TRPG General Chat

doppelgreener

13:02

@KorvinStarmast So it ... missed all the vital organs on the way through?

It's super surreal though, surely

I guess that'd be cool though. 🤔

[rummages]

NautArch

@doppelgreener less missed and more the attempt at hurting you failed.

Someone can punch, make contact, and not actually hurt you.

doppelgreener

(source. context: characters in fire emblem stay still when they get stabbed and the attack doesn't hurt them.)

SPavel

@doppelgreener relevant i.imgur.com/pASXO7h.jpg

Rubiksmoose

4

Q: What spells are available to teleport willing characters in DnD 5e?

What are the official spells (published materials only) that can be used by characters to teleport both themselves and others in Fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons? Which classes can cast them and at what level? If appropriate, what is the limit to the distance that can be teleported using them? H...

David Coffron

@goodguy5 I watched one last night. Was very entertaining: youtu.be/znzYbK3TDUo

goodguy5

13:07

holy smokes 3 hours

David Coffron

I mean it is an rpg

SPavel

roll for eagle

David Coffron

I can answer any questions if you just want info on how to play

Rubiksmoose

So about this answer, I'm thinking the spell descriptions in the answer should really be removed. I'm uncomfortable with full copy and paste lists of spells even if they are SRD (which I'm not sure of right now)

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose not all of them are.

goodguy5

13:08

@DavidCoffron I don't think I have any more questions, I think I just want to see a bit of it in motion

David Coffron

@goodguy5 I recommend skipping the first hour if you just want quality gameplay. Three of them are new to rpgs and take a little getting into it. After that it's great!

goodguy5

done and done lol

Tiggerous

@Rubiksmoose As the asker, I agree. Taking them out would also make it a better answer to my question. The current wall of text is not easily digestible.

Rubiksmoose

@Tiggerous done and done

@Tiggerous for the record, is there a reason for the spell list questions?

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose my reason for compiling a list back in the day was to know what kind of spells evil NPCs might use to move their elite warriors around (back when I GM'd). I prefer to use methods PCs can also use. Lists like that can be a valuable resource.

goodguy5

13:14

who chooses new skills?
Is it DMs call at the end of the day, or is it an agreement?

SPavel

Well they are evil so probably they launch their troops from a trebuchet

Tiggerous

@rubiksmoose Yes, twofold. Firstly, I'm looking to homebrew a teleportation spell for my own setting and wanted to make sure I balanced it against the existing teleportation spells. I know that, I could do that by asking the community to tell me if my specific spell was balanced but I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything obvious by checking it against a list of similar spells myself.

David Coffron

Your approach is probably better. Balancing homebrew questions are difficult to ask correctly here. It's possible but requires some finesse.

Rubiksmoose

@Tiggerous Cool I was just curious.

Tiggerous

@Rubiksmoose Secondly, I have previosuly referenced the question I linked to (What spells are there for resurrection) and found it a useful point of reference. I hoped that a similar list of teleportation spells might prove useful to others. Asking my homebrew question, while more specific, would only ever help me.

David Coffron

13:19

@goodguy5 I think it's typically a cooperative effort. Likely with DM having final say

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 in standard rfs, players pick themselves

goodguy5

cool

doppelgreener

RFS does not even have a GM role in the rules

goodguy5

oh, I see

one of those

David Coffron

@doppelgreener your right, but is you have an easy arbitrator like a DM it could be better to give someone authority to avoid arguments

goodguy5

13:23

and how do you decide uh.... "difficulty"?

like "I want to vault this 15 foot wall"

How do you know the opposing roll?

@doppelgreener also, unless I'm looking at a different rulesset, it mentions the DM

Rubiksmoose

23

Q: How many dice does the GM roll when challenging the players?

I'd like to run a game of Roll for Shoes, but I'm not sure how many dice I roll when the characters face various challenges. I'm under the impression that it's supposed to be the same number of dice the character uses, but that seems to make impossible tasks far too easy to perform. Is there a ...

gm-techniques roll-for-shoes difficulty

@goodguy5 But I suppose you are asking how do you know/decide that without a GM?

trogdor

@doppelgreener I do love this one

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener I love Tom's answer, since it is how I'd rule it at my table

doppelgreener

@DavidCoffron right, that can help, and it helps to have someone who plays the world and NPCs. But it's also entirely possible to do a GMless game. And it's also important to recognise that concepts of GMing aren't part of the rules, they're just superimposed onto the rules.

