TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

01:19

if there are any 3.5e folk about -- I have a Clr7/Rgr2 (CG, CG deity) who could use a bit of spell selection help. There's a plan afoot that involves her being bait, bereft of normal armor and weapons, yet having to at least fend off if not hold or take down a floaty-guy whose plot is to wear her and her partner down, then pelt her with weird magical objects until they take a hold of her and suck her off into <redacted> (and do the same with her partner)

what spells should my character have to give her the best chances of success against Mr. Floaty? (Mr. Floaty has no legs, if that's a clue to what kind of thing he is. I suspect djinni shenanigans, but it is also not out of the question that something more sinister is involved)

as to constraints on this: first party published spells only, no spells with the evil descriptor on them. otherwise, it's fair game.

(oh, and this is in Faerun btw)

trogdor

04:30

@SmokeDetector but surely supplements are allowed in RPG's :P

The Oracle

05:15

0

Q: What's with the weird questions I see in the list?

Clearly somebody's noticed that sometimes questions appear in the active list with only a url of some sort as the title because when I try to go to the question to flag it so it will get deleted its already been deleted. It seems like its happening alot more recently though. I noticed one just ea...

discussion

dot_Sp0T

08:15

@Helwar not sure how if your question has already been resolved, here's a few quick pointers: EOTE is very *different* from the likes of DnD an co. it is all about the characters and the story (or so it claims at least) - so the whole dice-system, encounters, etc. are geared towards that goal.
Rolling dice doesn't go against a hard limit, but you always roll positive dice (green & yellow & blue) and negative dice (black & lila & red(?)) - the results of all are then counted and some cancel each other, etc.; **ALL** the faces that are not cancelled have a meaning now, e.g. if you succeed a r…

Helwar

@dot_Sp0T Hey thanks! I remember how the dice system works. With successes, failures, bonuses and everything. It's just all the non-basic things like... "Class selection", It's hard to get a feel of what a noble is good at. Or how to manage combat. I remember it being hard to remember how many "steps of distance" every character has relative to the others... And I need to remember how the hell enemy groups work xD

But don't rush, it was something that I wanted to do last weekend, but something came up and I couldn't do... so now I'll have time to relearn

the proper way

dot_Sp0T

08:33

@Helwar oh that stuff is terrible, yeah. There is a plethora of rules and stats, etc. and they all seem very important and whatnot; my group eventually gave up on it, but what really helped wrapping our head around it was following a beginner adventure and trying to only add a few of the things every session (e.g. ignoring weapon classes and whatnot at first and only concentrating on how you hit enemies, etc.)

kviiri

09:15

@dot_Sp0T That sounds very much like something I homebrewed once, except mine used a deck of cards :)

(I very much like the "self-correcting" distribution produced by a deck of cards when used in certain ways)

My card system is still very much untested but the basic idea is that we determine the length of an Event Chain as a number of Events. Then we construct and shuffle a larger deck and draw as many cards as the length of the Event Chain is, and each card flipped represents an Event in the Chain.

(I also call the Event Chains "scenarios" or "quests" but they have connotations I think might alienate people)

Eg. an Event Chain of length 6 could be constructed out of 5 Easy Challenges (clubs), 2 Hard Challenges (spades) and a Happy Occurrence (Ace of Hearts), out of which six cards are drawn.

The real kicker is, though, that players could do stuff to the deck before the draw. Prepare for the Event Chain in advance? Add "Preparation Pays Off!" (diamonds) events to the deck. Take a Wild Gun NPC along? Add a "Moley McTurncoat betrays you!" (Jack of Clubs) event to the deck.

dot_Sp0T

oooh, using cards as probabilities sounds fun indeed

doppelgreener

10:37

Good morning, chatizens! o/

kviiri

10:49

@doppelgreener Hail to thee as well

BESW

11:05

Working on new posters for the LB con game now I know a little more about the setup.

The white space at the bottom is to write in times, table number, etc.

dot_Sp0T

it's coming along nicely

BESW

The logo makes for some weird white space.

[pokes listlessly]

doppelgreener

can you stick the blurb in space beneath "blackbird"?

not compacted into that tiny space, just fitting it vertically beneath there

trogdor

Wait how does that work if it doesn't fit Into The space?

doppelgreener

@trogdor just limiting the horizontal bounds to no further left or right than "blackbird", and letting it flow down further if necessary

trogdor

11:16

Ooooh

BESW

doppelgreener

@BESW for me it's between that one and the first version

... i think i prefer the first version as a-ok actually

with that one in very close second and the middle version as a distant third

BESW

...I think I can take out "space opera" without losing anything of import.

