personal experience likely improve it?"

Rubiksmoose

I kind of see what you're saying, but I'm not sure using "good" and "bad" here is helpful because I don't know who is judging it and how. If you ask our current guidelines (by some interpretations), any answer without some sort of support is "bad" from a policy standpoint even if it is correct factually.

NautArch

@GcL I don't know how we can judge good/bad here. There are have been a lot of time I've answered (or seen answers) where something I thought would be 'bad' was backed up by experience and I realize what I thought might be bad wasn't because of the experience provided.

It's why experience is the difference maker between idea generation and idea recommendation.

Rubiksmoose

Anyways, I have to go but feel free to continue. I'll check back in later.

GcL

15:42

@NautArch Is the question or answer a bad experience for the reader? E.g. as a user reading an answer, it would be better if it had a few paragraphs about this one time at band camp.

I think I went back and forth on this about my answer here: rpg.stackexchange.com/a/135957/38434

NautArch

@GcL I'm still trying to separate the reader experience from how we currently like to see answers. In my mind, it's another big part of what separates us from forums.

On forums, ideas are generated and suggested. But here, I like to think we've got a higher standard where it's not just about "here's an idea", but "here's an idea i've tried and here's how it went". That's a lot more useful.

GcL

@NautArch I think making or requesting changes for the sake of doing it or for the sake of guidelines might not be worth the cost if the result is not to provide a better experience for the users of the site.

@NautArch I think it is, but the answers I cited... one of which is yours.... are great answers that do not do that.

One of my favorites is prime dice's, "I've been playing for 25 years... [sic] and wouldn't attempt this "

NautArch

@GcL Well, it's not about the guideline, it's about our standard. And answers should meet our standards so that our standard remains high and our value remains high.

@GcL Oh definitely! I've submitted answers in the past that I haven't supported that have been very well received. But I know better now and I don't do that anymore. I think it's better for me actual try the things I recommend (and now I do so.)

I don't think it's worth going back and resolving old answers like that, but we can move forward with trying to be better.

GcL

@NautArch The answer was well received (in my recollection) and a good answer. It just doesn't follow the good subjective guideline.

NautArch

@GcL And to me, it's not an answer I'd supply again.

I think it's better to add that experiential support.

GcL

15:53

@NautArch And the site would be worse off for that. So the guideline would have prevented a good answer.

NautArch

And I've personally stopped just generating ideas and always back up my answers with experience. And I think my answers have improved because of that.

GcL

Which would have made it less useful for me.

NautArch

@GcL Maybe? Just because I may have guessed right on my ideas doesn't mean it was good.

GcL

I asumed the answer implicitly drew upon the culmination of your experiences playing the game.

NautArch

@GcL Kindasorta. But again, there's no way to know how much experience anyone is actually bringing to the table when providing ideas.

I could have just started yesterday and just happened to have a had a relevant/good idea.

GcL

15:56

A great deal of experience is being able to guess correctly despite not being able to put your finger on precisely why. Implicit cognition is valuable.

@NautArch Sure, and you also don't know if someone is just saying "yeah I totally tried this for reals " just to skirt someone needling them about it.

Carcer

the thing is that it is entirely plausible for someone who has a lot of experience to be able to formulate something good by gut instinct/intuition without being able to actually point to a specific example they can make relevant

NautArch

@GcL Well, yeah that can happen. BUt I'd prefer to err on the side that people actually have done it.

Someone can definitely lie and put together a story about how it went.

but if they're going that far, then /shrug.

But I think the majority of the time folks will present things they have done.

We have a lot of collective experience here, we should share that specific experience when bringing up an idea.

GcL

@NautArch I think that has a cost to doing it, and at least in the case of one of your good answers, would have prevented it from being submitted.

NautArch

@GcL But again, I personally believe it would be a much better answer if I could have supported it. And I do plan on doing that if/when the group I DM ever meets again :)

Carcer

or simply by analysis, too, because if you know a game's ruleset really well you can often make a very accurate appraisal of what the effect of a certain rules change will be without having to have had any experience actually trying that rules change

NautArch

15:59

It doesn't change my mind that experience-supported answers are our actual standard and my preferrred one.

@Carcer Maybe? I can think of situations where I thought something would/wouldn't work and was surprised when the opposite occurred.

GcL

@NautArch I think preferring them is fine. I think requiring them and bugging people about it has a cost.

NautArch

@GcL I think the cost is greater to have unsupported answers. ANd it's okay for us to disagree and then it goes back to meta to see what site consensus is.

but when consensus points to one, we all need to do our best to follow it.

KorvinStarmast

16:48

@V2Blast Not sure if we need another player in our Salt Marsh Monday group, my son had to drop out. Let me check with the group.

@Gwideon Hooray! Let there be great rejoicing! :)

@GcL I noticed that as well.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast As I said after that, I think the benefit of having answers that have that support outweighs the cost of asking for it.

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer Yes, which is why I started pointing out this meta a few months back as this discussion kept going without resolution.

