TRPG General Chat

trogdor

01:11

I'm the mop I'm the mop I'm the mop?

I don't get why that seemed like the way to breed a dog,... How does it not trip on those unruly hairs? (Or see where it's going)

BESW

01:35

It's thick and warm and water-resistant, and even kind of a protection against predators; they were bred to herd flocks unsupervised for long periods.

That particular dog has been let to grow a bit longer than is really practical, though.

(They're also effectively non-shedding, making them surprisingly non-allergenic.)

Kieran Mullen

Rastafarian dog...

I an' I, mon, we go fight Barky-lon!

BESW

Nah, it's originally Persian and then its breeders moved to the Italian Alps.

Most modern breeds with corded coats are from Central Europe, but descended from much more eastern mountains, mostly from Persia to Tibet.

@trogdor The fur over the eyes also helps prevent snow-blinding.

trogdor

@BESW ah fair enough

BESW

They're basically a built-in sunhat.

trogdor

Someone ought to shave that poor dog a bit then

Just a little

BESW

01:44

It seems to work for them?

Kieran Mullen

So, my Paranoia one-shot went so well that I have been asked to run another. I was thinking of having a cleaning bot rebellion led by a Roomba that achieved self awareness. However, I need some good lines for our plucky hero to inspire the troops.

trogdor

As long as it does I guess

BESW

But yeah, the coat does require periodic maintenance to keep it corded or flocked; un-cared-for "mop" dogs get matted.

Kieran Mullen

"They can take away our wires, but they can't take away our FREEDOM!"

trogdor

@BESW I would not want to be the guy who has to maintain that

Kieran Mullen

01:46

Let me know of any good lines you think of...

BESW

@trogdor So far as I can tell, the closer the breed stays to its working-dog roots the less maintenance it needs. It's the show dogs that really need constant care.

Some of the guides for the bergamasco basically just say "Yeah, when it's a year old the fur gets long enough to mat so you need to rip it apart into cords."

A lot of them, like the bergamasco, aren't just cording. There's two or three different kinds of fur in layers, like an oily bottom layer for weatherproofing, and the cording hair doesn't come in evenly all over the body so it's more likely to cord than mat naturally.

If you see a corded or flocked poodle, though--that thing takes near-constant professional care to get it to cord.

trogdor

Ah cool

Much less nightmarish

Joshua

02:52

We were laughing about a proposed first level spell "summon scone"

BESW

That'd be a very powerful Madness talent in DRYH.

Kieran Mullen

03:35

Beware, for muffin is cruller than a scone giant, if you doughnut know the proper ritual of danish-ment.

Mike Q

@KieranMullen You butter know how. Otherwise you're toast.

Ben

04:17

So, bit of an iffy one last night.

We were playing Savage Worlds, and we were up against a big big bad guy. Based on the juggernaught. He was dealing enough damage that when he hit, he was dealing 2 wounds, (you get 3 total) and we were doing everything we can to just shake the guy.

Then the GM reveals that he placed in an intentional weakness, as if we were somehow meant to know this.

This is after the fact that 2/3 of us were out of action.

Mike Q

04:41

@Ben I've done this once. Once.

If the GM does something to actively clue the weakness, or if they've done "hidden weakness" mechanics before, then it's fair game. Otherwise it's kinda expecting the players to read minds.

Ben

05:01

Yeah. I wouldn't say that he hasn't done this before... But we've never picked up on it before either.

He has stated that he builds his enemies with very specific strengths and weaknesses, but They're never advertised

BESW

Is there a know mechanic or method for determining them, or is it always just whack a mole trial and error?

Kieran Mullen

06:05

Canonically the Juggernaut has a weakness to psychic attacks. But that's the comic book version.

Ben

@BESW pretty much the whackamole approach.

BESW

That's... not great.

Ben

None of us have any real ability to identify strengths and weaknesses. We just play to our own, and hope it works.

BESW

(There's a Court Jester pun in there, but I don't think it works in text.)

Kieran Mullen

"The vessel with the pestle holds the brew that is true"? Or do you mean a different Court Jester?

Axoren

06:30

Has anyone here been in a game with a 5e Mystic? How balanced are they?

Mike Q

@Axoren Yes. Depends on how you define "balance", although up front I'd say they're no more powerful than the PHB spellcasters.

