TRPG General Chat

The Oracle

15:00

0

Recently, the default answer display order was changed from "highest vote first" to "latest edit first". There's apparently a way to change that for personal use, but not one I'd been aware of before today. Given how long I've been around, I must assume that there are a fair number of users who...

David Coffron

@NautArch Devil's advocate: That means that when you roll low it dies sooner filtering towards higher rolls (where it dies less)

So the average throughout the life of the character is higher than you'd expect

(I'd personally recommend taking the average HP of 19)

Mage in the Barrel

FYI I get 5 hp per class level on it or the monsters hp whichever is higher so at level 6 the hp will be a moot point

NautArch

@DavidCoffron except it dying sooner also impacts by it not necessarily being available when you need it.

@MageintheBarrel Yup, but it's a long way to level 6 :)

Mage in the Barrel

the dm plans to use the milestone system for xp

NautArch

:50809522 Cool. I'm a fan of that, but it's also a bit frustrating as you don't necessarily know when it's coming :)

Mage in the Barrel

15:05

so how long it takes will depend on them

btw this is the first time dming but they have played a number of games before

David Coffron

@NautArch I love Milestone leveling, but I think it is best if you let the players know what the milestone will be (so they do have an idea of how to get to the next level). I'll say something like, "you've accepted the mission to rescue the princess from the evil archmage in his swamp. Upon completion of this mission, you will have earned enough experience in your respective crafts to proceed to level 13"

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Look at you with logical and helpful ideas!

David Coffron

@NautArch It doesn't work as well with a more sandbox game though (which one of my games is)

Carcer

on the other hand players love being surprised with nice things and telling them "hey, you've gained a level" can put them in a real good mood

Yuuki

Yeah, my one gripe with milestone leveling has been that in my experience, the DM doesn't really have a plan for it other than "I feel like you've leveled" so it feels like no progress is being made.

GcL

15:10

@DavidCoffron Transparency and clear expectations?!??! What?! Whaaaaaat!!! It's like you want the players to enjoy the game! /S

NautArch

@DavidCoffron True, and my games are more sandbox-y. I've got a major storyline (that they haven't yet been made aware of), but minor storylines/character storylines that develop as they explore and make decisions.

David Coffron

@NautArch For that kind of game, I mostly let the players decide. After completing a major plot, I ask everyone if they think they have completed enough story to proceed to the next level (and if they don't they usually invent their own milestone a la: "not just yet, I think we've earned it once we've defeated the rest of the cult")

GcL

@DavidCoffron I assign plot points XP values, since I can rarely guess how my players will resolve them.

Carcer

I think you kind of need to judge your group and evaluate whether they need levelling to be a definite objective they can work towards (so and tell them how to get there) or not

GcL

Also, I say "ding" when something like that gets resolved.

David Coffron

15:11

@Carcer I can see that, one of my current groups is very into mechanical character advancement while the others are more interested in the story and character development

JohnP

@Someone_Evil The answer is yes, with a minimum caster level maintained of 5th at all times.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron In a way, I'm sort of doing a hybrid. My XP assignations aren't exactly the XP generated from monsters killed during the session. I give out extra XP for non-combat encounters and some DM choice on final XP values (looking ahead to when their next level point is and where I think they are.)

David Coffron

@NautArch That's another approach I think can be very effective. Just give XP for other things than just combat victories

That way they still get an idea of progress, but are rewarded for noncombat victories

Someone_Evil

@JohnP I believe you seeing as I don't really understand the question (didn't try very hard though) :)

goodguy5

@MageintheBarrel wait a second. how do you only have 6 hp if you have a +2 con modifier?

Mage in the Barrel

15:16

becuase i have a 4 hitdice?

goodguy5

oh no....

Your DM is cruel.

Mage in the Barrel

i didn't roll tho

David Coffron

Oh a 1d4 hit die?

That's really small

Mage in the Barrel

yeah

william porter

For my "Milestone Leveling" it's really a simplified XP system, the party needs x points to go up a level, they get y points for accomplishing things (Typically 1, maybe more depending), x is level + 1

NautArch

15:17

@DavidCoffron I also make combat pretty hard, and like to to throw some extra XP out :)

Mage in the Barrel

the dm said well get the max hp from hitdice until level 6

NautArch

@DavidCoffron It's part of the Eidolist's "balance"

David Coffron

That means you could have lss than 20 HP at level 5 (without good Constitution)

Mage in the Barrel

then well roll our hp

goodguy5

@MageintheBarrel that's... something, I guess

NautArch

15:18

@MageintheBarrel Wow, that's awfully nice. That minimizes the d4.

