TRPG General Chat

12:01 AM

There's just the four things to track: Aspects (Bravery, Innocence, Kindness, they're like skills); Resources (Light, Map, Secrets, they're your risk-to-continue currency); Soul Resilience (your ability to continue in the Forest, roughly hit-point-like); and the progress of the Brothers Six. It's all on your character sheet and any unusual interactions are explained in the adventure pages when you encounter them.

V2Blast

12:20 AM

Aziz Ansari’s Dad Has a Special PSA | Netflix

►

Shoukath Ansari has something important to talk to you about.

C. Ross

My wife and I were discussing stranger things, and while it is associated with D&D due to all the allusions, Call of Cthulhu seems like a better game for the setting. Has anyone already done a CoC skin for Stranger things?

BESW

I'd probably go with a horror drift of Bubblegumshoe, myself.

trogdor

Oh man yeah

That would work

MikeQ

@C.Ross Depends which part of Stranger Things. By season 3, there are simultaneous narratives of different genres, depending on whose storyline is in focus (e.g. "run away from scary things" vs "shoot scary things")

BESW

There's several horror Bubblegumshoe drifts in the back of the book, it'd probably work to just grab some of their elements.

C. Ross

12:33 AM

@BESW Thanks for reminding me, I need to buy that for the kids.

@MikeQ Ummm, CoC does both of those things?

BESW

The Bellairs Falls drift is YA horror, and there's middle-school mods in Kimball High School that you can easily incorporate.

@C.Ross I wouldn't use CoC because it's one of those "technically does everything so doesn't actually do anything really tightly" systems.

C. Ross

@BESW You and I disagree about systems :-)

MikeQ

BESW's correct. If you were doing a narrative from the perspective of the kid protagonists, then pulling in CoC's combat mechanics might be out-of-theme.

BESW

A Bubblegumshoe game would put the focus on the Sleuths' relationships with their community and emphasize that violence beyond scuffling is Serious Business.

MikeQ

Also if you wanted a bonds/friendships/relationships mechanic, CoC doesn't really provide that. But if you're trying to replicate the feel of the adult characters' narrative in Stranger Things, then yes, CoC could probably suffice.

BESW

12:37 AM

The Bellairs Falls drift has solid rules for knowing about Weird Stuff without doing Weird Stuff (the kids figuring stuff out based on their experience with D&D and consulting their science teacher) and also being able to do magic but often at the cost of losing Cool and gaining obsessions.

Kimball Middle School adds mentor/sidekick rules and the Sweet Ride feature gives narrative permission for younger kids to travel more freely outside Adult World and Risky areas.

(I love how Evil Hat's drifts explain why and how their modifications accomplish the drift's goals. It's such a dramatic improvement over Pelgrane's drift support.)

C. Ross

@MikeQ fair

BESW

@C.Ross Bubblegumshoe's fight mechanics spend most of their time at the "scuffling to see who's going to be socially dominant" level, and when stuff gets lethal it's a serious choice. To reflect that, the horror drifts add the skill "Fleeing."

MikeQ

@C.Ross There's also the factor of possibly including psionic player characters, and whether it's feasible without creating a Gandalf situation

BESW

@MikeQ I think Bellairs Falls' magic/obsession system would be perfect for Eleven's abilities in the first season.

Shalvenay

1:05 AM

hey there @BlackSpike

MikeQ

@C.Ross On further thought, you could also replicate the highschool characters' narrative style using CoC, since it's tonally in between the adult and child stories, and does mix desperate combat with panicked fleeing, both of which CoC can do

Black Spike

hi

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Black Spike

grrr ... debugging code

Ben

@BlackSpike have you ever played dark souls?

Black Spike

1:15 AM

@Ben nope

Ben

It's very similar to debugging I reckon hahaha

That feeling you get when you finally get the code to work... Like "Yes! Finally! Haha I knew it!"

Dark Souls is a bit similar in that regard lol

trogdor

Interesting comparison

Black Spike

@Ben heh. Yeah, it's good when ya get there!

Ben

It's a constant push against an obstacle, and you spend effort on it, and it's just doesn't work, doesn't work, doesn't work... Until you get it! Yes!

Black Spike

:)

MikeQ

1:19 AM

Depends on what you're debugging. Working with .NET is more like an endless fetch quest where the instructions are vague and you don't have a map

Black Spike

I think I need to rewrite my entire Add Monsters code ... :(

I just can't follow what's going on!

Shalvenay

at least you folks aren't dealing with.... nasal demons (!)