Rubiksmoose

@Rubiksmoose I'm ok with you removing the descriptions, I only thought it would be best for the reader to know what the spell does but I guess it's unnecessary as you say. Could you please explain your second point a bit more so I can avoid posting answers that are not fair? — Netzach Sephira 3 mins ago

Can someone help me by answering this? I'm not at all confident in my "fair use"-fu to feel qualified to explain it.

doppelgreener

13:36

@Rubiksmoose can do

goodguy5

@KorvinStarmast I think that's correct.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose I'll take a peak. @SPavel Dropped in an edit for Tom's answer to address the crit.

goodguy5

Someone was complaining that "oh, well in D&D, you can kneel down and hold your neck out and the attacker still has a chance to miss!"

To which my response is:
"no, it's no longer a combat roll at that point. "

Executioners don't "roll to attack"

SPavel

@goodguy5 That would be a Coup de Grace

goodguy5

@SPavel well, that's not a thing in 5e

SPavel

13:38

@goodguy5 You can always port it in

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 Actually, it is if the DM wants to do that outside of combat. Your point on executioners is spot on. two thumbs up

goodguy5

@SPavel why would I? it's a bad mechanic.

SPavel

CdG is not a bad mechanic

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 hmmm. Why do you think so? I don't recall having issues with it in PF personally. As a player or DM.

goodguy5

eh....

doppelgreener

13:39

The idea behind removing the descriptions is that copying the spells in full is not fair use, which is the framework under which we can quote from materials like the PHB. The PHB and its contents are not public domain or open content free to distribute: people have to pay to access that book. We can reference enough to enable us to effectively discuss and analyse the content, but we shouldn't be providing so much that it entirely obviates someone's need to purchase and own the material. — doppelgreener ♦ 59 secs ago

Our rule of thumb is that we expect people to own the reference material that's being cited from, so that they can look things up themselves if they need the full content. We can't be in the business of providing the material for them to help them circumvent the need of owning the book: that's piracy, and counter to fair use. — doppelgreener ♦ 14 secs ago

goodguy5

lemme rephrase. CdG would be a bad mechanic to integrate into 5e

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Perfect thanks :)

doppelgreener

Whether it's a good or bad mechanic is probably a red herring in the face of the fact it's just not a core part of the D&D 5e rules, which are what are being analysed there. (we're not analysing "the D&D 5e rules plus whatever else we can throw in.")

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose but also, "this person is unconscious and helpless. I'm going to attempt to stab them in the skull to kill them. maybe it will work. maybe not. who knows!?"

BESW

@doppelgreener I think folks got spoilt on the d20 SRD and started generalizing to all other RPG content.

doppelgreener

13:41

@BESW yup

probably

SPavel

@goodguy5 5% chance to disembowel yourself instead

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose btw, if you ever want to brush up on Fair Use-fu, Stanford University has an amazing plain-language summary of it that I have found to be quite friendly to being understood. They go through what it means, how we test for it, and other stuff, and it's fairly concise.

BESW

See also:

A Fair(y) Use Tale (NOT a Disney movie)

►

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Already reading it from your comment actually! No time like the present. :)

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose woo!

BESW

13:44

(A ten-minute overview of Fair Use, made using only audio-visual clips from Disney films.)

goodguy5

somebody got that monstrous races in a humanoid game question?

Rubiksmoose

@BESW That is amazing and I'll definitely watch that when I have access.

SPavel

@doppelgreener I have read more than one argument made by people who mistakenly thought that if something is accessible to the public, it is in the public domain

Also people who think that if they put "no copyright infringement intended" or mirror-flip the video, it is fine

Sir Cinnamon

I always laugh when the description of a clearly ripped tv episode or something says "I am not the owner" in the description

as though confessing that you are committing the crime is going to thwart the enforcement

Rubiksmoose

@SPavel I can get if from my library for free. That makes it basically public domain.

doppelgreener

13:47

@SPavel yeah there's a lot of mistaken assumptions about how this stuff works

(including the notion that only lawyers are allowed to talk/advise about it)

SPavel

@Rubiksmoose This was things like, taking photos from a photographer's portfolio website and using them on their own site without permission

David Coffron

What if people copyrighted spells in a setting. And you had people surveying casters to make sure they didn't violate it... hmm...

goodguy5

WAIT A MINUTE
You can get new skills on failures?!
(roll for shoes)

BESW

Of course.

