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Ben
Ben
12:00 AM
@MikeQ Thankfully, no XD
 
trogdor
trogdor
@Ben dragoooooooonsssssssss
 
Ben
Ben
Our Savage Worlds game has also taken a very interesting twist.
We have 3 players: Myself, playing the "Alcoholic Spiderman"; A "Robot Ninja" by the name of "Kowami-8" (as in the "8th model"); and an old Iron-man-type character, by the name of "Scrap Attack".
 
Mike Q
Mike Q
I can't tell which one is the comic relief. That's a good sign.
 
Ben
Ben
So, after a run-in with the "Power Corp" (the super hero organisation that are the "face" of the super heroes in NYC) where I shot one guy in the face with webbing after he made snarky remarks about my character, they noticed something: My webbing contained DNA (my DNA, obviously), that was an exact match to the samples of webbing they have found as part of an investigation that had been on-going for several years now.
Obviously, this throws up red flags, both for Power Corp, because this evidence pins me doing bad stuff around town, and for me, for the same reason. Additionally, since they know who the web samples belong to, the investigation is going to lead into my back-story, which I obviously don't want, as that will unveil my "secret identity".
So, at this stage, the only possible explanation outside of me doing bad stuff while sleep walking, is that there must be a clone.
So, in an attempt to steer the investigation away from me (the Supersoldier program that gave me my powers was shut down, but has since been re-instated by a 3rd party), we find that there is also a copy of Kowami-8
Following up that trail (the imposter attacked an ally, but thankfully they managed to defend themselves, killing the imposter with an EMP), we discover that this is a future version of Kowami - as in this is "Kowami-17". A far more advanced and upgraded version of our current Robot-Ninja friend.
So, this inspires brain storms... perhaps my "clone" isn't in fact a clone, but perhaps a future version of myself?
 
BESW
BESW
12:21 AM
Clearly's it's a clone of the future you from an alternate dimension.
And probably also an android.
 
Ben
Ben
Additionally, we have had multiple run-ins with a BBEG called "Futura". This guy runs a tech-development company, by the same name. As part of our investigation, we rescue the "CEO", who turned out to just be a guy paid to take the fall if anyone came knocking. This guy's name is "Geoff Rhys" - and Scrap Attack's actual name is "Phillip Jeffries". Additionally, this Futura character has been in personal contact with Scrap Attack, stating that he is "very disappointed" in his actions.
Our current theories have led to this: Futura is living in a pocket dimension, outside the flow of time in our dimension, and is controlling events in the past, to achieve the future he wants. Futura is a future version of Scrap Attack, and has possibly no memory of his past, which is why he (potentially?) didn't recognise his past self: Geoff Rhys.
We also learned that Kowami's origin story, and mine are the same: in the 1940's there was a fight between two extra-terrestrial beings: one was a robot, the other was an organic creature, with an ability to adapt its genetic structure.
They fought, and the robot was captured, the alien was killed.
Kowami was built from the robot, and the Supersoldier program was created from this alien's ability to transform its DNA based on exposure to other creature's DNA
So needless to say we left that session feeling thoroughly frazzled
 
 
2 hours later…
Axoren
Axoren
3:03 AM
@doppelgreener That die question was a pretty dope ride.
 
 
1 hour later…
Trish
Trish
4:26 AM
what category was "link only answers"?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
I dunno... seeing greener ask mainsite if d7's fair? It's like watching mommy and daddy yell at each other.
@Trish Like, flag-category?
 
Trish
Trish
yep.
quality?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Either VLQ or custom (just "link-only" as the custom text) would do.
(Is VLQ available for answers? I'm not seeing it in my flag-menu, but maybe mine looks different now?)
 
Trish
Trish
well, they could take the gist from the video, so Quality...
yes, Very Low Quality is....
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Interesting. I can't mark things VLQ any more. But I can "Destroy" things. Oh, the times, they are a-changin'.
 
Trish
Trish
4:32 AM
DIAMONDS make things harder, don't they?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Trish Yeah, but they look great on hats =)
 
Trish
Trish
Or fingers, or ears, or sheeple and shersons.
Or in the vault for the matter.
 
trogdor
trogdor
@nitsua60 is something actually going on or do you mean that more lightly than it sounds?
 
BESW
BESW
 
 
2 hours later…
Helwar
Helwar
6:19 AM
@Ben that sounds oddly familiar...
 
 
2 hours later…
Tiggerous
Tiggerous
8:26 AM
RE: Reviewing low quality posts: Where's the line between recommending deletion (because it's currently low quality) and leaving there (because if the user pays attention to a helpful comment they could fix the issue). Deleting new users bad posts too quickly feels like a missed opportunity (even if they are objectively bad at point of deletion).
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Anaphory I also meant to comment on this that it's "Turusta" because Finnish place names can use either inner or outer locatives with no clear logic to which comes when :P it's one of those things that keeps bugging me all the time
 
Tiggerous
Tiggerous
Take this link only answer for instance. It's bad, but if the user come back and takes Purple Monkey's advice it could be OK.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Tiggerous I personally think it's better to provide a bit of leeway to new users
not leeway as in "don't delete anything from new users" but as in "give them enough time to fix their stuff"
 
Tiggerous
Tiggerous
That's why if there's a helpful comment posted I don't always recommend deletion. Others can see the comment too, so it's unlikely to encourage other poor answers, especially as the answer won't be gathering lots of upvotes (and the comment might have upvotes).
 
kviiri
kviiri
8:57 AM
@HellSaint I like your question!
I don't have a very good answer though... my players seldom fight over loot</brag mood="humble">
it's not all positive though, eg. in the game before the last one player was so disinterested in anything but getting a better weapon that they completely ignored any other loot, including magic items intended to make his game revolve less around "hit it with axe" because that was boring him silly.
 