Ben

@MikeQ like the story of Dark Souls hahaha

Shalvenay

(aka Undefined Behavior in C & C++)

trogdor

@Shalvenay I have those in permanent residence

Shalvenay

1:21 AM

(aka "your computer turned into a chicken")

Black Spike

@MikeQ Android/Java with JSON

Ben

"ring the bell" umm ok. Which bell? Why? "There are two bells"...ok... Still don't know what they do or why I'm ringing them... Or where they are. "One above, one below"... Great. Thanks. I'll mark it on my map

V2Blast

Anita Ward - Ring My Bell

►

Ben

@V2Blast hahaha

Black Spike

I've got some messy code that is supposed to keep adding Monsters to a Room, until an XP cap is breached. But I've tweaked it to try to repeat monsters that are already there, rather than lost of different types.
And nothing adds up ...

trogdor

1:23 AM

Oh god

MikeQ

Nah, Dark Souls is more like debugging Python. If you mess up, you know what you did wrong. And there's a set of well-understood approaches that are understandably better than others.

C. Ross

@BlackSpike Maybe straighten up the code and try again?

Black Spike

@C.Ross when I could add a "few simple lines" of fudge?

MikeQ

@BlackSpike So it's an algorithm to randomly populate the monsters for a given room, such that their total XP value is within some cap?

Black Spike

@MikeQ that's the idea

Hot RPG Questions

1:34 AM

6

Q: Can you cast a blanket Invisibility and let the targets see each other?

Can you use the 3rd level or higher part of Invisibility to make a small group invisible but still able to see each other, like Cloak the Gathering can? Invisibility states: A creature you touch becomes invisible until the spell ends. Anything the target is wearing or carrying is invisible...

MikeQ

Any other constraints? e.g. maximum CR per monster, maximum # of monsters, type of monster, etc

Black Spike

I deal with most of that in a different part of code

For each Dungeon Level, choose a Monster Type (Orcs, Undead, Dragons), and that list is then populated (within CR limits).

then iterate the Rooms, and populate from that List

WHILE (XP<CAP){
if !(room==empty) 50/50 of repeating existing Monster
ELSE add new random monster to room
calculate XP (total of each Monster*(special number-of-monsters number)
}

But I'm adding up the XP wrong somewhere

Or counting the monsters wrong

MikeQ

Yeah that's a weird approach tbh. When you recalculate XP in each iteration, are you adding to the previous XP count?

Miniman

@Ben I mean, above is simple enough - there's only really one way to go up.

But you're given 2 paths that head below, and both of them are wrong.

Black Spike

1:49 AM

@MikeQ it's been built up over several different approaches ... I'm not sure where the errors are ...

mostly seems to be about right, but then suddenly "250 goblins" pop up on level 2

MikeQ

@BlackSpike Yeah, the loop doesn't seem to account for # of monsters, or XP per monster, and it risks adding monsters such that you exceed the XP cap

The 50/50 chance is weird. Instead of adding 1 monster at a time, I'd have it select monster type based on XP remaining, and insert a random number of instances between 1 and floor((XP remaining) / (XP per this monster)).

And if there's still XP remaining, then repeat for a different monster type

Black Spike

I pu tin that chance to stop each Room being a huge list of:
1 goblin
2 wolfs
1 goblin chief
1 hobgobin
1 goblin shaman
2 elite goblin s
etc

try to trim it down to:
3 golbins
4 wolfs

MikeQ

Ok, then the random number is between 1 and min(max # of same monsters per room, floor((XP remaining in this room) / (XP per this monster)))

Black Spike

"How many total monsters in room" acts as a multiplier on "effective xp", so adding multiple at once interferes with that calculation ...

Ben

Dark Sauce (Dark Souls Parody)

►

Black Spike

1:55 AM

(not a linear equation though ... )

Ben

@BlackSpike Did we take a wrong turn, or...?

Black Spike

@Ben ???

Ben

250 goblins at level 2 haha

Black Spike

hehe

I need to rewrite the whole section. Now I'm clearer on what I actually want it to do, and have some ideas on how to do it, I should wipe it clean and start over

MikeQ

@BlackSpike Even so, the constraints on your while-loop are wrong. You'd need to also account for total monsters in the room.

Black Spike

1:58 AM

i only posted a summary of the equation

(it is hidden in many lines of loops and conditionals and bleeuurrggh)

MikeQ

A second set of eyes can often help, both short-term and long-term. I'd advise summoning a friend to look over the code.

Black Spike

@MikeQ would be nice ... I don't have many options there (and also, I KNOW the code is bad! So many parts that need tidying up, or blitzing!)

Ben

@BlackSpike Randon thought, that may have already been brought up... Might be worthwhile doing like, a "Creature:XP Value". So like, "Goblin:5 XP" then you can have modifiers that multiply the xp "Elite:1.5x"

Shalvenay

@Ben um, wouldn't that merit a call to the fire marshal for an overcrowded room for most average dungeon rooms? :P

Black Spike

@Ben I already have the Monster lists set

Ben

2:01 AM

OK :)

@Shalvenay I'm not sure goblins worry about fire codes. I've seen a few Goblin chieftains sitting on burning thrones cos it makes them look powerful.