SPavel

And then it turned out they were hotlinking the images and when the photographer changed URLs, they complained that it was the photographer's duty, after putting the images up, to maintain the links

BESW

13:49

Spend XP, or just be rolling against a really difficult target.

David Coffron

@goodguy5 oh that video plays that rule a little incorrectly. Skills are gained based on what happened in rfs

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Yeah in retrospect I could have done a decent job explaining it even with my previous knowledge on the subject. It just made me nervous. Didn't want to misrepresent the policy/legal part or the site's position I guess (I've done it before).

@SPavel :faceplam:

BESW

@Rubiksmoose Reasonably cautious! It is a touchy subject with a lot of misinformation going around.

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron why do think 5e spells have those expensive components? Copyright.

goodguy5

But.... if it's a 10 (two dice) to talk my way out of the situation and I roll a 6 (failing with one die)....

Do I get a new skill?

BESW

13:52

And folks can get really belligerent if their understanding of it is challenged, because they confuse "you're doing that wrong" with "you're a bad person."

Sir Cinnamon

Materials: Permission slip signed by Mordenkainen (100gp)

BESW

> If you roll all sixes on your roll, you can get new skill

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose I always wondered where my diamonds were going. So if i make a new spell some man in a dark robe will give me money every once in a while from all the material components spent?

goodguy5

Cool....

BESW

And "XP can be used to change a die into a 6 for advancement purposes but not for success purposes."

So if you roll a 1 and fail, you can spend an XP to get a skill anyway!

Rubiksmoose

13:53

@DavidCoffron I think that is the way it works for sure.

doppelgreener

@BESW I completely agree with that! (cc @Rubiksmoose)

goodguy5

So, I'm having trouble discerning what skill you would get on a failure.

doppelgreener

I've just already gotten all the explaining-it-wrong done enough times I better understand how to not explain it wrong.

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 bad at rolling 3 :3

BESW

@goodguy5 Well, what happens?

Did you get hit on the head? Maybe you have Tough skull 2.

Did you overestimate your interpersonal skills and wind up looking like a jerk? Putting the wrong foot forward 2 or Making folks angry 2 would work!

goodguy5

13:56

Alright so....
I attempt to fast talk this merchant into giving me a heavy discount on these electronics.

fail with a 6...

BESW

Maybe you offended the merchant by insulting his understanding of electronics. No discount, but you get Know-it-all 2.

goodguy5

"But I'd misunderstood which dialect he uses and accidentally insult him... a lot."
Insult Slinger 2

David Coffron

Bingo. That's how it's intended to work

BESW

Innuendon't 2.

doppelgreener

I have to head out for an hour and a bit, but I've just closed this question and provided some reasoning. Could others keep their eye on it? (with the caveat of avoiding a help pile-on :D)

Rubiksmoose

13:57

@doppelgreener will do!

@goodguy5 diss-counting 2

goodguy5

ha!

BESW

ttfn

doppelgreener

@BESW goodnight!

@Rubiksmoose thanks! o7

goodguy5

it really cheeses my weasel when people switch "dice" and "die"

SPavel

@goodguy5 I'll never try skydiving, I'm too scared that I would dice

goodguy5

14:04

@SPavel I knew you were going to do that. I even considered saying "before spavel makes a joke about dicing in an accident"

SPavel

@goodguy5 Do you also know what number I am thinking of?

goodguy5

@SPavel five

SPavel

@goodguy5 I wasn't thinking of five, but now I am

goodguy5

@SPavel exactly

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 If you go to page 3 of the basic rules (forget PHB page, I think it's 7) on "how to play the game" the CdG fits that perfectly: DM describes X, players describe what they do DM narrates the result. No dice have to be rolled, but dice can be if there is a need for it or If The Outcome Is Uncertain.

