I like the extend a readied spell as an action

@SirCinnamon Just as long as you're aware it protects you from counterspell, etc.

@NautArch Sorry, protects how?

@SirCinnamon like this

From a cheese perspective, it would work like this "Before going into the room, I ready my action to cast fireball at an enemy in my range" They can then walk around, wait for the enemy to pop in, and fireball them without fear of a counterspell.

I am only removing the experience part and that is only to restraint the progress of players a bit

@NautArch well in this case it would not. Just allowing the readied action to be extended with an action would not allow that to occur (or if it did it would be fair).

@NautArch In theory you can already do that, no? Ready fireball and run in on the same turn?

@SirCinnamon You could do that for one turn. If no enemy showed up, you've lost your fireball. In the other example, you can wait around for the enemy to turn up and then release your spell without fear of a counter.

@SirCinnamon you can. the only difference is that the trigger mechanism essentially balances out the advantages (having immunity to counterspell, etc.)

@Rubiksmoose That's true, but you lose the ability to choose your target freely, which is a small penalty... I don't know maybe it's a little strong

Maybe I could impose concentration rules and maybe some kind of timed maximum you can hold it?

@SirCinnamon concentration rules already apply to readied spells

and you can counterspell the first casting of the spell, just not the releasing part fwiw.

@Rubiksmoose Right, I wasn't 100% sure on that but it seems really logical

@NautArch That's not cheese, that is good tactical planning

And honestly, PCs should really probably not be doing this because it is a really poor use of action economy. Which is another reason why it is not at all overpowered.

@NautArch sorry for all the italics on that shapechange comment =)

@GreySage heh, yes. but only works by changing the rules...which is cheeesy.

@Rubiksmoose As a dungeon crawl strategy it might be valid, if you have a scout looking for traps and spotting enemies - then again in that case a readied action is kind of moot

@nitsua60 BUT WHY?!?!?!?!

@GreySage agreed. What I was arguing against (and what @NautArch is going off of) was allowing readied actions to be allowed to be taken on ones own turn outside of a trigger with no downsides. But that seems to not be under consideration anymore.

@NautArch nope it works now technically actually.

@NautArch I meant doing it by RAW, ie. setting the trigger appropriately.

@GreySage Yesyes. It's good tactics for the RAW 1 round hold. And as the question Rubiksmoose links above - it's a great tactic for a held action to be released on your turn.

@Rubiksmoose Only if it's 1 round ;) but yeah, it'll work.

Question, if you have unobstructed line of sight to the enemy, don't they also have unobstructed line of sight to you?

@Yuuki Usually.

@Yuuki generally, yes, but not always (with tricks)

illusions, etc.

Eg you can look though a familiar's eyes or scry.

Or have an illusory wall/dirt mound/ in front of you.

@Rubiksmoose Or you can see in the dark and they can't (or vice versa)

So yes, @Yuuki Other than all of the above examples, it's true :P

@GreySage good one as well, and much more common than mine.

@Rubiksmoose I really do wish not everything had Darkvision

@GreySage it does kind of negate the specialness of it for sure. A darkvision tax.

poor humans

whelp I started a bounty. I was tired of the poor and poorly voted answers on there.

ahahahaha DC is rebooting Justice League (comics, not movies) again

@Yuuki ...how many times before?

Okay, the most recent was Rebirth. Before that was New 52. And then before that was Infinite Crisis and before that was Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Multiverse continuity is a bit of a sticky issue in the Golden and Silver Ages and so five reboots not counting this upcoming one.

Incidentally, Rebirth happened last year.

Guess they can't find a groove that works for readers

just watched the movie last night. underwhelmed.

Infinite Crisis and Crisis on Infinite Earths were really more of attempts to wrestle with tangled continuities since everyone was getting into multiverse continuity.

@NautArch What do you call it when youre expecting to be underwhelmed and then you are? is that just being whelmed?

New 52 and Rebirth were more like attempts to find new readers.

@SirCinnamon That's still underwhelmed with a side of "I thought the bar couldn't get lower".

Okay, good news.

I'm confusing "relaunch" with "reboot".

So they're not rebooting Justice League.

@SirCinnamon Was that a Young Justice reference? If so, high five!

@SirCinnamon I find daily events quite whelming on average.

@GreySage I'm often quite whelmed at work

I feel like a question just had the core question edited out of it...

@SirCinnamon If you're talking about the two dagger fighting question, it's two questions that have been pared down to one.

Right, I think it was a primary and a secondary, dependent question that was pared down to only the secondary question

The first question was how hit dice have an effect on attacks, to which the answer is "they don't". The second question was essentially "how do I calculate my attack rolls?".

I would order those opposite

According to this revision, that's how the questions were ordered by the asker.

Well... I guess he calls it his "second question"

Oh well

wew, thanks 5e for getting people confused because you wanted to save ink by removing "points" from "hit points dice".

@Yuuki Health dice, Hit Points Dice, any other name would be a lot better

And now the asker thinks that hit dice having nothing to do with attack rolls means he can't dual-wield apparently?

@yuuki hit dice as a term IIRC predates 5e by a few editions. ;) I agree with @SirCinnamon about taking a moment to make it clearer.

So much for @waxeagle's commentary about expert questions.

@KorvinStarmast ?

@Rubiksmoose It's a four year old meta post ...

in reference to all the newbie posts we just got?

@Rubiksmoose No, a bit in reference to how "read the book to me" questions used to be treated. We appear to be more newbie friendly than formerly.

