TRPG General Chat

Sir Cinnamon

20:07

I like the extend a readied spell as an action

NautArch

@SirCinnamon Just as long as you're aware it protects you from counterspell, etc.

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch Sorry, protects how?

NautArch

@SirCinnamon like this

From a cheese perspective, it would work like this "Before going into the room, I ready my action to cast fireball at an enemy in my range" They can then walk around, wait for the enemy to pop in, and fireball them without fear of a counterspell.

Maiko Chikyu

I am only removing the experience part and that is only to restraint the progress of players a bit

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch well in this case it would not. Just allowing the readied action to be extended with an action would not allow that to occur (or if it did it would be fair).

Sir Cinnamon

20:19

@NautArch In theory you can already do that, no? Ready fireball and run in on the same turn?

NautArch

@SirCinnamon You could do that for one turn. If no enemy showed up, you've lost your fireball. In the other example, you can wait around for the enemy to turn up and then release your spell without fear of a counter.

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon you can. the only difference is that the trigger mechanism essentially balances out the advantages (having immunity to counterspell, etc.)

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose That's true, but you lose the ability to choose your target freely, which is a small penalty... I don't know maybe it's a little strong

Maybe I could impose concentration rules and maybe some kind of timed maximum you can hold it?

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon concentration rules already apply to readied spells

and you can counterspell the first casting of the spell, just not the releasing part fwiw.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose Right, I wasn't 100% sure on that but it seems really logical

GreySage

20:23

@NautArch That's not cheese, that is good tactical planning

Rubiksmoose

And honestly, PCs should really probably not be doing this because it is a really poor use of action economy. Which is another reason why it is not at all overpowered.

nitsua60

@NautArch sorry for all the italics on that shapechange comment =)

NautArch

@GreySage heh, yes. but only works by changing the rules...which is cheeesy.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose As a dungeon crawl strategy it might be valid, if you have a scout looking for traps and spotting enemies - then again in that case a readied action is kind of moot

NautArch

@nitsua60 BUT WHY?!?!?!?!

Rubiksmoose

20:25

@GreySage agreed. What I was arguing against (and what @NautArch is going off of) was allowing readied actions to be allowed to be taken on ones own turn outside of a trigger with no downsides. But that seems to not be under consideration anymore.

@NautArch nope it works now technically actually.

GreySage

@NautArch I meant doing it by RAW, ie. setting the trigger appropriately.

Rubiksmoose

28

Q: Can I deny a counterspell by readying my spell behind full cover?

Suppose I am within counterspell range of an enemy mage (who has counterspell) and want to guarantee that my spell won't be countered. Could I do so entirely on my turn by moving behind full cover, then casting the spell with the ready action using a trigger of "when I have an unobstructed line...

NautArch

@GreySage Yesyes. It's good tactics for the RAW 1 round hold. And as the question Rubiksmoose links above - it's a great tactic for a held action to be released on your turn.

@Rubiksmoose Only if it's 1 round ;) but yeah, it'll work.

Yuuki

Question, if you have unobstructed line of sight to the enemy, don't they also have unobstructed line of sight to you?

NautArch

@Yuuki Usually.

Rubiksmoose

20:28

@Yuuki generally, yes, but not always (with tricks)

NautArch

illusions, etc.

Rubiksmoose

Eg you can look though a familiar's eyes or scry.

NautArch

Or have an illusory wall/dirt mound/ in front of you.

GreySage

@Rubiksmoose Or you can see in the dark and they can't (or vice versa)

NautArch

So yes, @Yuuki Other than all of the above examples, it's true :P

Rubiksmoose

20:30

@GreySage good one as well, and much more common than mine.

GreySage

@Rubiksmoose I really do wish not everything had Darkvision

Rubiksmoose

@GreySage it does kind of negate the specialness of it for sure. A darkvision tax.

poor humans

whelp I started a bounty. I was tired of the poor and poorly voted answers on there.

Yuuki

ahahahaha DC is rebooting Justice League (comics, not movies) again

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki ...how many times before?

Yuuki

Okay, the most recent was Rebirth. Before that was New 52. And then before that was Infinite Crisis and before that was Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Multiverse continuity is a bit of a sticky issue in the Golden and Silver Ages and so five reboots not counting this upcoming one.

Incidentally, Rebirth happened last year.

NautArch

20:42

Guess they can't find a groove that works for readers

just watched the movie last night. underwhelmed.

Yuuki

Infinite Crisis and Crisis on Infinite Earths were really more of attempts to wrestle with tangled continuities since everyone was getting into multiverse continuity.

