The thing with Pandemic is, it's actually two games: one about winning (researching the cures) and one about not losing (keeping the diseases under control). People tend to play the latter much more, because it seems more urgent.

@kviiri This is a good point. You often end up deciding turns by committee, which isnt fun if you're never deciding turns

@kviiri there is a version of this where you try to keep the desease under control instead of mutating it?

@trogdor The original version in fact. Pandemic has many spinoffs now

Ah fair enough

I've only played a spin off then

Do you like that one? I havent tried it

Was it pandemic: in the lab? I feel like thats the one where you play the disease

Pandemic spinoffs: Pandemic: The Cure, Pandemic: Contagion, Pandemic Legacy, Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu, Pandemic Survival: Ibreia, Pandemic Survival: Rising Tide

It was pandemic extinction I think is what it's called?

Expansions: On the Brink, In the Lab, State of Emergency

I doubt it was made by the same people

@SirCinnamon No, In the Lab is just an expansion on the original board game

It adds a new mechanic for curing the disease

Contagion, I think is the one where you're the bug

That could be it

There's also a classic Flash game called Pandemic, iirc, where you play as a disease that eradicates all humans on earth except Madagascar.

@kviiri Yes, I think this was the original inspiration. Probably one of the most popular flash games

Eldritch Horror can be fantastic. It's very well-balanced and doesn't require perfect strategies, so it accommodates players with different playstyles.

I disliked Pandemic because it demands an optimal strategy, and feels like a group sitting around solving a math problem

you could also try that LOTR board game...

and fail

and fail again

and keep failing until the end of times

never before a board game managed to give me the same "there dices are loaded" vibe.

@Derpy Well, are you playing these other board games here or there?

what I actually meant is that almost every game I had with that fiend-of-a-game ended quite soon due to a very-unlucky-to-the-point-of-suspicious strain of "move Sauron forward one" on the event table....

and since when he reaches the end everyone loses... ^_^'

Anyway, to answer your question, I actually had a few tries at Pandemic, but memory of those is pretty vague.

and probably confused with the flash game with the same game, and its "clone" that was called "Rebuild"

.... obviously was meant to read "flash game with the same name"

@kviiri Yeah, coops in general tend to have this issue, but it is definitely present strongly in Pandemic. Or at the very minimum have the experienced person be of the disposition such that they can sit back and let other people make their own mistakes even if it means losing.

@Rubiksmoose One of the best things about pandemic is that it's always close - if you lose, you were just a few lucky draws or slightly smarter moves from winning. If you win, you did so with a loss condition right at your back

@SirCinnamon That is very true. It is a well-designed game.

@Rubiksmoose Beyond Hanabi and Shipwreck Arcana, do you know any coop games where the lack of common knowledge is a feature?

@Anaphory Hmmmmm.... that is a very good question. Arguably a lot of hidden role games would technically fit the bill being that they are partly coop and has hidden information (Werewords being a great example of this). But they aren't really coop in the sense that you are asking about I think.

Hanabi was definitely the first game that came to mind.

@Rubiksmoose Nope, they are not.

Players-vs.-Game in a way which can't be replaced by One-Player-vs.-Game is what I wonder about.

@Anaphory You know I just can't think of any that I have played that are like that really.

Drat. Invisible Sun sold out.

@Anaphory ?

@Anaphory Oh actually there is Onirim! 2 player game, I'm not sure if it is default or variant but there is a rule which limits what the players can say to each other and one that prevents them from saying anything at all. Which makes it hard since each player has a hand of cards they are trying to coordinate together.

@Yuuki From the description, that sounds competitive. But actually, where speed is an issue: I did play one recently where the players have to run a restaurant, with action selection done by placing a 3 minutes timer there. It would theoretically work with just one player, but would be very hectic.

@Anaphory But "coop".

Augh. Owowowowow. Well played!

Ah, Kitchen Rush.

grumble I hate the nWoD... it makes people think that it is the same as the oWoD. it is NOT. It has explicit rule differences. And then people upvote the answer that is based on the wrong game.