@KorvinStarmast that is good to hear. Definitely dstill improvement to be made in some facets

I get that that questions in that fashion can encourage a lot of low-research posts but given that the question was put on hold and then re-opened i figured I may as well answer

@SirCinnamon For someone who has not ever played the game, a lot of this stuff in the book is not intuitive.

@SirCinnamon Generally low-effort posts are downvoted, but not closed. The only things closed are questions that don't belong on the stack at all.

But I think that the proficiency question may be a dupe, I just need to find out which question it is a dupe of. No worries, sometimes these game terms need explaining in different terms.

I have a very soft spot for newbies because it is really hard to learn an rpg system.

I had to do a bit of learning, and rereading, when I got back to the hobby via 5e. And I am a native English speaker. I also had 'baggage' from previous editions.

@KorvinStarmast Not to mention that a lot of the book language can require either background in similar systems or a firm grasp of English.

Just browsing the site I find there are some unique clashes to rules I hadnt thought about

@Yuuki Yeah, spot on

Combined with a layout that is not very intuitive.

@Rubiksmoose Some of the stuff they chose to put in "sidebar boxes" is so bizarre

absolutely true lol

Important rules, pulled out of the usual linear format and placed in a separate box

Makes you think its an example or an alternate rule and you skim over it

hey there @KorvinStarmast

@KorvinStarmast oh, well fair enough.

@KorvinStarmast my memory might be hazy but i think we've always been newbie friendly. but D&D 5e is the first new D&D-family product released during the site's run, so it's brought with it a lot of formerly untested ground.

@KorvinStarmast you'd be taking that meta post out of context if you applied it to anything outside of the fate issue he was specifically responding to.

@doppelgreener That first point is a much better point than the second one. 5e (and it's popularity) did indeed present the site with a different/new challenge. And I will say that since I have joined, the site is far more newbie friendly. (not due to me, but likely due to what you pointed out).

I read back to some of the early concerns/frustrations about the overabundance of 4e questions, but look at how PF and 3.5 expertise and Q/A grew also.

And Fate

etc

@KorvinStarmast yeah it's all a cycle, right now 5e has possibly the most questions being asked of any single system

@trogdor I suspect you are right, I think there's a way for me to do a search on that but I probably won't.

Yeah you can definitely check if it has the most questions ever but it wouldn't be the same thing and would still be a hassle

XD

rpg.stackexchange.com/tags

it has the most questions ever :P

Oops I forgot we could just do that

Also, I think that since WoTC forum shut down we may have been getting traffic that they'd have gotten before.

@KorvinStarmast i'm impressed you did that!

No way to tell that, though, sort of a proving a negative deal.

@KorvinStarmast that would make sense

Also 3.5 questions outnumber 4e

So #@$$$_$ it everyone who complained there were too many 4e questions

:P

@doppelgreener I had to figure out if I wanted to participate, given the "you are not an insider" reception I got when I first participated at all. Going through that was worth it, too, as it gave me a better idea o what SE was about, since I had never SE'd before.

@trogdor lots of good PF material as well.

@KorvinStarmast but I don't have a personal grudge against PF soooo

:P

@trogdor We hope that you'll be enjoying 5e, I think it's great that Naut played a paladin up to about 15. so he can give you tips if you need them. I only ever played one to 6 (since one of our guys was absent half the time) and then the campaign died.

@KorvinStarmast analytics backs that up as plausible. The forums shut down on October 2015. Our site activity slumped over that xmas period, then ramped up to elevated levels for all of 2016.

Suspiciously we continued growing at a similar pace, it was like there was just a sudden new significant bump in overall activity.

@KorvinStarmast well the whole point I had of joining this game was to have at least one 5e game under my belt

That being said, I don't think I can ever like it as much as 4e

I may yet find I still like it better than 3.5 though

I need more data for that but that is the prediction

I am certainly enjoying it so far, but part of that might be the people rather than the system

@trogdor The system took a while for me to get used to.

But i like it, however some of the things in this version use the same terms but aren't the same thing as previous versions. Also, I like whatthey did with advantage and healing surges/HP recovery from 4e into 5.

the always on cantrips are also nice

Personally I like 4e healing surges better

But I understand why the difference might be appreciated more on the 5e side for some people

I think they are a happy medium from pre 4e and post 4e.

I don't understand that last thing

I also think that the 5e death save is similar to, but less clunky than, the 4e death save

I have not seen a 5e death save so no idea

The pre 4e relied on time and magical healing. 4e gave lots of healing. 5e backs it down to a little natural recovery, and a little healing from nagic, and You Failed Two Death saves against that scorpion.

It's in the chat log in the game. :)

I forget what was different about 4e's death saves.

@KorvinStarmast oh yeah nvm

I knew 4e very well but all that knowledge has drained out of my head over the last 4-5 years.

@CTWind same

@CTWind There's that whole bleeding out until half your max HP. I'll get you a link to a waxeagle post on that, I referenced it in one of my answers

Oh right, there was actually negative HP

@KorvinStarmast I kinda liked that honestly

I've been living without it for so long I forgot that was a thing lol

And I also liked removing the negatives before healing

We used in in AD&D 1e, it was a new and novel feature that we liked since it gave you a chance to not lose the char.

And that success of a high enough caliber on a death save got you a surge use

@CTWind my answer here drew on waxy's answer for 4e.

I liked all the safeguard against wanton PC death