TRPG General Chat

but i don't think you can control to mounts at the some time and if i get in to combat no telling what could happen to the donkey. So my idea was to fix a grappling hook to a chain and tie the end of the chain the the donkey and just hold the hook to control the donkey, but if you get in to combat its going to be hard to hold in to that and fight. so if you do get in to combat then through the grapple in to a tree to it cant run and the bad guys can't steal it.

and then you just pick it back up when your done and continue on your way.

@Axoren yes i was

Shalvenay

12:33 AM

in D&D 3.x -- is there an amount of additional AC that's equivalent to a certain amount of DR against a given damage type, or can that translation not reasonably be made?

trogdor

Not really?

AC and DR are pretty different

One Determines if you get hit at all and the other only activates upon taking the proper damage type

They both move towards the goal of taking less damage but in ways that are quite sideways from each other

And there are ways to take damage that bypass AC but not DR

It would make slightly more sense to compare a dice roll and a coin flip

XP

Nathan Santee

im not talking about ac

trogdor

But Shalv was

Shalvenay

@NathanSantee this channel can host more than one thread of conversation at once :)

BESW

12:58 AM

I know 5e doesn't actually care about this except to whatever extent a particular GM does, but in any of my games trying to make a donkey do something it doesn't want to do will result in a Bad Time for everyone but the donkey.

trogdor

Lol

Miniman

1:18 AM

@NathanSantee How is the rest of your party dealing with this issue?

Nathan Santee

@Miniman we are all new to dnd and i just found out what weight is. So I am the only one who trying to fix this. they will probably just sell stuff because they don't have as much as a problem as i do. for example i like hunting traps and crossbows so i had 2 hunting traps 25 lb each and heavy crossbow.

which is 18 lb

I think they are going to use whatever solution I tell them to because I am the only one who knows much about weight

Ben

As BESW mentioned, encumbrance isn't really enforced in 5e. Groups only use it if they want to. There's nothing to say that you have to.

Nathan Santee

ya but if you don't you can carry everything ez

Ben

@NathanSantee Again... Only if you want to. In my games we never really had more than our basic equipment. Weapons, armour, camping gear if needed.

That said, there are some magical items you can use to assist as well - Like the Bag of Holding

roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Bag%20of%20Holding#content

Nathan Santee

1:34 AM

price?

Ben

Usually it's dungeon loot, but an uncommon item is usually 100 gp

Nathan Santee

we are all new and don't know anything about magic

Ben

For a beginners perspective, there's not much you need to know, unless you have a caster in the group.

In regards to the Bag of Holding all you need to know is that is holds up to 500 pounds, not exceeding a volume of 64 cubic feet.

How it does that can be just explained with...

Nathan Santee

is there a list of magic itims

Ben

Yes, in the DMG

feature-request auto-collapsing gifs. After a period of time (maybe 30 secs at most) a gif will automatically revert to the URL instead

2

BESW

1:52 AM

@Ben Or import the features that chats like Discord and WhatsApp use, where the gif doesn't animate unless clicked on/moused over.

Ben

Indeed. Lol

trogdor

2:17 AM

Hehe

Or just hand the whole site to pure chaos and just only communicate in gifs

You decide

Ben

Someone said something about using emojis in chat... that sparked something.

So be careful what you wish for

trogdor

Sparked what?

Delicious delicious chaos?

I'd go with "Spite"

Ah

😛

2:20 AM

Much less palatable

Horrible for digestion

@Ben must,.... Kill

XD

Ben

That said, I daresay that even the most mischievous of us would likely regret a feed full of gifs, very quickly.

trogdor

2:40 AM

Yeah

The secret is I like to pretend to be an agent of chaos

It's not really a great constant state of affairs though

KorvinStarmast

3:01 AM

I think we are being trolledand I bit.

More than once

Ben

@KorvinStarmast I'm not entirely sure about that. They did come to discuss it in chat

Not that specifically. But the extension of that

KorvinStarmast

@Ben All I am going to say is that my trolldar is flashing... but no worries, I have been wrong before.