goodguy5

14:09

@KorvinStarmast I meant how CdG works in 3.x and pf

Anthony Gamache

Hi everyone, I have a small issue with a campaign I recently started with friends. My issue is that I have a human centric world, but ALL of my players want to play monstrous PCs. The problem is that my plot hook was based on a monster hunt that would lead to a tribe of chaotic good Tabaxis and the players would have to basically choose a side. How can I properly roleplay "racist" NPCs and still make them go towards monstrous PCs for help?

goodguy5

oh hey there it's you!

welcome

Anthony Gamache

Thank you

goodguy5

I feel like I saw a question around here somewhere that would help

along the lines of "there's nothing wrong with restricting races"

nitsua60

@doppelgreener It's perfectly covered by the rules. The rules say that GMs should first think about whether a thing has any chance of success or failure, then turn to more-complex mechanics to adjudicate if necessary. I'd say in this case a GM is perfectly reasonable to never even ask for an attack roll. There was an assassination question like this once, IIRC.

Anthony Gamache

14:12

I would rather not restrict races as they are new players and I told them they could make the characters they want, I just did not expect one player to find Vollo's races and tell every other players about them.

nitsua60

@AnthonyGamache You have a campaign concept mismatch and should hit the brakes immediately.

Anthony Gamache

@nitsua60 You're saying I should either restrict races or change the setting then?

Sir Cinnamon

Eagle has left the nest

Rubiksmoose

@AnthonyGamache The key is to get everyone playing the same game.

nitsua60

@AnthonyGamache Had you pitched the whole "human-centric world, we're hunting monsters" thing to the players beforehand?

David Coffron

14:14

@AnthonyGamache that's one solution, I could also see the racist NPCs using the PCs as a sort of "you know how your people act, help us hunt them down and we'll let you live."

Anthony Gamache

I had pitched the human-centric, but not the monster-hunter part

nitsua60

Talk to your players and lay it out for them.

Anthony Gamache

@DavidCoffron That's a neat idea.

KorvinStarmast

@AnthonyGamache It's OK to play the world as "pitchforks and torches" for race X. Seen it done numerous times. I'd also recommend a session zero to try and get a match between expectations. You don't have to allow any race you don't think fits.

nitsua60

"This is clashing with what I had in my head, here's why. What can we do about it."

Anthony Gamache

14:16

@nitsua60 I might just change the tabaxis for a race of typically evil monsters and just allow monstrous races.

KorvinStarmast

> part of how to make the game compelling is to give the PC's a reason to take the side of the race who is being pitchforked and torched so often. Give them a motive, or a goal.

Anthony Gamache

These are all good suggestions thank you.

nitsua60

In my opinion the important thing is not what answer you-all arrive at, but that you arrive at it together. But that's a matter of GM-style, I suppose.

@SirCinnamon Eagle has landed.

KorvinStarmast

@AnthonyGamache What Nits just said, +1. :)

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast (it's nice to hear that from a player of mine: I know it's always what I intend, but who knows what actually comes across!?)

Anthony Gamache

14:18

@nitsua60 I also agree with that style, but I have a player who has a tendency to note every detail that's a bit off.

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 I promise not to change my tune if Hal dies a horrible death.

SPavel

@AnthonyGamache "You there, dirty monster folk. Our pure human soldiers can't sully their purity by getting disgusting monster blood on them. Go murder these monsters we don't like."

KorvinStarmast

@AnthonyGamache You are allowed as DM to ask that player to tone it down if it harshes your groove. You aren't being paid to DM. ;)

> Have a chat with them about 'suspension of disbelief' as a tool for fun.

Anthony Gamache

I don't mind it, but it surely makes you doubt everything you say. I'm very busy and often will improv large chunks of campaigns and forget to note down stuff so it happens often.

SPavel

@AnthonyGamache Blame it on the gods

goodguy5

14:20

@SPavel that is both funny and upsetting. wanders just a little close to a master race

SPavel

The king's castle was white before, now it is golden? Gods did it.

The capital city was on the coast, now it's in the desert? Wrath of the gods moved it.

goodguy5

Starting next game (didn't have the stuff first game)
I'm going to give out notecards. "Just note down things you find interesting or that stand out. I'll collect them at the end and we'll review them every week"

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast I have a different take on PC death than any other GM I've played with--I'll be interested in post-campaign to hear what you-all think of it, if it ever comes up.