Axoren

@MikeQ If you think about it in terms of the common Tier System

Would you place them with spellcasters or above?

Mike Q

The tier system is a convenient generalization that DMs can use to tweak the difficulty of their games

There are 2 released versions of the mystic, both UA. I'd say they're both "within bounds" of the casters, probably on par with the slow-progression casters

Axoren

Alright. At a glance, me and my group are now starting to evaluate them, and it seems like we feel they're stronger than casters in general.

Mike Q

Wait, apparently they released a 3rd version of the mystic

Axoren

06:42

Mainly because their variety is not limited strictly to casting, they end up with significant "battery power" that lets them get at least as many "spells" as a full caster, and a primary feature allows them to concentrate on multiple powers at once, even though those powers are on par with spellcasting concentration spells.

Mike Q

28 pages of this class?! What the heck WOTC

Axoren

However, they do have limited option arch-types (fewer "spells"), but even Tier 1 spellcasters never really utilize their entire repertoire in combat. At most, Mystics are losing a majority of utility options.

Mike Q

So it looks like the wu jen mystic (2017 version) gets 5th level spell slots at level 9, just like a tier 1 caster. Huh.

Axoren

Not only that, Mystics get Psy powers through Disciplines, which act like scalable spells

At 9th level, they get their maximum output level of 7

Mike Q

The disciplines are so different that it's hard to generalize. Some are basically magic monks, others are sorcerer-like.

Axoren

06:47

Which acts on par with 7th level spells

Mike Q

Well I'll be darned. If you're using this version of mystic, then yes, it is possible to build something on par with a tier 1 caster.

Axoren

At 9th level, the Psionic Weapon Discipline allows Mystics to deal an extra 7d10 on hit, which is roughly as much as a Paladin using a 8th level slot.

There's also other disciplines which replicate basic casting options, like Single Target and AoE damage, let me find them

Mike Q

Still, they lack prepared casting, so I'm hesitant to rank them alongside wizard and cleric

Axoren

You think they go above it because they lack the restriction?

Or that they go below it because spells are better than psi powers?

Mike Q

For players, in the long term, versatility tends to beat raw blasting power.

Axoren

06:52

That's exactly why I see this as a Tier 0 class, and I was just hoping to confirm or be proven wrong.

A player from one of our groups doesn't have a good understanding of intra-party balance, yet, and disagreed with my assessment

Mike Q

Tier 0?

Axoren

Above Tier 1 or "Can't really place it anywhere"

Mike Q

I mean, it really depends on which type of mystic they build

Axoren

Right, they could make the worst character possible with 3 sources of Dark Vision and underwater breathing

Mike Q

And again, no prepared casting, so long-term they're not going to be as wacky as a wizard or cleric

Axoren

06:55

Long-term, they get access to as many as 30 different psi powers.

Without preparation.

Actually, more than that.

But that's a good ballpark estimate

Mike Q

AFAIK, the tier system is for long-term campaign design, assuming a variety of types of challenges and environments

Axoren

It is. It wouldn't make sense to measure a Thief's power in an open field.

Mike Q

Simply put, some problems can't be punched

Axoren

I agree.

Mystic can do more than just punch, though.

Mike Q

In other words, you could have a spontaneous caster who excels at a small set of common problems, but eventually the party will hit some sort of obstacle that they can't overcome given the sorcerer's abilities. Whereas the wizard can just say "No worries guys, let's come back tomorrow and I'll have the right spells to deal with this."

Axoren

06:57

They can, on a whim, satisfy multiple combat, social, and adventuring roles.

BESW

@KieranMullen Giacomo/whack-a-mole.

Axoren

I believe that alone puts them beyond both a Sorcerer and a Wizard, in that they have more spontaneous options than a Sorcerer and that they have as many spontaneous options as a Wizard would ever be expected to need.

BESW

@MikeQ One of the things in most D&D editions that I've always gone back and forth on regarding whether it's a feature or a bug is that using a new class can feel like effectively learning and playing a new game.

Axoren

The "Let's come back tomorrow" phrase is never uttered by a Mystic.

Mike Q

Maybe. Maybe not. I haven't seen this particular version of the mystic in action, only the older version that was much simpler and weaker by comparison

Axoren

07:05

Well, their capstone is also kind of ridiculous, but everyone's should be.