Shalvenay

@Ben :P

MikeQ

@Ben Of course they do. Every goblin engineering team has a dedicated ~~pyromaniac~~ pyromancer to ensure that fire damage is maximized

Ben

@MikeQ "Is it flammable?" Lets test it and add it to the list

Flammable things:
- Clothes
- Wood
- Jeremy
- Man in Purple Robe

If you see any of these items not on fire, something is wrong

Change of topic, has anyone played Zombicide?

trogdor

Nope

Miniman

@Ben Yep, and Black Plague.

Ben

2:16 AM

I'm thinking that my CoD Zombies game might work well with that

Miniman

@Ben You'd need to rework the door-opening mechanic, I think.

(That said, it's a mechanic that could use some reworking anyway.)

Ben

Yeah, maybe one or two things need their own mechanics, but for the most part, I think it's a pretty good match

Miniman

I will say, if you haven't tried Black Plague, the devs took the opportunity to revise some of the rules, and my group found it to be a noticeable improvement.

Ben

I'll suggest it to my friend that collects boardgames :)

Black Spike

ok, "number of monsters" is not adding up right

Hot RPG Questions

2:34 AM

12

Q: Would a non-attacking Barbarian's rage end the same turn he started it?

QUESTION: If a Barbarian enters a Rage on their first turn, and does not attack, and furthermore has taken no damage yet in this fight, does the rage cease at the end of that same turn? Reference: A player at our game wanted a multiclassed Moon Druid/Barbarian to combine Wild Shape and Rage. T...

dnd-5e barbarian rage

william porter

2:45 AM

Hmm

0

Q: What challenges arise from playing a Chaotic Evil character in a heroic party?

I have seen several questions similar to this one closed for being too broad, but it certainly seems like an often-enough asked question that I will attempt to narrow the focus down such that it is both answerable and useful. As an online GM in the past, I have had multiple players apply for m...

pathfinder dungeons-and-dragons alignment

Am I wrong in thinking that despite asking for experience, it's inherently an opinion based question?

It's a good question, I'm just unsure if it's a good fit for RPG.SE

BESW

Experience-based answers are totally within the Stack paradigm; the only problem is if the asker is unable or unwilling to provide enough context for voters to be reasonable confident if an answerer's experience is applicable to the asker's situation.

Miniman

I voted to close as opinion based because I am near-certain that it's going to attract a bunch of really crappy, opinion-based answers. Which isn't to say that the question is inherently opinion-based.

Ben

@Miniman Is it right to do that? It might be better to instead protect the question, if that were to happen?

"right" is a bit of a strong word. It's not right or wrong, just maybe not the best option

william porter

My issue with using experience as answers for this question, is the experience used for the answer is almost certainly going to be founded in opinion.

Miniman

From the close vote dialogue:

> Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions,

nitsua60

2:58 AM

To my thinking, there's a biiiiig fuzzy area in there. If a question seems good but gets a lot of crap answers, perhaps it's just unfortunate and protection would be the "right" thing to do. Or perhaps there's something in the question that actually is weak/poor and attracting answers that are obviously bad, but I'm not smart enough to put my finger on what exactly in the question is causing the problem.

Ben

Yeah fair

The way I see, the bolded section is fine. That is perfectly answerable.

The issue starts when the question also clarifies what "Chaotic Evil" means

MikeQ

I VTC'd because it's currently a poll question, and unclear what problem they're trying to address. If their question is "how do I play a CE character and also be okay with my group" then it's highly dependent on their particular group, and thus still opinion.

BESW

@nitsua60 yeah, I think when in doubt throw it to the community to answer and watch what happens.

(I'm not gonna weigh in on this particular question, just on general theory, because it's Pathfinder and I should be hands-off on that.)

william porter

The question itself feels far more suited to a Forum thread, than SE to me.

KorvinStarmast

I provided the asker a link to our meta on what makes a decent alignment question. We'll see if that was helpful, or not helpful. Not sure we aren't seeing an X-Y here, and it's late for me so good night to you all. Be well.

Ben

3:06 AM

@williamporter As it is currently, I'd agree. It could be edited to be a bit more definite though

william porter

Good to know others agree, it's also late for me, g'night y'all.

BESW

ttfn

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 If nothing else, it suffers from not specifying a system. Even among systems in which Chaotic Evil is a thing, it's generally not defined the same way.

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon Oh, I hadn't even looked at the instigating question. I was just commenting generally on the matter of "do bad answers make a question bad?"

BESW

> I bring you fire. Successful actions related to creating or using fire get an extra +2 shifts of effectiveness if you're in the scene.

@JoelHarmon Doesn't it say pathfinder?

trogdor

3:13 AM

Fire, to wear a silly costume, fire to dance and be weird

Joel Harmon

@BESW Yeah, right next to dungeons-and-dragons

BESW

@JoelHarmon I get your point, but I also see no lie in that tagging choice. [grin]

trogdor

@BESW oh snap

BESW

@trogdor I need a "you got that reference" meme, too.

trogdor

XD

Joel Harmon

3:15 AM

@BESW Maybe we should just edit that into system-agnostic and call it a day, eh?