FreezePhoenix

@BESW Uh... no.

BESW

It's already got swashbuckling, broken hearts, and spaceships. "Space opera" doesn't really say anything that's not already said.

And taking it out makes it a little less of a word salad.

FreezePhoenix

11:26

Ah, ok

BESW

Hmm. If I give myself the liberty to mess with the logo text...

FreezePhoenix

NO

Why is there so much extra white space

BESW

24 mins ago, by BESW

The white space at the bottom is to write in times, table number, etc.

FreezePhoenix

I think you should put your word salad at the bottom by shortening the picture a little, and centre "Blackbird" vertically.

BESW

Part of the trick here is that nobody but nobody will know what "Lady Blackbird" means. The name isn't a draw.

FreezePhoenix

11:37

facepalm Centered vertically means equal distance from top and bottom

BESW

Yeah, then we're back to the original logo text with its weird white space problem.

FreezePhoenix

@BESW I think that's a good one

BESW

It's got decent art but it's lousy on message.

And the point isn't to look pretty.

The pitch is more important than the name, because the name doesn't communicate any information that's useful to making a decision.

If it were Dungeons & Dragons, the name would provide most of that information on its own, no pitch really needed.

And that means featuring the pitch and the art, because they contain the information the poster needs to convey.

doppelgreener

@BESW i considered suggesting that layout, but considering how immediately important "what is that?" needs to get answered, and how the picture isn't an answer, the next logical thing in flow should be a description.

but maybe that works

we need a website for preview audiences

FreezePhoenix

^ UX.SE

JK

BESW

11:51

Maybe I'll buy some big label stickers instead of putting the markup space into the poster design.

FreezePhoenix

How about...

Lady    Blackbird
( desscription  )
(     Image     )

David Coffron

40 mins ago, by BESW

FreezePhoenix

No, no.

Put the ( Description ) all on 2 lines

kviiri

52 mins ago, by BESW

like that?

FreezePhoenix

o.o

Yes

BESW

11:59

The negative space on that one is kinda terrifying.

kviiri

I don't think it's bad, honestly, but I like the one with the description on the top. Although I'd crop the graphic a bit from the top and the bottom to make the ship more centered.

FreezePhoenix

(I didn't scroll that far)

@BESW Just don't Print the negative space

BESW

...what.

FreezePhoenix

@kviiri hm..

@BESW Don't ship that part to the customers

kviiri

The Simpsons S09E17 "You have to listen to the notes she's NOT playing"

►

FreezePhoenix

12:01

I think the description on the top would be ok.

BESW

(a) You may have missed the bit where I started out by saying what this is for.
(b) Negative/white space is a term of art that doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

FreezePhoenix

@BESW Oh that negative space

Rubiksmoose

Not printing the negative space is way easier than going back and cutting out all the negative space with scissors to be fair :P

The Oracle

0

Q: Should we get rid of the [backstory] tag?

There are only two questions so far tagged with backstory, both are closed. Is this tag useful, do we really need it? We have both background and backstory at the moment, I guess they do intersect.

discussion tags

FreezePhoenix

@kviiri FYI I have no audio :) Funny though

David Coffron

12:05

@BESW I don't understand what the issue with the negative space is. Can't you just shift the image down and justify the description to emphasise it in the negative space. Or are you concerned about the way the title looks.

BESW

@DavidCoffron Yeah, that's how the original text logo worked, but I'm using more text than they did so it winds up being overcrowded or too small.

FreezePhoenix

Just up the font until it works...

kviiri

I'm sorry if I'm help-piling, and also about my help being very amateurish, but would it be possible to tackle the negative space issue with some filler graphics?

Anaphory

@BESW I'm sure you have tried the combination of this and

@BESW this

BESW

Those are the same thing.

Rubiksmoose

12:08

Combining them should be very easy then no?

BESW

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose perhaps not. Ghost busters taught us that

Anaphory

@BESW Sorry, clicked on the second one before sending it off, fixed now.

@BESW General shape as here

@BESW Lady BLACKBIRD on one line as here, though.

BESW

@Anaphory "General shape" how?

