My inability to make good puns is my greatest shame.

I don't get why people insist on using pigeons in combat practice. Not all birds are halberds.

ugh, I spent way too long and too many brain cells in that "what is a weapon" chat

Me too man, just cleared it up though

I just found out the preferred weapon of the ornothology devil... Halberd (hellbird)

...

I'm cringing so hard

good

@SirCinnamon Hey, I had a 18 Int barbarian once. Due to a misreading of the Mind Over Matter feat :(

@goodguy5 Should have gone with Vrock, the bird-like demon

@Zachiel smartbarian can be fun. what'd the feat do and what did you think it did?

@goodguy5 The feat makes you use Int instead of Con for HP. At first level only.

@Zachiel ooooh

that's a weird feat lol

I've never seen a character where Int and Con were so far apart in the right direction that Toughness wasn't a better choice.

I mean... 20th level wizards.

3.x/pf

Except for that barbarian, 'cause I dumped Con.

that's funny, though

I was on a low point buy and I wanted to know Elvish...

Also, my second D&D character ever

@Zachiel no shame, my second D&D character was a halfling barbarian

Tera

Oh, man. I miss that halfling barbarian... he was fun af to play

@goodguy5 No, I wanted a human barbarian who had an elf best friend.

@Zachiel linguist feat then :P

@goodguy5 That's where that barbarian being my 2nd character ever comes into play. I didn't know a lot of the feats.

oh, but you managed to find "mind over matter" lol

The important thing: Did you have fun?

@goodguy5 A lot. Now I know a lot more things and I've broken the vein and I know how most character concepts can't work and the world is dull.

Not unrecently, I played an elf barbarian with 14 int, and like.... 14? strength?

So I'm playing a cleric just because it can have more Strength than a barbarian while also casting spells, but I think I've done the wrong thing because I'm always using polymorph spells and it's against the laws of most cities and I want to be in the cities. Stupid D&D, giving you things you can't really use when you need them! XD

I was planning to multiclass into druid eventually, but the game never got there

@goodguy5 In my current game a player has a gnome barbarian. He is 1 foot tall and weighs 10 lbs. And he uses a greataxe.

That's a fairy, not a gnome lol

(It was in a full RAW game, for... reasons I understand and accepted as a premise. "Making it work" would have opened a can of worms nobody wanted to open. I just had a very glass-cannon brb2/ftr1)

@goodguy5 that's a non-D&D gnome.

Where are the tables for random height/weight? I can't find them

Found it, in Personality and Background

"I want to play a gnome"

Me as DM:

We need new gnome options that don't have trinkets or illusions, like c'mon maen

(Svirfneblin doesn't count)

I just don't like ruling on illusion magic at the table, either the players get mad that their illusion doesn't work the way they want for what I see as a logical reason, or they work too well... Which is fine by itself, but then the player expects it to work next time when the conditions change and were back to square one

sounds like a player problem

and do you also disallow wizards?

I don't disallow gnomes or wizards, just prefer not to have to deal with it; most players are fine, but sometimes you get those ones

@DavidCoffron out of curiosity why did you delete your answer in the improvised weapons question? I thought it was good.

I should have said "discourage", but yea.

@Rubiksmoose I wasn't happy with my lack of sources. I'm AFB right now and was working from memory

@goodguy5 It's an illusionist problem.

@DavidCoffron That's like saying "We need new elf options that aren't elves".

@Rubiksmoose I'll just upvote yours since it says the same thing; it was goodguy5 that gave me the insight in the first place, he just couldn't post at the time

@GreySage Not all gnomes have to do illusions or tinkering or hiding near rocks; there are other options

@DavidCoffron I actually only saw yours after I had posted mine and was looking through things again and saw it was super similar.

@Rubiksmoose It's no problem, I'm more worried about having quality answers out there, then getting credit.

Alright, homebrew time!!!!