Oddly, I never thought I'd feel like I should be fleeing this chat room...

trogdor

@BESW I did indeed get that reference

BESW

@JoelHarmon I know a lot of people who use D&D and PF material interchangeably in the same campaign.

Joel Harmon

@BESW Sure, and that even works pretty smoothly for 3.5e and somewhat less so for 5e

Shalvenay

@BESW I've been known to mix PF material into 3.5e myself

(wouldn't do it for 5e tho)

I will say that the question under consideration probably should be narrowed to be edition-specific though

because there are two distinctly different cases where this can crop up: 1) is the player wants their character to be CE while 2) is that the character is forced into that alignment box by the mechanics (race/class/alignment interlocking is a problem that plagued D&D up until about 4e or so?)

in the former case, addressing the players desires square-on is the correct move, while for the latter, it requires addressing the DM side as well

Joel Harmon

@Shalvenay I think you're missing a glaring case 3) the other players think the controlling player is playing a non-CE character as a CE one.

Shalvenay

3:21 AM

@JoelHarmon oh, I didn't think of that

I was thinking from the perspective of this coming up from fresh character creation, not mid-campaign with established characters

Joel Harmon

And that definitely gets back to "what is an alignment, and CE specifically?" as it varies within one group.

@Shalvenay I'd say that can come up within the opening scene of a game.

The Oracle

0

Q: Is this question too opinion based or is it experience based?

I recently asked this question which has been voted to be closed 4 times as of this writing for being primarily opinion based. However, the question was written specifically to ask for experience-based answers. After reviewing this meta post, it does appear to follow all guidelines for alignment...

discussion

BESW

4:04 AM

"WHAT HAPPEN," an RPG Powered by Apocalype. #ifyouusethewordthethegameinstantlyends

Ben

@JoelHarmon That was the point I made. Interpreting what "CE" means is just way too opinion based

BESW

A guide to setting up captioning for the entire group when streaming #TTRPG, or any multiple person broadcast, by TornPixie.

Ben

99% of IT issues can be resolved by asking the IT guy to watch you reproduce the error

user15026

4:25 AM

@Ben That's it that's my job in a nutshell some days

user15026

@BESW I like this.

linksassin

4:42 AM

@Ben Honestly people should be reproducing their errors before they ever get IT involved. But you are correct that that is most of what support deals with.

Ben

@linksassin I work in a small office, so I hear everyone complaining that "this thing isn't working. I've done it 4 times and I keep getting the same error." So I come and watch, not even say anything, just watch, and it works.

One guy actually just asked me to "come here for a sec". When I did, they were working on something, then when they finished, they just said "Ok tanks, that was all".

trogdor

@Ben lol,.. I do very little of that at work but it happens all the time at home

linksassin

@Ben Usually people are cutting a corner or missing a step without even realising it. The second the have to explain it they recognise it or remember it without knowing they skipped it the first time.

Same principle as Rubber Duck debugging.

Ben

@linksassin Usually, yeah. Sometimes I get issues where I have to remind them of a step, or they go "oh I missed this step, nvm". But yeah, sometimes either they don't notice they skipped something, or it is just my presence that makes it work. Lol

V2Blast

2d6

Dice Service

4:51 AM

•

V2Blast

Bad happen :(

Ben

@V2Blast [Sad trumpet]

2d6

•

More bad happen.

4:53 AM

2d6

Dice Service

•

V2Blast

bad happen again :(

these odds aren't great

2d6

•

Game's rigged

4:54 AM

@V2Blast This is beginning to feel a little depressing.

2d6

Dice Service

•

linksassin

Well so-so is an improvement.

Ben

Well, I'm starting to think that this games is more based in reality. Lol

BESW

@linksassin I mean... that's PbtA for you, in a nutshell.

linksassin

2d6

Dice Service

4:59 AM

•

linksassin

@BESW I think the evidence has been pretty conclusive that only bad is going to come of playing that. (jks)

BESW

> Visions of the Present. You can see events taking place anywhere in the world, but only at the present moment. Doing this takes at least five minutes and some special materials (you may have to improvise if you're in an unfamiliar area), and lets you create an aspect with two free invokes as if you had succeeded with style on creating an advantage with Lore, but you can be compelled to fail to explain your visions effectively to others.

Hot RPG Questions

5:36 AM

5

Q: Is it unbalanced to allow a monk with the Tavern Brawler feat to use improvised weapons as monk weapons?

