TRPG General Chat

12:26 AM

5

Q: My player wants to cast multiple charges of magic missile from a wand

So I was GMing for the first time my custom Pathfinder campaign, and my Rogue uses a wand of magic missile with 8 charges left in it against the last opponent of the session, and vaporizes him. I instinctually said he couldn't do that, and he explained that he only needed to make his Use Magic De...

Joshua

12:36 AM

We we're discussing use of horrid wilting underwater. It could do nothing useful, or it could cause cavatitation.

Cavitation damage is, well, bad news.

BESW

Always brush and floss your teeth, kids.

Joshua

ok that's a pun

nitsua60

@BESW But not with one of those ultrasonic brushes: any tiny air bubbles could, at that speed, cause cavitation damage.

(I believe that's a conversational Mobius strip, at this point?)

BESW

@nitsua60 Möbius teeth-whitening strips! For a shine keeps on going, front and back.

nitsua60

@BESW I think if you cut a Mobius teeth-whitening strip longitudinally, you can put it on without taking off your headgear first?

linksassin

12:44 AM

@Rubiksmoose @kviiri @V2Blast et. Al. I've attempted to make my question less opinion based. Is there anything else I can do or should I give it up as a lost cause?

trogdor

@nitsua60 it buuuuuurnsss

linksassin

It was a cool idea but I'm not that attached to it and if it can't be saved I will just remove it.

Joshua

Lost cause.

Shalvenay

hey there @linksassin

hey as well @nitsua60

linksassin

@Shalvenay G'day how's it going?

Joshua

12:48 AM

Ever use horrid wilting to jerk meat?

Helwar

hi

Shalvenay

hey there @Helwar, how's it going?

@linksassin alright here, as for you?

@Joshua that's...going to leave a strange aftertaste, no?

Joshua

Huh. Didn't think of that.

linksassin

@Shalvenay Not too bad.

Shalvenay

@linksassin alright out here, myself

Helwar

1:06 AM

@Shalvenay hey, fine! :)

V2Blast

1:21 AM

@linksassin I think the main problem is the question's reliance on "the physics of the material plane", when such physics are not clearly defined. A very limited set of rules intended for gameplay can't really define the fundamental laws of the universe.

linksassin

@V2Blast That's kind of the point. Real physics means it doesn't work. Does the lack of rules in D&D mean that is does? That was the inspiration for the question. I can understand how it is problematic though.

Do my additions make it better? Or is there a way I can reword that to get an non-opinion-based version of the same idea?

V2Blast

@linksassin Ain't no rule says a dog can't play basketball.

linksassin

@V2Blast True. Should I just give it up as a lost cause and remove the question? It was a cool idea but I guess it's better suited to remaining in chat.

V2Blast

also:

Gorilla, yes. Adorable golden retriever, yes. But it says nothing about meerkats.

Hot RPG Questions

5

Q: If I create magical darkness with the Silent Image spell, can I see through it if I have the Devil's Sight warlock invocation?

Since Devil's Sight allows one to see through magical and nonmagical darkness, and Silent Image can create any visual phenomenon, can I create darkness as a visual phenomenon which Devil's Sight can then see through?

dnd-5e spells warlock illusion eldritch-invocations

nitsua60

1:30 AM

@Shalvenay Hiya.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 what's up?

nitsua60

Exam week--grading!

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 nods I suppose I'll catch you once the grading is done then? :)

(and maybe, just maybe, you'll get a chance to watch the video I linked you in Discord if you haven't already?)

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Yeah--Thursday I'll have a little leisure time again.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 cool :)

Hot RPG Questions

1:46 AM

6

Q: Self-Preservation: How to DM NPCs that Love Living?

I have it in mind that humanoid NPCs do not "rage against the dying of the light" as much as they should. Combat encounters frequently result in a full-on massacre, when realistically a single fatality would instill an idea in everyone's minds the gravity of the situation, resulting in either a t...

dnd-5e combat npc tactics

Stackstuck

2:37 AM

Meanwhile, I'm over here wondering what the heck the developers of this game were thinking when they said such a fraught thing as "can only repair up to half the damage"

Helwar

o_O

Stackstuck

why did they do this

Shalvenay

@Stackstuck which game, and is this like a "quick fix" in the middle of combat, or a rule about repairs in general?

Stackstuck

@Shalvenay It's about a specific healing effect, and here's the question I asked about it: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/148883/…

Helwar

oh it's anima

I played the heck out of that

gonna read the question

Stackstuck

2:44 AM

@Helwar I have asked *so many* Anima questions tbh

like there's actually a large number of them that, IIRC, still have no answers

I suspect they will *stay* that way because there *aren't* any, but dang the game is still fun.

nitsua60

@Stackstuck What's ~~the~~ your 30-second elevator pitch for the game?