Ben

@KorvinStarmast Lok'tar ogar

Sorry... "Trolldar" triggered that response haha

Ben

3:24 AM

Anyone with search-fu… looking for a question about players complaining about game events

KorvinStarmast

@Ben The pack train question and the comments under d7's excellent answer only confirm my feeling.

Ben

@KorvinStarmast Could be, or it could be just their deductive reasoning. I have met a few people like that.

KorvinStarmast

@Ben No, the pattern of behavior is troll. That's my take.

One has to go out of one's way to be obtuse to come up with some of the responses.

BESW

Flag suspected trolls with a custom mod message asking them to keep an eye on the user.

2

KorvinStarmast

@BESW yeah, good call.

Ben

3:27 AM

A player in my group once complained about the efficacy of two people winding a rope around something.

Even after demonstrating the act of doing so, they still weren't convinced that it would be applicable to the situation.

BESW

Personally, I found their quickness to take offense at not having immediate responses in chat to be more troll-suggestive than the content of their questions, but it's not our job to figure this stuff out or deal with it; it's our job to alert the mods.

Ben

Not to undercut the current convo... I have a friend talking to me about a player complaining about in-game events, and meta gaming, and generally complaining about everything. So I just want to link them a couple of posts about how to deal with the topic for them to read.

BESW

I'm not sure what the topic is, from that description.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW There are a wide variety of styles of trolling, in my 30+ years of experiencing stuff on the internet. Your points are noted, and not disagreed. Mod alert has been sent.

Ben

Players complaining about "unfair" outcomes might be a start?

KorvinStarmast

3:34 AM

@Ben No, unfair is a common response to bad stuff happening.

A lot of people IRL have a delusion that life is fair. It isn't, I regret to report, but efforts at trying to make life closer to fair are worth putting effort into.

BESW

I think what we need to know, in order to provide useful references, is what events he's complaining about--not how he's interpreting them.

"Meta gaming," "unfair," etc, are terms that can equally apply to "I don't like the thing" and "there is a genuine problem here," because they're diagnosing causes rather than describing symptoms.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW Have you read the questions and comments presented by this user in the past 12 hours? I have, and I have answered some of them. Just sayin' that Spidey Sense is tingling.

@BESW Oooh, yeah, nicely put.

Ben

I'll need to get a few examples

From them to give to you*

BESW

Ysplz.

trogdor

@BESW I had the impression at the time that they were just used to a forum structure, and maybe was used to one that had fast responses even

But that could have been the wrong impression too

BESW

3:45 AM

@Ben I suspect they may benefit more from a compassionate conversation with someone who listens carefully to their problems and facilitates a dialogue about play expectations, group communication, and probably helps them analyze some toxic learned assumptions about what defines "good" or "bad" play.

Ben

Ok, so one example was the player wanted to buy a sling. The group had a shared pot, so they were all discussing what was/wasn't necessary. The group agreed that the sling wasn't necessary, and was going to be more expensive. So she made a big deal out of it "Well fine, if I have to pay more than fine. Don't worry about it"

Then later the PC just stood by while the rest of the party fought a beast, stating that she couldn't contribute, due to not having her sling.

BESW

Oh, that's... not good.

It means the rest of the group is playing for efficiency over fun.

Which... might indicate a history of harsh GMs who set narrow margins of failure and then punish characters who don't pass them.

Ben

She did have other weapons to use

BESW

Oh, sure, and the passive-aggressive behavior isn't good.

Ben

It might be worthwhile getting it from both sides. I do support the whole "a game is meant to be fun for everyone"

BESW

3:48 AM

But it was sparked by the rest of the group prioritizing their play goals (efficient use of resources) over whatever play goals prompted her to want the sling.

(I realize I'm being an armchair group therapist here and could be completely wrong.)

Ben

Another situation was that a conversation wasn't going the way the player intended, stating that "they should be listening to children" (the PCs are all children), as though they were comparing it to real life

BESW

So, definitely some playstyle expectation mismatching.

Ben

@BESW It is difficult to see the big picture through a hole in the fence

BESW

And it sounds like all the voices being heard are assuming their expectations are the only/normal/default/correct ones.