A friend of mine wants to play a variant human monk with the Tavern Brawler feat. He asked me if he could use improvised Weapons as monk weapons. I personally haven't played a monk, or a character with the Tavern Brawler feat. As such, I'm having trouble judging whether this is unbalanced or tot...

dnd-5e feats house-rules monk improvised-weaponry

BESW

5:52 AM

> Zombie wrangler. You get +2 when creating advantages or overcoming obstacles involving zombies, provided you're on a horse or using a lasso.

trogdor

XD

Very amused is I

MikeQ

> Zombie Wrangler: You get +2 when creating advantages or overcoming obstacles involving zombies, provided you're wearing denim jeans

Ben

6:21 AM

OH

MY

GIDDY

AUNT

youtube.com/channel/UCFMtdiQILuTZr22sKUeAOOA

@MikeQ if you haven't seen this already... strap in

Everyone else... this is 40K

BESW

I will only accept one giddy aunt, no substitutes.

BESW

7:32 AM

> Nosebleed Psionic. You have telekinesis, which allows you to control objects at a distance as if you were touching them. If you would normally roll to take an action but are using telekinesis, you can instead automatically succeed on the action by taking stress equal to one plus the target difficulty. You may even choose to succeed with style by taking three extra stress.

trogdor

I wish it worked that way

nosebleeds do not give superpowers

I would have found out by now XD

Ben

8:10 AM

ST3 was great :D

BESW

I'm gonna finish it tonight or tomorrow.

Their Terminator homage is a bit on the nose.

trogdor

8:28 AM

I haven't had a chance to watch it yet

Ben

@BESW haha yeah. He even looks like Arnie

Taller, and less muscular, but that's fair :P

BESW

His theme music is a Terminator riff.

trogdor

lol

BESW

On the other hand, I think "Did you even clean that thing!?" is the best phrase I've ever heard screamed in terror in a film or TV show.

Ben

Hahaha, it's 80s themed, what you gonna do?

BESW

8:38 AM

Yeah, but there's a difference between inspiration and occasional reference, and outright quoting.

Ben

To be fair, they never used any Terminator lines. Only an "Arnie" reference.

Not saying they didn't push it though lol

BESW

When I say "quoting" I don't mean dialog. It's a more broad term in media. You can quote music, visuals, framing.

Erik

Hello gals & guys, since my question got closed and I was referred here, well, here I am... looking for strategy tips on ranged combat, combination of expedite spells and compound bow (in rolemaster).

BESW

[wave] Hi!

Ben

@BESW yeah haha I know. He is, in all but name, The Terminator

BESW

8:47 AM

I'm not sure if anybody who frequents chat is very familiar with Rolemaster, but I hope somebody can help you!

Erik

Yeah, I know. Still, even general tips would be appreciated.

BESW

9:02 AM

So, for peoples' reference, this is the question:

3

Q: Ranged combat - warrior mage

Background: We're a group of four players new to Pen & Paper with a seasoned game master. Up to now we haven't had any active contact with magic skills during combats. Due to a mixture of bad tactical decisions on our end and dice rolls in favour of NPCs, another player and I died twice in four s...

combat ranged-attack tactics rolemaster

Erik

thumbs up

BESW

Heh, I haven't played any game where the mechanics support that kind of character building in a very long time.

Erik

9:20 AM

tbh, I haven't got any comparison, and the character building process is kind of cumbersome, but you can decide rather freely and really create your own, inidvidual character, so I quite like the ruleset.

V2Blast

9:51 AM

My first exposure to Rolemaster was when I looked stuff up while I was updating/expanding the tag wiki for it :P

BESW

@Erik I play a lot of games where character design is phrasal/narrative; your stats are short pithy phrases like "Cocky kid" or "Dedicated to the Rebellion" and your skills are broad things like "Pilot" or "Adult."

There's not a lot of call for figuring out exactly which pre-made mechanics fit your character concept, because the mechanics are really broad until you define them with a couple words that narrow them down to what your character's about.

KorvinStarmast

12:18 PM

@Erik Been since the 80's that I played any Rolemaster / ICE stuff. Sorry, I'm no good to you.

@BESW I think Numenera does something like that, but I don't live in a place where I can get in on a game.

kviiri

12:33 PM

How's it going everyone?

Derpy

12:53 PM

@kviiri Pass. Do you have another question? -_-'

kviiri

@Derpy What is the largest lake by area in Europe?

Derpy

@kviiri Do mud lakes count?

kviiri

@Derpy I don't think so but I'm also intrigued to hear what you might have in mind

Erik

@kvii

Derpy

@kviiri then the answer is "the code I have to write"

Erik

12:56 PM

@kviiri do artificial lakes count?

kviiri

@Erik If it's a good one!