It amounts to "You never lose your character."

Resistance to Physical damage

A bunch of immunities

You don't age, so you can't die of old age

And if you die, you don't

Even Druids and Monks don't live forever, which is thematically, rather than mechanically, overpowered.

BESW

07:20

[amused] In 4e, almost every epic destiny has a feature that starts "Once per day, when you die..." and then describes how you don't.

Axoren

07:58

I feel like final death is an important thing every character needs to face in a fantasy RPG.

If your story never ends, then you've just got a whole lot of escalation, you hit a plateau in character development, everything you do just seems like crazier versions of things you've already done, and then you're moments from realizing you're literally just Dragon Ball Z.

Helwar

@Axoren I read you and I can only think: Drizzt Do'Urden should follow your advice

Axoren

You mean Drizzt Ball Z?

BESW

@Axoren Sure, 4e has death by misadventure--just, around your mid-20s or so you've gotta have it twice in the same day or it won't stick. And at level 30 you start moving toward retirement, whatever that means for your character.

Axoren

"Retirement at 30"

BESW

(4e also does a good job of gating access to abilities and locations so that each tier feels like a good narrative AND mechanical progression.)

Axoren

08:08

I generally have had adventurers retire at 10-13, because that's the level where it's no longer "Adventuring"

And it's more "Earth Special Defense Force Alpha"

Simply because of how ridiculously powerful players are at those levels and the power of things you'd need to throw at them to challenge them.

BESW

Well, again, 4e does a good job of gating access to abilities and locations.

The logarithmic power scale you're talking about doesn't really exist for 4e characters.

Axoren

When do they learn Teleport?

BESW

I don't think the answer to that question is going to give you the information you mean to ask.

Axoren

Because generally, having long-distance unconditional travel is a major part of "You are now shopping around the globe"

And that changes play from "You're exploring the world" to "You run this place."

In settings where this is the norm, you generally have players doing something akin to deep-sea diving into the areas not connected to the Teleportation systems

But this unconditional long-distance travel applies to every realm they can reach

BESW

Right. So... 4e doesn't really do that.

Axoren

08:17

So then how does it tier play?

30 is when you retire, but what are the stages in between?

BESW

It tiers play by access to quick travel, yes, but it divides them into different rituals that are accessible at different levels so there's no sudden "Bam, now you've got a universal passport" moment.

Axoren

Same with 5e, but those stages are closer together towards the end.

BESW

At level 8 you get the ability to make teleportation circles... but they can only dump you out at permanent circles you already know about.

So you have to travel there once, and then you can visit it again easily.

Axoren

You get Teleportation Circle at 5th, Word of Recall at 6th, Teleport at 7th, and Gate at 9th(?)

BESW

Oh, you're talking about spell levels. Forget those, they don't exist in 4e.

You don't need a caster to use transportation magic in 4e, just someone with the Ritual Casting feat and access to the right skills and materials.

Axoren

08:20

Well, those correspond not just to spell levels

But to character levels.

This puts things into the following tiers:
- Going to somewhere with a predetermined address and circle, level 9
- Come home from anywhere, level 11
- Go anywhere you've heard of on the same plane, level 13
- Go to any dimension, level 17

What would those stages be in 4e?

BESW

I'll have to look up the exact rituals, but roughly speaking Heroic Tier (1 through 10) is focused on the Prime, Feywild, and Shadowfell planes, in that order; Paragon Tier (11 through 20) is about the Shadowfell and Elemental Chaos; and Epic Tier is about the Abyss, the Astral Sea, and potentially the Far Realm.

Axoren

So, your 11 through 30 are spaced out versions of our 17 through 20, from just the perspective of traversability within the setting.

Whether or not that directly corresponds to the scale of adventure is something we'd both need to walk a mile in each other's shoes to see.

Maybe characters as low as 13 would make it outside of the Material Plane

But they won't be making it there on their own merits.

BESW

Yeah, and the planes are pretty permeable in 4e so the GM can justify just walking to the Feywild or Shadowfell as the plot demands it, even at level 1--though it'd be a bad idea to linger at level 1.

Axoren

Same with 5e, you can always just find a color pool that leads you into the Astral Plane. And that can take you anywhere.

You could even find yourself at the domain of a deity that hates solicitors, or an elder god that loves solicitors.