Mage in the Barrel

yeah

goodguy5

@NautArch *maximizes :P

NautArch

@DavidCoffron The homebrew class is almost definitely not balanced.

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel Hmm... I'm not sure that fixes the problem with the eidolist (if the creator thought it would). Overpowered strengths and debiliitating weaknesses don't usually balance out

NautArch

@goodguy5 both!

David Coffron

15:19

@NautArch neither!

(are we just being contrary?)

Mage in the Barrel

i think he meant it minimazes the problem

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron Even if it did, 5e specifically tries to avoid it.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Who us? Never!

David Coffron

@goodguy5 I think I have an answer somewhere that elaborates on why weaknesses aren't really good balancing techniques in 5e. rummages

Mage in the Barrel

well I literrally picked it cause it looked cool

NautArch

15:21

@MageintheBarrel We're being silly, but that was my intent. That I think the d4 hit die was to balance the power of the class, and by giving you max for first 5 levels, that makes your class even more powerful.

Mage in the Barrel

generrally my philosophy is I'll play it if it looks cool and if it's op I'll handicap myself in some way

David Coffron

(can't find it)

@MageintheBarrel Don't get us wrong. If your table is fine with it, and you are having a good time, have at. I see no problem with unbalance as long as everyone is on board. (genuine, no sarcasm)

goodguy5

At level 6, a CR 6 Chasme can oneshot your Eidolist.

Mage in the Barrel

everyone is cool with it

David Coffron

@goodguy5 Well than it can also one shot a wizard with less Constitution

@MageintheBarrel Then more power to you, that's the most important part

Mage in the Barrel

15:23

i agreed if it got ridiculous we'd balance it later

but for now their cool with it

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron fair, I suppose.

Mage in the Barrel

we're literally called "improvisation game?".

we'll figure it out as we go along

David Coffron

I wonder how you would actually balance a d4 hit die class

JohnP

@williamporter - I answered the same way you did originally on that PF retraining, btw.

David Coffron

(probably not easily, but then again balancing any new class is extremely challenging)

NautArch

15:24

@DavidCoffron They did it by giving a very powerful companion

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron Have its primary abilities scale to CON?

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Also note that you don't really control the Avatar. You can give it a command, and it will do it 'as best as it can' and will do nothing if you don't command it. And your command options are only "attack, defend, move".

william porter

@JohnP I mean, I disagree with your answer, because you only need a minimum of 3 wizard levels to start taking evangelist.

David Coffron

@williamporter there's an evangelist class???

Mage in the Barrel

our dm said we'll put it at smart dog level and I can spend a partial rest training it to be able to do more complex stuff

william porter

15:27

And you can use prestige classes to qualify for each other, you just need to meet the requirement for one of them without using the other class.

@DavidCoffron Pathfinder

David Coffron

Oh it's a prestige class. That makes a bit more sense (as it isn't required to be a core character aspect)

Mage in the Barrel

but at first it'll only understand basic commands

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Ok, but now you're further increasing it's capabilities. It's up to your DM, but the class description is clear in those command choices.

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel How long is a partial rest?

Mage in the Barrel

idk?

GcL

15:28

What is a partial rest? short rest?

Mage in the Barrel

i think they meant part of a long rest

or maybe a short rest

David Coffron

Just wondering. If it is downtime, that could be meaningful as that takes significant investment to improve your avatar. If it is a smaller period, that may turn it into a much more powerful class feature

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel I'm just saying that the class is already OP, reather than continuing to homebrew it yourself with more power, I'd try and stay within it's guidelines and adjust after you've had enough experience to determine what to do.

Mage in the Barrel

also if it dies I have to spend an hour on a ritual

JohnP

@williamporter But you need 5 fir the feats for Mage.

Mage in the Barrel

15:30

I actually missed the part about attack defend move

i'll bring it up to my dm later

william porter

@JohnP You need 5 effective levels, evangelist will stack with wizard to be able to take MoTE

Mage in the Barrel

and most of my table members say they don't think it's op

JohnP

@williamporter hmm....