Anaphory

Text in larger font on top, not flowing around the “Lady”, Owl on the bottom, no white space under it.

David Coffron

12:13

@Anaphory you could maybe get away with Landscape with that design if you wanted.

Anaphory

Taking from the other one the reduction of negative space by not having
Lady
BLACKBIRD

on two lines

BESW

Landscape would make this all SO MUCH EASIER but I need the poster to rise above the crowd off the easel.

Anaphory

but instead even letting the “y” descend into the Owl

David Coffron

@BESW if your open to text graphics you could extend the L`s tail underneath the BLACKBIRD text. Although that might look.a bit tacky

BESW

I'm also working on table tents for the crawl text.

I can get those standing almost 11 inches tall on the table.

David Coffron

12:24

Are these for a convention? (Maybe I missed that)

BESW

1 hour ago, by BESW

Working on new posters for the LB con game now I know a little more about the setup.

David Coffron

For some reason I read that is a confidence trick game

:facepalm:

kviiri

@BESW So that's what they're called!

(frankly I don't know what they're called in Finnish either)

BESW

Yeah, I'm gonna be running Lady Blackbird games at a local convention this coming weekend. I've never been to a gaming convention before... and they've never organized one, it's an anime con that's trying to pivot into hobbies.

Anaphory

@BESW That's awesome! Your table posters also look a good size – I viewed one on my 20-inch-or-so vertical monitor from the corridor in 6 m distance, and I thought it was decent already, with being a good 1.5 times that size (did I get it right?) and paper instead of screen it should work nicely, whichever you go for.

Rubiksmoose

12:28

@DavidCoffron hah! I read it the same way briefly.

BESW

For advertising I get an easel with a 24x36 frame, and whatever I can put on or hang off of my 6x6 table.

@Anaphory Thanks! I was a little worried about that.

The poster's gonna be on the 24x36 easel.

kviiri

So one of my 7th Sea players is both a Knight of Avalon... and a member of the Pirate nation Brotherhood of the Coast.

BESW

David Coffron

@kviiri some ppl think there were pirates in the Knights Templar so it's not without precedent

kviiri

@DavidCoffron Myth has that Hospitallers were rather active commerce raiders against the Ottoman empire. Not sure whether it's true though

doppelgreener

12:38

@kviiri is this part of their code?

Like are you playing that terrible horrible advice straight?

kviiri

The Brotherhood of the Coast is definitely a group of pirates, not noble knights errants of the seas, although they obey a relatively humane code based on the historic pirate codes. Eg. they don't capture or kill the crews of the ships they plunder, but rather have them vote on the course they take and be released after the ordeal is done.

@doppelgreener The Knight's Gesa has a clause, "Never take something for yourself that belongs to another", so yes, it would seem this player will have a bit of conflicting affiliations here :)

doppelgreener

@BESW nice one!

@kviiri Does it still belong to them if they're dead? Is there a rule against murder?

kviiri

@doppelgreener There's an overarching rule against murder, actually! The PCs are expected to conform to the idea of a "Hero" at all times, and murdering a helpless character, even a Villain is explicitly mentioned as a non-Heroic action.

However, the book is very clear that the Gesa is interpreted subjectively - what does "belonging to another" mean? If a corrupt noble overtaxes their subjects, does the money belong to them or their subjects?

Rubiksmoose

Also "take something for yourself" still could be interpreted as maybe allowing the taking of things for the greater good possibly.

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Excellent point :)

doppelgreener

12:45

@kviiri nice. Good stuff.

@kviiri I see!! That explains how he can still be a pirate. I like that.

kviiri

@doppelgreener I'm not sure whether I like the enforcement of the rule, though... if a player does something Villainous (invoking certain really nasty magics, or otherwise doing something villainous like murder), they gain n points of corruption (where n is the amount of times they've gained corruption)

And then a d10 is rolled. Rolling equal or under one's corruption results in the character permanently flipping to the dark side, and becoming a Villain.