@Trish I hate the upcoming WoD even more.

Do the different versions of WoD use explicit version numbers? Or is it just "Old" and "New" (and "Newer")

You mean the 20th century?

well, technically there is only one WoD: the classic one. The nWoD got rebranded as Chronicles of Darkness & Chronicles of Darkness 2.0

no, the one that's in alpha right now

where? I guess they might add a numbering to that...

oh, that'd be 5th edition if I understand it right...

@Trish "The Chronic-what!-cles of Darkness" just doesn't have the right rhythm to it.

yep, plain old WoD, 5th Edition. After First, 2nd , Revised, 20th Century and then 4th.

worldofdarkness.com/v5 - that one I guess?

Tonight's the night!

@nitsua60 haha, nice!

@nitsua60 What if the wristband of camaraderie was the friends we made along the way?

my game for this weekend may be cancelled due to late notice of an 8-year old's bday party that starts at 7PM :(

Alternately, a fun way to subvert that would be grant each of the party members a teamwork feat if they don't immediately kill the questgiver.

@NautArch That's going in my notebook. Party picks lock, bashes in dungeon door, orcs throwing birthday party for 7 year old orc.

@Maximillian "Oh look, it's the magician we hired."

@nitsua60 I think I might include a small imp appearing to the maga in the TDE campaign, offering "A powerful treausre that could protect the town... if you manage to hang the head of the white ork hunter from the green tower's tip by midnight of the first of Efferd" - they are in a siegged city after all XD

The orc beats you to death with a padded pinata bat.

@Trish Does the maga have an orcbone pegleg?

maga. not mage. maga=female version of magus. which is the title of a member of one of the three magican guilds.

@Yuuki na, but she is a social mage with dominating spells and a knack for alchemy. she cooked up some 15 flasks of napalm... and might turn them into 15 barrels with just a little step to the dark side. What is a blood sacrifice to the archdemon of perverted elements for a saved town?

@Maximillian And then we find out how much murderhoboism there is in the party.

@NautArch reminds me of the adventure I wrote for a fellow GM to spite his players: al lthe orks and kobolds and goblins they killed... were parents. Their kids ended in a dungeon orphanage... they... killed all of them. Bad choice: The nanny was a red dragon. Ancient Eldritch red dragon. Which would have come back instantly as a Ancient Eldritch Ravener red dragon, should they slay it. They didn't made it that far...

being slain by slayers of innocent would have been the last part of the rite that would turn the dragon into that undead...

If you really want to punish players for murderhoboism (whether or not punishment is the thing you should do is an entirely different question), I don't think giving them a tough enemy is the right strategy.

Or you know, pull an Undertale and make them feel /really/ bad about murdering everyone.

Players who like to murderhobo enjoy combat. Winning feels better than losing, sure, but losing is still better than not having combat at all.

@Trish Hmm... how does one accurately hunt for the white whale orc without first losing a leg to said whale orc?

I just generally make it clear that actions have consequences. IT's okay to murderhobo, but beware if others find out about it.

players unexpectedly detained by orc authorities, taken deeper underground, kept in orc holding cell, informed they will be tried for murder, kept in orc prison for 45 days, get a trial by jury, orc public defender is appointed, tells you he's got a decent plea-bargain for you setup if you'll take it...

@Maximillian "Dude, I can't survive in orc prison! You know what they do to adventurers in orc prison!"

"Hey, you're orcs, can't I get trial by combat." "That's something we stopped a long time ago, and honestly, that's just racist of you to think we do that down here."

Remainder of the adventure is working with your lawyer to collect evidence and work with other inmates to either escape or prove that you were provoked and/or defending yourself.

If the party tries to escape violently, the next town they arrive in detains them and extradites them back to orc territory.

"Look, you should have looked through the proper charters and found a village without an extradition agreement."

wait, the orcs are the US? makes sense.... next time I GM Pathfinder, I'll give them M16s and lawyers....in a world that otherwise only has muskets made only by Dwarves.