Ben

If there is some posts that address it from both sides, that would definitely be helpful

Mike Q

3:52 AM

@BESW I think this is an issue in my game as well, and why I don't seem to enjoy GMing D&D/PF anymore. Unsure if it's a system problem, a player problem, or a me problem.

BESW

Certainly some systems push for or against that playstyle more or less hard.

Mike Q

My veteran players seem to be accustomed to a cautious and reactive playstyle. The GM describes what's in front of them, they make optimal choices to roll big numbers, and rinse and repeat.

BESW

And individuals/groups will act as if it's the only possible way to play.

Mike Q

As a consequence, I feel like they're afraid to be proactive or creative. They avoid anything that does not optimize their combat effectiveness (primarily, damage and defense)

BESW

Sounds like some classic OSR10FPP.

Ben

3:55 AM

Oh, if it's relevant this is 5e

Mike Q

@Ben Yep. The "optimize or die" design is inherent in most variants of D&D, which is why veteran players tend to assume it, even at the expense of fun.

BESW

17

A: Why does everyone carry a 10' pole?

It would seem that in the old days of the hobby, traps were plentiful and very deadly, and a ten-foot pole was your best means of detecting said traps. I deduce their popularity mostly from reading about traps that punish you for using one in Grimtooth's Traps. You know something is popular if ...

There are plenty of systems which can help snap folks out of that mindset.

But, well. Even back when all I ever did was D&D 3.5, it helped a lot to just start a campaign by talking with the players about my style and goals.

Ben

A good "talk to them" answer would also be good.

actually...

BESW

Saying things like "I'm a fan of your characters, I want to help you tell great stories with them, and so I'm not out to kill them; I'm going to be giving your characters challenges so they can overcome them because that's how stories work" went a LONG way to helping.

Mike Q

@BESW That's a good way to put it (compared to "You're not being creative enough" which I'm sure would go poorly)

I will try that

Ben

4:00 AM

31

Q: Player complaining about "Kill stealing"

One of our players (our Fighter) has started complaining about "kill stealing". Not overly much, like throwing a tantrum or anything, but they're still voicing their opinion about it. Some instances of this: The group were fighting a monster in a dark cave. After a brief game of cat and mouse,...

BESW

Take your pick: "talk to" or "talk with."

With

Both?

Actually yeah both

Both. Because I suspect my veteran players may prefer the reactive, cautious, number-crunching playstyle, which I find very boring and not worth GMing. So I want to take that option off the table.

Ben

4:02 AM

With is good, because then everyone can learn... but that can also lead to the player being singled out and feeling like they're being attacked

BESW

56

A: How should I deal with metagaming?

I'm going to make one critical assumption about your gaming group. If it's untrue, I don't know if my answer will be helpful: The friendship of the people at the table is more important than the game you're playing. Going forward I'm assuming you're all friends foremost, and you play games as a f...

Mike Q

"Talk to" is also good to some extent, because it has a direction and keeps the discussion from spiraling out of control

BESW

> The way to handle this situation is to treat it as the social challenge it is, rather than a game problem. Have a group discussion about playstyle and goals. Hold it outside of play time, maybe over a meal. And since nobody in the group, GM or not, can order other people how to have fun, the discussion needs to be one in which friends are working out how to have fun together.

Ben

@MikeQ indeed

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ That is a 3e and later thing. We didn't optimize in 1e, as there wasn't a means to. You made the best with the char you rolled up.

Mike Q

4:08 AM

I don't know enough about pre-3e mechanics to really say

All I know is I don't enjoy GMing combats in 3.x/PF anymore, because it's a bit tedious to manage with all the numbers flying around, and most of the time, the players just give me more numbers to crunch. That's not fun for me.

KorvinStarmast

@Ben Ben, if someone in a D&D game complains about kill stealing, they are importing CRPG norms into a TTRPG.

Ben

@KorvinStarmast crpg/ttrpg?

BESW

Computer RPG vs TableTop RPG.

KorvinStarmast

Computer games versus table top role playing games, Ben.

Ben

Ah

KorvinStarmast

4:10 AM

I have been in a variety of on line computer games where some (censored) goes off at someone about kill stealing.

Ben

Yes that's why it's "Kill stealing" cos I couldn't think of a more relevant name for it.