Helwar

For a few years is all I managed to play

but I've been away from the SE for a while

HUm, extremely complicated Anime fantasy

Stackstuck

@nitsua60 "if ever there was a game to be called an actual kitchen sink, it would be this one".

Helwar

kitchen sink?

Stackstuck

Y'know, "everything but the kitchen sink", that idiom?

sort of?

Helwar

2:47 AM

It's an idiom I actually don't know about

but by the power of Google, I'll learn!

nitsua60

Helwar

Now I know -kung fu- the Idiom

yeah

every system works completely different than the other... wich is great once you get to know them all!

Actually I usually defaulted to mental powers because they were the only sustainable thing in the whole game

...

Magic is like... Phenomenal cosmic powers!!!! Just for one fight. Come back in two months for the rematch

summoning was the same

and Ki is like: "You just wait there while I charge my Getsuuga for three turns. Just don't move! It's almost charged! Aaaaand, he died before I could get it of..."

Ben

Afternoon everybody

Helwar

Hi!

Stackstuck

@Helwar Actually, I've been building a Technician and a wizard-enchanter, and both of them have their primary shticks always online...Although the enchanter build is massively boosted by having a renewable materials source. (The GM ruled that we could use someone's fancy blood as a material.)

looks at Power Boost 40

Helwar

2:54 AM

I had a friend that made a Technician that shoot darts. Every single dart was like an antitank bullet in his hands. And it was always online.

He didn't do anything else though

Stackstuck

I made a tank.

(admittedly, bolstered by Nemesis powers)

V2Blast

now I want to see just how ridiculous it is

Ben

I have a Tank named after.. well not me, but one of my PCs

Stackstuck

Is there a character limit on messages here?

Helwar

I feel super weird talking about anima with someone that's not in my friend group. Like... I knew nobody else that plays it

Shalvenay

2:56 AM

@Stackstuck there is, yes

Stackstuck

@Shalvenay how many characters?

Wait a minute I can attach files

wait nope

only images

Shalvenay

@Stackstuck not sure precisely, but the editbox will give you an error message if things are too long

Ben

An M1A1 Tank named "Doug Ironhands

Stackstuck

The core of the build, then:
==Techniques==
Use of Nemesis (70 MK)
Use of Ki (40 MK)
Ki Control (30 MK)
Body of Emptiness (10 MK): +20 all Resistances, never bleed
No Needs (10 MK): No physical needs (e.g. food, sleep, breathing)
Armor of Emptiness (20 MK): -10 to Base Damage of attacks. If BD reaches 0, attack does no damage.
Noht (30 MK): Armor of Emptiness to -30.
Inhuman (Nemesis) (20 MK): Can reach Inhuman difficulty on checks
Use of Necessary Energy (10 MK): Fatigue ticks 10x less. Can spend 5 Fatigue/Round.

@Helwar you know somebody else now!

Helwar

I hear the translation is bonkers

Stackstuck

3:03 AM

y e a h

also they failed at unit conversion

there's feet mixed with meters and kg mixed with lbs...

Helwar

for once it's cool that you english speakers are the ones that have to handle a translation, since THIS game is in my language :P

@Stackstuck OMG hahaha

Stackstuck

@Helwar they still haven't translated the Core Exxet despite several other Exxets, that they have translated, taking rules from the new Core Exxet!

Helwar

hahahahha

omg

Stackstuck

Looking at you, Arcana Exxet!

(not that I particularly want to return to spell levels, those are dumb)

(I have had enough of those from 5e)

oh and a question that came up in re: Ki Healing discussion: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/148885/…

Helwar

as per your Ki healing question, I don't really know enought ot make a full fledged answer. What I know is, instead of talling all the damage, we wrote up a list of all the damage we took in individual hits, because there were a lot of things that could happen and eventually it was the only way to hanlde it

like, Ki healing, or one of our wizards time bending the attacks...

Stackstuck

3:07 AM

time bending

did you say time bending

Helwar

yeah

Stackstuck

the bullshit level only ever goes up

(it's a sub-path isn't it)

Helwar

silly level 10 bs

haha

Ben

Just wanna keep the cussing to a minimum :) @Stackstuck @Helwar

Stackstuck

I've gotten up to spell level 80 in a path at level 2.

Helwar

3:08 AM

he used some summoning thingamagig and time bended whole turns...

V2Blast

@Stackstuck giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html

Helwar

@Ben Sorry! Didn't even register to me as a cuss! My mistake

Ben

It's all good :)

Helwar

I think you have already chastised me on that before, so it makes it a repeat offense!

Ben

:P

Stackstuck

3:14 AM

...so are you like, a mod or something? I am confused.