Skyler
Skyler
Hey guys, I want to try and do a small one shot of fate accelerated to get a few players comfortable with the system and working together to make sure we actually understand the system before committing to a long term campaign (since we've also been considering fate core)
any ideas about what might be a good checklist of scenarios we should put ourselves into to actually hit all the broad categories of things we need to do to explore most of the system
I want to try and do this in a couple of hours tops, im thinking of calling the Setting "man-bear-pig", players pick three animals as the high concept to then generate their character from, pick a trouble, and then the ball gets rolling
 
kviiri
kviiri
Based on my limited experience, I'd make sure that your players have read the rules and understand what aspects are about and what they're NOT about
Aspects were by far the trickiest part of Fate for me, in our introductory game
 
Skyler
Skyler
9:18 AM
@kviiri I suspect so, I did a bit of an intro game with a couple of folks so I've DMed a tiny bit a few months, only one of those players is with me now but they're not the type to really have remembered that well. Tbh he might be the most likely to mix things up at the table.
I also really want a chance to try that cooperative dynamic
Since its very different from the DnD they've done before
 
BESW
BESW
@Skyler I talk about my first Fate session starting here.
 
Steve Woods
Steve Woods
Hi.
 
BESW
BESW
@SteveWoods Hello!
 
Skyler
Skyler
hey @BESW, did I ever tell you that I accidentally predicted one of the major moments of TLJ with my first attempt at Fate?
 
BESW
BESW
Storytelling engines are fun that way!
 
Skyler
Skyler
9:25 AM
also do you have any recommendations for players who have a tough time being creative? I am trying to do some kind of really crazy one shot to get players creatively contributing and pallette cleanse from our DnD days
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Skyler Provocative questions work, at least for those who are creative but a bit shy about expressing that spontaneosly
 
BESW
BESW
Read the GM advice in Lady Blackbird.
 
Skyler
Skyler
good point kviiri
and ill look for that now
 
BESW
BESW
Download Lady Blackbird here. "Running the Game" is the top half of page 9.
 
Skyler
Skyler
wow thats a short rulebook
 
BESW
BESW
9:32 AM
Yeah, the rest of the rules are the bottom half of each player's character sheet.
It's a great pick-up-and-play game.
 
Skyler
Skyler
I mean FAE isnt much bigger but damn
Whats your opinion though on FAE vs Fate Core for a long term campaign @BESW?
 
BESW
BESW
Campaign length doesn't matter, except inasmuch as reduced complexity makes it easier to start short games quickly.
For long-form games, the question to ask is whether approaches, skills, or some other mechanism like aspect-only, will best fit the tone and style of the game.
 
kviiri
kviiri
I had some initial friction with the approaches, which came as a surprise to me
 
Skyler
Skyler
How so?
 
BESW
BESW
Approaches are surprising to folks who are used to skills, because they aren't.
 
Skyler
Skyler
9:37 AM
also just so you have a better idea this FAE vs Fate Core decision is for a Star Wars Universe campaign
 
kviiri
kviiri
The surprise comes from the fact that the game I'm the best at, Apocalypse World, uses "approaches" too. No skills like "shooting" or "conversation" or so, only Hard for things where you need to be aggressive, Hot for situations where you need to be social etc.
 
BESW
BESW
Approaches are more like TV logic, where the Forceful soldier is equally good at endurance running, kicking down doors, and winning staring contests, while the Careful scientist can do computer things, forensic things, and botany things.
@Skyler For Star Wars, I'd go with approaches or aspect-only.
 
kviiri
kviiri
But the key difference is, AW approaches are predetermined to apply to certain moves.
 
BESW
BESW
But one of the problems with Star Wars games is... it's a sprawling franchise and not all versions of it have the same tone.
For a film-based game, I'd go with approaches or aspect-only. But if I'm going for more of an SW video game feel, I might consider skills instead.
 
kviiri
kviiri
There's a degree of judgment call involved in both: In Apocalypse World, it's "which move, if any, is this?" and the "approach" follows naturally. In FAE, it's "which action and approach is this?" I find the easier call far easier to make - although it's convenient to remember that I have played and studied Apocalypse World orders of magnitude more.
AW has left a very strong mark in my style of playing and mastering. It was a very formative experience for me.
I'm still glad I tried out Fate though, and would gladly partake in some if one of my friends was running it :)
 
BESW
BESW
9:43 AM
I'm currently bouncing between prepping for Fate of Agaptus, Cthulhu Confidential, and Misspent Youth.
 