First day in orc jail, another prisoner comes up to them and says "Get busy living, or get busy dying"

"See Thragg, this is what happens when people who spend so much time in the sun come down to our wholesome, civilized underworld."

Party is no longer allowed in dungeons without a passport.

@Trish Don't forget the cash. Lawyers, guns, and money.

good morning all

@ravery howdy howdy

Hey @NautArch -- I have another question about the campaign I'm running. They are at a point where they get a free upgrade to their armor (gift from the Harpers). But the parties classes are locked in light armor. would it be game breking to give them all a +1 enchantment instead? current AC + DEX for the party is 14-16

@Maximillian the barbarian pats his great axe "this is my passport."

@ravery Game breaking? What level are they?

@ravery What level are they?

they are 4th

running a difficult campaign

@ravery It's kinda up to you. I don't htink it'd be gamebreaking, but level 4 is a bit low for magical armor in my opinion.

But is this a high magic setting?

it is high magic, and since they can't go to medium armor, I figured the boost would be equivilant

They'll still get hit plenty if the monsters are CR 3, 4 and 5

At least, that's what I've seen at that level.

@KorvinStarmast they have already fought CR4 and CR5, there will be more

IF it's high magic, I see no real reason to NOT give it to them (other than it's kinda low level.)

My paladin didn't get plate until 5th level, to give an idea of what i've seen at my tables.

@ravery I'll offer that the use of the term game breaking doesn't fit the question.

but plate is AC17??

I think it will be mildly helpful; less useful in fights with lots of monsters and lots of attacks, more useful versus solo monsters with not loads of attacks.

@ravery AC 18

If your players aren't getting hit at the rate you'd like, then you just may need to up the encounter difficulty. Not a huge deal.

giving the party +1 enchatments will bring them to AC15-17, and will have Level 5 at the end of the chapter without aditional bonus

Or have more monsters in the encounters. More attacks eventually result in more hits, if that's the problem you are trying to solve.

I'm trying to solve them getting to close to losing half the party

@ravery My ranger has chain shirt and +3 for dex (medium armor master) for AC 17 with his bow, and 19 with a shield. He still gets hit. He's level 2.

@ravery right, but light armor wearers generally can't get that high without magic. But if you're in a high magic setting, then it's up to you as to whether Uncommon items are available yet.

@ravery tactics might be a way to address that. How experienced are the players?

chain only allows +2 dex unless you have the medium armor feat

@ravery I say Uncommon because a cloak of protection is uncommon. So I see no real problem with giving a +1 enchantment to armor.

@ravery I believe that I told you that my ranger has it. ????

ah yes I missed it, but how did he take a feat at level 2?

He took it at level 1. Vhuman

The point that I am trying to get across to you is that AC 15-17 is nice, but will not stop them from getting hit. So no, not OP.

gotcha

What classes in the party?

@KorvinStarmast @ravery and it's equivalent to an uncommon magic item in a High magic world.

@KorvinStarmast that's what I was thinking. Rogue, warlock, bard, barbarian

Barb can wear medium armor, but chooses not to (Unarmored defense?)

correct, but uses a shield

Yeah, ours does the same

another possibility, the just broke 3 dragon eggs. could have 3 suits of dragonhide made and delevered when they hit 5th

Hmm, isn't that medium armor?

well I mean leather made from dragon skin... as opposed to hide armor

Ah. and just make it one better (AC 13) than studded leather?

correct

the duration of the next chapter is 2 months, so it could be made and shipped to arrive at the end

What, Jeff Bezos has presence in your game world???? 8^o

I kid ....

who is Jeff Bezos?

@KorvinStarmast lich?

@ravery Amazon.com; he built it, he owns it

@BESW A Cozy Den

ah lol. the party is traveling with a merchant caravan, slow with many rests. a rider could catch up to them if delayed two weeks

@ravery Sounds like a winner to me. (Sorry about the baby dragons though ... they were gonna be so cute ... until they grew up and got hungry ...)

lol

yeah, the barbarian (INt 8) played that one up well

@NautArch Yeah, not sure how else to describe such a BBEG

Sounds like you guys are having fun.

yes, we are enjoying the campaign, which is why I want to lower the chance of death a bit. there a quite a few deadly encounter

*encounters

(atleast one every chapter)

A one-time +1 AC across the party is very far from game breaking

@ravery there a quite a few deadly encounter That's a good thing. :) Keeps them on their toes, and keeps the feeling of danger/tension alive.