Helwar

I dunno if he is a mod but no need to be a mod to be civil :)

Shalvenay

@Stackstuck nah, he's just helping keep things nice and tidy around here :)

Stackstuck

valid

Helwar

going back to your question, is not that you can heal up to half of your max HP

is that you can heal up to half of the damage taken

(I think, don't quote me on that, I've also not played anima since D&D5e came out)

V2Blast

5 mins ago, by Helwar

(I think, don't quote me on that, I've also not played anima since D&D5e came out)

:P

Helwar

3:24 AM

media1.tenor.com/images/4ea69f83beabe118d22d1bf5ddc0d16b/…

V2Blast

The survey for the UA artificer is out! https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/survey-artificer-returns

Here's a direct link to the survey: https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/4887406/D-D-Survey-37-Artificer

Helwar

uo, they changed the artificer?

V2Blast

initial revised artificer came out in UA end of February, with another UA earlier this month adding 2 more subclasses, 3 new infusions, and a bunch of non-PHB spells to the spell list

Helwar

does it look good?

V2Blast

opinions vary. but it definitely seems like a solid base class

you should look at the UA yourself :P

Helwar

3:39 AM

will do! I was looking for it but I asked meanwhile :)

BESW

2

V2Blast

some people complain that the subclasses are too "pet-based" (one can make turrets, another has a homunculus, a third can imbue an object with intelligence, and the fourth gets an "Iron Defender" - kind of like a (4-legged) golem/robot dog

@BESW is this the motto of RPG.SE? :)

Helwar

I'll be off for tonight. See ya!

trogdor

@BESW I always love this XD

@V2Blast it's the motto of everything

linksassin

4:07 AM

@V2Blast I certainly agree with that. I've generally found that the Artificer is unsatisfying because most of the abilities are tied to another object/creature.

V2Blast

@linksassin I think "pet-based" is a bit of a weird generalization given how utterly different the 4 entities are, but I can see that perspective

I also haven't played it

linksassin

What I would love to see is an Artificer that can literally craft solutions to problem mid combat. Something like "Combat Crafting: You can make solutions out of nowhere in very little time. As an Action you can use materials at hand to create one of the following objects. It lasts 1 minute or until destroyed"

Miniman

It's a little weird - the 3.5 Artificer had the ability to make themselves pets, but pets in 3.5 weren't nearly as big of a deal.

I think the turret was a big source of discontent to begin with that's carried over into the other pets - if they'd just made it the flying automated crossbow it used to be, I suspect people would have much less problem with it.

linksassin

Where the options would be things like, use a shield and roundish rocks to make a skateboard. Your movement increases by 20 feet.

Ben

@linksassin Shield Surfing

linksassin

4:15 AM

@Ben Something like that yeah.

Ben

Lol

linksassin

Or craft cover, or imbue a weapon with a special ability. Or a host of other things.

Miniman

I mean, I'm okay with the artificer being more about preparation, personally.

linksassin

Basically I think that people that play the want to be able to come up with innovative solutions and craft their way out of trouble by being clever. But with the crafting times that doesn't really work.

Ben

@linksassin Savage Worlds has that.

It's called "on the fly", where you can spend a "benny" (which is sort of like inspiration, but also sort of not haha) to re-jigger something quickly in a round

linksassin

4:24 AM

@Ben Something like that. But for 5e is what I think the artificer (or at least one of the subclasses) should be.

There's something not that great about having a wimpy character than isn't very useful unless their object/pet is nearby. Similar to part of the issue with the Beast Master ranger

Ben

Yeah

V2Blast

@linksassin If anything, BM ranger has sort of the opposite issue - the BM ranger is just as strong in combat as any other ranger, which means the pet is prevented from being too useful

That said, base artificer seems quite solid even before subclasses, due to spellcasting (especially cantrips) and infusions

linksassin

@V2Blast Sort of. It is a strictly inferior option most of the time though. But that's only a side issue to many other concerns with that class.

@V2Blast Again true. But I'm not sure it quite scratches the itch they are going for. Hence the repeated versions and ample feedback

Stackstuck

4:40 AM

Switching cantrips out is just, absurd.

Miniman

@Stackstuck Eh. It's different to everyone else, admittedly not for any obvious reason, but it's not like it really matters.

Ben

5:01 AM

Current state of awareness: I bought a coffee 3 hours ago, and it's been sitting in front of me all this time, and I forgot it was there.

linksassin

@Ben The irony... if you had drunk the coffee you would have remembered to drink your coffee...

Ben

Catch 22

linksassin

@Ben I bought that book the other day. One of the classics on my list that I need to get around to reading.

Ben

@linksassin I have been watching the mini-series adaptation on Stan. Lol

Hot RPG Questions

3

Q: Do Multiclassed spellcasters add their ability modifier or proficiency bonus twice when determining spell save DC?