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Given that your DM is new to DMing, and that your using a homebrew class that they don't understand, it's really up to you get a strong handle on what it does and how it works. They're not going to be able to watch you and say "hey, that's not right!"

JohnP

That would work, actually. Do you mind if I edit that into my answer with attribution?

william porter

15:31

Go ahead

The best way to build the character I noted in a comment on his question

Wizard 9/Mage of the Third Eye 1/ Evangelist 10

You can even grab prestigious caster to have full CL

Yuuki

@NautArch Yeah, I would always recommend avoiding homebrew in a group of newbies.

JohnP

@williamporter Looks like he accepted "no" as an answer anyway. :)

william porter

Yup /shrug

NautArch

@Yuuki It's already started, so at this point it's more about mitigating problems and staying ahead of them.

Which is fine!

Yuuki

The important thing is to not treat this as a settled matter.

Just because the group is okay with the power level of the homebrew class right now doesn't mean that there might not be legitimate problems later.

NautArch

15:40

@Yuuki They seem to be on target with that, which is good.

Yuuki

So definitely don't say "well, you guys were okay with that X weeks ago".

Mage in the Barrel

@Yuuki we agreed on that when I brought up this class

NautArch

But my point was that learning the game is hard. Normally, the DM is there to help make sure you're doing things right - but with a homebrew they don't have knowledge or the reference. The player really needs to be on point to make sure they're following it.

David Coffron

@Yuuki Honestly that should be the approach with any issue. Even with official products (like Volo's Guide to Monsters or flying races), you should be open that people will change their mind on what they want in the game (and hopefully those people will be kind enough to try to work with you rather than just banning that character mid-campaign)

Mage in the Barrel

if it get's to op or causes other problems we'll make changes which was the agreement and i'm fully on board to the point where if I think there are problems with it I'll suggest changes

I'm currently working on backup characters just in case I die

cause it's quite possible with only 6 hp

a brown bear is a 92.6% chance of 1hko on me

along with most cr 1 monsters

David Coffron

15:45

@MageintheBarrel As an alternative you could try to hedge against that possiblity. Perhaps wear some heavy armor (even if you aren't proficient) until you get a bit more HP

NautArch

@DavidCoffron The Eidolite is also a caster, so wearing heavy would prevent casting.

Yuuki

Prepare Tiny Hut in all of your slots and cast it before combat.

Mage in the Barrel

i bought studden leather since I'm profienct in light

David Coffron

@NautArch Right. But it could still be better than risking dying.

Mage in the Barrel

I also saved around 45 gold

NautArch

15:47

@MageintheBarrel You had 45 gold to spend?! We've rarely gotten that much gold early on :)

Mage in the Barrel

I rolled a 5d4x10

or whatever the paladin got

i got 120 gold to start with

David Coffron

You could carry medium armor with you (to use that +2 dex) to don when you are up against a powerful foe that you don't think you could survive a hit from

It would:

> If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells.

but your eidolon would be unaffected

Mage in the Barrel

didn't think of that

we'd have to find a merchant selling 1 first

we starting in a port town so it can't be that hard to find heavy

or medium

David Coffron

I'd probably go with medium as it takes half as much time to don

And you get about the same AC since you have 15 dex

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel The homebrew build doesn't give an option for starting gold.

assuming you get the most (the 5d4 option) is awfully kind of your DM :)

Mage in the Barrel

15:52

yeah so we went with stuff from the phb

NautArch

@DavidCoffron The eidolist wouldn't be able to cast firebolt if wearing medium armor.

David Coffron

@NautArch Right. But the avatar can still deal damage. I didn't read the subclass, so idk. But basically, I'm suggesting handicapping your main character to prevent it from dying while relying mostly on your summon

NautArch

@DavidCoffron very true, and they could still use a simple weapon to attack (sling).

Yuuki

Statistically speaking, you do tend to do more damage while alive.

Mage in the Barrel

if my avatar dies my pc can res her

but if my pc dies my avatar can't res her

so it's better to prioritize the survival of my pc if nessesary

David Coffron

15:55

@NautArch (at disadvantage)

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Better than nothing!

