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19:00
@LukeSommers I have no idea. It's your homebrew class. What I'm suggesting is a frequency limitation as a way to avoid the "bag of rats" exploit
user357094
@NautArch Idk, honestly just going to delete it since it is such a mess. I think I need to think about how to ask it more before I post it again.
The Rage like effect could be called something like Blood Rush, but instead of rage, it's access to spellcasting?
Something like
@AVeryLargeBear You actually can't delete it I believe since it has answers.
Might be wrong there though.
user357094
@Rubiksmoose right you are ;)
19:01
> Magic hemophilia: When you take 1 or more damage from a single source, you may regain a number of spell points equal to amount of HP lost. Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you take a short or long rest.
@AVeryLargeBear You can request the mods to close it though.
@MikeQ That would let them be able to take damage and basically regain all their spell slots, since they don't have many
Do multiple beams of a single Eldritch blast or multiple missiles of a Magic missile count as a single source?
@LukeSommers Good catch. Then limit it further.
Perhaps every 3 damage from a single source?
19:03
> You may regarin a number of spell points equal to the amount of HP lost, up to your hemomancer level
as a possible limitation
Well, let's see. It's one SP per 1st level spell. At third level, you'd only need to take 3 damage to regain 3 spell slots.
I definitely wouldn't do 1:1 unless you are going to severely cap their max.
That's why I'm thinking 3:1 once per short or long rest
Actually, probablt more like 4-5:1
probably*
You could also make it comparable to arcane recovery (or whatever it's called, the thing that wizards get)
5:1, once per short rest, regain only up to hemomancer level
19:08
@MikeQ That's a neat idea.
@LukeSommers I'd heavily consider Long Rest.
Alright, long rest then.
I'm not sure if I really like the idea of having to expend a long rest -limited resource (HP) to gain another long rest -limited resource (spells). Seems like a tough equation to balance
@AVeryLargeBear FWIW, unless you find a good example I'm not sure you're going to get any good answers to this question even if you open a new one.
The question is, is this a combat character that is also a spellcaster, or a spellcaster that also does combat.
@NautArch I'm kind of fumbling in the dark here. I don't really design homebrew mechanics that players can use.
19:09
Combat that also does spellcasting
Start spellcasting at level 3?
I personally wouldn't ever design a decidedly non-combat character for DnD. It's inviting bad time.
@kviiri You mean you wouldn't enjoy my homebrew "Shopkeeper" class?
@kviiri Are you suggesting that perhpas D&D is very combat focused ;)
@MikeQ hahaha
@MikeQ Quite likely so :P
(at least in ADOM merchant class gets bonuses to hurling gold coins!)
I'd also suggest making it key off of melee damage and not ranged.
19:13
You know, Compelled Duel would make sense for the Hemomancer to have
@NautArch Got it
Just to reinforce that this is a frontline class.
@Rubiksmoose Yeah, and that while "it's ok for me to suck in combat if that means I dominate everything else" might be balanced in some sense, it's not likely to be very fun :>
Now that I think about it, don't the 5e splat books have Barbarian archetypes that get magic-esque stuff?
There's Ancestral Guardian, which can cast IIRC
What, going in a trance where nothing hurts much isn't magical enough? :)
19:22
Blood Rush: Once per long rest, you can regain a number of spell points (SP) which is equal to 1 SP for every 5 damage you take from a single source. The damage must be from a melee attack. Multiple melee attacks from the same source count for this.
@LukeSommers This would require one to record and/or remember how much damage from how many sources they took for the entire adventuring day. Not a game-breaking issue but certainly a practical one.
Agreed. Spell points are confusing enough.
I was once writing a roguelike where blood magic wasn't cast from hit points, but by bottling monster corpses. Blood increased in potency as creatures became mightier: beasts < humans < nobles (blue blood!) < unicorns < demons < dragons, and also was supposed to have bonuses to a particular field of magic (eg. healing for unicorn blood).
@Rubiksmoose Perhaps it would be a reaction to to taking damage, similar to Hellish Rebuke?
But that's not a good system for DnD-likes without additional twists.
19:24
Tbh you already have a d8 melee character that would heavily invest in CON, and can use CON to cast spells. That by itself is pretty good.