@AnthonyGamache Enlist their help, then. That's your continuity director. (And tell them they must be forgiving of "mistakes" you make, or this isn't going to work."

KorvinStarmast

@AnthonyGamache The other thing to do is not make "the world" NPC people homogenous. Some NPC's will be less about "torches and pitchforks" than others, and others may have unique trade interests with the unloved race; profit motive. Thus they are at worst neutral to the unloved monster race.

SPavel

@nitsua60 Is your take "do it early and often"?

KorvinStarmast

14:22

@SPavel I understand that you refer to PC death?

nitsua60

@SPavel I'll answer that in the ~~Back Room~~ Not A Bar, in case any of my regular players want to preserve the surprise for when/if the time comes.

KorvinStarmast

> Hal's not dead ... yet.

goodguy5

@nitsua60 Do you use like a Grim World situation? With like death throes?

Anthony Gamache

The problem is that he doesn't note down anything he just has a better memory than me haha. It's a non issue though, no one minds at the table it's all in jest and fun.

Vylix

Hi all!

goodguy5

14:24

howdy vylix

SPavel

@nitsua60 Sounds good

nitsua60

@Vylix hiya

Breezy day in Estonia.

Vylix

lol

quick question: in AL, do the players get extra XP/gold for hours played similar to DM?

nitsua60

Players get XP/treasure/DT/renown in a manner determined by the adventure. DM rewards are covered in the ALDMG (and are by hour/APL/quest)

What's your situation?

Vylix

Oh, I thought players also get bonus XP/gold per 2 hours (or 4 hours?) they played in AL sessions. Only DM gets that for DMing sessions, right?

SPavel

14:36

What use has the DM for gold and XP?

Vylix

for his PC

goodguy5

@SPavel his characters

Vylix

DM can play too, you know :)

SPavel

Ew

What DM would want to mingle with the rabble

Vylix

and as my fellow DMs often joke about: killing players also net you DMxp

nitsua60

14:38

@SPavel We bank XP and treasure that we can apply, at will, to any AL-legal character of ours. It's actually a pretty nice system. A few weeks back I wasn't able to run a session so someone stepped in to run. But then I ended up being able to come so I played. And from DM XP I was able to grab an old character of mine, bring them up to an appropriate level, and play along.

It's not so much that anyone's going to farm the system--and even if they did, it's be GMing more, which is generally what's wanted--but it's enough that we're not "locked out" of playing with everyone else. I know a lot of GMs who'll run a weekly game and use that GMXP to be able to play alongside with their players at cons.

Rubiksmoose

@Szega good point. In fact, that more or less solves the problem - if you've got 10 rounds to kill something that's not defending itself in the meantime, you'll probably manage to kill it without this spell ^^ — PixelMaster 46 mins ago

SPavel

I guess the whole idea of "you can't just make a character at the right level" is silly to me

goodguy5

@SPavel the dangers of organized play

Rubiksmoose

I think this is a good example of why we don't allow answers or partial answers in comments. Since OP has their answer now, I'm not sure they'll even bother editing and reopening the question. Yet the answer has no way of being vetted, voted on, or being corrected since it is in the comments. And since the question remains confusing, the "answer" helps nobody else.

SPavel

@goodguy5 I am more of a disorganized play man

2

goodguy5

14:42

good ^_^

nitsua60

Eagle's saying 'hi'.

David Coffron

Anyone have access to the DMG for 5e (im at work) and can tell me the rarity of Magic Armor +3? For some reason my rarity spreadsheet doesn't have the different levels of various magic items

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron legendary

nitsua60

@DavidCoffron Legendary

Rubiksmoose

oh good, I don't have to add the link to mine lol

David Coffron

14:52

Thanks guys

0xFFF1

if your character has a swim speed, does it get boosted by the Mobile feat?

particularly a swim speed granted by a racial

Rubiksmoose

@0xFFF1 Yup.

0xFFF1

across the board?

Rubiksmoose

@0xFFF1 Across the board. A bonus to your speed allies to every speed you have.

nitsua60

13

A: Does Wind Soul (Storm Sorcerer) stack with the Mobile feat?

