4e had absolutely ridiculous math esp. before MM3. Monsters would have over a thousand HP on higher levels but damages still remained roughly in the L1 order of magnitude
They're quite varied in 4e. Eg. The Warlord has a ton of abilities that allow them to forgo their attack to let an ally attack in their stead, with a variety of bonus effects to tack on
One of the more powerful Warlord powers involved every ally adjacent to an enemy getting to make a melee basic attack against the enemy
The Rogue has some fun powers too, eg. a daily power that allows them to move up to their speed and every enemy they provoke an opportunity attack from instead targets themself
In a similar vein, another power allows them to attempt redirecting enemy attacks towards other nearby enemies
bloody path is just a real bad offender because its inherent design says "the more competent you are at fighting, the more likely you are to hurt yourself when this rogue runs by you"
“Derailed”. You are a trained psychologist called to the scene of action: A dangerous terrorist is about to pull the lever and have a full traway trolley run over a dozen people. He is in deep conversation about the morality of this with a colleague. Can you subtly derail their conversation long enough that they forget to pull the lever in time?
@nitsua60 you might want to keep an eye on the comments under this question as it is already becoming help pile central. I have removed my comments to help.
(the things I said in my comments had since been said again by others so they were redundant.)
@Rubiksmoose I have to run to a faculty meeting soon so won't be able to do much, but I see the flag you raised--good move. Now all of us will check in on it occasionally. And thanks for de-helping where possible =)
@Carcer I understand and agree. I just picked it as an example on a whim, as a demonstration that Martial powers don't need to be the usual super mundane stuff but can be more... exotic too
Like, uh... there's usually a bit of a problem with Wizards, Warlocks, Druids etc being Obviously capable of all kinds of weirdly powerful stuff, while Rogues, Rangers and Fighters are expected to be just particularly talented muggles. The variety in powers helped even that gap in 4e.
The magic/martial split is still there. Do you want to be magic, and have a daily supply of realism-breaking coupons? Or do you want to be boring and worry about feat combinations just so you can hold your weapons in a unique way?
@MikeQ Yeah. My ideal system has much more condensed character options with the complexity presenting in a realistic way. It takes many levels to master a weapon or a type of spell. A 5th level wizard has just fireball (and some weak versions of other spells that he's practicing). A 5th level fighter is a master of the sword and is just a little better than a regular soldier at the other weapons.
One of the recurring issues with the editions of D&D that I've played, is that there isn't consensus about how fantastical the world should be. Realism is selective.
@MikeQ I like fantastical enemies (like dragons and demons) with more mundane heroes (if you want to be a wizard, it'll take some work, and becoming world altering should take decades)
@doppelgreener Yes, that's how I want to see it too. If a legendary wizard can chant a single spell that lights a house on fire, then the non-wizards of that level should be equally legendary. The legendary thief can pick any pocket, or escape any prison. The legendary warrior can keep fighting because they refuse to fall.
@MikeQ yeah. Some of my favorite magic in fiction is when the wizard has to think. Is this spell worth casting with the risk to my health/the being's power Im conjuring might break through/the risk to others/ the cosmic balance
It's just hard to implement when players don't have the same connection to the world as their characters do
40k has a good approach. You use magic, there are side effects. You use too much magic, you tear the fabric of spacetime and let the demons in. Gameplay-wise, this means that the casters still have the potential to do crazy stuff, but it's a riskier playstyle that requires planning and judgment.
In Shadowcraft, spells always work. You roll to see if the power of the spell warps your mind and body in ways that are probably actually pretty cool and useful. But if you change too much, the source of magic you tap into will take you over and turn you into an NPC. To prevent this, you spend time in activities that reaffirm your own identity and overcome the warping.
@MikeQ trouble is, players might want to let the demons in if they're not as invested in the world (for the added challenge or because they just don't care). Once they stop playing that character, many consequences are meaningless whereas a real wizard living in that world has to live there the rest of his life
@MikeQ the original implementation of that in DH still has issues because even the most minor use of a psyker ability risks tearing a hole in reality and letting the demons in
@DavidCoffron There's a few issues with that. One, players can let the demons in. It happens. Two, the issue of "an uninvested player could spoil the campaign for everyone else" is applicable to most other systems.
In DFRPG, you make two rolls: one to gather the necessary power and one to control it. If you want to create an effect that requires more power than you can gather or control, you can get bonuses by doing the spell in a particular place or time, or with particular materials. The harder it is to get the thing, the bigger the bonus it gives you.
If you fail to gather the necessary power, the spell either fizzles or you have to take a compromised version of it. If you fail to control the power... well, the power has been called and it has to go somewhere and the only choice you have is "do I contain the uncontrolled power and narrate how it burns through me, or do I release the power and have the GM narrate how it burns through the local environment?"
OTOH, DH's system as written does resonate with the game's lore quite well, and WFRP/W40KRP have always had a very grim "bad things will happen by random chance, that is the world" vibe to them
In Don't Rest Your Head, characters are insomniacs who have stayed awake so long they've fallen into a mad world stalked by nightmares where their sleep-deprived hallucinations become superpowers.
Using ordinary "things a human can do" abilities makes you more tired, and if you sleep the nightmares will get you. Using your insomnia superpowers pushes you closer to madness, and if you tip over the edge you BECOME your nightmare.
In practice I found the mechanics a little clunky and the default setting a bit too cute. But a solid concept nonetheless!
I've only done one session of it, and that was nested inside another, longer Fate-based game.
All the PCs were on a spaceship traveling to their next adventure, so we had a Horror In Space episode and translated the characters from Fate to DYRH for it.
We changed the timeline and then changed it back, re-inflicted childhood trauma on a PC, turned the boat into a Victorian hellscape and back, and although we reset most everything, the mental trauma's still there. Also a handful of Atlantean vandals and the cultist nemesis of one of the PCs are on the ship now and they weren't before.
This was "the Weirdness of outer space has caused the dreams of our Victorian-engineer's-brain-in-a-box PC to take over the ship, and the neuroses of the other PCs are manifesting as superpowers."
I do have a holodeck campaign concept, but it's actually "trouble without a holodeck."
This question:
Party betrayal in an evil campaign
was put on hold as too broad.
On the other hand, this one wasn't:
How can I handle players who want to browse shops at random?
In both cases, they both boil down to asking for suggestions as to how to handle something in-game. In both cases,...
@BESW I ran a campaign that yours reminded me of. Based off a game I played a long time ago, an almighty, immortal lich put himself into a coma due to depression, and he was so magical his dreams created its own reality. The players were creations in his dreams and they adventured like normal adventurers in an odd world. They would eventually find hints of the "reality" of their lives, and even find remnants of his own mind exploring his dreams.
I saw a tweet describing Netflix's Danny Rand as "A stoned college freshman who just read a book on Japanese philosophy," and I thought "Ahah! This is also my problem with The Talos Principle."
My wife and I have a sort of competition when it comes to movies. She tries to get me to enjoy some chick flik, I try to get her to enjoy an action-murder fest.
@BESW fun thing i learned about that: "whelmed" was originally just the word for when a boat was being flooded because of bad weather, or being outright capsized. then people started saying overwhelmed as a superlative form, and that caught on as an expression. then because there was overwhelmed, people started saying underwhelmed as an expression, even though nobody would've said that in the original nautical context (boats aren't underwhelmed, they're just not whelmed).
This question:
Party betrayal in an evil campaign
was put on hold as too broad.
On the other hand, this one wasn't:
How can I handle players who want to browse shops at random?
In both cases, they both boil down to asking for suggestions as to how to handle something in-game. In both cases,...