The GM is instructed to give the players a fair warning before issuing corruption, which is good at least.

doppelgreener

I don't much like that implementation either

Different implementation could be: you're a villain once your corruption hits 10. When you do something majorly evil, you gain +1 corruption, then roll a d10 and rolling equal or under your current corruption means you gain a further +1 corruption.

kviiri

I'm having a trouble getting this Hero thing through to the players though

One described their character as a Lawful Neutral officer of the law, another wants to be an assassin priest

doppelgreener

It may be they don't want to be classic big heroes with outstanding morals etc

David Coffron

13:00

@kviiri isn't the whole point of assassins to murder marks when they are the most helpless to protect themselves...?

kviiri

@DavidCoffron Exactly, which is why I had to tell them to think something else

David Coffron

@kviiri maybe a priestly spy would be more fitting. Some of the greatest warheroes are known for their reconnaissance

BESW

[digs into the font and fixes some kerning]

kviiri

@DavidCoffron Yea, although we already have a spy (of a more femme fatale style).

doppelgreener

@BESW that looks quite lovely

BESW

13:07

I did some color tinting so the upper section matches the lower section.

FreezePhoenix

13:18

@BESW Perfect

kviiri

@doppelgreener The book expects a degree of idealism from them though, and I feel I don't want to start changing stuff right away

FreezePhoenix

@BESW Maybe just shift the aircraft, a little to the right.

nitsua60

13:34

@BESW Personally, liked the wrapped version the best. (Like you need another opinion at this point!)

2 hours ago, by BESW

I feel like Keeping the LB name/logo together is important. On two lines it reads a bit like "Lady. Blackbird." Like maybe there are two things in some sort of conflict.

On one line it's clearly "Lady Blackbird," some sort of amalgam that arouses curiosity.

FreezePhoenix

@nitsua60 Keep this design, but enlarge the image to fill the gap on the bottom. Crop accordingly.

kviiri

@FreezePhoenix The gap in the bottom has a purpose

KorvinStarmast

13:49

@BESW If you are collecting votes, this one to me has the best visual (though removing space opera would not harm it)

kviiri

14:07

Hm, I need to help my ragtag bunch of misfits come up with "why are we a group".

Secespitus

@kviiri "Money"

goodguy5

\*yawn\*
good vacation boiz

KorvinStarmast

14:27

@kviiri What game system?

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast 7th Sea

After today's iteration of character building, we have an Ussuran (≃Russian) "texas ranger", a Highlander (≃Scot) pirate knight, a Vesten (≃Danish/Swedish/Norwegian/somesuch) femme fatale and a Castillian (≃ Spanish) revolutionary.

Maximillian

14:42

No Eisen? awww.

Castillians get the rapier sword school don't they?

As for unifying a party, we found 7th sea usually starts at the docks or on a boat. For one reason or another, be it escape from authority, running away, or looking for work, you all have a reason to get on a boat. You just happened to get on the same boat.

Ben

Evening everyone

Currently doing some remote support work with America

Rubiksmoose

@Ben Well please let us know if you manage to fix or improve America in any way. I can tell you that we'd all appreciate it.

Ben

Definitely. I'm sure if we do find a solid solution, it'll probably be common knowledge

"This just in: we fixed America"

Maximillian

14:57

I'm on site in America. We need to return some parts of the government for RMA. Still waiting for authorization from vendor.

Yuuki

@Maximillian Sometimes, you might be wearing a nautical-themed cashmere afghan.

... That does sound like something the leader of a band of goblin pirates would wear.

Like as a cape or something.

Mike Q

@kviiri If the game has not started yet, you could simply give them a group mission as part of the campaign premise. They're all part of a ship that set sail a week ago, so far nobody has backstabbed anyone else

Yuuki

@kviiri "We all queued up in the dungeon finder at roughly the same time."

Ben

Woooow

Mike Q

@kviiri If you're going for an "everyone is pirates" theme, then perhaps they're all wanted by the local law for some reason. Maybe they start on a prison ship, and have to mutiny their way into control.

Ben

15:03

So, I'm working on my router - basically it needs a hard reconfig. The guy has remote access to my laptop, and he's just making sure I've got everything I need to restart this modem.

But - oh no! The services I need to be running aren't? Well, looks like we need to install them... It'll cost $45 USD

...or I could just start them in the services panel..?

Mike Q

eh what? Are you sure this isn't a scam?

kviiri

@MikeQ Just one is a pirate, it seems. The guy playing the lawman seems to be the odd one out in this lawless bunch :P

Ben

I reckon...

Rubiksmoose

@Ben Yeah dude, did you request these services? Or did they tell you you needed them?

The whole router thing.

kviiri

@Maximillian I was going to have them join a war against a Vodacce merchant prince, but the various character Stories the players came up with are too good for me to derail with a military expedition. But that actually gives me an idea...