Stories don't generally go this way for obvious reasons because they start and end with "You're dead."

BESW

Part of the adventure scale is related to what's in each of those realms, also. The Feywild and Shadowfell are reflections of the Prime plane, while the Elemental Chaos is home to the forces of creation and destruction and the Astral Sea is home to the forces that temper creation and destruction into something livable... and both of those is, in turn, home to pocket dimensions of demons (corrupted elementals), devils (fallen angels), gods, the original creators bound by the gods...

Axoren

08:34

But, it's POSSIBLE

BESW

And the Far Realm is the mind-blowingly unknownable stuff beyond Creation Itself.

Axoren

Is that 4e's version of what I like to call Godheim?

Or is it beyond even that?

BESW

Since I don't know what you like to call Godheim, I don't know.

Axoren

Where the Gods live.

BESW

Hah, no. The gods are third-tier.

The gods are beings of Creation.

They didn't even make Creation.

Axoren

08:38

So is it like a region of Quantum Physics Juice?

Why would a character even go there?

Could you give an example of something that's out there and why players would want to even deal with it?

BESW

The Primordials did that: beings of pure creation and destruction which created all that was originally Creation, including the gods--and then were going to destroy it and start again, like kids in a sandbox, until the gods fought them and bound them.

Nobody knows what's outside Creation. One of the cool things about 4e is that it leaves a lot of "here's what people guess but we won't ever say for sure" in their worldbuilding.

But aberrations like mind flayers are apparently the result of exposure to, or influence from, whatever's... out there.

Axoren

I see, so things like the Great Old Ones exist out there.

BESW

And warlocks can make pacts with certain stars that seem to be more like peepholes for Things which want to destroy all Creation forever.

Yes, basically the Far Realm is 4e's solution to previous editions going "Oh, and the devs like Lovecraft too."

In my own games, I treated it as a body in which Creation is a cyst or a cancer.

Axoren

Seems very Homestucky

BESW

Aberrations and Outer Beings are antibodies and white blood cells and other defensive mechanism working to encapsulate, or break down, or expel the contaminant.

Axoren

08:43

But that would explain why the things on the outside would be like "No, eww. Get rid of it."

BESW

Which is why they don't work together much--each has its own method of dealing with the situation.

I don't know anything about Homestuck.

Axoren

The world is a frog made by some kids and the world they're in has cancer, it's a real tragedy. Everyone dies, the end.

^All you'll ever need to know about Homestuck unless you plan to read it.

It's not even really a spoiler because I'm being facetious.

But it's kind of also 100% accurate. The story is too zany.

However, the author put a lot of work into the creation mythos, which makes it a really interesting story in that regard.

BESW

Magician and I also came up with the idea that the reason there's only ever one tarrasque is that it's an unhatched Far Realm creature, and Creation is its egg, and aberrations are parasites and symbiotes living in the egg.

Axoren

So, it's just trying to eat until it's big enough to get out of the shell?

Neoares

someone here plays Black Desert Online?

Axoren

08:50

I do, but it's not installed.

Question or did you need help with something in game?

Neoares

just question

Axoren

Go ahead.

Neoares

I'm a pro player xD

Axoren

I'm not.

Neoares

I can be your sensei

Axoren

08:51

Some day, maybe.

Today, it's not even installed.

What's the question?

Neoares

there's no question

I was just curious

Axoren

So, "Someone here plays Black Desert Online?" was the question.

Neoares

yes

Axoren

There's definitely a lot more players of it at Arqade, I'm pretty sure.

BESW

Hi! Are you looking for the video game chat room? You're welcome here, obviously, and we do talk about video games sometimes, but this is the chat room associated with tabletop roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons.

Axoren

08:52

Here is the chat for more tabletop RPG players

Neoares

because I saw it was a RPG chat

ooooh true! :(

Axoren

BDO is definitely not a tabletop game, lol

Neoares

like, MTG or warhammer?

I used to play MTG

Axoren

More like Warhammer, less like MTG

BESW

Warhammer 40K is a tabletop RPG.

Axoren

08:52

Think D&D

Neoares

ooh, I always wanted to play D&D

BESW

Trading-card games are talked about on Board & Card Games.