I was told somewhere that a way to increase spell save DC was by multiclassing and taking a spell in each class multiclassed. If this is the case, a Sorcerer and Warlock multiclass would be able to add Charisma modifier twice to spell save DC if both have the spell. I'm unsure if it was the abi...

dnd-5e multi-classing saving-throw stacking spellcasting

V2Blast

5:14 AM

@linksassin I learned from a trivia game (technically a Let's Play of a trivia game) that the first chapter was originally published with the title Catch-18 in a magazine

"The title is a reference to a fictional bureaucratic stipulation which embodies forms of illogical and immoral reasoning.[5] The opening chapter of the novel was originally published in New World Writing as Catch-18 in 1955, but Heller's agent, Candida Donadio, requested that he change the title of the novel, so it would not be confused with another recently published World War II novel, Leon Uris's Mila 18.[16] The number 18 has special meaning in Judaism (it means Alive in Gematria; see Chai) and was relevant to early drafts of the novel which had a somewhat greater Jewish emphasis.[17]

Catch-22

Catch-22 is a satirical novel by American author Joseph Heller. He began writing it in 1953; the novel was first published in 1961. Often cited as one of the most significant novels of the twentieth century, it uses a distinctive non-chronological third-person omniscient narration, describing events from the points of view of different characters. The separate storylines are out of sequence so the timeline develops along with the plot. The novel is set during World War II, from 1942 to 1944. It mainly follows the life of Captain John Yossarian, a U.S. Army Air Forces B-25 bombardier. Most of the...

Ben

@V2Blast It doesn't quite have the same ring to it though, does it. Haha

V2Blast

5:28 AM

@Ben Maybe it would have, if they hadn't changed it!

18, 11, 17, and 14 were all rejected

14 is totally a funny number though

Ben

Maybe. There's definitely some kind of word-science behind it all haha

Kinda like how you repeat a word enough times and it stops making sense

V2Blast

@Ben like "communication" in my questionnaire responses? :P

Semantic satiation

Semantic satiation (also semantic saturation) is a psychological phenomenon in which repetition causes a word or phrase to temporarily lose meaning for the listener, who then perceives the speech as repeated meaningless sounds. Extended inspection/Over-Analysation in place of repetition also produces the same effect. == History and research == Leon Jakobovits James coined the phrase "semantic satiation" in his 1962 doctoral dissertation at McGill University. It was demonstrated as a stable phenomenon that is possibly similar to a cognitive form of reactive inhibition. Prior to that, the expression...

Ben

5:47 AM

I am a bit weird in that I like to understand how things work. And if I don't know, I ponder. And one such thing I have constantly puzzled over, is just exactly how the brain works.

Electrical signals, chemical reactions, all interacting with a lumpy muscle turns into memories, dreams, thoughts and feelings.

In-Mind-Blown-ception

Mind-In-Blown-ception?

In-Blown-ception-mind...?

V2Blast

lol

trogdor

6:07 AM

@Ben I'm literally thinking about that stuff like every other day or so

Ben

I also think about the every day stuff too. You know, how hyper-space travel works, what to do if you ever have heating seeking missiles fired at you from down an alley, what you would do if you woke up in the matrix, or as a dog.

You know... standard stuff

trogdor

lol ok I don't think of those things

Ben

At age thirty, you've spent a month on birthdays.

o_o

trogdor

instead I think about my own weird stuff

Ben

@trogdor Like "why does my x do this thing"?

trogdor

6:22 AM

like what I am going to do in the future, where I'll live, silly useless stuff like that

Ben

Oh right haha

Ben

6:36 AM

What do people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time?

trogdor

I dunno, do u?

Ben

I do not. But it's probably on the same train of thought as "if smokers stopped smoking, they could buy a Lamborghini"

trogdor

lol

I doubt that

but they could certainly save a little

or at least spend it on something that isn't literally killing them really slow

Ben

The common response to that is "well where's your Lambo?"

trogdor

or they could be like me and spend it on video games books and junk food

:P

Ben

6:47 AM

Since bat wings are just skin stretched between elongated fingers, they can fly through the power of Jazz Hands

V2Blast

@Ben If I ever buy a lambo, something has gone seriously wrong in my life

user15026

@Ben omg now I am imagining a bat with a little saxophone

Ben

You're Welcome

trogdor

lol

@Ash you've infected me with bat Jazz now

Ben

Cats have no clue they're so famous over the web

trogdor

6:58 AM

@Ben they know

BESW

B.A.T. Jazz Band - Kombola

►

trogdor

@BESW welp it's spreading now

I hope you are happy

Ben

Yes.

Yes I am.

trogdor

lol

V2Blast

7:25 AM

man, the condescension in the Starfinder RPG discord towards 5e and 5e players is unbearable

linksassin

@V2Blast For real? Because it's a "simple game"?