Skyler
Skyler
The one thing that I'm still trying to wrap my head around is how people will feel like their character changes over time with the milestones. It really just sounds like if its done wrong youre swapping out a flavor text for another one
 
BESW
BESW
It's a little confusing.
@Skyler Changes are driven by narrative.
And since the changes are directly tied into the mechanics--changing an aspect changes what you can invoke and how you get compelled--it then tangibly feeds back into the narrative.
 
Skyler
Skyler
But is there a natural progression in how broad they are, or how they apply to the narrative, that a newbie GM can help corral his even newbier players towards
 
BESW
BESW
I'm not sure what you're asking.
 
Skyler
Skyler
Say we hit a significant milestone, and a player asked me "what should i do"
They can do a lot of things but is there really nothing to worry about and my response should be "how has your character changed in the narrative, work on that"
 
BESW
BESW
9:52 AM
You probably have a sense of what seems important about the character's recent experiences and can make suggestions, but there's no need to make changes at milestones.
Heck, I've basically ripped out the "add a skill/refresh point" parts of milestones in all my games.
 
Skyler
Skyler
heh
ok
 
BESW
BESW
Really, I use milestones as... suggestions.
If an aspect isn't working out the way it ought to, it needs to be changed because it's not accurately reflecting the story we're telling--that takes place outside of milestones, because it's corrective.
And when the narrative changes something, aspects about the thing can change right then because aspects are just mechanical markers on bits of story saying "this is important, remember it and use it!"
Ditto swapping out skills/approaches.
Milestones are more like.... reminders to check and see if those things have happened, and that you should modify mechanics as necessary.
 
Skyler
Skyler
Given how collaborative Fate is, does it lend itself to swapping GMs well?
 
BESW
BESW
Rules like "only major milestones allow changing high concepts" are reminders that characters usually change slowly or in response to massive events, and that a character whose high concept changes too frequently is probably either a weak character or stealing the spotlight from others too much.
You can ask @trogdor and @doppelgreener for their experiences in sharing the GMing duties across a single campaign, but from my perspective it's been a great success.
 
Skyler
Skyler
Great, because I kind of want to set this up to be pretty self-sufficient, which is why I want to get everybody really quickly use to the feel of Fate quickly
 
BESW
BESW
10:05 AM
This is r🐘:
37
A: How do I convince my group to try a new system without always having to DM it first?

BESWI've had similar challenges, both with getting group buy-in to try new systems and with getting people to feel comfortable GMing anything at all. My solution was a long-game process of changing the "landscape" of how people at the table viewed their role in the game. I didn't set out to delibera...

 
trogdor
trogdor
@BESW i enjoyed running sessions for that
 
kviiri
kviiri
I saw that and said "oh, this one, I wish I could upvote that twice"
Then I noticed I had somehow not upvoted it the first time
 
trogdor
trogdor
Any issues I did have were at the very least not due to sharing GM duties
 
BESW
BESW
@kviiri It's one of the few answers where I really feel like I was able to bring the full weight of my experience and learning to bear.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BESW I know that feeling ^^
 
Helwar
Helwar
10:12 AM
@BESW when our friend group tried that, it was utter caos. Fun. But also not fun... I remember every time we swapped DMs, our group suddenly got captured and our magic weapons got stolen, then another kind of weird magic items that the new DM thought were more interesting or balanced were presented to us. Story made no sense, EVER, so that wasn't a concern xD
 
kviiri
kviiri
For quite a long time I considered this answer on Math.SE regarding the Pumping Lemma to be my best answer SE-wide, mainly because I kept linking it to people who wanted examples of how to prove stuff with the Pumping Lemma.
 
BESW
BESW
"Pumping Lemma" would be a good name for an EDM band.
 
kviiri
kviiri
Right on!
 
Skyler
Skyler
@kviiri lol, when I read the original question even though I've done plenty of math as a physics graduate my eyes glossed over. You're answer though is a lot more tractable
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Skyler Yeah, I didn't get what they were trying either. But the Pumping Lemma has a reputation of being easy to misunderstand.
I mean, there's a nice mixture of "prove for any" and "prove for all"
 
Skyler
Skyler
10:22 AM
still makes me wish I had the free units to take that introduction to abstract math course, since I've used similar methods but gosh I'm having a tricky time picturing the mapping of these symbols to the problem
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW I agree, sharing GMing duties has been very successful. o/
 
Skyler
Skyler
Yay,
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Skyler I think everyone does :P
I'm just good at the thin slice of math I choose to do
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Fate is a very well-suited system to that as well. Fate gets the players in on the secrets, so they can better walk their characters face-first into problems. It also encourages leaving most things blank or only semi-defined until such time they need definition. Both of those factors mean any player is already well-equipped to pick up the GM mantle.
Fate also has you play in Director stance a lot of the time--regularly stepping out of your character's own mind to look at things from on high and see what would be fun to have happen or what would be fun to have them do, for yourself and for others. That's very similar to the GM's point of view, so you're already prepared for looking at the game that way once you pick up GMing.
(stances being summarised here in this answer fairly well)
 
Tiggerous
Tiggerous
@doppelgreener Reading this meta (you linked to in a comment) and struggling to understand when [system-agnostic] is ever an appropriate tag? Surely 'How can I make an excellent pirate adventure?' tagged system-agnostic would just be closed as too broad?
 
kviiri
kviiri
10:27 AM
@Tiggerous It has my vote for being too broad.
 