David Coffron

Very true

NautArch

unless...

@MageintheBarrel You're not doing critical fumbles, are you?

David Coffron

xD

Mage in the Barrel

what are those?

David Coffron

15:56

@MageintheBarrel If you roll a 1 on an attack roll worse things than just auto-miss happen

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel If you roll a 1 on an attack, does it just miss, or are there other effects?

JohnP

@NautArch That's a no. :p

Mage in the Barrel

i think it's just a miss

NautArch

@JohnP the table I don't DM at uses them. hate it.

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel Then heaving a rock from a sling while in armor you aren't used to has no real risk

JohnP

15:57

@NautArch don't ever play rolemaster then.

GcL

@NautArch Do they apply the same to the npcs and enemies?

NautArch

@JohnP Can you die from it in Rolemaster?

David Coffron

@NautArch What's your opinion of the hitting cover rule (i personally think it is cool)

NautArch

@GcL yup

but we roll a whole lot more frequently.

JohnP

@NautArch Absolutely. The Tiny Crit table is the worst ever.

NautArch

15:58

@DavidCoffron I haven't used it, but I like it. We rarely use cover at all.

@JohnP yeah, i'm out! :D

David Coffron

@NautArch Oh interesting. It is like a core part of our gameplay. People hiding behind allies to get half-cover. Maneuvering around enemies to target the backline with ranged attacks to ignore cover

Mage in the Barrel

this seems similar to mine so I'm curious is it op?

reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/7rypry/…

NautArch

@DavidCoffron I want to introduce it more in my table. But so far, the players don't seem very good tactically to even consider it.

GcL

You know it's final because it has that in the name. Watch out for when new_final comes out though... that's going to be way better.

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel Side note, the art on that title page is pretty awesome

goodguy5

16:00

no one else thinks it's funny that the site they posted the "Soulbinder" to is "GM Binder"?

"At 1st level, you gain a companion that will serve and aid you in every way it possibly can. "

giggity

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel just starting review, but already it looks better

Mage in the Barrel

I actually wanted a humanoid companion but didn't find this until it was too late

GcL

@goodguy5 BD&DSM ?

Mage in the Barrel

maybe it's becuase of my restricted lifestyle but I'm a bit of an M myself

Carcer

I just think the word "binder" is funny because the boob-hiding version is automatically the first thing that comes to mind despite context

Yuuki

16:02

@GcL Binder? I 'ardly know 'er.

Mage in the Barrel

i honestly kinda want my pc to die so I can reroll this class

GcL

@MageintheBarrel Yeah. It looks like the design of someone who wanted to play two characters in combat, but only role play one the rest of the time.

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel Alternatively, ask your GM if you can just adjust your character to a different class. At level 1 it won't change much.

Mage in the Barrel

hmm good idea

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Given some of our (or at least my) concerns about the class, why not just ask if you can roll up a new character (and I"d very much recommend against another homebrew)

Mage in the Barrel

16:03

list you concerns all at once for me?

just saying it's op won't help much

JohnP

@NautArch - For example: 100 on the critical fumble table:

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel Biggest concerns I have is that individuals new to the game will ahve a hard time evaluating whether something is a good fit (even ignoring balance) and can cause problems down the line

Mage in the Barrel

since everyone but me seems to think it's balanced

Yuuki

@NautArch I mean, it's already part of the campaign and the group seems to be (for now) okay with it. I'd recommend against more disruption after so much time has already been spent on it.

JohnP

> Bad taste and poor execution. You attempt to maim yourself. Roll on the "D" critical slash table.

NautArch

16:05

@Yuuki Unless @MageintheBarrel really isn't that interested in playing it.

Yuuki

@MageintheBarrel Oh, I missed that.

JohnP

And if you happen to roll another 100 -

NautArch

@JohnP That's a similar effect to 96-99 for us. A 100 is autodeath.

@JohnP I had rolled a 97 and had my Wis/Cha/Int all reduced by a d4 and could only get some of it back with greater restorations.

Mage in the Barrel

I was strapped for time and just had to pick eidolist cause it was similar to what I wanted

the soulbinder is exactly what I want

JohnP

> Neck strike severs carotid artery and jugular vein. Neck is broken, death in 1 round in extreme agony

NautArch

16:07

@JohnP that's basically a fumble followed by a 100 on the percentile for us.