Ben

15:09

@Rubiksmoose Well, no. But I don't need to install them because I already have them.

Mike Q

@Ben If someone calls you up and says "Hey we detected a problem with your XYZ", it's probably a scam. Do not give them remote access to any of your devices, and do not give them any financial info.

Ben

But the support guy thought, because my system configuration said they weren't running, then I needed to get them installed

Yuuki

@MikeQ What if I gave him remote access to my neighbor's devices?

Ben

But they're preinstalled already anyway

Mike Q

@Yuuki Probably illegal depending on what country you're in, but you're in less danger from the hacker/scammer

Ben

15:11

@MikeQ I called them.

Maximillian

@kviiri Mercenary company. Possibly Condottieri

kviiri

@Maximillian Well the thing is, I don't want to tell them that "you're mercenaries now". I got enough resistance telling them they have to be Heroes.

Maximillian

RPG session and they don't want to be heroes? Hmmm.

Yuuki

@kviiri Boat gets sunk by rival merchant prince and now your party seeks revenge?

Maximillian

That may be too complicated for my basic advice. Good luck.

Rubiksmoose

15:12

@kviiri How about Impressment?

kviiri

@Maximillian Happens all the time. People want to play edgy renegades or murderous cretins.

Ben

I have done this before... The problem is that I'm in Australia, this is very much after hours, and so I'm contacting the after hours support line

Rubiksmoose

murderous renegades and edgy cretins also acceptable?

kviiri

Or uptight lawmen, or hitman priests... you know, people who aren't really heroic in the "moral example" sense.

Mike Q

@kviiri Just give them a common goal, and/or present it in a way that discourages inter-party conflict

Ben

15:14

Murderous call girls?

Crooked cops?

Rage-driven boxers?

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose That's what I originally considered, but having them on board to somewhere they don't necessarily want to be isn't a good fit for the Stories they have.

Ben

Sadistic magicians?

Mike Q

@kviiri For reference - I'm running a pirate themed game where player backgrounds are all over the place (former slave, undercover spy, foreign noble, fortune teller, and blank adventurer). I started them on a treasure expedition (unite the party). Then the bad guy stole all their loot, and they want it back (common goal). So if the party is very varied like this, then choose some goal that you think they would all want, at least as the initial call to adventure.

Ben

(I recently started playing Zombies in Black Ops 3 lol)

NautArch

Is this too broad, or am I being too picky?

Rubiksmoose

15:16

@kviiri Yeah I can see that be a big issue as well. Could lead to interesting things, but also to complete derailment.

and/or anti-fun'

Maximillian

I had a party that was too Lawful. For conflict within cities, townships, or kings roads, they would always seek authorities over doing battle themselves.

kviiri

So I'd like a start that leaves them in a rather sandboxy situation but so that they've formed some team identity that sticks after the constraints are removed.

Ben

@Maximillian What classes were they (also system?)

Maximillian

@kviiri Trap them on conveniently adventure sized island? Perhaps Pirate Island?

Ben

Out of curiosity

kviiri

15:18

@Maximillian "Trapped on an island" doesn't exactly scream "sandbox" to me.

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri Trap them on a desert island then :P

^(plenty of sand)

Maximillian

@Ben Was 3.5 back in the '00s. Some kind of variant fighter with a bladed bow, a sorcerer, a rogue who didn't like being called a rogue and a bloodthirsty dwarf cleric.

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose Don't use sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

Maximillian

An island can be a sandbox. Put a pirate town on it, sprinkle a few sites of interest, give the party a few general goals but no real direction.

Yuuki

@Maximillian Plenty of islands are literal sandboxes.

kviiri

15:21

@Maximillian Still is rather unconductive for the players to follow their own Stories, which is a big draw of the game

Maximillian

Plus the limitations of an island gives the party time to flesh out and find common goals before you open up a larger world to them.

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri I mean if they were impressed into a crew, could a mutiny be something that would be interesting to start with? Usually adversity is a good way to get people to coalesce into a team. Not sure what the rules are about that though in this game/world.

Maximillian

If you're concerned with them being unheroic in a game where you expect them to be heroic, you're going to have to wedge in some kind of opportunity to unify.

kviiri

Were it up to me this thinking would happen in a legit session zero, but one of the players has a really strict schedule and doesn't want to "waste" any time.