(I mean, I'd be interested to hear about large artificial lakes too)

Derpy

> No TLC and no architecture makes Derpy a dull pony
No TLC and no architecture makes Derpy a dull pony
No TLC and no architecture makes Derpy a dull pony
No TLC and no architecture makes Derpy a dull pony
No TLC and no architecture makes Derpy a dull pony
No TLC and no architecture makes Derpy a dull pony
No ŢLC̵ and n̵ơ ar͞çh̨It͡e̡c͡tUre͏ ҉m͝@kes͡ ̨D҉3r͢py͘ ̨á ͠dull҉ ̡p0n͞y̕

Ben

@derpy We're slipping into dangerous territory here. Haha

Sidenote: @Miniman @linksassin up the blues :P

kviiri

@Erik I don't recall seeing you here before, by the way --- welcome!

I'm ordering window cleaners! woo

I have exactly 64 surfaces of glass to clean if my math serves me.

Yay powers of two.

I could make that seventy, if I included the sauna door and shower barriers... hmm.

G. Moylan

what about glass cups?

kviiri

1:09 PM

@G.Moylan "Technically that's one surface" :)

G. Moylan

what about the inside?

I guess small enough to still be one surface either way

kviiri

@G.Moylan There is no well-defined separation between the outside and the inside

Derpy

@Ben let's just say that I am not happy with how this project is managed right now. And the same management errors keep repeating again and again, over and over.

kviiri

(inb4 "then define it!")

@G.Moylan I'll tell you the story of our glass table when I'm done with the order

Derpy

Didn't plan to bore you out with that, just random venting frustration out

kviiri

1:11 PM

aka. "why kviiri never wants to bring any glass furniture in his home again"

GcL

@Derpy When I hear stories like that, I wonder if the costs of failure are not felt by those that made the decisions that led to those failures. Is that the case for your situation?

@kviiri You could get that glass made by gorillas. I heard they trade it for Apples.

Erik

Never buy glass furniture, it's tiresome to keep clean

G. Moylan

@GcL sometimes it's a chain of failures, various people in the chain realize it, but at that point there's nothing to be done to fix it

kviiri

@Erik Yea I didn't exactly buy the last one either :) it was from my grandparent's old house

...and got there from my parents' old house.

Ben

@Derpy I am feeling this. Hard.

G. Moylan

1:13 PM

@kviiri a loophole!

Erik

@kviiri you could always use a tablecloth?

GcL

@Erik a glass tablecloth? like fiber glass? wouldn't that be itchy?

kviiri

@Erik Alas, the table decided to abruptly increase its surface area by about an order of magnitude.

Erik

@kviiri so could the tablecloth, if you knew how to sew =P

kviiri

Anyway, the table had survived several Summers on our front yard (we weren't exactly rowdy kids anymore by the time we got it so the risk of it breaking was admittedly smallish). Then it survived a car trip to my grandparents in a small countryside village where it sat on the back yard.

Derpy

1:16 PM

@GcL the problem is that by personal experience the people who will "absorb" the cost aren't the same that made the error. So if something went wrong either because the architect didn't actually architecture anything or because knowledge of topics was just made up from smoke&mirrors, the one who will get the "fun" to fix the delay are the last wheel of the train - the devs

kviiri

Then it came back for me. It was a fairly large table, we planned to have it on the balcony. It had to be transported with the glass sheet separate from the frame because of its size and my parents were, in their own words, "a bit surprised the sheet made it intact all the way to Helsinki" because the ride had been a tad bumpy. So we carry it reaaaally carefully to the balcony and I reaaaally carefully position it to wait for installation

GcL

@Derpy Sorry to hear that. That's a tough place to be.

kviiri

and then suddenly, as I'm letting go, the table turns into a diced glass stew in my hands with a loud noise and I thank heavens for my choice to wear brown pants that day.

David Coffron

Does anyone who currently has access to Acquisitions Incorporated care to elaborate on what it says for a Majordomo in your franchise? It would maybe be helpful in an answer to this question.

kviiri

In retrospect, I noticed my mistake: our balcony floor is coarse concrete so uh. There probably was some sharp, hard wedge that the entire glass sheet's weight rested on. I just didn't think of it in advance because there were two people observing me laying the sheet to rest: my mother and my SO. With them I expect to hear of it whenever I'm doing anything wrong in the slightest :)

Derpy

1:21 PM

@GcL basically this, but I don't get the benefits of "a shortage of abbots" either.

Erik

@kviiri Well... damn. Still, if you had it wrapped in a table cloth, you wouldn't have made such a mess.

kviiri

My SO in particular is a were-engineer and she usually sees mistakes like this coming.

G. Moylan

@kviiri they turn into an engineer when the moon is full?

kviiri

@G.Moylan Yes, but she's also an astronomer so she knows the moon is always full from some angle of observation.

Derpy

Missing Link

►

totally not a Legend of Zelda reference. Totally not related to games with falling moons or anything

David Coffron

1:47 PM

I actually find it kind of exciting to find overpowered combinations in games where multiple third-party or homebrew rulesets are being used.

(not to play them, I usually build my character based on what looks fun, but just to notice the combinations)

NautArch

@DavidCoffron like what?