Skyler
Skyler
So earlier I mentioned I wanted to try and run a funky session to clear peoples heads of DnD and get them feeling prepped for playing Fate. How much (little) of an idea for a game can I go in with. So far the only thing I was thinking of proposing was that every character for their high concept wrote 3 animals seperated by a dash and was a chimera of those 3 animals.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Tiggerous It's not very, nowadays. That stance arose at the site's beginning in 2011-ish, and made more sense back then. More recently, around 2013-2014, as a community we more or less pivoted on how we handled questions and systems... and the system-agnostic tag became a lot less relevant to current day.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Skyler I think some same-paging is always good
 
Tiggerous
Tiggerous
@doppelgreener OK - that makes sense. Thanks.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
In 2012 it was frequently used. Nowadays not very much. My personal feeling nowadays is that it is never needed and almost never appropriate or the right choice.
 
Skyler
Skyler
10:30 AM
@kviiri any chance for an elaboration on that one
 
BESW
BESW
@Skyler Roll for Shoes.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Skyler Well... a minimal introduction to "what you'll be playing as" doesn't exactly help the players figure out what the game is going to be like, or about
I've learned that lesson the hard way :P
 
BESW
BESW
 
Tiggerous
Tiggerous
@doppelgreener How did your pirate adventure go?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Skyler Whilst Fate is very friendly to improv, you do need to go into the gameplay with a firm idea of the world to be played in and how it works, what can/can't happen and what is/isn't likely or reasonable. Very often the first session is pretty much just a worldbuilding session where you decide on those things and don't yet launch into character gameplay.
 
Skyler
Skyler
10:34 AM
yea, the biggest hurdle I can see with the players I have is getting them to switch into that collaborative mindset since they are use to just being players ala DnD.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Tiggerous I didn't actually have one in mind, that was just an example I pulled up for the question since it was a suitable rhetorical device for the discussion. (Lots of games can have pirate adventures.)
 
kviiri
kviiri
Eg. I've quite often fallen into the trap of "let's play <system> as an <adjective> <genre>" only to find out that people have different conceptions on what <adjective> and <genre> really mean
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
I agree that if you want to go in with almost nothing, Roll for Shoes is more appropriate. :)
 
Skyler
Skyler
So thats why I feel like the pick your chimera isnt quite enough (even if this is something like a one-shot or an exercise). I mean I'd obviously talk to them about the system, but I guess my question is how much should I come in with pre-baked for total newcomers.
 
BESW
BESW
But if you want to go for a "shake them out of D&D" one-shot... what about Lady Blackbird?
 
Skyler
Skyler
10:36 AM
@BESW I guess that's a pretty good point
 
BESW
BESW
It's got solid structure and tone already established, a system that encourages innovative player agency, and is fast to pick up and play.
The system's complex enough to feel "real" to people used to D&D, but it's based entirely on a narrative-mechanic-narrative loop similar to Fate's.
 
Skyler
Skyler
btw, this is the second time today I've seen the name Naomi Bishop
the first one I'm trying to remember, it was also from a piece of fiction
 
BESW
BESW
She's Trogdor's favorite character to play.
@Skyler Equity?
 
Skyler
Skyler
no, I have no idea where it was though
 
BESW
BESW
I do use Roll For Shoes as a palette cleanser between systems, too, but it's probably not right for your current needs.
 
Skyler
Skyler
10:52 AM
I'm not sure why but for Roll for Shoes I can totally picture a game of it evolving into a murder mystery
 
kviiri
kviiri
I used to run everything in Apocalypse World or not run it at all
But DnD 5e left me longing for tactical combat, without delivering
I'm sooooo eager to finally get that 4e game of mine started
 
BESW
BESW
I'm hoping Fate of Agaptus can scratch the tactical combat itch, because 4e is just too extra.
 
kviiri
kviiri
11:19 AM
I'm a bit unsure what I want to do with skill challenges
But I want to try throwing in non-combat things to do in an encounter.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
11:42 AM
@trogdor No, I was just joking about the (literal) d7 question on mainsite: rpg.stackexchange.com/q/123545/23970
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
12:06 PM
@nitsua60 Finally got Mordies ... head down for a while to soak it in. (And I finally found the ref in DMG for adjusting class spell lists ...)
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
morning nerds
 
Axoren
Axoren
Ugh, I hate seeing new users' questions closed due to missing system tags.
You can tell that if they don't get it immediately, they just bounce.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
We could enforce a system.
kind of like how meta requires one of a few things?
we can enforce one of .... a lot of options.
 
Axoren
Axoren
There's a system. It's enforced. Their questioned get put on hold, and they leave most of the time.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
no, I mean at the code level
 
Axoren
Axoren
12:16 PM
However, the problem with requiring a system tag is that you end up with questions that don't have to do with a system and don't fall under system-agnostic
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
Like, make it a requirement to click "ask question"
if it doesn't have to do with a system, how is it not system agnostic?
and I think it's an overstatement to say "they leave most of the time", at least as a direct correlation to their question getting holded.
 