At low levels, game breaking stuff would be some ability that lets them, well, break the challenges in trivial ways

@ravery and +1 AC does nothing when going against casters or things that require ability checks.

@NautArch Amen to that. See Ropers and restraining characters with a hit ...

and since the campaign gives themm a free armor change, it seems the intent is to allow an upgrade

@ravery is this a published campaign or homebrew?

published Hoard of the Dragon Queen

@ravery I just realized that dragon scale mail is very rare, not rare. So never mind on a suggestion that I was going to toss out.

the baby dragons aren't big enough to make scale. they need to use the hole hide

Yeah, that makes sense.

@ravery Ah, I am less versed in things like that. But if you're playing it in a high magic setting, then giving them the equivalent of an uncommon magic item at level 4 seems reasonable.

@Naut is that a change from DMG to XGTE? I have light +1 as rare

@NautArch at the begining of the next chapter the Harpers offer the party new armor. since the marty is maxed for light, they wouldn't benifit. which is why I'm considering the enchantment

**party is maxed

I am trying to remember; there was an edition of D&D where the + on the magic armor would assist with saving throws. I think it was 1e AD&D.

@KorvinStarmast DMG says cloak of protection is uncommon?

which is arguably better than +1 armor (saves, too). But yeah, +1 armor is Rare.

@ravery I dunno. Modules may work differently (i've never played a module.) If they hadn't already bought the best available mundane, then this may have been an opportunity to get it (and may be more for the heavy martials as a means to get plate)

@NautArch AH, I missed that. sorry

They don't have a heavy martial

@KorvinStarmast right, but the module may not care about that :) I also don't know about how much money they start out with and opportunities for getting better armor earlier and whether or not @ravery has made that 'better armor' available earlier.

@NautArch yes I think a way to move from light to medium, but no one in the party can (or would) move above light.

They started with standard eqiup, gold flow is low

@ravery Right, then your question is - do you want to shoe-horn the upgrade and give them better than what the module generally provides or follow the module to the letter.

@ravery Rogue, warlock, bard, barbarian: barb can wear medium, not sure I understand his reluctance? Breast plate, decent dex, shield ... decent armor class right there.

expenses are so far picked up by NPCs

@ravery that makes me think it's more for the heavy armor wearers to get the good mundane armor than it is to boost all armor levels.

If your players are making decisions that aren't optimal, then let them make those decisions.

@ravery The more I think of it, the more I like Naut's idea on harpers giving them all +1 cloaks of protection. Seems to fit the theme better of Harper Assistance ... but that's an opinion deal.

@KorvinStarmast WHOA there big guy. I didn't recommend the CLoaks of Protection...I said that if the CLoak is uncommon and they're in a High Magic setting, then giving them +1 armor (which is, technically Rare) shouldn't be too big of an issue.

@NautArch Looked like a suggestion to me, but no worries, the improved armor from the dragons is a great idea as well.

BUt I admit I don't know anything about the module and what the...intent...is on this armor upgrade.

@NautArch -- though might fit thematically, though 4 cloaks might be much rarer than four mages casting an enchantment

@NautArch Yeah, and I don't have the book with me to see if there's anything in there. +1 to AC at that point is hardly a problem since they aren't heavily armored.

@ravery I think it's really up to you, but my hunch is that it's not a big deal. And if it is, you can adjust encounters accordingly.

ok, tks for the input

@NautArch Just fudge all your attack rolls up one ;P

@Rubiksmoose <laughs maniacally>

@Rubiksmoose except I roll publicly on attacks eliminates me from having to check their AC, they tell me if it hits

@ravery I roll openly as well. But I don't disclose my modifiers :)

I mean, they'll figure it out, but I don't tell them.

but that makes sense as well thematically that as combat goes on, you get a feel for your enemies.