So the question here is: Do bonuses to 'your speed' apply to flying speed? Sadly, the answer is that is that it's not clear. I'll break down the arguments for and against. For The 'Using Different Speeds' section on page 190 of the PHB says that "If you have more than one speed, such as you...

Rubiksmoose

14:57

Unless they put restrictions on it.

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose Looks like you should be submitting an answer there?

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 Look at the second answer :)

nitsua60

Wait... there're answers beyond the first!!!???

(he he he)

Rubiksmoose

XD

nitsua60

tbf, you lost me at "Jeremy says..."

=)

Rubiksmoose

15:00

@nitsua60 Yeah I'm actually modifying it now, but it actually makes complete sense with how the game handles speed and movement even though it is never stated explicitly.

But Speed is yet another case where they mucked things up by not defining terms properly/at all.

Anthony Gamache

15:13

anyone know of a good website or forum with plot hooks? I feel like I could use some inspiration for my campaigns

SPavel

@AnthonyGamache Doc Aquatic's random encounter chart

Mike Q

@AnthonyGamache The internet is also full of bad advice. It may help to ask here (in chat) where you can get direct feedback.

Anthony Gamache

@MikeQ Yes that's the main problem I have is filtering all the garbage ideas.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 that'd do it

Mike Q

@AnthonyGamache For example, if you want to find ideas for interesting traps or puzzles, good luck finding anything other than "PCs walk into a room and have to guess the password/solution, otherwise rocks fall and the party dies"

Anthony Gamache

15:26

@SPavel Lmao 34. Clinically insane duke hires party to kill invisible bugbears that turn out to be invisible hobgoblins with bad haircuts.
35. Desert-dwelling cactus dryads pine for romance with travellers, endlessly complain about how their spiny bodies prevent intimacy, get kidnapped by group of masochistic yuan-ti in ironic twist.
36. Tornados plan uprising.
37. Volcanos plot revenge.

0xFFF1

I'm going a battle master Fighter using a homebrew Bullywug PC race (reddit novelty account ItsaDnDMonsterNow), which gives me a ground move speed of 25 ft and a swim speed of 35ft. +2 CON and +1 DEX. It also gives me a standing leap of 20ft horizontal or 10ft vertical, and an at-will speak with frogs and toads that also counts as a language that Bullywug use. I also get Herbalism Kit proficiency for free if I start with Alchemy Tools proficiency, or vice-versa.
My build I've planned so far is:

Anthony Gamache

@SPavel This makes me want to run a joke campaign lol

goodguy5

(to pick nits, I don't like the 35 ft swim and the way that the leap is handled, whatever)

Mike Q

@AnthonyGamache Most campaigns eventually degrade into joke campaigns. A good GM is one who stays in charge of the joke.

doppelgreener

I dunno, I think it's also possible to leave the players in charge of the joke without implicating the GM as bad.

There's a lot of player-directed GMing styles.

Anthony Gamache

15:30

@MikeQ Ive been in a semi serious campaign for like 2 years and I have to commend my DM for not completely derailing it lol

doppelgreener

nice :)

0xFFF1

@goodguy5 it's because bullwugs are frogs. What don't you like about it?

they get a dwarf's movespeed and swim speed is situational

goodguy5

@0xFFF1 I would prioritize polearm master at 4 and skip mobile. Probably push all other feats back and do the ASIs sooner. +1 to hit and damage isn't nothing.

0xFFF1

i dont know how long the campaign will last

goodguy5

I'd do 25 feet move and swim (maybe 30 feet swim)
For the leap, I'd just remove the running start mandate for jumps (rather than it being a static number)

0xFFF1

15:33

well the 20ft or 10ft is to be able to do it without need to roll athletics or acrobatics

i can still try to jump farther, but ill need to roll athletics for it

goodguy5

So, a 20-strength barbarian can long jump 20 feet. and high jump.... 8 feet? (without rolling, iirc)

NautArch

@goodguy5 yup

0xFFF1

long jump and high jumps are different kinds of jumps

goodguy5

yes, I know

It seems odd to me that an 8 strength bullywog can outjump a 20-strength fighter/barbarian whatever.

doppelgreener

@AnthonyGamache I just realised where I recognised your name from. :) Welcome! Glad you felt OK to follow that invitation to chat.