V2Blast

Indeed

someone posted a link to this Nathan Stewart interview: geektyrant.com/news/…

a user's response:
"5E Beginner Box: now with lobotomy coupons?
I can't wait for 6E, in which it's just monopoly."

a sane person responded:
"I find it really strange that you can't just admit that some people would like a simpler game than you and thats okay"

trogdor

I have plenty of complaints about 5e,.. over simplicity is not one of them

V2Blast

the first user claimed, "We're watching a bubble of players coming and going through the hobby. And I think we're going to see it pop." the other user questioned what that even meant. and the first user replied:
"Maybe less a pop, and more a flood with these shitty 5E reskins that never seem to be successful. But either way, if PF2E is anything to go by, I expect other companies to try catering to the market, and then the 5Ebabies will get board and go play whatever the next Fortnite is instead, while the serious hobbyists will have stuck with older, crunchier systems: leading to a violent …

and added: "And hopping from "Babies first RPG" to "d20 balanced" is how we get three billion "COMING FROM 5E TO SF, HOW DO?" posts weekly."

Carcer

@trogdor it's all relative

V2Blast

7:31 AM

I guess it's mainly just one user being a jerk... but not really much pushback there besides the one other user

Carcer

relative to 3.X/PF, 5e is simple

trogdor

lol

that's true

well I don't know about PF but I know 3.5 was a ridiculous monster of over complexity

Carcer

PF is just 3.5 but more so

it has a few sensible improvements to the rules and a little bit of streamlining and then it's grown into a huge bloated monster full of splats just like 3.5 did

V2Blast

I think Starfinder's new enough that it hasn't hit that point yet

linksassin

@V2Blast That's not even what that article is talking about

V2Blast

7:35 AM

@linksassin Obviously. But since when have jerks let that stop them from boasting about their intellectual superiority? :P

linksassin

@V2Blast Sadly far too true.

Carcer

@V2Blast sure. I'd honestly be a bit surprised if Starfinder gets a lot more content

@Carcer why's that?

PF2

ah, true

7:37 AM

also the other sci-fi spinoff versions of d20 system in the past weren't overwhelmingly popular as I recall

BESW

A friend asked me about Starfinder's purported diversity and representation, and the more I look into its development background, and Paizo's treatment of writers generally, the happier I am that I've never been tempted to give Paizo money for anything.

@Carcer Ask me about Stargate SG-1 d20. I dare you.

Carcer

@BESW tell me about Stargate SG-1 d20, BESW!

BESW

Feb 15 '18 at 4:18, by BESW

(I will never run out of things to complain about re: the Stargate SG-1 RPG.)

V2Blast

@BESW Is it purported to have diversity and representation? How so? (also what's the development background/mistreatment of writers situation?)

Carcer

@V2Blast I'd guess "we made drow not automatically evil!" is probably one of their highlights

BESW

7:40 AM

@V2Blast Starfinder's got a fair amount of diversity in its art, and much hash has been made about the character sheets having "pronoun" instead of "gender," and there's a three-gender alien race, etc.

trogdor

@BESW I was just thinking of that one as an example

Carcer

@BESW those all sound like things that would upset someone who whines about "5e babies" to be honest

Someone_Evil

@Carcer I'm not convinced those wouldn't be able to whine about anything put in front of them if they feel like whining

BESW

But, well. Evil Hat's "Fate of Cthulhu" seems to have more representation behind the scenes than Starfinder and they did the really lousy thing of making diversity writers into stretch goals. And honestly I'm kinda okay with that because let me remind you how Paizo treats its writers and then point out that Starfinder's promised a breakneck publication schedule with no specific authors credited, just their dev team as a whole.

Ben

I just heard an ibis sneeze.

linksassin

7:45 AM

@BESW TBH that kind of diversity is fairly good in pathfinder 1e as well. They are good and using a mix of pronouns throughout the book. But that's about all I can say for it.

BESW

@linksassin I'm just gonna say, human cultures have more than two genders already. Treating thirdgender as an inhuman thing is kinda lousy.

V2Blast

@BESW oh right, I saw that link when it was originally posted

linksassin

@BESW It was still a big step forward at the time. Agree that restricting options by race is a bit crap though. If you are giving a third option, give a third option don't be half-hearted about it

BESW

Paizo and Wizards both tend to pay 5 cents a word to their writers. That's supposedly 'average' for the RPG industry but it's extremely non-representative.

@linksassin I don't give any credence to "good for its time" defenses for a game that was published two years ago, on a subject that's been around for thousands of years.

linksassin

@BESW I was talking about pathfinder with it's mixed use of pronouns as a big step.

Carcer

7:51 AM

@linksassin I feel pretty sure pathfinder wasn't the first to do that

BESW

In terms of wages, indie publishers like Evil Hat tend to pay closer to the mainstream publishing world's per-word standards, but the reported average for the RPG industry is deeply cut by publishers like White Wolf which go much lower than 5 cents a word. The RPG industry Twitter community had a big conversation about this last week.