Mike Q

Kill stealing could exist in a ttrpg, in theory

KorvinStarmast

If anyone at a D&D game, particularly 5e, ever raises "kill steal" while I am at the table, I will not be slow to correct them. 5e tried (not sure if it is totally successful) to get that kind of "it's me" versus "it's the team" toned down if not removed.

Ben

I have experienced that. FPS games primarily where the aim of the game is to kill everyone, and that is how you are scored. Whereas in ttrpg it's less relevant

Mike Q

I'm not aware of any specific ttrpgs with such mechanics, although a particularly (censored) GM could give bonus XP based on such criteria

KorvinStarmast

4:13 AM

@Ben Try a MOBA like League of Legends .... it's a running source of hate.

Ben

However, in the situations I listed, I can imagine that they're feeling stripped of their "glory" moments

@KorvinStarmast I actively avoid such games. Lol

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ Some of the early RPG's like EPT actually had rules text along the lines of "killing blow is only person who gets XP." I kid you not.

Ben

In truth lately I have been playing 1p games...

Mike Q

@Ben Yes, more generally, you could have a player character who tends to dominate in combat and upstage the others, which may be frustrating to other players who wanted more of an impact

Ben

An Minecraft. Lol

BESW

4:14 AM

@MikeQ 3.x hinted at it, if you read some of the XP rules literally.

KorvinStarmast

The groups I played in ALWAYS shared XP. We were team oriented. it was our norm. I was stunned to run across groups that didn't do that.

BESW

As I recall, there's some discussion of not giving XP to players who didn't participate in combat, which if interpreted very strictly can mean that if you're not alive at the end of combat you don't get the XP, no matter how much you participated beforehand.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW Yeah,saw that too.

Ben

I personally hve never experienced that style of XP play. We usually always play by milestone, with the occasional "beg for more xp" by listing of cool things you did.

Mike Q

@BESW It's even worse when it creates a positive feedback loop

BESW

4:18 AM

Yuuup.

@Ben I've come to love systems where XP, if it exists, isn't a linear leveling currency.

Ben

The one game we did that, it was actually a group activity, because players would list things off that they believed other players should be rewarded for too. Was a group activity and really enforced that "team" mentality

BESW

Yeah, GSS is great for that.

Ben

Ours was DH

Oh... just while there are peeps here... Anyone familiar with Savage Worlds?

KorvinStarmast

@Ben Yeah, players offering to the DM / GM why another player/PC ought to get XP is a neat thing, when it happens. @BESW your point on currency: yeah, it's systemic, and there are other ways to do it. (Or have a non leveling system, like Traveller)

Nite all, sweet dreams.

Mike Q

15

Q: Are there negative impacts to having characters advance at different rates?

It's my first time running a campaign (D&D 3.5), and I'm trying to figure out how to assign XP to the players. I am used to playing in games where everyone gets exactly the same XP, whether they attended the game or not. I have played in at least one game where someone would show up every coupl...

dnd-3.5e gm-techniques experience-points

Related to the XP discussion, and another reason why TTRPGs shouldn't necessary be played like CRPGs

kviiri

5:37 AM

One of my first GMs was adamant that only present players could get XP. In DnD 4e, even, where level differences are far more keenly feltm

One of my first GMs was adamant that only present players could get XP. In DnD 4e, even, where level differences are far more keenly felt.

Ben

Brushed metal texture done by my friend

kviiri

4e has no bounded accuracy so lower level characters don't just deal pathetic damage, they stop hitting altogether except for very lucky rolls.

@Ben I don't know much about art but I like it

trogdor

@kviiri this person must be punished XD

kviiri

@trogdor They have been, indirectly. For a variety of other reasons including Hearthstone at the table, he's a bit of a persona non grata nowadays. We're still friends outside the game though

trogdor

Mm

kviiri

5:47 AM

I've more lately started thinking it's just that DnD isn't a good fit for him

trogdor

Probably

DND gots problems yo

kviiri

Too slow paced, too many minute rules, and too boring axe maniacs :)

He likes playing as beefy warriors but they're kinda boring in DnD outside 4e

Ben

@kviiri Axe maniacs are fun. I had one friend that used to play the dex character... thieves and the like

They recently chose to play the Barb... should have seen the look in their eyes as they murdered that first goblin in one swing haha

kviiri

@Ben Sure, the first one is fun, but a dozen sessions later when one still can't do anything but "I hit it with my axe"... it gets old.