@ravery lol yeah. I mean it was a deliberately terrible suggestion anyways.

though, I could up the monsters to hit with a +1. I don't think they'd notice

@ravery DM has lots of things they can do 'fix' previous mistakes.

@NautArch -- true. So, since the campaign has been very low in regards to treasure/rewards; I'll give them the enchantments, and compensate later if needed.

@ravery Let 'em feel good. If it's trouble, you can fix it. BUt I doubt it will be. I've only seen things become a problem so far when one PC has a massively higher AC than the other party members.

And even then DM can usually self-balance that a bit since mosnters aren't going to try to keep going for the guy they can't hit/hurt when there's all these nice squishy people around them.

@Rubiksmoose Monsters do not have a hive mind.

Monster has to notice a difference, I figure

We had a long discussion a while back, my son and I, about the difference between a "tank" and an "off tank" and how to compare that idea from League of Legends to D&D.

It seems that we agreed that as tanks go, fighters with sentinel and protection fighting style, or the new Cavalier with some of those features, fit with tank. Paladin not as much; more of an off tank/bruiser. But the paladin can take those two as well, so it's not all that cut and dried. Plus pal as off healer ...

Now that I think about it, tanks in LoL and D&D are remarkably similar.

At least moreso than tanks in MMORPGs.

@BESW I'm looking through the big list of RPG poems, but from the information in there it's really hard to judge the type of game.

@Yuuki yeah. The WoW role meta leaves me wanting to play healer. And I am about to uninstall WoW again. It just doesn't do it for me.

What's an off tank?

@Anaphory Depends on what game you're playing.

But in LoL, off-tanks, or bruisers, are sturdy melee characters with strong damage output.

@Rubiksmoose True. Our DM generally has just sent monsters with enormous to hit modifiers at us so that he could hit that guy. WHich made my AC meaningless. Which then turned me into a kiting paladin. But now the huge AC guy has the Mobile feat. So I dunno what's gonna happen now :)

In LoL, it was often the top lane solo, but it wasn't necessarily so. In D&D, the off tank isn't quite as sticky/hard to hit as a tank, but has good AC.

While tanks threaten space through their ability to initiate fights and crowd-control, off-tanks threaten space through their ability to blow something up.

@Yuuki As opposed to tanks, which are even sturdier, with less focus on damage output?

@Yuuki I guess that makes me the off-tank.

@NautArch yeah, but all that requires is a fire giant.

@Anaphory In LoL, traditional tanks are both sturdy and they have abilities that facilitate jumping in and causing chaos while their team comes up behind them to do damage.

@KorvinStarmast Fire Giant?

@Yuuki I tended to play Gangplank as an off tank many seasons ago, when there was that armor that added crit or something in mid to late game.

We're also about to go to the Astral plane...not quite sure what we'll find there :)

@Naut Fire giants hit a lot. Even with my 24 AC my champ gets his share of large damage doses.

@KorvinStarmast Barb has 27 AC.

Wow! nice.

Not nice for DM...and therefore me.

My 20 AC is meaningless. It might as well be 16.

Thank goodness for Find Greater Steed.

Get a cloak of displacement. :) Or are you already attuned to three items?

how did he get 27 AC? Max Con and Dex, I guess, and then?

@KorvinStarmast already attuned. Ring of Protection, Ring of Earth Elemental Command, Ring of Free Action.

@KorvinStarmast +3 shield and manual of bodily health

Aha, legend of the three rings

So as far as archetypes go, here's how it goes in LoL: bruisers and mages tend to have strong burst damage, tanks have strong crowd-control, and marksmen have high sustained damage. The goal of a bruiser or mage to assassinate the enemy damage dealers (marksmen, mages), the goal of the tank is to both force fights with favorable conditions and protect the damage dealers, and the goal of the marksman is to kill the tank.

Nice. A barbarian who reads.

There's another role (support) but it's a bit more depth and weird.