@NautArch I agree that answers with support are more often more useful, and I prefer to let the votes rack and stack usefulness. IMO, that's the stack working as it is intended to. Those with better support get more votes.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Maybe it's my general distrust of the masses (which is what voting represents), but I like having a high standard here. It's part of what differentiates us.

Ignoring that standard for the sake of votes isn't something I'd like to see happen.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Actually, the voting system does not so discriminate against the masses, at least in this system. I think that is on purpose. I believe that more votes will tend to aggregate on the better answers.

@NautArch I don't disagree with pointing to "support will improve this answer" because it often will. What I was getting all froggy about a few weeks back was what appeared to me to be a case of community badgering users, and particularly new users. I think GcL may be perceiving something similar.

NautArch

17:05

@KorvinStarmast Possibly, but there may be a perception of badgering if you inherently feel that it's not necessary.

WHenin fact it isn't badgering, but an attempt to meet our standards.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch But I don't "inherently feel that it is not necessary", so maybe you are mis reading my point here?

The voting system is built to stack the better above the not as good. That's a fundamental core of the SE engine. It isn't meant to restrict the number of answers that do arrive.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I wasn't necessarily referencing you, just that if folks think it's not necessary and they get asked for it, they may think said asking is badgering.

KorvinStarmast

IIRC, SSD described it as a flesh based algorithm to me when I was first participating here.

NautArch

and it would be to them.

goodguy5

@KorvinStarmast that's so uncomfortable

KorvinStarmast

17:08

@NautArch Ah, I see your point, got it. At that point we get into style and tone, I suspect.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast very much so! That definitely plays a part. And some folks may also use worse tone when they feel they are repeating themselves - which isn't helpful.

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 It led to me crafting my second neologism that only happened due to encountering the SE system.

NautArch

But if you're looking for being badgered about it, you'll feel badgered.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Which of course leads to mushrooms, if enough badgering manifests itself. This may be a better link

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast or you end up at University of Wisconsin.

I guess overall I see it as either we have the standard and we try to uphold it, or we don't. I don't really see a middle ground.

KorvinStarmast

17:13

@NautArch Well, nowadays, that's good if you are a football fan. (There is an infamous T Shirt from the 70's that read "fork 'em Bucky"

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Not quite a gig'em, but i'll take it.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I think the "either or" is a problem approach. I see it as a continuum.

And the "fork" was a different word. Gig'em is more family friendly. (I am related by marriage to an Aggie ...)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast yes, but when an answer that doesn't meet the standard gets high votes, I feel weird.

@KorvinStarmast much more friendly. Unless you go to TCU.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch It doesn't happen that often, and when it does we can always go to meta and discuss it. (As the flame/fire for worn objects went .. though that was the designer reasons debacle ... )

@NautArch Go Horned Frogs! (Couple of good buddies from church went to TCU. I have become a fan of the purple ...)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Right, but it still means the community is opting, at times, to ignore the standard. We don't remove those answers (nor should we), but I think it's better to get ahead of it than react to it.

KorvinStarmast

17:16

Plus: Ladamien Tomlinson

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast much better than Johnny Manziel

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Which takes us back to style and tone. I think it works better with a certain tone, or style, but I don't think the community is cohesive enough to dictate a style guide.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast ANd style/tone may be where the meta on the notice is coming from.

If we can flag it and have that put in place, that's better than the differences in individual response

KorvinStarmast

But does everyone link to the GS/BS meta? And which one? (We have numerous) That takes a bit more effort than a comment, right? ;)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast exactly - hence the notice being the optimal choice here.

flag and let the notice do the work

more impactful and can be toned nicely.

my one bummer is I really like the answer mxy put to my question (which was then later duplicated to the original), but the answer I think is better.

KorvinStarmast

17:20

@NautArch yeah, in the ideal case, I concur.

Some users don't want to be bothered with the meta. Their purpose is more focused: this question, my answer, off to my next thing.

@NautArch Yes, I liked the answer as it summed up a number of long running things related to a thing.

NautArch

18:01

@KorvinStarmast I'm thinking about the experience thing and it reminds me of consulting.

Consultants are trained and experienced. THey come up with ideas.

But they still want to test those ideas and verify that they were actually good.

Howdy @mxyzplk!

KorvinStarmast

18:29

@NautArch And their ideas are based on their experience: which takes me back to this meta.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast True, but then we're back to the point of show don't tell about experience.

KorvinStarmast

It's a continuum, not either or. We get multiple answers. Pick the best one(s) and vote.

NautArch

being an expert and showing your experience about a particular issue/idea are two separate things.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch All we do here is tell. This is a text based medium.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast :P. I think you know what i meant, though.

KorvinStarmast

19:23

@NautArch I'll offer an idea here, as food for thought. The creation of an anecdote requirement has been remarked on by a number of long term users as either onerous, or in various other terms unfavorably. GcL covered one in his meta answer, and I've seen a few others that I am not interested in digging up. I estimate that those voices perceive that their feedback is being dismissed.

Hot RPG Questions

19:38

7

Q: Are there any official mechanics for grafts or anything similar?