Axoren
Axoren
system-agnostic means it applies to any system. What if it doesn't apply to any system?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
Can you give me an example? I'm not sure I'm understanding.
 
Axoren
Axoren
21
Q: Is GameScience's non-cylindrical seven-sided die a balanced/fair die?

doppelgreenerYou might have come across GameScience's seven-sided die before: There's mixed discussion of whether it might be biased toward the 6 and 7 faces (the 6 being on the opposite side of the 7 you can see in the photo). It's a GameScience die, and they tend to market themselves on making properly f...

dice statistics scientific-validation
Literally doesn't involve a TTRPG system at all, isn't relevant to any as a whole.
However, it's relevant to a tool very common to every system, the dice, it has nothing to do with game systems at all.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@goodguy5 the issue with having a system enforcement is that there's a lot of questions that don't need one at all
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
12:20 PM
I feel like system agnostic still works, but maybe I don't understand the term and intent properly.

In that case, you'd just make another tag. [tag:no-system] or something.
 
Axoren
Axoren
@doppelgreener Do you know how to search for "on hold" posts?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Right, that's one of the old old uses of the system agnostic tag: "people expect a system tag but there isn't a system here so I'll use this one." (That's no longer a relevant expectation or situation.)
 
Axoren
Axoren
I know "closed" is the search term "closed:yes"
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Axoren closed:1, active within the past week.
(because anything older than a week in activity is guaranteed to be closed and not on hold)
Functionally though on hold === closed, except for the text and the review queue bump.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Here's another question that had a bounce due to not specifying a system tag:
-1
Q: Ultimate pact weapon and a ranged pact weapon

William WeberDoes ultimate pact weapon still let you turn you pact weapon into a ranged weapon, or do I need to use another eldrich invocation to do that?

spells warlock eldritch-invocations
The response message that both the recent and this question cover the vague instructions on how to meet compliance, but to a new user are these explicit enough?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
12:28 PM
we could require the tour to post?
 
Axoren
Axoren
I don't have any stats on how many 1-rep new users end up following the Tour
But I suspect if they bounce, they haven't taken the tour
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Axoren That user has never been seen since the same minute they posted the question. (they weren't even active later when it was closed.) They didn't bounce because the closure... they just never bothered to come back even after making the post.
Honestly specifying the system is extremely minimal effort. There's not much we can do: we need that info. If they never even check back to provide it they care so little I dont care much either.
If they have no idea how to even respond, they're not going to do well here.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
If we can get another reopen vote ... rpg.stackexchange.com/q/123579/22566 the tag has been added.
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@KorvinStarmast Yeah but I have no idea what the answer is... xD
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Oh whoops there.
Hooray! It's open.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
12:36 PM
also, sneaky warlock is a decent one-off name
 
SPavel
SPavel
I wonder when the eagle will stop sitting on the eaglet
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@KorvinStarmast I was kind-of "meh" on it. But it's similar enough to Volo and XGtE that if one liked those, I suspect they'll like MToF. (I, personally, am very interested in seeing the reception the next two books get: I feel like both "break the mold" of recent adventure-books and supplement-books.)
@Axoren Ugh... I have (what I think is) a good answer to that one but really shouldn't blow an hour writing it up. $ACTUAL_WORK needs getting done =(
 
Axoren
Axoren
@nitsua60 To which?
@nitsua60 To the specter one?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Axoren Whoopsie--reply-linked the wrong question. I'm thinking about the d7.
 
Axoren
Axoren
@nitsua60 I already posted it in the Math.SE chat
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
12:45 PM
@Axoren Good--because mine is a physics-take =)
 
Axoren
Axoren
I want to see if one of them wants to go ham with their Galois Co-theoretic Topolonalytical Ricci Flow techniques
"There exists only one dimension in which this dice is fair and our space does not have dimension $\sqrt 2 + i$"
Forgot that chat doesn't have the LaTeX plugin by default.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
How's Tuesday afternoon in Scandanavia shaping up?
 
kviiri
kviiri
We have a CS student org sauna later today, trying to get some thesis work done :) I need to implement a bit of a tailored backtrack search for a problem
I'm growing rather tired of all the sunshine. Hasn't rained in weeks
 
SPavel
SPavel
@nitsua60 Tuesday afternoon in Scandinavia sounds like an absurdist book title from the 60s, maybe Vonnegut
 
NautArch
NautArch
1:04 PM
howdy howdy all
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@NautArch Ahoy!
 
kviiri
kviiri
@NautArch Good day!
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@NautArch (Wait a minute: "howdy." Are you an Aggie? Have we been over this before?)
 
kviiri
kviiri
@nitsua60 I'm European and what's an aggie
 
Axoren
Axoren
@kviiri From an agricultural area, I think.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
1:07 PM
@kviiri A student at/alumnus of Texas A&M University.
 