David Coffron

@NautArch In a game I will be joining next week, they permit a handful of DMsGuild content, one of which includes a cleric domain that lets you undo one activity at the cost of exhaustion. And I also found a subrace of halfling who can recover from all exhaustion (rather than just one) at a long rest, meaning one could rewind time much more frequently than is probably intended

Also, one of the permitted 3rd party has something called hemomancy that includes spells that cost HP in addition to spell slots, which can definitely be manipulated with powerful healing and damage reduction

Carcer

that problem player question is a doozy huh

David Coffron

@Carcer I'm not even sure what I would do with a player like that.

NautArch

@Carcer Yeah. I haven't had a player like this, so I can't answer. But this seems problematic.

David Coffron

1:58 PM

My immediate idea is to have their spellbook stolen (then they can only have the spells they had prepared that morning)

NautArch

I'd honestly say either play by the rules or don't play (as an end point after I've tried to work with them.)

Carcer

I hate to make assumptions but I'm not going to be surprised if it turns out these guys are pretty young and there are some stereotypical interpersonal dynamics going on there, with one female player being extremely disruptive yet the group would be upset about excluding her

David Coffron

@DavidCoffron but I would never do that actually, it is just my gut visceral desire

NautArch

@DavidCoffron stop talking to yourself :P

Carcer

it also wouldn't help, since it's established that she knows full well she's not allowed to cast spells she hasn't prepared by the rules but wants to anyway and will simply argue with the DM until they let her do it.

anyway, meeting! Argh.

NautArch

1:59 PM

I'm guessing they'd cheat with any resource management, so it's not just a caster/spells prepared issue.

But I would say that if they want to fix the issue, then the DM needs a copy of the character sheet and double checks and marks off resources to keep them honest.

But they've got to hold the line and not let them get away with it.

David Coffron

@NautArch Or, if the group really doesn't mind (and aren't just tolerating out of fear of losing the player), play heavily rules-light and RACS/RAF a bit. I don't like playing that way, but I've heard of groups that do

goodguy5

I feel like I remember (and may have answered) a question about players that argue with the dm over every little thing...

38

Q: A player is constantly pestering me about rules, what do I do as a DM?

Okay I admit I'm new to D&D. I've been playing for 2 years now and only been playing 5e. I don't learn by reading the entire manual in one sitting, I have learnt everything from actually playing the game through trial and error and observing others. And I like to think it has worked, but I get th...

dnd-5e gm-techniques problem-players group-dynamics social-contract

NautArch

@DavidCoffron True. You could let everyone 'cheat', but also step up the encounters to accommodate it.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch I can see how it would be extremely wearing on a DM to constantly have to fight though and I know some DMs who just wouldn't have the stomach for it.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Unfortunately, I'd probably start getting petty and target the character more.

David Coffron

2:08 PM

@NautArch I have played at rules-light tables (just didn't enjoy them as much) and the GM doesn't actually keep track of monster hit points and stuff. They don't "step up" the encounters, they just let them run until it seems like a good stopping point and let the narration drive the combat almost entirely.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron I honestly would be very confused at a table like that. Not knowing where things are in combat would mess me with me :)

Rubiksmoose

@BESW Ok because it is bugging the heck out of me, what is "the word" referenced in that hashtag?

@NautArch Yeah I have no idea how I would handle it.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Oh, you want to cheat? Sure. I'm going to knock your character out. Reroll.

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron Man, if I was playing at a table like that I'd honestly be asking if we could play another system that is built to be played that way and actually has fun stuff that interacts with it.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I think there is a good chance that this player likes gaming the system. In a system like that, they wouldn't feel 'special'.

David Coffron

2:16 PM

@Rubiksmoose When I played at that table (with some good friends of mine), I had never been exposed to other systems. In hindsight definitely was the way to go

NautArch

because everyone is special

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah I honestly have a hard time getting a read on what this player's deal is specifically. I wouldn't think changing systems is a good option here though because the rest of the people seem to be enjoying D&D the "right" way.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I get not wanting to be the rules manager, but you are the DM. It's part of the job, but harder because the other players don't seem to be as annoyed.

LIke the guy at our table who still hasn't figured out the rules after over a year of playing. We're all annoyed.

goodguy5

I don't understand those people

G. Moylan

@NautArch I mean, as the DM I run the game, not the character. I expect my players to know how their class works and to follow those rules on their own. if they have questions, then by all means ask. Otherwise I'm busy with running stuff

goodguy5

2:25 PM

Are you REALLY just coming to this to hang out? Because you can find other, less rules heavy ways to hang out with people/us

NautArch

@G.Moylan Yeah, but if I"ve got a player who is having issues with the rules, I tend to dive more deeply intot heir character sheet to help them specifically. The character is part of the game I'm running.