@MikeQ Which?
Well, instead of giving a complicated mechanic for regaining spells, why not just... give it more spells?
Meaning?
@LukeSommers A reaction is a neat idea. But I'd definitely make it something you do on an attack and not an accumulation of damage over time.
Oh, I'm dumb. I'd rather not give it more spells, it's meant to be a mostly combat focused clase rather than casting.
19:28
Hm. What if instead of damage translating to more spells, it translated to more powerful spells? So instead of regaining spell points, you could, say, cast using a higher slot?
@NautArch Sorry, I'm bad at explaining. It's not an accumulation of damage. Say something attacks you and deals 6 damage. If you choose to use your use of Blood Rush for that, you'd regain one SP. There's no accumulation. Damage from a single enemy doing melee damage in one round.
@MikeQ Perhaps, but how would I balance that?
@LukeSommers Gotcha. I definitely like the Reaction idea and also limiting how many times you can do it. This kinda feels like we're doing a wizard/sorcerer/warlock/paladin/barbarian mashup :)
"Let's add spellcasting and screaming, that'll work."
@LukeSommers No idea. If the theme is to use their own blood to fuel their magic, then maybe they can make themselves bleed, like the Flagellant from Darkest Dungeon. Whenever they're bleeding, they get magical benefits?
Bleeding is a thing in 5e, right?
@MikeQ variant rule
19:35
@MikeQ Perhaps, I still think it might be simpler if we give SP/slots for max HP, then can get them back through taking damage.
Rather than SP, wouldn't it be easier to use slots? We just have to change the equation a bit.
At 3rd level, Once per long rest, if you take 5 damage from a melee attack from a single source in one round, you can use your reaction to regain a first level spell slot. Starting at 7th level, if you take 15 damage from a melee attack from a single source in one round, you can use your reaction to regain a second level spell slot.
13th level, 3rd level slot, 35 damage
I still prefer a Shopkeeper/Innkeeper homebrew class
Action to give exposition
Reaction to buy or sell
Once per long rest, restock wares
Proficiency with buildings
Resistance to haggling?
19:52
@LukeSommers That's one of the archetypes. When you have advantage on the haggle, you can increase the price by 1d6 for every odd-numbered level
@MikeQ Nice
They also get Tax Evasion at 3rd level
That should be another subcalss, Mobster
subclass*
Also, is there a chart for CR vs character level?
Fun fact: In the chat, after sending a message, you can press the Up Arrow to edit your most recent messages. (Like this.)
@MikeQ Thank you. Now I see.
19:55
Neat
@LukeSommers There's a chart in the DMG, but it's not directly CR vs character level. More like weighed sum of enemy CRs multiplied by a scale factor depending on the number of monsters.
@kviiri Thanks. I'm trying to figure out how much damage the Hemomancer should take at certain levels.
Which in a 1 on 1 works out to around PC level/4 = CR
as a rule of thumb
but even then thats assuming you face several of those per day so theres both single encounter resources and daily resources
Now this is a bit harder, Cause I want to make it an amount of damage that means something, but these deal less damage than I thought...
@NautArch I found a handy JC tweet that suggests that modifying monsters' equipment is not really homebrewing. Also will be handy for answering that weretiger question. twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1019749947023929344
20:03
@Rubiksmoose I think it's a stretch to look at modification of equipment to addition of Armor and all that entails. THat's effectively adjusting a stat and not just carrying stuff.
Looks like average damage would be about 14 for CR 3, which would be with a 1 v 1 for a 13th level character, which doesn't seem right
So now my thesis code uses a 32 bit integer to encode sets of 5 bit integers.
@LukeSommers L13 characters will be facing much higher CRs too
Isn't it PC level /4?
@NautArch But equipment is just suggested? I don't understand what you are saying actually.
@LukeSommers For 1-on-1, that's a fairly accurate assessment... but 1-on-1 is a rather academic concern for most games of DnD.
20:06
How large is an average group of players? 5 people?
And the damage has to come from a single enemy in one round
@Rubiksmoose I'm saying that having a monster carry different miscellaneous equipment is different than having a weapon with a different damage die or armor with different AC. Those are changing the stats of the monster and potentially the CR.