kviiri
kviiri
Ah, ok
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@kviiri ("Texas Agricultural&Mining University," or "Aggie" for short. Originally a perjorative for "those Aggies" it's been (re)claimed with pride by that institution.)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 yes and yes :) Howdy Dammit!
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@NautArch Howdy!
(I'm not sure I ever got used to people answering the phone that way.)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 fought the force of nature last night. beat it.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
1:11 PM
@nitsua60 So far, it reminds me a lot of SCAG.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@NautArch In-game, or were you, like, trimming trees during a thunderstorm?
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 the creature you classify as a force of nature ;)
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@KorvinStarmast Yeah, lore/setting heavy in the early bits. Certainly moreso than Volo/XGtE. (Where Volo was a little narrower-scope: "let's look at Kobolds!")
 
kviiri
kviiri
@nitsua60 "Howdy" always evokes Undertale for me
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@NautArch A toddler?
Oh, the Tarrasque! (Which is really just an anthropomorphization of a toddler, as far as I'm concerned.)
 
SPavel
SPavel
1:13 PM
@nitsua60 So it's like "you fight like a dairy farmer"?
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 I wish. Yes, the tarrasque.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Almost anything you try to do to subdue it makes your life harder. Check. Regurgitates at inopportune times. Check. Thinks it's the only thing in the world. Check. Commoners are unwilling to face it down. Check.
Yup, the Tarrasque's a toddler.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 pretty sure the DM either pulled punches or just didn't know how to play it right.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 Leaves only ruin in its wake. Will eat anything, especially if you don't want it eaten. Will just suddenly appear and start terrorising things. Merely surviving it will drain all of your resources.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
> Merely surviving it will drain all of your resources.
This!!
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
1:17 PM
The best way to handle it is simply to exhaust it completely.
 
Axoren
Axoren
@nitsua60 The Tarrasque pretty much lands 5 automatic hits on its turn against any one person.
Those attacks have a chance to crit.
I think I totaled it up at one point, a Wizard with 16 CON is expected to die.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Axoren Yeah, I took it on after I fell of my pegasus. That one round nearly took me out.
Our sorcerer died and got swallowed at the end.
 
Axoren
Axoren
... Does the tarrasque deal double damage to Warforged as a siege monster?
Specifically 5e
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
(at the risk of Objectifying Warforged characters.)
 
Axoren
Axoren
Warforged women are pretty hot, but that's just because of bad cooling.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
1:22 PM
(no, wait, "exhaust it completely" is probably less accurate for toddlers, more accurate for dogs.)
 
Axoren
Axoren
My magic jar answer is getting way to much score...
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
→ 49 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV I went ahead and moved the whole conversation about the unhappy meta post to the NAB. Feel free to read if interested, but it felt like it was cluttering General Chat a little bit.
 
Axoren
Axoren
I might get the 100 score badge from literally just saying "Yup, that's a thing."
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Axoren link?
 
Axoren
Axoren
68
A: How can a level 20 warlock cast Magic Jar?

AxorenThis Warlock knows how to cast Magic Jar That's it. That's all it takes. This guy can just do that. In 5e, NPCs don't need to follow Player Class restrictions or guidelines. Dragons don't have Sorcerer levels, but can do magic. The Master Thief doesn't have Rogue levels but gets Sneak Attack an...

 
nitsua60
nitsua60
1:26 PM
Gotta give my 1% toward your first gold badge =)
 
Axoren
Axoren
And it's not accepted. No answer is accepted, lol
@nitsua60 Thanks
 
Sdjz
Sdjz
It's a simple, direct answer. I think people tend to like those.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Axoren I feel like the majority of questions never select an answer.
@Sdjz (and correct)
 
Sdjz
Sdjz
@nitsua60 well that too obviously :)
 
Axoren
Axoren
@nitsua60 If the querent accepts one of the other answers, I'll get Populist, lol
 
SPavel
SPavel
1:28 PM
@nitsua60 salutes General Chat!
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@nitsua60 FWIW, I think that one of my questions about elves/lore is now answered for 5e in MToF.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@KorvinStarmast self-answer, accept quickly while the score's still low, and net guildsbounty a populist badge?
 
kviiri
kviiri
Anyone mind brainstorming a bit of a campaign bit with me? Just for fun, because I won't be running this in months at least
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@kviiri o/
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@nitsua60 Yeah, but I don't have the book with me. I'll do it tonight.
@kviiri sure, what do you have on your mind?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
1:33 PM
@kviiri (I'm clearly only working at about 30% throughput this morning.)
 
kviiri
kviiri
The BBEG of the campaign is a conquering spirit from another world, in essence an alien that bows to no mortal, devil or primordial. The players have the option to make a deal with another evil NPC, a lich who is no saint themselves but hates the BBEG as much as the players.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri Sort of like Xykon versus the three fiends in OoTS?
 
kviiri
kviiri
Basically the lich's thing is collecting things of magic, no matter the means. I'm not going to throw in a huge moral dilemma at my players: the lich will expect, in return for their alliance, only that the players bring it a magic item that's otherwise unaccessible to it
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
Is alignment of the BBEG of any importance?
 