@Yuuki Nice summary. I got that one champion free, the tanky bull. Begins with an A. (Man, it has been a while)

I found that I'd rather play supports ...

Alistar. Yeah, he's one of the tank supports.

The new rune/mastery systems mean I have to relearn all over again. The new Gangplank I dislike intensely, so I started playing less.

Alistar! Yeah, that's who.

@KorvinStarmast I actually like the new runes system.

I do like the new Corkie, since he can gat those rocket booster packs in town now and again. He's stillfun. I use the Red Baron skin when I play him.

Mostly because there's no "oh, I have to buy a lot of this specific stat thing".

Quinn is my pocket pick.

I probably just need to get into it and get used to it.

And she's viable in botlane now too!

Quinn is much fun. Has she had many changes recently?

@KorvinStarmast I don't know how long it's been for you, but her ult's been changed.

She no longer transforms into a melee assassin.

Awe. Last I checked, she was a big bird who flew all over the map.

@KorvinStarmast The Free Action I randomly got on a treasure roll and figured anything that could possibly keep me moving is a good thing.

While the barbarian can't really get hit much and has crazy HP, my massive damage spikes and the ability to be mobile o my pegasus puts me in a great position.

Oh yeah; getting restrained/held suxors. (We had a roper fight in the underdark back in 2015 that was brutal since so many of the party kept getting wrapped up ....)

@KorvinStarmast WOn't help on a roper, but magical restraints won't paralyze me.

Not that it's easy for me to fail saves

@Yuuki Man, I'll bet it's been well over a year, maybe two, since I played QUinn.

But my CHA is capped at +3, so i'm not the save master i used to be

how so, no more ASI's?

@KorvinStarmast results of one of our delightful critical fumbles

@NautArch tell us more ....

dropped from +4 to +3 and it's permanent

Ouch! what did that?

@KorvinStarmast Well, she still sorta has that.

Her ult gives a lot of out-of-combat movement, but she no longer becomes a melee bruiser assassin for a minute or so.

@Yuuki I need to open that game this weekend and see what is up with Quinn. Had a lot of fun with her top lane.

She's still mostly the same, although her Q reduces vision rather than blinds and it now also applies vulnerability.

@KorvinStarmast I was fighting an efreeti with my +1 maul. Critical fumble, 97% roll for how bad it would be. DM said I cracked myself in the head and went unconscious in the firewall I was standing in when I attacked. Had me roll a d4 for my WIS, INT, and CHA and subtracted the result from my ASI. Some greater restorations brought some back, but he capped my CHA at 16.

It was 18, but I rolled a 4 :(.

Arrgh!

(I stopped using crit fumbles way back in 1e days ... the humor/caprice had worn off by then)

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, I got my other stats back to normal. But CHA he capped. I also don't think he in general liked my auras helping everyone out (and me) and this was a way to mitigate that.

I can't play League anymore. Their new anticheat breaks the game on a non-windows system

Were you using Linux?

yes Debian Linux and WINE

Sorry to hear that. I suppose you can appreciate how deadly cheat-hacks are to their business model.

my linux days are pretty much over.

lol, I can't play, but my daughter had a scripter in her game yesterday

@ravery (I mean how deadly to Riot's business model)

@NautArch Whoa, what the heck? What edition was this?

@KorvinStarmast We do have another critical fumble rule that if you roll a 100%, it's auto-death. And it's happpened.

@MikeQ 5e. Table rule.

Wow. I guess thems is the breaks ...

Basically it's generally bad. If it's over 95%, it's really really bad.

Most fumbles range from self-dealing damage, dropping/breaking weapon, losing rest of turn.

Do monsters get crit fumbles too?

THe 95+ is when you start to see the big penalties. It sucks.

(The other problem is how the added rolls slow the game down ... or at least that's what I had found as a DM so I got rid of it)

@KorvinStarmast rolling dice is NOT a problem at our table. We like to roll. Moar dice, moar better.

Cool. Roll dem bones. I like to play craps in vegas.

On the flipside, that dice preference does mean I can reroll my 1s and 2s on smites.