Neoares

you could even have a private room to play D&D or something similar

@BESW thanks for all the info :)

Axoren

It's currently 5am in the states, but we have a lot of users world-wide in the chat. If you're looking for a game, someone might be starting something. I know I've seen a couple of users here mention something from time to time.

I don't think many people are up-and-about now.

Neoares

I guess

BESW

08:55

Yeah, we have a dedicated dice service and sometimes play games in side chats.

Axoren

There's also dedicated websites for Looking for Groups on Roll20, Reddit, etc,

Don't know if RPG.SE has a chatroom for it.

BESW

Here, basically.

Doesn't work out a lot because we're from so many different time zones.

Axoren

Yeah, there's no dedicated room for it. Just checked. This is sort of an "everything at-least-kind-of-related-to RPG" chat, but also off-topic discussion.

BESW

Dedicated rooms tend to wither and die from neglect, so they're only made when a topic is creating so much talk that it's shoving out all other discussion in this room.

For example, when Fate Core was released we made a Fate chat/game room for talking and playtesting.

Similarly the early days of 5e required multiple new rooms which eventually withered and now 5e discussion can happen here without blasting out every other topic.

(I'm in and out right now, a bit distracted with helping my dad get to bed and also talking with a friend about the concept of prophets in different religions.)

BESW

09:36

> 1: Traveler's Chant (increase walking speed while traveling)
6: Find the Path (locate best path to destination and travel more quickly en route)
6: Phantom Steed (summon speedy traveling horses)
6: Fey Passage (shift to corresponding location in Feywild)
8: Linked Portal (teleport to known Teleportation Circle on same plane)
8: Shadow Passage (shift to corresponding location in Shadowfell)
10: Eagles' Flight (summon eagles to fly you quickly all day)
10: Trailblaze (move more quickly over difficult natural terrain)

Not a complete list, but gives a general idea of how ease-of-travel progression works in 4e.

As you can see, you basically never get fast-and-easy teleport wherever you want functionality in 4e. Getting to a new unknown place is always going to take time: either to travel there slowly, or to research the nearest Teleportation Circle or get a really good description of it.

And most of those rituals requires a skill check--often Arcana, but sometimes Nature or something else depending on the flavor of the ritual.

But they don't require any particular class features, just a feat anybody can take.

doppelgreener

I have Binti 2 and 3!

BESW

Woo!

They are awesome.

doppelgreener

I'm looking forward to reading them.

BESW

09:54

I'm looking forward to your thoughts!

goodguy5

11:42

mornin boiz

eimyr

Hiya everyone

wave @trogdor

trogdor

Hello

NautArch

12:38

howdy howdy

eimyr

[crickets]

KorvinStarmast

@Axoren I very much agree with your PoV on that; mortality makes a character more interesting.

BESW

Personally I find that while death is often a good threat, it usually makes for a very boring outcome. Interesting characters have more at stake than whether they continue to exist.

Tonight I made oatmeal cookies with calamansi and ginger, using aquafaba instead of egg.

eimyr

@BESW What is aquafaba, in your words?

KorvinStarmast

@BESW Hmm, that sounds a lot like Greek Mythology (your description of the 4e Primordials)

@BESW Did you mean by that "death makes for a boring outcome" or did I miss something there?

BESW

12:52

@eimyr Bean water. The gloppy, proteiny liquid you siphon off a can of beans (usually garbanzos because they have the least taste but I like using beans that complement what I'm cooking), which can be used in place of egg whites for almost any recipe.

KorvinStarmast

The reason I ask is that we recently had a paladin do the old "you all flee, I'll hold them off" and that Paladin died: heroic death saving the rets of us sort of deal.

eimyr

@BESW If a threat is boring and therefore unlikely to make the game more interesting if it comes to pass, wouldn't it make it a bad threat for a genre-savvy group of players?

BESW

@KorvinStarmast Yes, death usually makes for a boring outcome. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary is why I say "usually."

eimyr

@BESW Oh! I've heard of it being used like that, but only in the context of making vegan whipped egg whites.

BESW

@eimyr Yes, but a story-savvy group of players will be able to play into the character's anxiety over the threat without the players needing to fear it.

@eimyr Yup, you can use it in almost any other thing that calls for egg whites too, especially baking.

So if a recipe calls for ordinary eggs but you could use egg whites instead, you could also use aquafaba.