Sdjz
Sdjz
@kviiri In what way is it accessible to the players but not the lich?
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:36 PM
Nah, they're basically Evil for all intents and purposes. A bit like Q from Star Trek but much meaner
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@HellSaint Can you apply some liposuction to this question? It's overly inflated with prose. (I have a similar habit; I often use more words than necessary)
@HellSaint I think it's a good question for people who find themselves in a similar situation to you, in terms of DM style and table attitudes.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Sdjz That's a good question! Y'see, liches are traditionally described as rather... err, cloistered, despite them having rather little reason to be so. I mean, they don't have to fear death, so they can essentially wear any mortal foe down... unless said foe knows the location of their phylactery
 
Helwar
Helwar
@KorvinStarmast liposuctioning questions... weird picture being formed in my head... thanks
 
kviiri
kviiri
So I was thinking, the lich might want the players, perhaps, to covertly snatch something from another bad guy (provisionally a Beholder) who knows where the phylactery is, without revealing they work for the Lich.
Does that make sense?
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri OK, premise is that BBEG is Evil (Neutral Evil?) and is doing "X" that encroaches on a lich's plans/desires.
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:39 PM
Is it too contrived?
@KorvinStarmast Yea, essentially.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 I'm curious, is this plan still ongoing? :D
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri not at all. IT depends on the presentation too
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@doppelgreener oh, yes. Nine months in! [chuckles evilly]
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
yessssssssssss
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@doppelgreener that is an element of my DMing this fall in my brother's/shared world.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
1:40 PM
I have a printout of that page of transcript tucked in the back endsheet of the hardcover adventure. Mwa-ha-ha-ha!!!!
 
kviiri
kviiri
The big question is, what should this object of magic be? Basically, I want it to be powerful enough that the Lich wants it, but it should also be of the nature that the players won't feel they're MASSIVELY disservicing the world for giving it to the Lich. And finally, it should be of the nature that the players might likewise decide to keep and use it, and screw the Lich :-)
We're playing 4e, where magical items are usually less mysterious than in 5e, but for this one I think it'd be the best as a homebrewed artifact of some sort
 
NautArch
NautArch
@doppelgreener I am just starting a new campaign - thank you for the reminder. THis crew will definitely appreciate something like that :)
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri can be sentimental to the lich? Not necessarily powerful, or even magic at all if you want.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar It could, but should my players feel like it, I think it'd also be cool if they could wield that very thing against the lich
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@kviiri A broken-off bit of claw from the Tarrasque. (It's massive, btw.) From which can be forged a weapon that would bypass all the Tarrasque's normal defenses.
 
Sdjz
Sdjz
1:43 PM
@kviiri The lich is lonely and wants a smart sentient artifact to keep it company
 
kviiri
kviiri
Waaait... what if the thing is actually the Lich's Phylactery?
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
So... his father's screwdriver?
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Yuuki Sonic?
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri Yeah, an artifact is where I was going with this, but since I am not 4e savvy, here's a limitation for any advice I might give. I have no idea how "levels of power" work in that edition.
 
kviiri
kviiri
Or SUPERsonic?
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
1:44 PM
@kviiri I feel like that would fall into "massively disservicing the world for giving it to the lich".
@kviiri I dunno, sonic screwdrivers can be incredibly handy.
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri Make it some kind of "undead controller" that he fears can affect liches too. So he wants it for safekeeping, not for actually using it. It could also be in a sanctified place with overflowing positive energy that hurts him, that's why he can't get there
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@NautArch @KorvinStarmast eeeexcellent [tents fingers]
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
His father's screwdriver would be a sentimental object and the players could always use it to screw the lich if they really wanted to.
Although I can't imagine they'd get very far with it.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@KorvinStarmast Generally, they're rather rigid. Magic items are described by level, so that a level X character is generally level-appropriate with level X items and a few above. But artifacts are often more narrative than mechanical in nature
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri or his philactery, that also works. just make sure he never tells them that bit of info
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
1:46 PM
@kviiri The artifact is a bard's instrument that holds the soul/spirit of the woman the lich loved when he was alive. The instrument has a variety of positive powers, some of which are bad for undead. But it is the soul/spirit of his long lost love that the lich hungers for.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@KorvinStarmast Heyyy, this is good stuff
 
Axoren
Axoren
Lich's Phylactery is the Crown of the King
King has disappeared and the Court is in search of the heir
The Crown has a resonance with those of the monarch's lineage

Do you destroy the Crown, ending the Lich and losing the only means of determining the true heir? Or do you allow the Lich to live until the next King takes the throne?
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@Helwar I dunno, if it's a weird item that doesn't seem to have any obviously magical properties and a lich really wants it, then my first assumption as a player would be that it's a phylactery.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri You can even put some lore into the instrument where the lich had a hand in crafting it, and something went wrong ... or something like magic jar happened with her soul and the instrument to save her from some extra planar horror ... like the BBEG?
 
kviiri
kviiri
That also has the good property of serving as a plot hook for if the players don't betray the Lich
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
1:47 PM
Sure, that's metagaming, I guess, but liches and phylacteries are such common knowledge that you really can't prevent that kind of metagaming.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Yuuki Yea, I honestly don't care to intervene in that :P
I think there's more fun stuff to do than bother with what's meta and what's not
 