Or as a barb, "I hit it with my axe - RECKLESSLY!"

Ben

He did take a blood rager - so a Barb/caster

Just to keep things interesting

kviiri

5:54 AM

I've advertised The Faceless of Apocalypse World to him as an alternative way to experience the axe maniac

I think that might quench his thirst for doting out punishment

Ben

I did a similar thing with my 5e Minotaur Storm Barb. He has a lot of different ways to deal damage.

@kviiri ?

kviiri

@Ben The Faceless is a playbook (roughly, a class) of Apocalypse World. Very roughly summarized, they're the barbarian of AW - hard and nasty through force of will more than discipline or superior training or gear.

Ben

I see. Interesting..

kviiri

They have a couple of interesting moves, like "OH YEAH!" which basically allows them to storm through walls or other obstacles :)

Ben

Hahaha

Sounds appropriate

kviiri

6:05 AM

apocalypse-world.com/ApocalypseWorldExtendedPlaybooks2ndEd.pdf

It's the first playbook of that pdf

Ben

Very Vinnie Jones haha

kviiri

And now for something completely different, a little fun thing I found yesterday

V2Blast

Question: does a player get access to a class spell list if they only have one level in that class and that class is a Half-caster class? (So they don't have the Spellcasting feature.)
My inclination is that the answer is no, and I seem to recall a Sage Advice tweet (or maybe a question here) saying as much, but I can't find it.

BESW

The answer was "yes" in 3.x, but friends don't let friends cite 3.x as precedent.

kviiri

There's a WWII strategy game Hearts of Iron 4, which has a mod called Kaiserreich which is an alt history where Germany won the Great War and stayed a mighty imperial power at the expense of the UK and France, as well as Russia.

In Kaiserreich there's a little joking event about an in-universe alt-history book where Germany lost the Great War, and a disgruntled soldier Adam Dressler sets up a revanchist regime against the West and Socialist Russia, culminating in an even greater war. In-universe the book is considered a stupid, unbelievable fantasy, but it does sound oddly familiar.

...and so, yesterday I learned that there's also a mod project, Führerreich, which is the "what if Germany had lost the Great War" from the KR in-universe perspective.

I don't know who did it, but I really dig their style.

@V2Blast Wait, which system is this?

Helwar

6:47 AM

@kviiri a what if of a what if

kviiri

@Helwar Yeah, I love the idea (haven't actually tried FR yet though)

Helwar

14 years ago, i had a friend that was crazy about Hearts of Iron 4. Let that sink through: 14 years ago!

trogdor

7:04 AM

@BESW ok I guess I have to stop you now? :P

7:27 AM

@BESW eh?

It's a bad pun.

@Helwar That's... quite long considering the game was released in 2016

Helwar

@kviiri the what? Might not be 4 then.... I remember it being IV though..............

I might be very wrong

but it was a Hearts of Iron, nonetheless.

WHatever it was

kviiri

I hyped HoI 4 a lot

Sadly it came out wrong :(

V2Blast

7:46 AM

@kviiri 5e.

hence the mention of Sage Advice tweets. dunno if any other system has that by that name

:P

@Helwar HoI 3 came out in 2009

Hearts of Iron 2 came out in 2005, and Hearts of Iron 1 came out in 2002

kviiri

@V2Blast So what are these Half-Casters you're referring to?

I mean, I've heard the term refer to classes like Paladins and Rangers, but they all do have Spellcasting feature in 5e. The only class with a spell list that doesn't is the Warlock.

Hence my confusion :P

Helwar

8:12 AM

In 5e you have Full Casters (wizard, sorcerer, cleric, druid, bard, etc..) that have 9 levels of spells, half-casters (paladin, ranger, i-can't-think-of-more-but-there-are-more, etc...) that usually have 5 levels of spells, and 1/3 casters (eldritch knight and arcane trickster come to mind, i'm sure there are more), that are weird, have incomplete spell-lists and only a few levels

kviiri

@Helwar Yes but my confusion stems from this

2 hours ago, by V2Blast

Question: does a player get access to a class spell list if they only have one level in that class and that class is a Half-caster class? (So they don't have the Spellcasting feature.)
My inclination is that the answer is no, and I seem to recall a Sage Advice tweet (or maybe a question here) saying as much, but I can't find it.