@DavidCoffron +1million for that. Yeah I just didn't want you to think I had cribbed your answer largely either, though it gives a good answer in the end, it also shows dubious ethical character lol

boom. there you go

@Rubiksmoose You're all good. As has been seen by the 100 times a few of us answer almost the same in under 5 minutes, the same answer can be reached by multiple people

@DavidCoffron They're called "Halflings", or just not using your racial traits (works for every other race)

Swim Speed of 10 feet is slower than a regular gnome who can go 12.5 feet

@DavidCoffron but that's not a swim speed

that's how fast they swim

Im glad my Whisper question is getting people some ideas about its potential power

I don't think there is a mechanical difference

@DavidCoffron oh. edition mashing. sorry

then bump it up to 20

In that case, quality homebrew +1, lol

I thought a swim speed allowed you to ignore harsh aquatic conditions.

@DavidCoffron @Rubiksmoose I'm becoming less convinced in my answer, but it just doesn't feel right to go the other way.

@NautArch On the Message question?

@NautArch The issue is it is not well defined. Many rules are like this

@SirCinnamon The Improvised Weapon one

Ah

@NautArch I don't agree with a couple parts of it, but on the whole I think it is good.

Gnomes: "Crazy, hyper-energetic and insatiably curious, gnomes are a wonderfully chaotic addition to any party. Gnomes don’t look like a threat and can quickly disarm suspicion with good humor. The common folk are often curious about gnomes, likely never having seen one before, but they are rarely hostile or fearful"

@NautArch I updated my question pertaining to Words of Terror but seems Slagmoth thinks I may have gone too far with it now. Let me know if you think it went to far as well and Ill roll it back to only be about Message

@Rubiksmoose which parts can I improve?

The problem is, we are all grasping at straws. It is a rules gap. That is why I made my own answer focusing on designer clarification. Because honestly that is the only way to get an answer.

@Ryan I think i'm good with my answer on that one. I love the idea of these little whispers across a crowded room working with the highly specialized Whispers 3rd level ability.

@DavidCoffron at least it's not kinder

@Ryan that looks like a new question to me (and possibly one that can't be answered except by discretion)

You don't often get a chance to use it, so why put so arbitrary limitations. You've invested in MEssage as one of your few and non-replaceable cantrips.

@NautArch Well I wouldn't say provably wrong, but the parts where Improv. can't be melee or ranged.

@goodguy5 Kinder? like the comparative adjective

@Rubiksmoose Yeah. I'm not sold on that, either :) It just seemed like the difference bewteen a type of a attack and a type of weapon. And allowing it creates some cheese that I'm not loving.

@DavidCoffron no, the little jerks from dragonlance. one sec

Oh Kender, yeah screw those things

@NautArch I use Message a lot :\ Words of Terror I've had far fewer opportunities to use as some of our party is quick to smack everything. Luckily they're (father and son) on vacation currently letting me and the rogue do more shadowy things

yes. Kender. sorry for my typo.

"Haha, I'm a kleptomaniac as a race design aspect"

Bard and Rogue are crazy combo with double Stealth expertise. You can do lots of fun stuff. (I had a stealthy campaign once with Bard/Rogue/trickery Cleric/Fighter with stealthy feats)

I kind of feel like Kender was just a troll move

Gnomes are that to me tbh

I played one gnome once and it was a mess

@DavidCoffron oh yeah I keep saying if me and him are ever given the chance to be in a town by ourselves we could take over the country in no time. All this fighting stuff just slows us down lol

That's the thing about adventuring; the people who can do it, do it because they want to; the rest join a faction like Zhentarim and run the world (or part of it)

this is ez

@DavidCoffron Why? (as someone is preparing to play a gnome...)

@NautArch If you roleplay based on the description (like I always do unless my specific character has a reason not to) you are "Crazy, hyper-energetic and insatiably curious." That led to a lot of unnecessary fights and trap-springing, etc.

@goodguy5 But the hard part is fitting the homebrew subraces into the race theme

@DavidCoffron I think you can be that without doing the latter. Sort of like Lawful Good isn't Lawful Stupid.

@DavidCoffron few people would call svirfneblin Crazy, hyper-energetic and insatiably curious.