I like making cornbread muffins with black bean aquafaba.

KorvinStarmast

12:55

@BESW Yeah, I can see what you are getting at. IF the death adds to drama/story, it can be good/heroic; if it simply ends one characters story (particularly with a save or suck) then ... blah most of the time.

BESW

@KorvinStarmast It goes back to the good old "fail forward" trick, and how death is hard to make fail forward.

eimyr

@BESW I'd have a hard time having bleed of those emotions, especially if I know death is a failure situation rather than a game-over.

BESW

@eimyr Hence why I started the whole thing with "personally I find..."

KorvinStarmast

@BESW I think there's a meta element to PC death in some systems that varies the flavor on that. In Original Traveller, it began a side game of creating the new character for that player. (We eventually learned to create a few each during creation session, so that "someone to meet at the spaceport" was already made).

eimyr

@BESW I haven't played much with your people and I'm surprised to hear it serves as a motivator (if that's indeed the case), that's why I commented.

KorvinStarmast

12:59

> We had an Q&A that I liked about someone trying to get their 8th level bard to die on purpose (my basic advice was to jump off of a really tall cliff, but there was more to it) that was a mix between meta (tired of this character) and "how do I make this death something that isn't mundane or "I want to re roll because I am bored."

BESW

@KorvinStarmast True. It matters more to players in games where character creation and progression involves significant sunk costs that are lost when your character dies.

@eimyr Character death serves as a motivator for characters, and a lever for interesting scenes.

eimyr

@BESW +1

BESW

When we're playing games where the focus is on inter-character drama, the threat of death can be a good tool for exploring characters and relationships.

For example, one PC picked a fight with her surrogate father in the middle of a high-stakes stealth mission. Even while they were being attacked by ninjas who'd found their position because of the argument, they continued the argument.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW what interested me was the other answers on the "I want to kill my own character in game" mostly said "why? Just roll up another one" ... but I liked the challenge of trying to come up with a way in-game to try it out, if one wanted to.

BESW

This was a use of the threat of death to underscore that something else was more important to them: confronting her "father" was more important to her than her own survival in that moment.

(cf Luke trying to turn Vader back to the Light when he knew that it was likely to get himself killed when his friends blew up the Death Star.)

@KorvinStarmast I've worked with players on some spectacular death scenes as a way to say goodbye to certain characters.

One player left island suddenly enough that he couldn't roleplay his own exit, so I worked with him on a suitable alternative scenario to give his story some closure.

KorvinStarmast

13:06

@BESW It can be cool ... anyway, be well all, RL summons.

Derpy

@BESW that remind me when about one year after I had silently left my old UO server.... I discovered that now I somehow had a statue in the main plaza of one of the cities in the game.

BESW

Nice.

doppelgreener

@Derpy wow! that's kinda cool

was it a memorial statue to you having left? :P

Derpy

@doppelgreener basically, complete with a rock with a sword I never had in the first place ^_^'

doppelgreener

@Derpy aww. :' )

that's sweet.

Derpy

13:14

I think I later managed to have them replace with an actual one i had.

@doppelgreener oh, to be fair that probably was the work of just one or two staff members.

It was a small private server, about 100-150 players on average on peak hours. For a time, I was helping with some work.

Mainly managing the paladin "guild" (not an actual guild, but we had a sort of codex everyone had to follow. One of the task I fitted was watching over the new ones)

SPavel

New York real estate makes me sad

NautArch

13:28

@SPavel But you're almost in peak rotting garbage in the heat season!

goodguy5

questions like "is there a system that ______" are usually shopping questions, right?

well... I think this IS RGitH season.

Much hotter and it's just cooked garbage

SPavel

@NautArch Rotting garbage season is actually when rental prices go up

BESW

@goodguy5 Right. But often they can be re-phrased as "I want to do ____ in ____ situation with ____ group, how can I do it?"

SPavel

@BESW As a __________ I want _____________ so that I can _____________?

goodguy5

I've always wanted a military game that resembles Call of Duty...

In that the advancement is done in the way of perks and equipment slots (req points, lets say).

BESW

13:33

@SPavel Yup.

SPavel

I think all Stack questions should be rephrased as user stories.

goodguy5

I feel like I could heavily modify something like either delta green or only war

BESW

@goodguy5 The Stargate SG-1 game had elements of that. Alas, it was also laboring under the d20 System.