Carcer

@JohnP is this Traveller chargen?

goodguy5

ha

JohnP

@Carcer I.C.E Rolemaster critical tables.

goodguy5

iirc, you can't die in the new version

Carcer

@goodguy5 cowards

Mage in the Barrel

16:08

since my character and her adorable has already been introduced I think it's a bit late

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel It's never too late when the game is about having fun :)

Mage in the Barrel

I called it session 1/2 since it was basically the prolouge

well won't hurt to ask

so help me come up with an excuse that doesn't seem like i'm just pulling something out of my arse

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel I mean, I can try and put together some information, but as a whole, the class is really powerful, and the 'mitigating' d4 isn't that mitagating, especially if your getting max HP.

JohnP

The tiny animal crits are the worst.

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel You could just say, "hey I found this class that is more like what I was looking for"

Mage in the Barrel

16:12

or should I just be straight with him and say I grabbed the class since I was in a rush and it was close to what I was looking for but I managed to find something that was exactly what I was looking for

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel The avatar itself is very powerful. You can summon it with no cost other than time. The avatar deals a good amount of damage (with bonuses from your proficiency on attacks/saves/skills/damage), and it doesn't cost you any action to control. It not only can deal good damage, but you can still cast a concentration spell and then follow up with cantrips.

As you continue to grow, it gets much stronger. It offers conjuration spells that give you additional creatures to control (including a new construct option) which all add to your action economy vastly increasing over any one else's.

goodguy5

@MageintheBarrel this

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel But again, I'd really really really suggest you not do homebrew.

JohnP

> Calf strike slashes muscle. Foe is at -20. Wound gives foe +2 hits per round, and stuns for 2 rounds.

NautArch

If you want a companion, go with the beastmaster ranger. The revised one has been relatively well received.

David Coffron

16:13

@MageintheBarrel the Soul Binder reads a lot like the Beastmaster Ranger, but with a stronger companion as all the martial abilities are centered around the companion.

Mage in the Barrel

i wanted a humaniod companion

NautArch

@DavidCoffron The 6th level Companion's Protection is kinda nuts. Proficiency in all saving throws and advantage on INT/CHA saving throws.

Yuuki

@MageintheBarrel You could always describe it as a humanoid, it just wouldn't behave mechanically as a humanoid.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron It's also really complicated. THe bonds, the soul points, the animal, your own abilities.

David Coffron

@NautArch That is a lot.

@NautArch Kind of reminds me of the old UA Artificer (v2 I think)

@NautArch and @MageintheBarrel Read the Design Notes, I find them quite interesting

Mage in the Barrel

16:21

interesting indeed

David Coffron

Although as I'm looking through. I doubt this class was playtested before publishing (as there are a number of features that are tenuous on balance)

It seems like the creator has a decent grasp of about how much power a character should have, but didn't actually try it out

Rubiksmoose

Quick poll: how many people here have their answer sorting set to anything other than "votes"?

3

David Coffron

(having two characters with half -the-power can be a lot more than just having one character)

@Rubiksmoose I always keep mine on votes

@Rubiksmoose strawpoll.com/xx15bhaf

Rubiksmoose

nice! answer there^

goodguy5

3/3
100%

Rubiksmoose

16:25

FWIW this is purely for my curiosity as inspired by the latest meta.

goodguy5

4/5

There's an active viewer among us!

David Coffron

I can understand active, but why would you sort by oldest?

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 "Get the pitchforks out"? :p

NautArch

@goodguy5 it's me. And I think it's my accident. I also could have sworn answer ordering was random.

David Coffron

@NautArch It is random if you are sorting by votes and the votes are equal.

Someone_Evil

16:28

@DavidCoffron It's useful for some questions, or some answers really, but not for general viewing

goodguy5

@DavidCoffron Is it "random" I thought there was something behind it.

lunch time

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Nope, purely random.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 There might be something to it when it's like +15, -5 vs +11, -1, but if they are exactly the same I think it is random

Rubiksmoose

7

A: Default "order by" of answers

There are three ways of ordering answers: Votes. Highest voted appears first. Answers of equal votes are sorted randomly. Oldest. Answers appear in the order they were posted. Activity. Answers are ordered by when they were last edited. The most recently edited appearing first. For most of the ...