Mike Q

@kviiri That's kind of a red flag. It's just one extra session. They're not able to make session zero, what makes you sure they can reliably attend other sessions?

Maximillian

15:22

Typically "I alone am awesome" characters don't unify on their own.

Rubiksmoose

For example, I was thinking starting them right at the tipping point of the mutiny itself and throw them right into the adventure type thing. Then they have a ship that they can put around in doing sandboxy things.

Maximillian

Do you think they'll use the ship to do any of the objectives you have planned or will someone try to immediately set toward their personal goals?

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose Dungeons & Dragons: Black Flag

Ben

@Maximillian Fair enough. Is it possible that they didn't find combat something they were capable of? I personally usually default to the "smashy-smashy" fughter/barbarian archetype, and am quite happy to carry out combat. It's a simple matter of "walk in... Smash until everyone is dead". Whereas the other characters, they were often rogues or spellcasters, and didn't quite have the same effect.

kviiri

@MikeQ Yep. He's the one with the baby, though... I'm kinda willing to make some exceptions to my normal rules because I don't want them to drop out of the group

Ben

15:25

So they would often feel like they weren't, or couldn't contribute to the combat, and therefore look for alternate means of dealing with said combat situation.

Mike Q

@kviiri It's not a waste of time though. It takes the same amount of time as a regular session, no? It's a very, very, very, good idea to have everyone meet and discuss expectations for the game.

Ben

Until now, when one of the players had started as a barbarian character, and is quite fond of solving things through violence.

kviiri

@Maximillian I don't think you really get it... it's not about the players playing non-team-players. It's about them not being able to come up with a good backstory for how they met and why they are together, despite having rather different Stories to follow.

And everyone having their own story is a system feature, not their fault.

Mike Q

@kviiri Has the campaign started yet?

kviiri

@MikeQ Nope

Anaphory

15:27

@kviiri What kind of Stories do you have, then?

Mike Q

Ok, then what if you started in medias res plotwise? You could establish that they are already working together for some common cause, as part of the initial premise.

In other words, remove the "origin story arc", and just start them as a team

Maximillian

@MikeQ Handwave it all together and call them a team?

kviiri

@Anaphory The Ussuran one is hunting for an item stolen from the state. (the player asked me to decide what it is, in secret, so it's a collection of strategic maps) The Vesten femme fatale is trying to steal a secret document from an Eisen mercenary working for the Inquisition. The Highlander is destined to bear the mantle of an Avalon Knight and has to visit a fallen Knight's tomb and clear it of monsters.

@MikeQ Yea, I never really intended to play it out for reals. But experience has shown that it's easier to roleplay one's relationship with other characters when that relationship is clear :P

Mike Q

@kviiri Erm, yes you could take the approach of individual relationships - basically starting the party as small teams who (hopefully) quickly join forces

e.g. the Soldier and the Knight know each other, the Knight is escorting the Noble, the Pirate knows the Smuggler, who works for the Noble, etc - They each pull on these threads and inevitably team up... I haven't implemented this myself, but I have been in games where it has worked okay.

kviiri

I mean, so far my best plan is that the game starts after the Pirate Highlander's friends rescue the lot from jail, where they've spent a while and bonded.

Anaphory

15:33

@kviiri And who is the revolutionary revolving against? (Or is that not their Story?)

kviiri

@Anaphory They haven't decided yet

Anaphory

Ah, okay.

kviiri

They're the one with the baby... it's putting a strain on their ability to work on character building :)

Mike Q

@kviiri Depending on the players, I might advise against the unstructured adversity approach, like starting on a desert island and trying to survive, because it may encourage PCs to turn against each other early on

kviiri

@MikeQ Yea, I don't like the desert island. I want them to make their own trouble

Mike Q

15:36

And early game intra-party conflict is often a sign that the party will lose cohesion later on

Anaphory

They could all be somewhat adverse to the Vaticine Inquisition, judging from the equivalences of the historical age?

kviiri

yes, I think inquisition is the closest thing they have to a common foe

Anaphory

The Highlander, as well?

Mike Q

Example - I was in a game where we were asked early on who wanted to be leader - Two players dueled over it and argument ensued. Throughout the rest of the campaign, they kept trying to kill each other, which resulted in the party turning against itself, overall lack of trust and accusations of bias, and the game eventually falling apart.

kviiri

@Anaphory Yea, he's of the Church of Avalon, with a hint of Old Faith syncretism :)

Anaphory

15:39

Ah. Excellent.