Helwar
Helwar
@Yuuki it could also be a magic item. Imagine your philactery is embedded in a jewel in the scabard of a vorpaline+5 fire explosive dancing scimitar
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@Kviiri It's strings are made of true sliver; a bard playing a song on that does radiant damage to undead (at a suitable power level) for as long as the song keep playing. (There is a little bit of Ebeneezer Scrooge going on here ... lost loves due to being greedy, selfish on the part of the lich)
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@Helwar Or what if it's actually your philately? Then I wouldn't put mine in the scabbard of an explosive sword.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri upon speaking her name, the spirit in the bardic instrument will be able to converse with whomever for an hour each day. (daily power)
 
Helwar
Helwar
1:49 PM
@Yuuki well, allegedly, an explosive sword doesn't damage itself when kabooming enemies :P
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
The sword would be fine but some of the embers could catch on the postage stamps.
 
Helwar
Helwar
@Yuuki but your soul is inside, nothing bad can happen xD
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri The question is, why does this BBEG have this item? I'd say the BBEG is a yugoloth or a devil whose evil includes doing battle with Orcus, or something that is all about undead ...
 
kviiri
kviiri
@KorvinStarmast The BBEG is actually a bard :P but I was thinking it was in the possession of a different, lesser villain
 
Helwar
Helwar
BBEG was a being of another universe unaligned with anything in this, wasn't it?
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:51 PM
(current sketch of the BBEG is that they're a conquering spirit of a volatile plane where music and magic are connected very intimately)
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri OK, so this item is perfect for BBEG to covet/want ... and the lich also.
@kviiri Musical instrument is in possession of a Drow bard.
Or a half drow bard ...
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@kviiri Alternate thing: the artifact is something super dangerous that everyone is better off without. The Lich wants it because they're going to destroy it and consume its magic. That magic in Lich form is a lot safer than that magic in the artifact's form. The Lich is just about the only creature (un-)alive who can do this.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri BBEG is apparently an outsider or an aberration? (Can Gibbering Mouther sing in seven part harmony?? Hell yeah! It's just that nobody understands the lyrics, sort of like a lot of Mick Jagger's songs in the late sixties/early seventies).
 
kviiri
kviiri
@KorvinStarmast Yea, they're a threat that's alien to mortals and gods alike. A bit like Cthulhu and so, from the Far Realms or whatever the term was
@doppelgreener That's a good idea too
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Axoren Making the crown into a phylactery is a very Voldemort thing to do. :)
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
1:55 PM
OH my goodness, I just came up with a fantastic foe: an NPC Gibbering Mouther bard. I crack myself up sometimes Gibbering Mouther's are aligned neutral ... :)
 
kviiri
kviiri
@doppelgreener It's a good thing 7 is a magical number
otherwise Voldemort would've made just about everything into Horcrux
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Yuuki It can also just be common knowledge in the game world. We -- in real life -- know an awful lot about our own world, and humans always have for centuries or milennia understood a ton about the world around them, and passed on tons of knowledge merely in cautionary tales.
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@doppelgreener Which is why I'm not sure making the macguffin the lich's phylactery is a good thing.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@kviiri Oh. On that note for your consideration: Nyarlathotep.
@kviiri Sounds cool. :)
 
kviiri
kviiri
@KorvinStarmast Drows are cool! I like The Beholder idea too much to toss it but maybe they could be the Beholder's court bard. Who never performs to them because the Beholder hates music :P
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
1:57 PM
@kviiri seems to want the players to consider handing the item over to the lich as a possibility and I can tell you that most groups I've played with would never hand over a phylactery.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
@kviiri Yeah, nice touch. Beholders as aberrations and BBEG's are fun;
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
Even if your party is not altruistic, having a lich's phylactery tends to give you +10 to Charisma-based checks against that particular lich.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
Oh, crap, I just noticed a drawback regarding a gibbering mouther as a bard: they have to be at least 10' away from the dance floor .... The ground in a 10-­‐foot radius around the mouther is doughlike difficult terrain. Each creature that starts its turn in that area must succeed on a DC 10 Strength saving throw or have its speed reduced to 0 until the start of its next turn
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Yuuki Yea well... I've agreed with my group that out-of-battle choices are where they should just choose the kind of story they want. I won't get their characters into more trouble over giving the phylactery to the Lich, but it can shape the future of the campaign (mainly, whether they face the Lich as a post-final boss or not!)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
There's an idea in D&D 4e's Points of Light lore that outside the infinite cosmos lies the Far Realm, which itself is host to a lot of life entirely alien to the cosmos -- and most of it is inherently hostile to the cosmos, whether through active malice or by mere existence. BESW and trogdor had the headcanon that the Points of Light was sort of like a bubble in a sea, and the Far Realm considers it an infection they're trying to remove.
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
1:59 PM
> Ruins dancing at the tavern ....
 
kviiri
kviiri
@doppelgreener Hah, this is excellent:D
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
But in that same sea could be other bubbles, other cosmoses. Said BBEG could've found his way from one of those cosmoses to this one.
 
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