In D&D 3.5e there were a number of options which PC's (and the DM) could use to augment themselves (or monsters) for a cost. Of these numerous options, I am focusing on grafts. Has anything similar to grafts from D&D 3.5e been introduced in D&D 5e so far? Certain grafts were iconic to certain en...

dnd-5e

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I believe the anecdote issue was addressed by reviewing the overall stack policies on backing up subjective. It's not their concerns were dismissed, it's that they were addressed but they didn't agree with the outcome.

Rubiksmoose

Part of the issue is that we have not received any of this feedback in a place where we can act on it: on Meta.

We love comments and notes in places, but if they are a matter of community import, Meta is the only real place those discussions will have a ton of impact.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose It is on meta that they are being dismissed. (or at least that seems to be the message I was getting, but I may not have grokked it all)

To me the issue is the difference between encouraging support, or added support, and writing a policy. I see no value in the latter, I see value in the former. The votes will usually drive the better answers to the top, but it doesn't matter if now and again they don't. This is a subjective stack in the first place.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast The problem is, we already have a policy. Some people have different interpretations of that policy, but the policy itself isn't new or going away.

@KorvinStarmast Link? In my time as moderator I've not seen any Meta posts on this issue as far as I can remember.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, I prefer Guidance to Policy on this matter. I disagree that a policy is needed. But you already know that from our previous conversation. :)

Rubiksmoose

19:50

Yes indeed :)

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Racking my brain here, as I am not sure if I am remember comments on meta, or comments in chat or comments under questions that got axed/cleaned up. I've not given this any thought for a while, as the grandbaby has taken first place in where my brain goes these days.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast Hah! That seems like a more than fair allocation of brain space.

GcL

@Rubiksmoose What proportion of the community actually participates on Meta?

KorvinStarmast

@GcL IIRC, less than 5%, and maybe less than 3%, I can't recall where I saw that kind of number crop up, though.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL A very very small portion.

But it is the place we have and we try to make it work the best we can while acknowledging its limitations.

KorvinStarmast

20:01

@GcL That said, the population who care enough to engage on meta are those who will tend to inform policy. For a RL parallel, in our local district/county, voter turnout is less than 20% unless it is a national election. But that small group of voters still elect who is mayor, on city council, bond issues, etc.

GcL

Seems like something to keep in mind when having discussions in the only impactful place.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL For sure, and we do.

Yuuki

20:16

New character backstory: "I was born at a young age..."

GcL

It's an older tale, but it checks out.

Xirema

When I was still a child, I wasn't very old....

Yuuki

"I was to be born at home, as the doctors decided it was best for me to be close to my mother when it happened."

GcL

Lots of wisdom in doing it that way. Otherwise you'd end up with a brave new way of doing things.

MikeQ

"It all began on the day of my actual birth. Both of my parents failed to show up."

Gwideon

20:26

hello

GcL

20:41

@MikeQ Good excuse to be late for your own funeral.

@Gwideon Word. How's your day going?

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki My cousin's son was born at home ... somewhat by happenstance. The midwife made it in time ...

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Which is why you always call them so they can make it in time.

Gwideon

21:00

@GcL It's going alright

KorvinStarmast

@GcL The original plan included getting to a hospital with the MW .... anyhoo, it all worked out.

Himitsu_no_Yami

23:04

sweet jesus that spore druid question. I made an edit to try to fix up the grammar for what they are asking

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (348): How can I curtail abuse of the Illusion wizard's Illusory Reality feature? by larry dina on rpg.SE

MikeQ

@Himitsu_no_Yami Be patient. Plenty of internet users don't write formally. Maybe English isn't their first language.

Himitsu_no_Yami

you've got a point

Black Spike

23:21

@MikeQ Is something I'm battling with ... I joined a Facebook Android-Coding group ... seems to be lots of Indian/Pakistani/"sub-continent" (Not sure of correct phrasing) ... is a long way away from "The Queen's English" ... and I'm thinking "How can they write Correct Syntax, Valid Code?!?!

Yet their Code is good.

MikeQ

@BlackSpike Because Java language is logical and coherent. At least, moreso than English.

Black Spike

@MikeQ :D English has it's own internal logic and coherency! <I almost typed that with a straight face!)

But yes, when there are strict rules of what the Compiler will accept, you have to work with that ... English, well, the Rules are ... more like Guidelines

Is just a little jarring (for me) when you have a post in "broken"/not-my-dialect/2nd-language, asking "How is the fault in two function be caused?" ... followed by some elegant Code ... :)

MikeQ

23:44

@BlackSpike its* own

Black Spike

@MikeQ yes. sorry.

MikeQ

See what I mean? English. It's a pain.

Black Spike

@MikeQ yup! Even as a native speaker, I don't always get it right

(that is a tricksy one ... it has ownership, it needs an apostrophe ... Spike's own ... Mike's own .. its own ... ???)

V2Blast

23:58

@NautArch It's basically all unofficial third-party content - except that which is released by Wizards of the Coast themselves (e.g. various Extra Life releases by them, the Plane Shift PDFs), which is of varying levels of "officiality". It's just a platform for distribution.

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