0xFFF1

15:37

the 20 STR barb doesn't have the advantage of biology tailored for jumping

goodguy5

Maybe their froggy legs just really ARE that good.

NautArch

@goodguy5 you're surprised that a creature built for jumping jumps better? :D

doppelgreener

@NautArch they minmaxed for jumping

0xFFF1

TierZoo reference?

Anthony Gamache

@doppelgreener Yes I deleted the question since it was a matter of opinion/open to discussion.

NautArch

15:38

@doppelgreener I get that, but minmaxing within the constraints still isn't an equal to a creature that's minmaxed via evolution

doppelgreener

@AnthonyGamache No worries.

goodguy5

"built for jumping" is a flawed point. That's not their only stat. "are good at jumping along with their evolution".

and even with "built for jumping" as an accepted point, their physical aptitude should come into play.

doppelgreener

@NautArch they super minmaxed for jumping on a hereditary level. :D

goodguy5

Like I said, though personal preference "whatever"

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 are you suggesting they're good at evolutionary leaps

goodguy5

15:39

>.>

alrigh spavel

0xFFF1

Bullywugs would get a lot more jumping bang out of their 20 STR buck than a typical humanoid

goodguy5

@0xFFF1 yes, which is why I'd rather it be a modifier than a static ability

doppelgreener

there's benefit to having it described in a static manner for easier reference

if you're gonna make a Super Buff Bullywug you can also give it a Super Buff Jump

GreySage

15:55

I showed the eagle cam to my 2 year old daughter this morning. She said it looks like a turtle.

0xFFF1

@goodguy5 there's three problems I see with it, from a mechanics standpoint
1) Keep It Simple, Stupid
2) Other races do a static standing jump in 5e
3) PCs would be more inclined to pick physical / mundane classes for their bullywugs, since other classes likely wouldn't spec into STR, and a racial that did buffed STR scaling instead of a flat minimum to jump distance, would be less powerful for caster types.

nitsua60

on the Simple front, what about bullywugs just doubling jump w.r.t. any other PC? Then maybe a once/LR racial "bug out!" that lets them jump without OA, similar to the racial cantrips?

(but what to do when their jump distance is greater than their speed...?)

grenade-lobbed

0xFFF1

iirc there's a question that asks what happens if you try jumping farther than your speed here

i think the best answer is that you are just in midair during the round transition.

though that gives you the opportunity to do some shenanigans by abusing turn orders.

high jump (with the jumping spell?) after you attack such that you run out of movement on the turn barrier. Now you are out of reach when the enemy wants to use melee attacks against you

bonus if you take the mobile feat so you dont provoke AoO from them as you jump out of reach

0xFFF1

16:14

RAW, does jump distance depend on whether the creature in question can jump?
Druid transforms into a dolphin while on land.
Wizard casts Jump on them
They shake vigorously to try and jump as high as they can
3x of 0 is still 0

David Coffron

16:24

@nitsua60 can i re-ask the good Yuanti question for all of Forgotten Realms lore? I'm curious as to what kind of answers are out there and it looks like the OP for that question may not update with what he meant...

Just don't want to ask a needless duplicate if that's how it would be interpreted

goodguy5

16:44

I assume that the bullywog jump is based off of the giant toad, which has static ability scores and is a large creature.

A frog (tiny) has a long jump of 10 and a high jump of 5.

If one were to apply the same scaling for a small bullywog (I think they're small), you'd likely find something closer to 15 feet long jump and 7 foot high jump.

jump distance depends on available movement.

houserule mechanic idea......

Passive Initiative for Surprised creatures?

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 A surprised creature already misses a round, isnt this accounting for the same thing?

goodguy5

@SirCinnamon it's removing the super high and super low rolls of surprised creatures

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 What is your goal?

Is it a mechanics justification, a lore justification or a fun justification

goodguy5

It feels bad when the goblins get a 22 init (or whatever) and no one gets to attack the "surprised" oponent.

mechanical

David Coffron

I very much like the idea. It would make assassin more consistent (does need a little help to compare with AT and thief)

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