G. Moylan

I also just asked if this was the only female player. I think it was @DavidCoffron that mentioned that could be the case and the other players could be willing to put up with whatever because "bewbs"

goodguy5

but they're all grown-butt adults

G. Moylan

@NautArch yeah if they have issues I'll help. It's just not my style to "police" them as we play

@goodguy5 that doesn't change anything

goodguy5

disagree

G. Moylan

2:27 PM

I've met plenty of "adults" that still behave that way

goodguy5

I must just avoid those people.

@G.Moylan And sure, I've met enough "adults" that behave that way, but they're usually not the same adults interested in D&D

G. Moylan

I work with a guy right now who is just a walking case of casual sexual harassment. Whenever we go to lunch he always remarks on some waitress's body

kviiri

@G.Moylan Ugh. Sounds nasty.

MikeQ

@G.Moylan Anecdotal, but technically possible. If the player is used to special treatment (from the particular group) then that could be a complicating factor.

G. Moylan

Player could also just be a straight-up narcissist

but that's getting out of our territory

NautArch

2:29 PM

@G.Moylan I kind of see myself as hte police, though. I do generally trust the players to know their actions, but I also know enough about most of them to make sure it's right.

MikeQ

@G.Moylan Speculating about the player's motives isn't helpful. Conversely, since this is 90% a player problem and less so game mechanics problem, having the DM clarify those motives is part of the solution.

kviiri

@MikeQ aye

David Coffron

@G.Moylan I live in a town where that is 60% of the population....

(probably not actually that high, but it sure feels like it)

G. Moylan

@NautArch fair. I do that too I guess I just don't consider myself the "police." More of a security guard

@DavidCoffron yeah he also makes a lot of anti-gay jokes. He's not the most open-minded fellow

@MikeQ that's my point, but I suppose I went about it weird. I meant to suggest that there could be a lot going on but it isn't our territory to either 1) diagnose somebody; or 2) speculate

David Coffron

In any case, I think we can all agree that these are cool (even if they may not be helpful for this particular player).

G. Moylan

2:36 PM

OP put an update clause in the question

what do we do with that? Have them put it in an answer? a comment?

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron 100%

MOOOOSE

You moved my comment

@G.Moylan hrm.... good question

I'm inclined to say a comment?

idk

MikeQ

@G.Moylan Edits (and updates to the asker's situation) can go in the question.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Most definitely! In terms of special management, i'm pretty happy with dndbeyond.

goodguy5

also, calling it. The girl rolls up a Ranger

"I cast stone skin again"

G. Moylan

@goodguy5 OP did say archer

NautArch

2:40 PM

I hate how I can't print out a good/useful hard copy, but i've gotten used to my digital character sheet.

G. Moylan

@NautArch the print feature on DDB is close to being smart except that it cuts off so much text you have to go in and edit everything anyway

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Which comment would that be good sir?

G. Moylan

@MikeQ yeah but it's an update that says "hey guys don't worry about it." I thought Stack policy was to not do that

NautArch

@G.Moylan i've found there are a lot of mechical things I like to know that the print didnt include.

goodguy5

in Discussion on question by Raj: As the dungeon master, how do I handle a player that insists on a specific class when I already know that choice will cause issues?, 27 mins ago, by goodguy5

Loosely Related, insofar as "dealing with players bothering you": rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/150315/… . If nothing else, a good read for the querent.

NautArch

2:42 PM

but i haven't tried in awhile.

goodguy5

thank you

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 I don't know what you're talking about, it is clearly still there ;)

MikeQ

@G.Moylan IIRC The policy is more about not removing/replacing essential parts of the original question

Appending with a "Update: situation resolved" doesn't change that the post is still in SE's Q&A format

G. Moylan

@MikeQ true, I just thought I had seen a guide that mentioned that as a no-no. Perhaps I'm misremembering

MikeQ

Perhaps we're all misremembering because time is an illusion

and thus isn't real unless a high-level illusionist makes it real

David Coffron

2:46 PM

@MikeQ Or are the supposed fact that time is an illusion the illusion l.l

MikeQ

@DavidCoffron I'll check by making a wisdom save to disbelieve

d20

Dice Service

10

David Coffron

You failed. Save DC is 16

Xirema

TimeCube.html

G. Moylan

time is real, it's our measure of it that is the illusion. Time is irrefutable and marches ever forward. We've just arbitrarily decided that when those lines get to that place on that dial thing, it's time to eat.

Rubiksmoose

2:52 PM

@G.Moylan Eating time is the best arbitrary time.

Derpy

@Rubiksmoose I am matter... I am antimatter... I can see your past... I can see your future... I eat time... And I will consume you!

NautArch

thinking about my new spells for 4th level (still debating between Resilient CON/Fade Away), but thining I might continue to go utility. FInd Familiar (if I can get a small brazier when we go into town) and Tenser's. We're mostly a party of small creatures, but we've got two medium who are pretty big/heavy. Might need tenser's to transport one if they go down and we're out of spell slots to heal.

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