Carcer

yeah, the 3e core books use alternating pronouns as well, from quick check

linksassin

@Carcer Including neutral they/theirs?

Carcer

at the very least in the class descriptions the pronoun used is in alignment with the presentation of the associated iconic character

@linksassin that seems less likely, didn't realise that was what you meant

yeah, skills section seeing several "he or she"s and "his or hers" already

linksassin

@Carcer Pathfinder uses three sets of pronouns and yes they tend to align with their iconic characters. Not sure if they have iconic character's with neutral pronouns though.

@Carcer I think the skills section is fairly neutral

I do still doubt they were the first though.

Carcer

7:55 AM

I still wouldn't want to place any bets that they were first on the theywagon no

linksassin

@Carcer It's a big risk for a major publisher to be the first to do anything.

V2Blast

@BESW what is the typical per-word rate for the mainstream publishing world?

@linksassin I mean... I agree that that's the mentality most of them have, but... that seems like a really insignificantly tiny risk

linksassin

@V2Blast I'm not saying it's ok, but there is definitely a perception that being inclusive risks alienating your core audience.

V2Blast

@linksassin Yeah, I agree that the perception exists. I also think it's a ridiculously silly perception :P

(unless, of course, your intended core audience is jerks)

vicky_molokh

@linksassin I don't expect all sci-fi races (and more importantly, cultures) to view things the same way. It probably makes more sense for some of them to see none, some to see two but totally unlike the ones found in human cultures, some have three that most humans wouldn't even consider genders etc.

linksassin

7:59 AM

@V2Blast If only it was. Everytime I think we have finally reached a place where inclusivity is the norm someone says something that reminds me how far we still have to go.

Ben

@Ash play Ironclaw. You play anthropomorphic animals, so a Bat Musician is entirely legitimate. Lol

Jan 23 at 0:18, by Ben

@BESW I can't remember the name of it unfortunately, and it was while we were playing the Darks Souls board game (lots of fun cc @miniman) so I never really payed much attention to it - other than the fact that a Necromancer Raccoon is entirely possible in said system. Lol

I wouldn't mind playing a one off in this game.

linksassin

@V2Blast For instance someone at work who I would count as highly intelligent actually said to me the other day that women don't deserve to be in leadership because men are inherently better at it. I honestly didn't know how to answer because it was just to blatantly wrong.

Carcer

sadly intelligence doesn't exclude you from being a massive string of expletives

linksassin

@Carcer Turns out they are a deeply conservative christian who believe they are in the right to promote their beliefs and condemning those that don't fit is loving them.

vicky_molokh

@linksassin A highly intelligent person? Perhaps by showing that the belief is unfounded through the power of science and statistics?

linksassin

8:11 AM

@vicky_molokh Honestly this was part of a major discussion where they said they don't believe in any science that is based in the assumption god isn't real. The guy is a senior software engineer in a major company. Extremely switched on but completely intractable on this topic.

Ben

@linksassin We had one member of our regular dnd game host a protest against gays and bis outside the house of the guy that ran said sessions, whom are a polyamorous bisexual couple.

Someone_Evil

@Ben What is "it" in that sentence? I hope it isn't "being intelligent", because that doesn't sound right

linksassin

Doesn't believe in dinosaurs.

Ben

When approached by said couple, they behaved as if nothing was wrong.

linksassin

@Ben I can only imagine that ended well....

Ben

8:14 AM

@Someone_Evil Haha no, being a person of closed mind. I'm just playing on "intelligence" and "string of expletives"...

BESW

@V2Blast 5 cents a word is a standard floor for transcription fees.

trogdor

ouch

BESW

trogdor

not only does that seem low

but they are doing more work than that too

Ben

@linksassin I wasn't there, but the phrase "they're dead to me" was used

linksassin

8:16 AM

@Ben About right too. I had a friends who's parents took them to a literal exorcism to "pray the gay away". Then spent the next few year taking her in and out of hospital wondering why she had mental health issues.

Carcer

@Ben "One of my players took part in a protest outside my house about my sexuality and lifestyle. How can I punish his character in game?"

Ben

@linksassin Perception and opinion are very dangerous things

Carcer

stack it

BESW

(source)

vicky_molokh

@BESW Wait, 5 cents per word just for typing stuff you're told? That seems to be easily >€100 per hour. I should give up programming and become a transcriptor.

BESW

8:17 AM

> Without signing writers to exclusive deals, most magazines top out in the $1 to $2 per word range (exclusivity can get you $3). It’s possible to publish 30,000 words of freelance writing a year at those rates — about eight articles the length of the one you’re reading — but it’s extremely difficult to land and execute that many assignments successfully. (source)

trogdor

@Carcer stop even associating with that person at all XD

Ben

@Carcer Haha. Only here for the comments :P

linksassin

@vicky_molokh Your error free typing rate would be lower than you think. Plus that doesn't include time for editing/formatting and anything that isn't straight writing.