Mage in the Barrel

i found this btw
Variant Feature: Retainers
If your character has a noble background, you may select this background feature instead of Position of Privilege.

You have the service of three retainers loyal to your family. These retainers can be attendants or messengers, and one might be a majordomo. Your retainers are commoners who can perform mundane tasks for you, but they do not fight for you, will not follow you into obviously dangerous areas (such as dungeons), and will leave if they are frequently endangered or abused.

what constitutes as abused?

David Coffron

16:31

@MageintheBarrel I despise that background feature

It just slows down gameplay a lot in my opinion

Mage in the Barrel

and how mundane does it have to be

Rubiksmoose

10

A: Response order (read: I like rep points)

It depends. If sorting by vote then answers on the same vote score are sorted randomly. If sorting by activity then answers with the most recent changes are displayed first. If sorting by oldest then answers are displayed in the order they were posted - oldest first. The only exception to thi...

> If sorting by vote then answers on the same vote score are sorted randomly.

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose Good to know

@MageintheBarrel That's a GM question

Mage in the Barrel

i'm tottally picturing the spoiled rich kid who has his servants bring his food and dress him

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel I believe those would count (and I think that is one character where that feature fits)

Mage in the Barrel

16:33

you know that type

David Coffron

I just (as a GM) don't particularly like when a single player spends 4 times as much time narrating what his posse is doing in the city

Carcer

@MageintheBarrel abused means mistreated. Subject to physical violence or humiliation. Basically, they're not going to stick around if you yell at them all the time and make them sleep in the stables, etc.

Mage in the Barrel

ah i see

David Coffron

What constitutes abuse is also subjective to the retainer in question. If you have a centaur, maybe they are fine sleeping in the stables as human living quarters aren't designed to accommodate.

Mage in the Barrel

so rather than that noble who makes his servants do the labor it's that noble that constantly yells and hits them

Carcer

16:36

Yeah it is going to depend on context and the people in question

David Coffron

@MageintheBarrel And who keeps forcing retainers to leave his family's service so the family keeps having to replace them (which may not happen if you are kingdoms away on an adventure)

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Now that I think about it, my biggest concern around the Eidolite is about action economy. That's the holy grail of 5e, and this class gets significantly more actions than any other.

Carcer

@NautArch when you entangle master/minion action economy though the result is unsatisfying garbage

see, beastmaster

NautArch

@Carcer DId the revised help with that at all? It seems like it kind of did, but i've never seen it in action.

Carcer

@NautArch the revised ranger beast conclave option completely decouples their action economy

Mage in the Barrel

16:39

i'd be the type who has her servants do basic stuff like cooking, cleaning, and helping get those difficult fancy dresses on. but also makes sure they're well fed have a good place to sleep ect.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron What happens with milestone levelling when you hire NPCs to help?

Carcer

the companion acts on its own

@MageintheBarrel that sounds exactly like what servants are hired for and expected to do

Mage in the Barrel

a satifisied servant is a loyal one, a healthy servant is a useful one.

mistreating them would be counter productive

Carcer

I'm tempted to make a game of thrones reference but I probably shouldn't

David Coffron

@NautArch Nothing. Milestones are all GM dependent

Mage in the Barrel

16:42

and i'd be sure to leave them in town with some money and a good room if I went off to kill some baddies

David Coffron

(for me, if the NPC did most of the work, it doesn't qualify as a milestone for the party. Otherwise it is just the party leveraging their resources to complete the milestone)

NautArch

@DavidCoffron True, and I guess it's up to the GM how/if to handle them.

@DavidCoffron isn't party leveraging their resources to complete amilestone the normal way to complete it? :D

David Coffron

@NautArch Exactly!

Mage in the Barrel

a dead servant is a useless one

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel unless there's a necromancer around. Then it's a VERY useful one.

David Coffron

16:43

@NautArch Haha

Mage in the Barrel

like say we are attacked by bandits on the road I'd have my servants stay back I kill the bandits for threatening me and my people

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel And if I was your DM, I'd have my BBEG use those servants to get to you :)

Mage in the Barrel

it's like the mercs we hired or like "stay back milady we'll take care of this." Me: "We've been ridding for an hour, we're almost to our destinination, I'm not about to let a couple of dumb bandits who don't know how to get a job get in my way, and I'm most certainly not going to wait in my cariage ." "Now who wants to die first." Bandit throws a punch "oh a volenteer"

5 minutes later

Xirema

As a C++ programmer, talking about what happens if a character tries to use Flame Blade with BB/GFB makes my soul vibrate in a very uncomfortable way. =|

It's kind of like asking what happens if you take a negative index of an array.