They do have the Spellcasting feature

Hence my confusion about which classes you were referring to

Helwar

8:30 AM

oh, my bad

now i just nerd-splained something that you already knew, I'm a jerk :P

Miniman

@kviiri Not at level 1, though.

So his question is, do you have a spell list before you have the Spellcasting class feature.

trogdor

9:02 AM

that is weird

kviiri

9:29 AM

Ah, haa! That explains the confusion

Kudos to Miniman

@Helwar Honest mistake though :) and it's actually a lot clearer now

Colin Gross

1:13 PM

Coffee? Tea? 5 minutes in a walk in freezer?

Rubiksmoose

2:34 PM

Random question, can you hold a spell cast from a scroll ?(dnd5e)

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose don't see why not

same spellcasting rules should apply

i think there's a Q&A...

6

Q: How does using a scroll function when using the Ready action

A character has a scroll and wishes to use it if a certain event occurs in a combat round. Can that character take the Ready action and state "I will read the scroll if…?" Or must he begin reading the scroll to cast the spell and say "I will complete casting the spell if…", thus being forced to...

dnd-5e magic-items

Sir Cinnamon

The comment on the top answer to that asks exactly your question moose

But its unanswered there

Rubiksmoose

Good pull.

Sir Cinnamon

Unless the casting time > 1 action

Rubiksmoose

Interesting. Looks like I'll make a Q&A. It's curious because you're not using Cast a Spell and I'm not sure if that matters at all.

ravery

2:47 PM

hello

rpg.stackexchange.com/a/132096/42354 Is my wording in the first sentence unclear, or is the commenter reading half the sentence and jumping to conclusions?

NautArch

@ravery Honestly, sentence breakdown for parts of speech isn't my forte. Post it on english.stackexchange.com?

Colin Gross

Grammar is tough for English speakers due to it's origins in the Plane of Chaos.

I think it adds insanity for non-native English speakers, but that's just a rumor I heard from some people talking about greater restoration.

NautArch

@ravery But I think your statement on pronouns always refer to the closest noun may be false

ravery

@ColinGross schools also haven't explicitly taught true grammar for many years.

Sir Cinnamon

Personally I'm more swayed by the whole "If it activates on any critical hit why would it say 'when you kill with a critical hit' as well"

Colin Gross

2:53 PM

Awww... no sentence diagrams looking like trees?

ravery

see you for got the second condition "that serve the same gramatical function"

Colin Gross

I think when you diagram the example sentence of the commenter, the subject is still the nearest noun.

ravery

the statement is "colsest noun that serves the sme function"

**closest

Sir Cinnamon

Should that GWM question have the barbarian tag?

NautArch

@ravery and I don't think that's true. From a very quick google search, pronouns must simply refer to something earlier and must agree in gender and number.

Rubiksmoose

2:55 PM

I see what you're saying. And it makes sense. I don't have the expertise to say that you are right in every case, but you seem on solid ground given the examples thus far.

Sir Cinnamon

I guess GWM is a feature gained from being a barbarian.... but it's on several classes

ravery

he is specifically asking about a barbarian, but the feat could be for other clases

NautArch

@SirCinnamon It's a feat. Just happens to be asked in relation to the player's barbarian.

Sir Cinnamon

Oh right, its not even a fighting style

Rubiksmoose

I think people are just missing or misunderstanding the "same function" part, but I'm not sure that is the fault of how you wrote it.

Sir Cinnamon

2:56 PM

So it shouldnt have that tag right?

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon correct. I don't think it should.

NautArch

@SirCinnamon right, no tag.

Sir Cinnamon

I'll remove it

NautArch

@SirCinnamon the bonus-action tag may be a good one to include, though.

Colin Gross

@ravery I added a link to a different stack that should clarify for the commenter

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