BESW

> Most intermediate to advanced freelance writers charge between 10 cents and $1 per word, depending on the amount of work they will have to put into the project. (source)

vicky_molokh

@linksassin Ah, formatting. That changes things. Because even reducing the rate to effectively 4 words per minute, that's still a >€10 per hour. Though I guess the downside is that's much less interesting than coding.

linksassin

8:21 AM

@vicky_molokh Not sure about you, but $10 an hour for constant typing with no benefits doesn't sound that great.

Ben

@linksassin Wow... I have no response to that :(

vicky_molokh

@linksassin Why? Is the constant typing that much worse on the hands than intermittent typing like when people just chat furiously?

linksassin

@Ben Yeah, unfortunately she dropped out of school and broke of contacts with her friends. Not sure how she's doing now. I know she's alive but that's about it.

@vicky_molokh It's boring mostly. I wouldn't want that as a job. Plus I don't know where you live but that's less than 1/3 of what I earn as a software engineer.

vicky_molokh

@linksassin Hmm. That's the one downside I think is real. But then again, a lot seems to depend on what the effective rate is. 40WPM seems like a sustained no-edit rate, but I have no idea how much the formatting bit eats up (and I am definitely no good at formatting at this stage in my life).

linksassin

@vicky_molokh I've never done it as a job. But I would trust the people who set those rates that it is the minimum they need to charge to earn a decent wage.

Ben

8:26 AM

@linksassin :(

BESW

There's a lot of relatively high-paying-per hour jobs like transcription and copy-editing which you can often do from home... but they're freelance, which means they're unreliable with no benefits and fierce competition from the entire world.

vicky_molokh

The freelance constant client hunt, now that's a huge downside.

BESW

I know a few people who do copy-editing as supplemental gigs.

linksassin

@BESW I can see that being worthwhile. I wouldn't want to rely on it for income but as a side gig wouldn't be too bad.

BESW

But yeah, most bigger RPG publishers pay by the word rather than by the product, tend to have more freelance writers than fulltime staff writers, and take advantage of the common "I get to write for my favorite franchise" emotional element to squeeze writers to do more work in less time for less pay than other similar industries.

Smaller RPG publishers tend to deal with their writers better, because the publishers are run by people who know first-hand how lousy a deal the writers get elsewhere.

(And indie publishers can scale their projects to their budgets more effectively, because they aren't going to get thousands of entitled gamers screaming for blood if their printing and distribution is too limited for demand--there isn't usually enough demand for that to ever be a threat, and indie consumers are usually less entitled about that sort of thing.)

V2Blast

8:35 AM

@BESW I am unsurprised

linksassin

@BESW Is there print-on-demand services for RPGs? Similar to Amazons service for books?

vicky_molokh

@linksassin I know Steve Jackson Games engages with POD to some extent.

So seems that yes.

linksassin

This is very enlightening. I honestly thought that RPG (other than the largest companies) were mostly developed and produced by the writers themselves.

BESW

@linksassin DriveThruRPG does it.

@linksassin I mean, there's itch.io and the like, but no, self-pub is a totally different beast and if you see an RPG with a print copy it's almost always through some level of publisher--even if it's self-incorporated.

linksassin

@BESW That sucks. I understand that publishers do bring value but I dislike that they have so much control over the industry. Same goes for the music industry I guess with record labels.

BESW

8:39 AM

The way I see it, there's two major problems with the RPG publishing industry right now: distribution, and distribution.

linksassin

I wish there was an effective way for consumers to show that they want a higher % of the purchase price to go back to the people that actually created the thing they are buying.

BESW

@linksassin PWYW.

linksassin

@BESW That's usually only available on indy-games etc. Though isn't it?

BESW

> Since the Pay What You Want model debuted on DriveThruRPG as part of the launch of the Fate Core PDF there this summer, I’ve been opting to track straight up the amount of money contributed rather than the number of downloads paid or otherwise: it seems to be a solid measure of success where PWYW is concerned, since we’re essentially answering the question “How much was the Fate audience willing to pay for something they could get for free?” The answer’s pretty surprising: in just a few short months, across those three products, we’ve seen people pay over $9,000 for PDF content they could…

linksassin

While I have issue with what Epic Games are doing in the PC space, I like that someone is able to disrupt the monopoly that steam had.