Maximillian

The inquisition tends to not like anybody, even the inquisition.

Mike Q

@Maximillian Probably because nobody expects them

Rubiksmoose

1

A: If a PC contracts lycanthropy (werewolf), do they gain the abilities in its stat block?

According to the Monster Manual, in the Player Characters as Lycanthropes box on page 207: A character who becomes a lycanthrope retains his or her statistics except as specified by lycanthrope type. The character gains the lycanthrope's speeds in nonhumanoid form, damage immunities, traits...

kviiri

I'm quite pleasantly surprised that there's no Spanish Inquisition jokes in the 7th Sea handbook.

Now that's something I did not expect!

Helwar

@Rubiksmoose why did I read this as PC (personal computer) contracting lycanthropy? Wouldn't it be great?

Maximillian

15:43

Plus the Inquisition gives you badguys who can have some very nice, matching uniforms, some blades, and numerous reasons to harass the party.

Rubiksmoose

So OP made this answer a community wiki, I've only ever seen that done once before here and only with meta voted approval. I think this is something that we discourage/do not approve of here. Can anyone confirm this? Should a mod be flagged?

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose I'd say using a community wiki is unnecessary because it's a yes-or-no question

Rubiksmoose

@Helwar It is a shame that PCs can only contract lycanthropy(worm) and lycanthropy(virus) though.

Anaphory

@kviiri Hm… Urban inn in a proper Vaticine Eisen coastal city, which the Inquisition want to clean out for whatever reason, surrounding it with soldiers and getting the people out? Party are not prime suspects, but would obviously not like to be taken in for questioning, and the pirate friend's ship is in the harbour?

Mike Q

@kviiri If you don't want to have the group dynamic as an initial premise, then you may want to have some "harbinger event" in session 1 that kicks off the PCs' adventure. Either they're all victims of some event (e.g. being captured by pirates and need to get free), or they're all witnesses to some plot-relevant event (e.g. witnesses to some high-profile assassination, or they're in town square for the festival when bandits attack).

kviiri

15:48

@MikeQ I'd prefer for they to have a sort of common background and have them start play already bound by a common past, even if brief.

@Anaphory This sounds good, and is more plausible than just being randomly imprisoned

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri What if they all were orphans from the same pirate orphanage?

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I don't really understand the need/request for community wiki. Any one CAN edit it already.

Mike Q

The advantage of the "harbinger" event model is that you don't need to handcraft plot hooks for each player character

Anaphory

@kviiri That's what I thought. Also, being in danger of imprisonment by their most likely common adversary might make for a good start.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah neither do I. Or even just write their own. I'm not sure if there is anything that can/should be done about it though.

NautArch

15:51

@Rubiksmoose I'll flag it for Mods to review.

Anaphory

(Easier to escape than actual imprisonment, in particular by my stereotypes about Inquisitional prisons, as well.)

Rubiksmoose

Too busy to look right now, but I know that there was some sort of meta about CWs (or at least an answer talking about them). And my vague recollection is that we decided that we don't need them here.

Mike Q

@Anaphory I don't know much about the lore but that setup seems good. Just make sure that whatever happens next is enough to motivate them to stick together

kviiri

@MikeQ Yea, I could probably just tell them to stick together but that'd be awkward to roleplay

The thing is, 7th Sea has players write Stories for their own characters to play out. Kinda like "make your own quest". That necessitates a stronger group cohesion than usual, or a high tolerance of party splits.

Rubiksmoose

Erg I retract my previous comment on CW meta. I am not sure there was a meta about it at all.

David Coffron

16:00

@Ben fake news! :P

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Knights of Rhodes and Knights of Malta, yes. Recently read a good book on that about 16th century Mediterranean conflict, concluding with Lepanto. Empires of the Sea. Covers the Rhodes piracy prequel pretty well ...

Anaphory

@kviiri Which is a thing I would use my Session 0 for. (Which may have some scene play nonetheless.)

KorvinStarmast

@Maximillian What I found to address that was corrupt officials, and it took game play to uncover the corruption. :)

NautArch

@kviiri How is "make your own story" different than a 5e backstory and wanting the DM to figure out how to integrate that into the greater storyline?

kviiri

@NautArch Because it's actually written by the player, and it's a very important mechanic.

It's how most of the character advancement happens.

And it's not a backstory, it's a Story. Like a quest the player decides for their character.