Like... Sure. I can logically construct a scenario where that can all fit together.

Mage in the Barrel

corpses of bandits sprawled everywhere "that was too easy where can I find something else to kill"

Xirema

16:52

But it won't do what you expect for a million reasons I cannot begin to explain to you, and there's something existentially terrifying about even considering the concept.

NautArch

@Xirema I never even thought about using a normal weapon inefficiently.

Mage in the Barrel

also whats bbeg

Sir Cinnamon

@Xirema Python makes this awesome

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Big Bad Evil Guy

Mage in the Barrel

said big bad evil guy would likely die before he got the chance

NautArch

16:54

@Xirema I was typing a silly thing about a longsword and use it to bludgeon. And then I realized that's an actual use case. If you're fighting something with resistance to slashing/piercing but not bludgeoning.

@MageintheBarrel hahahahahaaha, you funny.

Mage in the Barrel

I hired mercs as bodyguards

I kept them relativity close

so they would get caught in crossfire but i'd also be able to reach them fairly quickly

NautArch

@Xirema I'm trying to think of an answer, but I'm stuck on whether or not the flame blade is actually an object. And can't think of a way to answer that.

Xirema

@NautArch Yyyyyup.

Mage in the Barrel

also if the bbeg did get's past me what would he do

Xirema

Best case scenario, RAW, is that you get to deal Improvised Weapon fire damage using a Strength roll.

NautArch

16:57

@Xirema I really want to say it's not, because it's an evoked spell and you make a spell attack with it. But it's not enough for me.

Mage in the Barrel

threaten to kill them if I didn't give him all my money

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel You're assuming this would be a frontal attack. It wouldn't. Or the Evil Guy's minions would feint to distract and come up behind them, putting you in the situation of attacking or savings.

Mage in the Barrel

so once they capture my servants what do they do?

NautArch

Utilizing spells like dream, modify memory, dominate person, etc. can be just as effective.

@MageintheBarrel If you care about them, their capture now is directing you as to how to respond. You'd likely be walking into a trap.

Mage in the Barrel

they'd have to be pretty strong to use the spells wouldn't they?

NautArch

17:01

Or, if they're preparing food and they 've been turned, maybe they're poisoning you :)

@MageintheBarrel That's why they're the Big Bad Evil Guy.

Sir Cinnamon

Keyword Big

Mage in the Barrel

so then I would be fairly strong aswell?

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel You often don't actually confront the BBEG directly until you are strong enough. But they are working against you from early on.

Mage in the Barrel

also i'm a noble A LOT of people want to kill me

I probably have ways to check for poison

NautArch

But if they know you have people in the party who are weak and that you care about, they would use them.

Mage in the Barrel

17:05

so a hostage then?

I'd probably go with them into the trap

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel as one option. I'm just saying that having extras in the party isn't always a bonus. There's risk there as well. What that risk is will be dependent on the imagination of the DM.

Sir Cinnamon

as a general rule, the BBEG is probably stronger than you

JohnP

@SirCinnamon Otherwise they are just some dude with a grudge.

Mage in the Barrel

if I'm the soulbinder class I can hide my summon in that pocket dimension

Sir Cinnamon

They're just Regular Mean Enemy Man

Mage in the Barrel

17:07

so they can't tell if I have it with me

which means even if I leave my armour and weapons behind I have a way to defend myself

after they were free I'd wait till a good time to escape or wait for my party member to come rescue me

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel And I don't think you should be that class.

It's overpowered and overcomplicated.

Mage in the Barrel

if i'm a rich noble they'll likely be holding me for ransom

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel You're making way too many assumptions :)

Mage in the Barrel

not killing me

fair assement

i'm going by what they would logically do

the most efficient method would be to capture my servants trade me for them then hold me for ransom of they're in it for money

NautArch

@DavidCoffron I was going to upvote, but your answer really feels watered down as you try and hedge all the bets. You lead strong, but then the much longer section on "what if" seems to take more precedence.