@LukeSommers Do you mean "what CR is my level X PC?"
@LukeSommers I think the default assumption is a 4 PC group, covering the warrior/skillmonkey/mage/healer roles.
@Rubiksmoose "A stat block rarely refers to equipment, other than
armor or weapons used by a monster."
If so, there's no way it's X/4. A party of 4 L4s is not going to find a L16 PC a "medium" encounter.
I'd give better-than even odds on a TPK in that scenario.
20:09
No, I mean what CR monster should a level, let's say 13 character be fighting.
@LukeSommers Single character?
I just need the damage to be from a single source, but let's say Party of 4 L13 PCs.
Huh, that's an interesting conundrum with the class design - they'll lose out on one of their key features if the encounter is too easy, or if the party plays tactically and prevents incoming damage
@MikeQ Which makes sense, right?
Well, making sense is rather subjective at times. I still think it's rather hard to start doing trades between daily consumable resources
20:12
@kviiri The resource being health?
@nitsua60 Based on this meta, should this question be rolled back to when it referenced Fireball? or is this a meta question?
@LukeSommers And slots
@kviiri Then what would you suggest?
@LukeSommers Here's a monkey wrench idea: WHat if the filling of the spellcasting power happens when they drop below a certain threshold of HP?
@NautArch Like, say half health?
20:17
Dunno, depends on what you want from the character exactly.
But anyway, a party of 4x L13 has a rather broad range of appropriate level monsters. Up to CR 18 or 19 as individual bosses, and anything below that as bodyguards, minions etc.
Thank you
@NautArch does it invalidate answers? Were those answers doing what they should have been doing originally given what we now know the asker was trying to find out with what they wrote, or were they overly focusing on one example?
@LukeSommers What's the overall role you'd like to see the blood mage playing in a party?
@doppelgreener The answers all significantly reference Fireball because of the specific language.
Bexcause ignoring cover and going around corners is not a normal spell interaction for cover.
@kviiri Perhaps a classic tank with spells to improve it? You get bonuses for being a tank (taking damage), for example, regaining spell slots.
20:25
@NautArch Right. Ignoring the point about homebrewing. I think it gives support to the answer to that question that says that (eg) armor boosted AC is not considered to be the creature's statistics for the purpose of Shapechange/tiger form. In other words even though the statblock lists the AC as 15 (say) when it transforms (and loses its armor) its AC is not kept.
I think I've got it: Once per long rest, when you drop below half health (rounded down), you can regain a 1st level spell slot. At 7th level, when you are below 1/3 health, you can regain a 2nd level spell slot. At 13th level, when you are blow 1/4 health, you can regain a 3rd level spell slot. At 19th level, when you are below 1/5th health, you can regain a 4th level spell slot.
@LukeSommers Interesting. Can you regain multiple slots simultaneously?
@Rubiksmoose But isn't that assuming it's losing it's armor (which I agree is likely the case)?
@NautArch Yeah I don't honestly see any way to have answered that question without focusing on the example to a certain extent since there doesn't seem to be any good cases for this question to rest on.
@NautArch Yes, I was assuming that.
Perhaps, at 7th level, you can get 2 1st level rather than the 2nd level?
20:27
@Rubiksmoose And that's what i think we have to answer first before we can answer.
The question is currently a two-fer.
@NautArch Agreed.
@Rubiksmoose @doppelgreener I'm fine with rolling back and commenting why, but wasn't sure if that's more of a mod thang.
@LukeSommers I mean, if I'm below 1/3 HP, then I'm also below 1/2 HP. Can I regain both a 2nd level slot and a 1st level slot?
Oh, probably not. Wouldn't it be more balanced if you had to choose?
Probably. I'm just poking at the wording in case of potential loopholes and unintended consequences.
20:30
It says "Once per day", is that clear enough?
@NautArch do you just want to copypaste your answer from mine to Can you Contingency a spell from a Ring of Spell Storing?? Nobody is answering it lol
@LukeSommers I spend too much time on this stack, so I've learned to search for ambiguous wording in rules text. Adding a few "instead"s or something like "You can only regain 1 slot this way" could resolve it.