Svirfneblin have specifc backstory as to why they aren't though

@NautArch Insatiably curious means I must know what's in that box. I checked for traps of course, but not quite hard enough ;) [I knew there was a trap, but had to know anyway]

You wanting to know what's in it is very different than just running over and opening it

Or my character would spen hours building a contraption to defeat the dragon (rock gnome things, with homebrew crafting rules), instead of just hunting down the magic Dragonbane weapon

alone in a room with a box? yeah, you're gonna open it. In a room with your companions, they're gonna stop you.

@NautArch or just stand waaaaaaay back

@NautArch They agreed to let me open it as long as I gave them time to leave

@Rubiksmoose exactly

I was like "but can I open it anyway?"

I always try and play characters, but not in a way that is always detrimental to the party. I've thought that bordered on My Guy too much.

It was a less serious play group in a less serious campaign (we had a flying pink pony alchemically engineered during downtime); if my survival/hit point total mattered more I would have played the character a little differently

Ah.. My girlfriend brought my books home. Come to me, my babies. So.... Gnomes....

"Though gnomes love jokes of all kinds... they're just as dedicated to ... more serious tasks"

@DavidCoffron So they tend to be good at divination?

So you could be more normal than I was; maybe I'm just biased from my one gnome experience

oooh here's a question - I'm outside of the sphere of silence. I message someone inside of it. They can still hear me and reply, correct?

Yes, the spell specifically says they hear it even though no sound can reach them

@Ryan I'd say yes. Message is a telepathic communication and silence doesn't suppress magical effects.

@Ryan Magical Silence, 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood blocks the spell

@Yuuki message is not telepathic, they still hear it

@DavidCoffron It isn't?

@Yuuki nope, if it was it would say so

@goodguy5 oh thats right "Magical silence" blocks it

;)

definitely doesn't work

... also, Message is a transmutation spell?

:shrug:

It transmutes the air molecules in their ear to make the sound be created... maybe...

@DavidCoffron I suspect 90% of groups play this incorrectly

@Rubiksmoose play what incorrectly?

93.892% specifically

message being telepathic

Anyway, so gnomes apparently make great fortune tellers and divination casters because they're just as dedicated to seer-ious tasks?

Oh; it doesn't make any real difference I don't think; Are there any difference with telepathy that makes it relevant

@Yuuki Ohhhh. Thats what you meant. I thought you were saying because they were curious

@Yuuki not good clerics though since they are all agnomstic

^ +1

@Rubiksmoose Ah, but the "a-" prefix means "without" and a gnome can't exactly be without gnomes.

gnome, you didn't

@Yuuki that is what the gnomes want you to think

A gnome can be without gnomes if he's all..... agnome (alone). Ew that was bad

Gnomes make me think of KoL and now I'm remembering my shop titled "Gnewmagn's Owgn".

@Yuuki also, you think that is the worst language/etymological thing I've broken to make a pun?

"Gnomes love names, and most have half a dozen or so" Lol what?

I'm glad they only use 3 when dealing with humans, etc.

In my campaigns, Gnomish uses the English alphabet except they use "gn" to represent the "n" sound.

@DavidCoffron Jeremy Fizzlewick Ironstache Firetrinket Laquashush Woodbottom

(the second)

@goodguy5 ha, for mine I went with Wizzlewick Rhys Deallus Farrflunger

Actually a diviniation subrace would make sense for gnomes and would be a welcome addition imo ("Gnomes who settle in human lands are commonly... sages")

@goodguy5 you forgot his childhood nickname, his surname, and his "fun time" name

@goodguy5 In Gnomish families, the favorite children have unique names while the red-headed middle child gets "the second".

Because the parents couldn't be bothered to go to the effort of coming up with a unique name.

@Yuuki "a gnome's mother, father, clan elder, aunts, and uncles each give the gnome a name" That's a lot of people to not be bothered

@DavidCoffron Basically, if you're a "the second", you're the black sheep of the family and nobody likes you.

Ugh, gnomish family gatherings must be hellish

@goodguy5 The poor kids live in ig-gnome-iny.

leave

:)

@Yuuki don't get it

ignominy?

ignominy means disgrace

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I don't think I've ever heard/seen that

It's in the scarlet letter. Only reason I knew. #11th grade english

Ah, that movie from the early 2000s about he highschool girls?

Yeah that one.... (what?)