Derpy

@SPavel is that a question or an User Story?

oh, wait, you already said that :P

sorry

Sir Cinnamon

Anyone here played Pandemic Legacy?

Rubiksmoose

13:44

@SirCinnamon Yes!

Shamefully only about 1/3 of it though

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose Attempted march last night and a rules question came up that i've posted to the board games stack exchange

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Hit me. I'll see if I can help.

Sir Cinnamon

Should be spoiler free, only relates to info from the beginning

0

Q: How do character upgrades interact with Dispatcher's special ability?

(This should be spoiler free, all of this info is available at the start of the season.) In our game we upgraded the dispatcher with the ability to Charter Flight without discarding the card. I forget the name of this upgrade but it seems especially powerful since the dispatcher can then move an...

pandemic-legacy-season-1

Rubiksmoose

Good question. I'd have to take a look at the exact wording of the abilities, but it honestly seems like that is a valid way to use the upgrade.

We never used the Dispatcher in our game since it was just my wife and I and they are much better when you have 4 people.

Sir Cinnamon

Yeah for sure, i feel like dispatcher is such a group effort to plan turns for because there are just so many possibilities

"you could move him 3 then teleport her to him and get 6 moves for the price of 4, or you could walk one here then teleport him to there and set up this trade...."

and with that upgrade Dispatcher has a 3 action trade any card combo

so we dump cards from dispatcher to scientist

Rubiksmoose

13:51

Scientist we have definitely made heavy use of. We've upgraded them to be able to hold more cards and to draw from the discard.

But yeah Dispatcher is definitely a role that rewards very careful coordination and planning.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose The draw from the discard thats the Rival relationship one?

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Yup good call. I couldn't remember the name but I'm 99% sure that is correct.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose Thats the only relationship we have used so far as well, between QS and Dispatcher

It's been a lot of fun so far. We lost last night but somewhat strategically. It wasnt an overly damaging loss

Rubiksmoose

14:06

@SirCinnamon We like it as well. We really need to play more. We've had one pretty bad loss so far. The game gets even better pretty soon for you I think.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose The changes each month have been very exciting, i look forward to opening all the little packets and tabs, Something very primal about opening a present haha

Anaphory

14:52

TIL that if you put chocolate chunks in dough, it's hard to roll the dough thinner than the biggest chunks.

Hypersapien

What are you making that has chocolate chunks in it, but needs to be rolled out?

NautArch

VTC designer reasons?

Sir Cinnamon

Agreed

Anaphory

15:11

@Hypersapien I tried varyinig a cheesecake recipe to include strawberries and chocolate.

I had some leftover dark chocolate and thought I could chop it into pieces and add it to the base layer of the cheesecake.

Hypersapien

Yeah, you should grate chocolate for something like that.

Anaphory

Yes, I should've.

Rubiksmoose

Man, I leave for an hour and you guys get all the questions lol.

goodguy5

why is this question downvoted?
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124769/square-feet-and-squares-5-foot-squares-5ft-sq

(other than my upvote)

Mike Q

15:27

I didn't downvote, but presumably folks may see it as a math question due to confusion about dimensions vs area. It has at least one mis-tag, and may seem off-topic.

Rubiksmoose

I mean it does only have one downvote. I personally don't find it down-vote worthy.

goodguy5

that's a worse reason than the "interpersonal isnt rpg!"

Mike Q

Again, I didn't downvote, so I'm not trying suggest there is a strong reason to downvote/close it

NautArch

can everyone access this link. And what does it say as the source on the bottom of the page?

Mike Q

@NautArch "Basic Rules, pg. 21" ?

Sir Cinnamon

15:32

@NautArch Eladrin (Variant) with the misty step verison of Fey Step

basic rules pg 21

doppelgreener

@NautArch You need https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/races/elf#EladrinVariant, i.e. #EladrinVariant not #Eladrin at the end of the link

But yes, I can access that. The #Eladrin version just takes me to the top of the page, this one takes me to the Eladrin section.

(.... unless it's called just Eladrin in your version, in which case I have a bone to pick with the page designers)

Yuuki

@doppelgreener Make sure it's a femur, that's where all the good marrow is.