KorvinStarmast

16:15

Goat setting 101, more or less.

NautArch

@kviiri I guess I' mthinking of it in the light of "I"ve got a character who wants to encourage a revolution in one of the territories." That's not my main story, but it's something they want to do. It's up to me to find a way to make their story work inside my story.

How is 7th sea different?

kviiri

@NautArch It's a mechanic and a very important one, not just "I want to do this". it's the main source of character advancement.

There's actual rules on how those stories should be written and how many steps should they include and what rewards can be taken for how many steps...

NautArch

@kviiri Okay, but other than it being a mechanic, it's the same need for the DM to integrate into the greater storyline. I think the harder part is getting buy-in from all the other players to let them pursue that.

kviiri

@NautArch Assuming there even is a greater storyline with four people pursuing their individual stories in turn.

NautArch

I don't know 7th sea, but is it that there's less of a greater storyline and more about the players working togehter to help each realize their goals?

kviiri

16:20

@NautArch I'd assume, given the heavy emphasis on personal stories. I've yet to try it, though, and the only member of my group who has prior experience was in a group whose GM didn't use the Story mechanic.

NautArch

@kviiri Based on that, it really seems like that mecahnic makes it somewhat easier for the GM (players come up with the storyline outlines), but then you make it real. Hardest part is making sure all the players are interested in participating in that and helping each other. It also means that the GM should try and find/make overlaps when they can.

Maximillian

My group didn't use it either. We progressed when we hit parts of the GM's prepared story.

kviiri

@NautArch Yeah, I've established with the players they want this, but the tricky part is trying to come up with a in-universe justification to why their diverse group would be willing to go out of their way to help each other accomplish their goals.

It's not like they wouldn't otherwise, we just want to come up with a backstory to make it less awkward.

NautArch

@kviiri I'm honestly not sure that's all that necessary? I dunno. You've all decided to play a game together. If folks are purposefully not wanting to do that (because character reasons), then that kinda feels My Guy-ish.

kviiri

@NautArch See my later comment.

David Coffron

16:26

@KorvinStarmast did Cyprus partake as well? That's the only South East Mediterranean Knights island you didn't list lol

(Am I forgetting one)

NautArch

@kviiri Are they all on the same ship? FIghting the same monsters? If so, that's your reason. THink of it like a fighting unit or even workplace group. No one is really tied together, but everyone is working together.

And also, I want to help Character A because I want CHaracter A to help me.

kviiri

@NautArch I've settled on them having bonded during a scuffle with the Inquisition, that ought to be good enough for them

I also asked them to reconsider the decision to skip session 0

NautArch

@kviiri if they really don't want a session zero, an email from you summing up how you plan on running things and asking for their input may be a 2nd option.

kviiri

Yea, we normally do a lot of casual same paging and character building on the IRC

It's just insufficient on its own because there's no guarantee everyone read and understood the important bits.

NautArch

@kviiri very true, but it's better than nothing :)

kviiri

16:34

So if the guy who wanted to skip session zero to get more "proper playtime" persists, I'm going to drag them to a voice chat or have them partake in a scheduled IRC session 0.

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron Yes, and Cyprus got invaded for their troubles in the 1500's as I recall the sweep of historical events. (And IIRC, the defenders of the Island really buggered the defense which made the Ottoman invasion less difficult ...)

David Coffron

Anyone here ever done play by post?

Maximillian

16:51

Too slow for my taste. Some players are more responsive than others. Tense/time sensitive situations don't really have the same feel.

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron I signed up for a game along that format at GiTP but never got the PM. We used to do play by mail back in the 80's, but the game we played was more Traveler/Space Opera than Fantasy/Medieval. Once a week turns.

Game went on for about a year, IIRC we had to enclose either 3 or five dollars in the envelope (or maybe it was 5 dollars per player per month? Memory hazy) The real expense was the long distance phone calls with some of the allied space ships we ran into, to coordinate strategy.

> I figure play by post will be similar. But have not yet had a chance to play in game.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Long Distance Phone calls? I guess this was awhile ago :)

Maximillian

Play by mail. Wow.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Yep, mid 80's. I had to stop playing the game since I got deployed to go to sea ... two other players on our team were in the same battlegroup, so they had to stop as well.

> the game went on without us, and when I got back I was not all that keyed up to start again. Life had changed a bit, and I was heading to Texas...

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