BESW

8:43 AM

@linksassin Oh, you mean "Is there a way to give money to companies which treat their writers badly and still get the companies to change how they treat their writers?"

kviiri

@Ben Ow... my condolences :(

BESW

...no. Welcome to capitalism, where Disney doesn't care about your feelings so long as you're going to their movies.

linksassin

@BESW No, what I mean is "is there a way to give money to the developers of the things I like, who happen to work for large companies". Or "is there a way to show large corporations I would be more likely to buy their products if they treated their staff better"

vicky_molokh

@linksassin On the former, send money to the devs' paypals? I did that at least once.

BESW

Buy stuff from companies that do.

vicky_molokh

8:47 AM

And other freelance writers have patreons or other similar monetary contribution points.

linksassin

@BESW Which circles back to my original point. "I wish there was an effective way..." How many years has it taken for the Fair Trade movement to gain any foothold at all? Even then companies still only do it to tick the box.

People who care about this represent such a small portion of the market that our voice isn't very effective.

BESW

A lot of the writers who do work for the Big Companies also do self-pub and indie work.

Check 'em out as people rather than as faceless drones for a brand.

Patronize indie pubs and fund Patreons to create a broader, healthier RPG marketplace.

linksassin

@BESW That's a good strategy. Patreon is a good platform.

BESW

I mean... Patreon's also getting increasingly exploitative, keep an eye out for creators jumping ship as soon as something better shows up.

But as pubs like Evil Hat and Grasswatch Games, and also independent creators like Jeeyon Shim and Ben Chong, can become more visible, people who are dissastisfied with Paizo/Paradox/Wizards but don't know what other options are available... will know what other options are available!

linksassin

@BESW I assume this is what you are referring too, tubefilter.com/2019/03/19/…

BESW

8:58 AM

Yeah, that's got some pretty "writing on the wall" elements that Patreon is heading toward a YouTube model of focusing on a handful of powerusers at the expense of lower-profit users.

linksassin

@BESW I also don't love their split "processing fee" and "creator fee" structure. It hides the true % they are taking.

I guess they had a good model and are captilising on it, at the expense of what made them great in the first place.

BESW

Which is... expected, that's the modern model of profit-and-burn.

linksassin

@BESW Expected but disappointing.

BESW

yes, well. The entire face of business needs a moral uplift, because America has enshrined in law the capitalist value that profit is the primary good.

2

May 13 at 13:15, by BESW

> She found herself in a state of simultaneous gratitude and fury. (She was getting used to the combination: that doubling, the strangeness of being grateful for something she should never have had to experience in the first place. Teixcalaan was full of it.)

linksassin

@BESW In some ways I hope I live to see this change. In others I hope I don't because it will mean living through one of the biggest revolutions in recent history.

BESW

9:06 AM

It's why I do everything I can to support the community-building work of the Ruhi Institute projects, because I believe it's one of our best hopes for getting humanity past this stage with minimal suffering.

There's going to be a sea change in humanity's sense that societies should prioritize *moral* decisions over *profitable* ones. The longer it takes for that change to reach critical mass the more suffering there will be, and the more that people cling to the previous priorities the more violent the change will be.
To my eyes, that means the sustainable solution is not in lobbying for change to laws (though that is absolutely necessary because it reduces suffering in the meantime) but in working at the neighbourhood level to change hearts--especially in youth, because they're less settled an…

A revolution without a sea change will just change who's in power, not the nature of the power.

But a sufficient sea change... can create change without violent revolution.

[cough] Aaaaanyway.

linksassin

I think there will be a big change when next generation reach a critical mass of leadership, at least I hope so.

BESW

9:22 AM

It's happening already, on local levels and in places where the problematic values have less entrenched systemic support, so the change can gain inertia more quickly.

linksassin

@BESW I thought so, but our federal election results showed that in places where bigotry is strong, it is getting stronger.

Anyway, as usual thanks for an interesting discussion. I have to go. Farewall all.

V2Blast

I should sleep too

BESW

I mean... I'm also looking at the world as a whole and seeing that community-building projects which are showing early fruit in places like Cambodia and Colombia and the DRC and Vanuatu, are also happening in places like America and Britain and Canada and Australia.

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For the Monastic Tradition "Way of the Four Elements" in the D&D 5e Player's Handbook (p. 80-81), some Elemental Disciplines allow the monk to spend ki points to cast a spell. For these spell disciplines, additional ki points can be spent to cast the spell at a higher level than its minimum, but...

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BESW

9:48 AM

nitsua60

@V2Blast Various contenders for site motto: chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=site+motto&room=11

V2Blast

So is "Shockingly: EXPERTS DISAGREE" the 9th proposed site motto, then? :P

user61230

Site Motto: "We've earned this consolation motto because we had years to figure out our site motto and couldn't decide."

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V2Blast

lol

kviiri

@BESW Adorable --- is it yours?

BESW

9:59 AM

@kviiri No, I found the picture on the Internet years ago and keep it in my collection of pictures for when people need the mood lightened. It's a dapple dachshund.

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