GreySage

@NautArch I can access it, but there is no source information

Sir Cinnamon

@doppelgreener It very well could be that if your account has Mordenkainens then that page includes the updated official Eladrin

doppelgreener

If I CTRL+F "source" on that page, I only get one occurrence and it's in the paragraph about subrace.

Sir Cinnamon

15:35

And otherwise shows the variant

doppelgreener

@SirCinnamon oof.

Sir Cinnamon

@doppelgreener Which is bad design for a site claiming to be a one stop rules reference

At the very least it should show the headings of all extant races and a note about which book you need to see that content

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ I think you may be thinking of dndwiki

NautArch

@SirCinnamon that's annoying that the same page provides different information depending on what sources youv'e purchased.

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch I cant confirm that it does, I'm speculating

Do you see the new Mordenkainens eladrin?

doppelgreener

15:38

@SirCinnamon that would be my preference. On D&D 4e I could use the compendium even as a free user to search for options by keyword, and it'd give me back a feature name and the book it was featured in. If it was one I owned, I could look it up in my book.

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose oops (whistles innocently)

Rubiksmoose

DnDB does the same thing with the class pages as well. If you look at the Bard class you'll see all the bard stuff from sources you've purchases. But, IIRC, nothing to indicate the stuff from sources you don't own.

doppelgreener

The exception is when the thing was in more than one book, in which case the compendium would unhelpfully say "Multiple Sources" instead of what they were.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose Thats bad from a a marketing and game desing standpoint

doppelgreener

@SirCinnamon That would be cool

NautArch

15:41

@SirCinnamon I opened it incognito and the Official version is not there. That's really annoying for a page that supposedly is Basic Rules isn't actually Basic Rules.

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Have confirmed. The Bard page only shows Lore College whereas, if logged in, I get all of them.

doppelgreener

Acknowledging the existence of other variants that could exist on the same page is at the very least going to help me understand what on earth another player is talking about, and in the best case would get me buying that material because I want all the Elf variants or whatever.

NautArch

Now I don't ever know if what i'm linking to is universally accessible unless I double check it not isgned in.

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch Wow yeah, thats a terrible way to handle that

NautArch

@SirCinnamon awful UI.

Sir Cinnamon

15:42

All purchase locked content should be labelled and all pages without that content should have an indication that you could get more by purchasing

Rubiksmoose

Anything under the BasicRules url should be unaffected by login status right?

NautArch

What's stranger isi that the Basic Rules include a variant from the DMG (which you have to pay for) but not Mordenkainen's (which you ahve to pay for)

nitsua60

The AngryGM: The Website: The Book Kickstarter is live today!

doppelgreener

don't you mean ": The Kickstarter Project"?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Where do the basic rules do that?

nitsua60

15:47

@doppelgreener Prolly: could use a few more colons: correct.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Eladrin(Variant) is included. That's from the DMG.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose On DnDBeyond he means

Rubiksmoose

You mean here? dndbeyond.com/characters/races/elf#EladrinVariant

Sir Cinnamon

And I can confirm that the basic rules PDF (phb and dmg) do not make any mention of eladrin or fey step

Yuuki

@nitsua60 One could always use more colons. You never know when one might become cancerous.

NautArch

15:49

@SirCinnamon It doesn't include the Eladrin(variant)?

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch Not the free PDF

dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

NautArch

@SirCinnamon /facepalm

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch That link I just posted (and the one I think you are talking about) is not a link to Basic Rules.

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose But the thing is, as a free user, I should only be able to see content that is in the basic rules, but that includes Not Basic Rules.

or at least that is the theory

NautArch

That's what my page looks like (see bottom right corner)

Rubiksmoose

15:52

@doppelgreener Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing there. That would make the most sense. (And I have no idea what logic goes into what gets shown outside the BR stuff)

doppelgreener

@NautArch i see that too

NautArch

I guess if they cite it as basic, I can post that image? :D

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Very interesting. That looks like a straight up mistake to me. I think someone accidentally categorized that as basic rules.

GreySage

@NautArch I see the same pg 21 reference, but fey step is just misty step 1/rest

NautArch

@GreySage Right, the Basic Rules(?) page is not a static page, but generated based on content you've purchased. Great idea, wizards :/.

Rubiksmoose

15:55

@NautArch What link do you take to get that image?

Transcript for