Can a player cast Invisibility from Greater Invisibility without ever becoming visible? (5e)

google pls

@Ryan no, Crawford ruled on that, give me a second

@Ryan depends. if they casted GI, no. If they didn't, yes.

@DavidCoffron Easy A

@Ryan Nope, conc. breaks when you start casting, then you go invis when you finish

sageadvice.eu/2017/06/30/…

@Ryan But the casting is 1 action, so they'd remain invisible. Basically switching from I to GI.

@NautArch nope

as soon as you start casting, concentration is broken

It takes the full action for the spell effect to take, meaning that full action you are visible during

huh? y'all seem backwards. "From Greater Invisbility to Invisibility" is what I said

Greater Invisibility doesn't require concentration

no I didnt

@Ryan yes it does?

Oh wait, we flipped it

"Can a player cast Invisibility from Greater Invisibility" from the state of Greater Invisibility can I can cast Invisibility

But no GI does require Concentration

@Rubiksmoose no it doesnt thats the whole point of greater. Its shorter duration but you can still fight and cast spells and such

Still takes Concentration, but doesn't break when attacking like regular Invisiblity

@Ryan Greater takes concentration.

Also, you don't need to use your action every turn to Concentrate; you just do (just in case you mixed that up)

@DavidCoffron I wasn't flipping it lol

@Rubiksmoose But as soon as you finish casting (same turn), you're back to invisible.

@Rubiksmoose I was, nvm

ah okay on Roll20's wording it doesn't include concentration

Both require concentration

So I guess if they try to counter, they could

during that period

@Ryan dat's a bug. report it

@Ryan when it says "Yes" that means it requires concentration on roll20

@NautArch wait what? Once concentration is broken you lose the spell.

in any case since Greater Invisibility allows you to cast spells without breaking it. Can you cast Invisibility without ever becoming visible?

No, because your concentration is broken before Invisibility finishes casting

@Ryan Roll20 changed their formatting, now it is much more confusing and missing info

@Ryan no because Invis. is also concentration

"You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration. You can’t concentrate on two spells at once."

ah and that happens at the start of casting not the end?

@Ryan Yup

if you cast means "when you start casting" in this case per the Sage Advice I linked

@Rubiksmoose right, but within your own turn your invisible again. There is the opportunity to be counterspelled before you are, though.

:43827693 because you cast Invisibility

from Greater Invisibility

From the new Invisibility you could be countered

@DavidCoffron right

@NautArch right I assumed casting it on someone else lol

for that fraction, you're visible

reaction "which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell"

Even better, from XGE "As soon as you start casting a spell or using a special ability that requires concentration, your concentration on another effect ends instantly."

Is that in the 10 things to remember section?

so you'd end up appearing for 6 seconds (1 action) essentially

yup

I need to commit that to memory verbatum, it's so quotable

thats unfortunate trying to make some crazy Word of Terror combo

@Ryan Not quite. You appear for some amount of time, but an action is not a measure of time, so ask your DM how long

@DavidCoffron er, an action is 6 seconds

isn't it?

@NautArch nope. A round is 6 seconds

@NautArch a round is six seconds, an action has no time associated with it

turns have variable lengths, actions are never defined

well golllyyy

All actions, reactions, and movement in a round happen within 6 seconds. The narrative is some version of these events as defined by the outcomes that result

@DavidCoffron "Side effects may vary, ask your DM if visibility persists longer than 6 seconds."

@DavidCoffron It get wacky when you start thinking about it, so I suggest not doing that.

I'd probably just hand waive the transition.

When I do encounter summaries (I used to record sessions and do write-ups to have a story to read back on) I retold the story in round increments as long as the outcome remained the same.

Cast Clairvoyance so I know when the timing is just right and the mark is alone. Then from well outside the castle case Greater Invisibility then cast Dimension Door then cast Invisibility and then start talking to the mark while invisible to do Words of Terror

remember the good ol' days when turns were a minute?

but it won't work if I can't do the Invisibility from the state of Greater Invisibility

@goodguy5 Oh dear. Don't talk about classic D&D; I've played in once (before my time) and oh dear

unless I hide in the room for a sec

@Ryan what are you trying to do?

have fun taking over cities and keeping the DM on her toes

:D

@DavidCoffron I'd just cast See Invisibility :)

@DavidCoffron and when your spells had to be declared at the top of initative, but they wouldn't take place until your turn... and you had to concentrate

@NautArch I would probably be a bard in that world and not waste my time learning that spell

I would just always throw away my first turn to "hold" my initiative until the top.

