TRPG General Chat

5:00 PM

@DavidCoffron Occam's razor has flaws: it doesn't actually say what the solution is that makes the least assumptions. And really, "the worms can stay in there and not affect the target and not be cured" and also "this isn't a disease" and "immunity doesn't imply anything's cured" look like assumptions.

David Coffron

@SirCinnamon Lay on Hands isn't effected by a null magic area typically

@doppelgreener It is the null assumption, "it is only a disease if something says it is"

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron this is correct because it is not a magical ability.

David Coffron

@doppelgreener Also, I didn't say immunity doesn't cure something. I said it isn't a targeted ability

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron If I may quote a cogent observation by BESW ...

NautArch

@goodguy5 take a look at mine :)

HellSaint

5:02 PM

Generally, for RPG.se, I find RAW answers to be the least we should be giving when possible. In the end, this is the "right" answer, as far as we can have a common ground. Everything else is based on our experiences, our players and DMs and our way to have fun. It might or might not work for other people.

KorvinStarmast

> We aren't here on the Stack to read the rulebooks to people. We're here to help people learn how to synthesize the mechanics, the non-mechanical text, the social context, our personal experience, the learning of the broader community, to apply all that to a particular real-life problem someone's having and find a solution for it. (BESW's observation)

HellSaint

By the way, hey.

David Coffron

@HellSaint Then every answer is "ask your GM" (in 5e at least)

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron No, now you are making that dichotomy.

@KorvinStarmast This thing is the thing we do.

HellSaint

I usually do write that on my bottom lines :P

Rubiksmoose

5:03 PM

@NautArch "There are a myriad of examples that show otherwise (creatures immune to Frightened are not affected by a Vengeance Paladin's Abjure Enemy." you should make this sentence clearer. I only know what you mean because of discussion/@DavidCoffron's answer

NautArch

@HellSaint I somewhat agree, but in general the rules are the only shared experience we have at each table.

David Coffron

@doppelgreener Ok, I will stand correct: "every good answer is ask your GM, and here's some context" since every answer would include rule 0

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron You're not really listening to us.

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron A number of people on this stack have gotten upset when I say the following. "if you aren't working with your DM, you are doing it wrong." The rules in 5e do not exist in a vacuum; they exist in a space that includes people.

I guess there's a nicer way to say that, but it's as clearly as I can express that thought.

David Coffron

@KorvinStarmast Working with your GM is a given. (Rule 0). Should not our answers move beyond that. There is a possible clear answer with RAW. Every other answer is subjective. I don't understand why I am getting hate from the only objective answer that can be reached

HellSaint

5:05 PM

By the way, when I said "the least", I don't mean as the worst thing, but as the minimum we should be answering.

Then, after we give the RAW answer, we can give our experience on why RAW might not be the best.

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron No hate from here. I hope my comment didn't give offense.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose better?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch much :)

HellSaint

But we should at least give them the RAW answer, which is the common ground for everyone.

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron You're copping flak for asserting it's the only objective answer that can be reached and assuming it's objectively correct, and condescending to anyone who might object as obviously being wrong and not getting it, and you're asserting that the only types of answers are "here's the objective RAW fact, pendantism and nonsense included" or "ask your GM".

NautArch

5:06 PM

@HellSaint Ah! Yes :) That's the experience bit that gives a good deal of insight and what makes opinion-based answers good!

David Coffron

@doppelgreener I don't think it is the only right answer, but no one has tried to argue against my answer (only that it isn't RAI, which I never said it was).

KorvinStarmast

@HellSaint No ... since we seem to have a special definition of what RAW means on this stack. See the meta and the description in the tag.

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron Sorry, you think "the only objective answer that can be reached" isn't the only right answer?

Because it looks like you're saying it's the only right answer, when you say it's the only objective answer that can be reached.

David Coffron

@doppelgreener objective was a qualifier for using what we have (devoid of context). Using context, some subjective answers can be reached (which may be better or more helpful)

KorvinStarmast

Ok, so I can't post a question, but was able to post an answer on Meta. I Declare Victory!!!!! 8^D

David Coffron

5:08 PM

I didn't mean objective in that way

HellSaint

@KorvinStarmast I don't see how the tag is different from the usual definition of RAW.

doppelgreener

Well, listen to what we're saying, and it might be less of a mystery why you're copping flak. (Part of that is: you haven't been listening to what we're saying.)

David Coffron

Subjective answers (like NautArch's) can be better than mine (which is objective only)

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron Do you know that people could also come up with other different objective answers that can disagree with yours?

David Coffron

@doppelgreener Yes, but no one has proposed one

KorvinStarmast

5:09 PM

@HellSaint We went through more than one flame war on meta over the RAW issue ... so I am not going to re open that can of worms. A rules referenced answer is something we usually like in that it usually offer support for the reasoning in an answer.

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron Sure. But you're asserting yours is the only objective answer that could possibly be reached. That's something that will cop you flak.

Not has been reached, can be reached at all.

KorvinStarmast

Be excellent to each other ...

HellSaint

What specific question/answer you're talking about, btw?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I like your answer to that Meta question. It's a good middle ground between Icyfires suggestion and the reality of the stack.

HellSaint

I've scrolled up but it seems lost in time already haha

Rubiksmoose

5:11 PM

8

Q: Would Spawn of Kyuss worms infesting a Paladin die?

At third level, Paladins gain the feature Divine Health: By 3rd level, the divine magic flowing through you makes you immune to disease. (PHB, p. 85) There's a monster in Volo's Guide To Monsters called the Spawn of Kyuss which can infect enemies with a burrowing worm. If it burrows into a...

David Coffron

.@doppelgreener my superlative was unintentional. "I don't see any other objective answers" would be better

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast WYLD STALLYNS!

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron Yes, that would be much better.

David Coffron

Apologies to anyone who may have felt I had condescended them (was not my intent)

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener fwiw, I do think @DavidCoffron may have been unintentionally coming off in a different way. I interpreted it less harshly than you for context.

doppelgreener

5:12 PM

@Rubiksmoose It seems so.

David Coffron

English is so weird, condescended and condescending are pairs. There is no subject version of the adjective/verb group

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron it is always a good reminder to be careful to phrase our language in such a way that does assume we are correct or disparage the other side

Even though it was not your intent (which I believe)

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose I'm trying (see my edits). English just doesn't have a way for that

(with those words)

doppelgreener

Sorry for the misunderstanding then @DavidCoffron.

David Coffron

@doppelgreener All good. I wasn't clear and did get a little heated unnecessarily. Now I am scrounging the DMG for disease details to give a better answer.

NautArch

5:21 PM

@Rubiksmoose I decided to move that 'myriad' clause to the other section :)

Rubiksmoose

A much more blatant example: Just the other day I edited an answer that said that "no DM worth their salt" would have ruled [the opposite of their answer], which may have sounded much better to them in their head, but is obviously fairly insulting to those DMs (such as myself) that actually had ruled that (and still believe it to be correct)

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose and salt can be bad for you :P

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch but soo sooo good

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose How much is a DM's salt worth?