Gotcha. Adding clarification now.
@NautArch You're a mod too, I'm just a mod with a broom made out of a diamond.
@doppelgreener Seems like a wasteful and frankly ineffective use of a diamond.
20:32
(it's got to be a very durable broom. Also good for barring doorways sometimes.)
hahaha
Eh, it's an industrial diamond so the market hasn't been artificially throttled.
@Rubiksmoose and possibly ineffective broom
@LukeSommers After a shower, I have some ideas of my own. I personally really like classes to have clearly defining gimmicks, so I'd do something along these lines: the Hemomancer can, during a Short Rest, perform a Blood Bonding ritual to connect with up to one ally at a time, and gain bonuses with this ally starting with an optional bidirectional pain sharing (share damage dealt with the bonded target) to give them a tanky vibe with a catch.
When you're cleaning up the kinds of things the diamond mods have to clean up you appreciate the broom being made of diamond.
20:34
@kviiri Not to be confused with the Hemmomancer, who specializes in keeping things from unraveling.
I want a script that replaces mod diamonds with little broom icons.
Hennamancer, magic temporary tattoos
@LukeSommers I had a 13th Age paladin with that flavor.
Also, not advocating one way or the other on handling that question. But if in doubt do nothing. Rollback is a very big action to be taken with great certainty and care. The author may just be trying to clarify what they're asking for.
@BESW Cool!
20:36
He was a famous skin-painter, and his One Unique Thing was that sometimes his body art was divinatory.
Furthermore, while I'd be fine keeping them as casters, I'd probably give them a few special spell-like abilities (similar to Monk's Ki) instead of tying the blood thing to classic spell magic. I'd tie those abilities to the two main themes of restriction (hinder enemies from targeting anyone but you) and retaliation (punish those who dare to attack you or your bonded ally)
@doppelgreener okey doke! Rolled back and put up a comment.
(I'm lifting a lot of stuff from 4e's Defender classes who aren't really present in 5e, although they're sorely missed at least in my heart <3)
I worked for a year flipping burgers at McDonald's in Australia for a year during university. (Actually a really nice place to work as a student.) There were a few managers and it seemed like it would be great to be one. Then we found out that because of OH&S laws, they were the only ones allowed to clean up a sudden mess in the toilets — and thus the ones that had to.
@kviiri I know I'm letting them choose Compelled Duel, which is something like that
20:38
This is my allegory for being a diamond moderator.
But we do it because we love this place and don't want [CENSORED] and [REDACTED] everywhere while you're busy doing stuff.
@doppelgreener I too served time at a McD's!
Also fantastic allegory lol
We also love y'all, sometimes with tough love.
Would a 3rd level spell slot equal 2 level 2's or 3 level 1's?
Trying to find comparisons
@doppelgreener Now I get it. You use diamonds because they are easy to clean of [REDACTED]
@Rubiksmoose Thank you.
@Rubiksmoose You got it.
That and other reasons like load bearing capacity and durability.
20:42
@LukeSommers Hm, it's hard to say... generally, each spell level is much more powerful than the previous, but upcasting lower level spells (casting lower level spells with higher level slots) tends to produce rather poor bang for the buck. So it depends on the spells the particular character has.
@NautArch In case you doubt it (and for the little it is worth), I also agree with that course of action. Though I think if there is any more confusion/dissent with this it should go straight to meta. It maybe should have already.
Here's the edited and hopefully more clear version: Once per long rest, when you drop below half health (rounded down), you can regain a 1st level spell slot. At 7th level, when you are below 1/3 health, you can instead regain a 2nd level spell slot. At 13th level, when you are below 1/4 health, you can instead regain a 3rd level spell slot. At 19th level, when you are below 1/5th health, you can instead regain a 4th level spell slot.
@Rubiksmoose Yeah, I wasn't sure only because there were already several meta about this general idea and I felt I was in a safe place to implement the previous metas.
@NautArch I think you are on firm ground there.
Would Inflict Wounds be too powerful?