The DM got tired of that real quick

@goodguy5 the holding turn thing was silly in all ways. Ready action is so perfect for this.

except for when its not perfect in wording, but the concept is great

@Ryan Gr. Invis, Dimension Door, walk behind something, cast Invis. continue

[something] can be the target.

why do you need a second invis?

@goodguy5 more time

ah

@goodguy5 Gr. Invis only lasts a minute, and he needs longer than that for the Words

GI is only for 1 minute, I is for 1 hour

O I C

Hi Folks!

welp, time to go

@DavidCoffron I doubt that. I've got pretty stellar deception abilities with +10. If I make it seem like a God is talking to you I doubt you'd run around in a panic.

have a good night

@goodguy5 Oi! ;-P

oh no! Wasn't because of you!

My work day is just done lol

@goodguy5 I assumed so. :-)

@Ryan I mean.... even if I KNEW God was talking to me, I might panic

@goodguy5 its a possibility and a risk I'd be willing to take. Half the fun is seeing how it will play out

@goodguy5 Meh, Gods and other divine beings are so ubiquitous in DnD I wouldn't be surprised

@GreySage On a related note, what things about divine beings and their possible connections to planes are dictated by rules?

(Assume I know nothing.)

the real trick will be also having a way to get out of there afterwords. Nevermind that I currently won't have spell slots left for another Dimension Door I'd also be stuck in the lower level Invisibility hoping to sneak by whenever a door opens

probably easier to just kill a guard and take its shadow. bloodier but a lot less spell heavy

Why use invisibility spells when you can instead have a high Stealth and hide behind potted plants?

@Ryan Normal invis only drops on attacks and spells, so you could open doors

@GreySage sure but that definitely would cause some commotion if a door just randomly opens on its own

@Ryan As long as that commotion happens behind you, no worries

@Ryan nah happens to me all the time

nbd

"Did I hear something? Huh, must have been the wind."

Yeah even weirder considering that I am a guard at a secret government facility.

@DavidCoffron I thought ignominy meant deez gritz

@Rubiksmoose OH no, he's on to me!

@Anaphory As far as I read, Gods and their immediate servants reside on the various Outer Planes

Are there any spells or anything that might tell me more about how they interact?

@Anaphory Divination?

"Hey gods, how do you folks interact with the material plane?"

@Anaphory Are you looking for in-game options or just fluff in general?

I'm looking for rules things that inform constraints on Gods-and-Planes-fluff.

Spell descriptions, Warlock patron properties, class features, that stuff.

@Anaphory Where do you get the idea that gods have constraints? In 5e they seem to be very much beyond that, which isn't the same as in some other editions.

I think the "constraints" would just be story constraints created by the DM to facilitate whatever story they want to run

Class feature: cleric. Divine Intervention.

You could check out "Blessings" in the DMG though

I have absolutely no idea. But if there are constraints, I want to know them, for worldbuilding purposes, so I can decide whether something needs house ruling or consideration.

@Anaphory What sort of constraints are you expecting? Max HP, spells/day, etc?

Only works "on call" at level 20 and by then the game is mostly over. > in re gods, no, there are not constraints unless you as DM put them in.

@KorvinStarmast At the very least we know Tiamat has constraints. Hell, she's killable

Tiamat herself or an avatar? (We seem to have had this discussion before?)

Herself; last time I went back and read the book

@DavidCoffron Now you're making me read DnD modules at work...

Which book? MM or one of the adventure books like Rise of Tiamat?

But technically speaking, the DM can make their own lore at their table

Rise of Tiamat

OK, I'll have to revisit that, as it seems to make her an exception ... fun with lore ...

I'm not entirely sure what I am looking for, but I think one example is “Gods have well-defined Domains, the Cleric class has a list what those can be.”