@MageintheBarrel And bad guys always do what you think they will? bahahahaaha.

Mage in the Barrel

17:13

irl things usually go like I think they will so maybe i'm just used to it

do you know of any good humaniod companion classes

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel There are none, as far as I know.

Mage in the Barrel

not in official

NautArch

Other than a Necromancer wizard. But that's not really humanoid, it's undead.

Mage in the Barrel

if there's no humanoid classes in RAW then homebrew is my best bet

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel I'm gonna have to step away from this. I've tried to my case on sticking with official, but you've got heart set on this :)

goodluck!

Mage in the Barrel

17:18

thanks

JohnP

@NautArch tired of pounding sand down a rathole? :)

NautArch

@JohnP Just differing playstyles.

JohnP

@NautArch Just finished reading Crucible by James Rollins, now I want to play a cyberpunk RPG.

It's actually a bit of a chilling novel if you accept that AI is a foregone conclusion and that it will likely evolve itself to be beyond us.

NautArch

@JohnP I've never been much of a cyberpunk guy. And I was wrong, I had just finished first book of Serpentwar saga, not 2nd. You didn't spoil, but you definitely wouldn't have had I been reading the 2nd book.

David Coffron

@NautArch I get that but I agree that those questions are worth answering in case a similar item that does count as an object comes up

JohnP

17:35

@NautArch Rollins isn't cyberpunk, he writes a series about a group called Sigma Force. Covert operatives but with a science basis. He takes a basic science fact, then extrapolates it into a doomsday scenario. Sort of like Robin Cook does for medical.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Hmm, one more thought. This effectively makes it a 3d6 fire on a normal hit, a 1d6 fire (or slashing) on an improvised hit. What's the case for wanting to make an improvised?

JohnP

This one just happened to be about artificial intelligence, brain mapping with neural dust (Which is an actual thing), etc.

NautArch

@JohnP hmm, i'll put it in my wish list :)

David Coffron

@NautArch Extra Attack

Sdjz

@DavidCoffron Plus a possible modifier to damage

NautArch

17:39

@DavidCoffron Would that modifier be on the fire damage? Or would it be slashing? This just seems like a "It is no raw, and should be no".

Someone_Evil

@NautArch Opportunity attacks

David Coffron

@NautArch if it's treated like a scimitar it is 1d6 slashing. If not, it is 1d4 fire. You get extra attack on either and also add your strength to either

JohnP

@NautArch It's a really good series. There was one on CRISPr technology (Gene splicing, animal hybrids, etc), another with black hole entanglements, and of course typical male shoot everything in sight adventure interwoven.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Ah, that makes sense. @Sdmakes a really good point about opening up OAs with it. That does not seem the intent and is backed by the actual raw rules.

Yuuki

@JohnP Honestly, when it comes to stuff like animal hybrids, I'd rather just refer to generic gene splicing than trying to use something topical like CRISPr.

IIRC, most genetic experiments (with the exception of the incredibly unethical HIV-resistance experiment in China) with CRISPr are still done on the bacterial scale.

NautArch

17:48

@DavidCoffron Got my +1, but I think it would be good to add the concerns on getting much more out of the spell than it seemingly intends.

David Coffron

@NautArch I'd like to, but I'm not sure how to include it. Maybe just a disclaimer that house ruling to allow for unintentional interactions should be done with caution?

NautArch

@DavidCoffron <throws more uncounted upvotes at you> Yeah, that may be it. But may not be worth it. I think your first section is really clear that this isn't possible. If they want to make it possible, I don'tt hink you need to present all possible interactions.

David Coffron

@NautArch shrug I'll drop a disclaimer in their

NautArch

@DavidCoffron "Don't do this, but if you do, watch out for X"

David Coffron

How's that look?

> I strongly caution against house rules that improve the flexibility of game features as it can lead to unforeseen synergies and imbalances.

goodguy5

17:57

ung, too much lunch.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 Better than too much runch

NautArch

@DavidCoffron too much crunch? never!

David Coffron

I was referring to runch, the weed

goodguy5

was this a
1. throw.... nm. the weed.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron I'm...not sure. A lot of tables may like flexibility of game features /shrug.

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