Also does he follow it blindly, like if you fumbled while rolling to hit a goblin would you still insta-die if the dice say?

@NautArch I do hate critical fumble tables.

The high level fighter is more likely to stab himself in combat than the L1 fighter.

I dunno, these days I view crit fumbles differently. Back in the day, I thought crit fumbles made sense because of "fairness". But really, for whom are crit fumbles fair? The player? Eh, I don't think introducing a self-harm outcome is fair for the player. For the enemy? The enemies are constructs of the game, fairness or unfairness doesn't really have an effect on them. Plus, from an abstract point of view, enemies die multiple times without consequence while that is not the case with players.

@NautArch Heck, my brother still has us roll for a lot of stuff when he runs the game; it's a beer and pretzels kind of game so we get a lot of silly fails. (like the time that I got out bargained for fresh cucumbers at the local village market by our barbarian ... that was due to a roll off)

I switched out critical fumbles that have mechanical effect for a descriptive flavor table.... which is to say a list of adjectives to select from.

@ColinGross Yup, and I generally have 3-4 attacks/round now.

I have never had good experiences with crit fumbles because the tables tend to be silly and more extreme than what the character can normally do. Like when a character capable of ~5 damage per attack suddenly stabs themselves for ~50. Or if a stray arrow suddenly hits an ally for max damage, and now everyone's dealing with a surprise PVP that nobody asked for.

@NautArch You're more at risk from critical fails than you are from the enemy.

But we also use flanking, so I try and get advantage before I do much. But now that our Barb has mobile, he may not be engaged for me to gain advantage with anymore.

@MikeQ I'll say that when the game was young, we liked it for the randomness of outcome. We were used to characters dying a lot. When I was DMing for my kids, I didn't like the idea of them self maiming, among other things. I was trying to keep the game clean and simple.

@NautArch Still an unacceptably high risk for a supposedly epically good melee fighter.

@ColinGross Oh, I know :)

Advantage helps to mitigate so I use when I can.

@MikeQ So much of this garbage. Or permanent damage to equipment due to "bumbling"

I hate going in without it, i'm rolling in fear.

@NautArch vote to abolish house rule?

EVen when I have adv, i'm rolling in fear.

@ColinGross I've discussed it. Rest of table doesn't want to.

@NautArch vote with advantage to abolish house rule?

So...next campaign i'm playing a wizard.

@NautArch That sucks. Stop attacking?

@NautArch Which school, or have you figured it out?

If you like to roll a lot, I'd consider summoner/conjurer. More minions attacking on your behalf, and all that.

@ColinGross Not an option for a vengeance paladin. Especially when my minimum damage on a single hit is usually 17.

@KorvinStarmast About 95% sure it's divination. 5% abjuration.

@NautArch Pick up a crossbow or something you're less likely to get murdered by.

Div looks fun too.

@ColinGross can't smite with a crossbow.

@NautArch Yeah. The other players will figure that out pretty quick

@KorvinStarmast backstory suggests divination (that was my original plan)

@NautArch Unless you use the crossbow as an improvised melee weapon

@ColinGross It's fine, we're almost done with this campaign.

@NautArch He gazed into the crystal ball, and saw a mighty warrior slicing off his own foot. So he signed up for wizard school the next morning and never looked back Something like that back story? :)

@KorvinStarmast I'm entertained

@ColinGross Shall I cut off my other foot for an encore? 8^o

My elf just calculated he might create 12.5 tons of potatoes with a 200 mana spell. That are about 6875 rations of 1400 cal. Which would feed the town they are in for 2 days.

I am aching to get to level 3 with our ToA group so Shal and I can RP the ceremony where my ranger gets his archetype ... we had discussed doing a ritual or a ceremony of some sort ...

which system?

@Trish Which is why I voted to build a wall to keep elfs out! Ruining the potato economy of our small towns!

@goodguy5 TDE

@Trish I guess Gollum is not invited for dinner. He doesn't like taters, Precious.

@ColinGross they are in a sieged town and pondered "how long can we keep the peoplefed?"