I don't know; I really want to fight some of the lesser Gods in future modules. Hopefully they do similar things in the future

@Anaphory I think even that is more a guideline than rule. DMs can adjust available domains.

But actually, I wonder whether any of the things related to gating/teleporting/planeswalking/summoning – so, mostly spells, I guess – say anything about Outer Planes or Gods directly

Like imagine being in a series of misdirections from Cyric and you finally get passed all of his tricks to fight him. Would be so satisfying

@Anaphory In the description of the planes it says the planes are only partially perceivable by mortals, that the perceivable portion can be shaped by the Gods mostly at will, and that most of the plane exists in ways that mortals can't comprehend.

@Anaphory Things like the Orbs of Dragonkind can't affect dragon deities so I imagine that if deities are ever released they will have similar clauses

@Rubiksmoose I'm not sure this was a dupe

@NautArch Care to explain why? I am 110% sure about it. Did you see my comment under the Q?

@Rubiksmoose Mainly becauase it's an area effect spell question vs a spell with a size limitation

I can also be 110% wrong (and have been known to be so from time to time)

and that you CAN create something smaller than 5x5x5

and that question/answer for an area effect is the opposite

you know what? Nevermind.

it's a dupe.

@NautArch ok lol. I took a look and saw where you were going, but I think I'm still convinced as well.

Jeese I wish I could move some of the capped rep from yesterday over to today lol. I t looks like I got 70 upvotes yesterday after hitting the limit. Keeping the eldritch gods satisfied.

@Rubiksmoose How many answers did you write?

@GreySage only three answers yesterday apparently

though a lot of rep came from the pirate question which I answered the day before.

@GreySage I see D&D never really learned that you don't give stats to gods

Otherwise, the PCs figure out how to kill them and ruin everything

@SPavel Well, in the module where she has stats she is meant to be killable

@GreySage That opens up another problem, where Tiamat is now canonically that level

I liked the "aspect of X" stuff

@GreySage Does the module say that the stats represent her exactly?

And not "weakened by travel through the portal" or whatever?

You are fighting an aspect of Tiamat, which is explicitly killable but doing so won't let you usurp her godhood and doesn't commit the setting to having a weaksauce Tiamat

@Yuuki She has stats, and so those stats represent her as she is (whatever that may mean to you). There are also ways to weaken her to make her realistically killable.

@GreySage Ugh, stats for deities always needs to be given with caveats.

She starts at CR30, if you weaken her she goes to CR18

And if she dies she disintegrates and reforms in the Nine Hells (so no, she isn't dead forever)

Because if you give actual Tiamat stats, people can and will extrapolate those stats to other deities and now you've effectively statted all of the deities just by statting one.

> The X-Card is an optional tool (created by John Stavropoulos) that allows anyone in your game (including you) to edit out any content anyone is uncomfortable with as you play. Since most RPGs are improvisational and we won't know what will happen till it happens, it's possible the game will go in a direction people don't want. An X-Card is a simple tool to fix problems as they arise.

@Yuuki It has the implied caveat: *NPCs have whatever stats the DM wants to make the campaign work, duh

I don't mind statted gods. We read stories of mortals becoming gods and usurping deities. Why can't we do that in our campaigns?

@GreySage That's the lazy way out though, "obviously we didn't mean these consequences" instead of actually thinking about them

Hmm... I wonder if introducing a mechanic where ability damage does not stack would allow more spells and abilities to have ability damage.

A Kentrosaurus assists the bagel seller, from Dinotopia: Journey to Chandara.

@Yuuki Probably not that much more, otherwise people will go "I would use my Sword of Strength Drain on the ogre, but you already hit it with the Muscle Depletion Arrow"

Consider that D&D 3.5 had non-stacking ability damage, it was called a penalty, and wasn't THAT popular

@SPavel Except that all of DnD and every campaign isn't set in the same consistent world. The whole point is that the DM makes whatever they want to. Your idea of "consequences" fundamentally makes no sense. I can kill Tiamat, and then have a level 1 character die to goblins

@SPavel But if your Sword of Strength Drain has a higher penalty, then it would take precedence over the Muscle Depletion Arrow.

@Yuuki Then I would never use the arrow