20:45
Eg. Thunderwave, a level 1 spell, deals 2d8 thunder damage in a 15 foot cube or half that in case of a successful Con save, +1d8 per extra level of spell slot, up to 10d8 at level 9. Compare that to the actual 9th level spell Meteor swarm, that deals 20d6 + 20d6 damage on four separate 40 foot radius spheres.
@kviiri Alright, nevermind then
I'm thinking Divine Favor, Compelled Duel, Faerie Fire, and Inflict Wounds
Does that make sense?
21:02
For second level: Enlarge/Reduce, Flame Blade, Magic Weapon
@LukeSommers Unsure. Given how you want the class to play, I would suggest focusing on melee touch spells
@MikeQ Enlarge is for an extra 1d4 damage. Ideas for other 2nd level spells?
I'd be careful to avoid stepping of Eldritch Knight's toes, though
That's a bit of a problem, it's a similar concept
Is there a fighter archetype yet that's a divine counterpart to EK?
21:11
Besides, EK uses abjuration and evocation
@MikeQ Nope
UA Brute looks interesting (Not related to current problem except Fighter relation)
Oh, Shadow Blade
Hmm, I wonder if UA tries to port the Binder/Summoner into 5e, whether it would be for Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock
I think balancing it would be simpler if you had just spell-like abilities instead of actual spells.
21:26
@kviiri Perhaps, but I've already gotten this far
Level 3: Haste, Spirit Guardians, Vampiric Touch
Oh, Life Transference! I take damage and heal someone else, but technically, that would be damage from one source... yeah, that would be abused. Never mind.
Skill proficiencies?
Choose 1 from Survival, Insight, or Arcana?
Before you get to skills, what other class features does the Hemomancer get?
Oh man, haven't thought of that yet. Ideas?
21:43
So far it's just a melee-focused partial-spellcaster who can occasionally regain spell slots by endangering themselves. That alone is very underwhelming. @kviiri had some interesting ideas for other class features.
Blood Rush starts at level 3, which is when spellcasting starts
Ok, what do they get at levels 1 and 2? And later levels?
That's what I'm trying to figure out
Hm... You could have it be an archetype for fighter, maybe. But as it was said earlier, it's already overlapping with eldritch knight.
That's a lot of changes and overlap with Eldritch Knight
Ideas? I'm looking at Barbarian and Fighter 1 and 2 to see what they have, but I don't want to be too similar
Should it have Unarmored Defense like Barbarian? The thing is, it's meant to be hit and take damage
21:51
@LukeSommers well, it can get hit and take damage, once per long rest.
After they've used that ability, it's really, really bad for them to remain in danger
There are also other risks beyond damage. Like being grappled or knocked prone.
GTG, might not be back today
I'd probably start with Blood Bond at L1 as an optional pain-sharing ability with a single ally, changeable during Short Rest or Long Rest. Something like "when either you or your bonded ally takes damage, you can, at their permission, suffer half of the damage in their stead" (I considered "up to half", but it'd be more fiddly)
That's a simple ability to upgrade by allowing additional simultaneous bonds at later levels, and more benefits for bonding.
Something like a bodyguard ability, "when your bonded ally is attacked, whether the attack hits or not, you can use your reaction to make a weapon attack against the attacker".
That's a bit poor for defending far-away allies though, if one's indeed a tanky tank.
Or something dramatic like a Mark of Blood: "When you or a bonded ally takes damage from an enemy, you can use your reaction to place a Mark of Blood on them. You and your allies have advantage on all attack rolls against the target until one of you hits it. You can have at most one Mark of Blood effective at a time."
These are very quick ideas, but overall... well, screams Defender :)
But now I'm off to bed
22:19
I'm not a fan of what's happened to that question about elf beards
22:32
Rel🐘:
66
A: How could the Istari have prominent beards and still be considered elves by Men?

BESWIt could be an honest mistake born of ignorance. Since Men don't know much about elves, they may think the beards are a sign of the great age and wisdom of the Istari. Elves are weird and wild, why shouldn't the oldest and wisest of them have beards? (See below: they actually can!) Remember, we...

23:12
@LukeSommers Since the hemomancer seems more like an interesting flavor rather than a fully fleshed-out class, maybe consider designing it as a homebrew primal path for barbarian

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