Sir Cinnamon

@NautArch What do you call it when youre expecting to be underwhelmed and then you are? is that just being whelmed?

Yuuki

New 52 and Rebirth were more like attempts to find new readers.

@SirCinnamon That's still underwhelmed with a side of "I thought the bar couldn't get lower".

Okay, good news.

I'm confusing "relaunch" with "reboot".

So they're not rebooting Justice League.

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Was that a Young Justice reference? If so, high five!

GreySage

@SirCinnamon I find daily events quite whelming on average.

Sir Cinnamon

20:54

@GreySage I'm often quite whelmed at work

Sir Cinnamon

21:11

I feel like a question just had the core question edited out of it...

Yuuki

@SirCinnamon If you're talking about the two dagger fighting question, it's two questions that have been pared down to one.

Sir Cinnamon

Right, I think it was a primary and a secondary, dependent question that was pared down to only the secondary question

Yuuki

The first question was how hit dice have an effect on attacks, to which the answer is "they don't". The second question was essentially "how do I calculate my attack rolls?".

Sir Cinnamon

I would order those opposite

Yuuki

According to this revision, that's how the questions were ordered by the asker.

Sir Cinnamon

21:14

Well... I guess he calls it his "second question"

Oh well

Yuuki

wew, thanks 5e for getting people confused because you wanted to save ink by removing "points" from "hit points dice".

Sir Cinnamon

@Yuuki Health dice, Hit Points Dice, any other name would be a lot better

Yuuki

And now the asker thinks that hit dice having nothing to do with attack rolls means he can't dual-wield apparently?

KorvinStarmast

@yuuki hit dice as a term IIRC predates 5e by a few editions. ;) I agree with @SirCinnamon about taking a moment to make it clearer.

So much for @waxeagle's commentary about expert questions.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast ?

KorvinStarmast

21:29

@Rubiksmoose It's a four year old meta post ...

Rubiksmoose

in reference to all the newbie posts we just got?

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose No, a bit in reference to how "read the book to me" questions used to be treated. We appear to be more newbie friendly than formerly.

Sir Cinnamon

I certainly am willing to answer most question that have not been closed - I don't have the experience personally to judge what is close-able or not and leave that up to others usually.

I definitely admit the two dagger question is fairly easily answered with "read the book" as is the proficiencies one

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast that is good to hear. Definitely dstill improvement to be made in some facets

Sir Cinnamon

I get that that questions in that fashion can encourage a lot of low-research posts but given that the question was put on hold and then re-opened i figured I may as well answer

KorvinStarmast

21:36

@SirCinnamon For someone who has not ever played the game, a lot of this stuff in the book is not intuitive.

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Generally low-effort posts are downvoted, but not closed. The only things closed are questions that don't belong on the stack at all.

KorvinStarmast

But I think that the proficiency question may be a dupe, I just need to find out which question it is a dupe of. No worries, sometimes these game terms need explaining in different terms.

Rubiksmoose

I have a very soft spot for newbies because it is really hard to learn an rpg system.

KorvinStarmast

I had to do a bit of learning, and rereading, when I got back to the hobby via 5e. And I am a native English speaker. I also had 'baggage' from previous editions.

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast Not to mention that a lot of the book language can require either background in similar systems or a firm grasp of English.

Sir Cinnamon

21:38

Just browsing the site I find there are some unique clashes to rules I hadnt thought about

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Yeah, spot on

Rubiksmoose

Combined with a layout that is not very intuitive.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose Some of the stuff they chose to put in "sidebar boxes" is so bizarre

Rubiksmoose

absolutely true lol

Sir Cinnamon

Important rules, pulled out of the usual linear format and placed in a separate box

Makes you think its an example or an alternate rule and you skim over it

Shalvenay

22:05

hey there @KorvinStarmast

Ben

22:43

@KorvinStarmast oh, well fair enough.

doppelgreener

22:55

@KorvinStarmast my memory might be hazy but i think we've always been newbie friendly. but D&D 5e is the first new D&D-family product released during the site's run, so it's brought with it a lot of formerly untested ground.

@KorvinStarmast you'd be taking that meta post out of context if you applied it to anything outside of the fate issue he was specifically responding to.

KorvinStarmast

23:15

@doppelgreener That first point is a much better point than the second one. 5e (and it's popularity) did indeed present the site with a different/new challenge. And I will say that since I have joined, the site is far more newbie friendly. (not due to me, but likely due to what you pointed out).

I read back to some of the early concerns/frustrations about the overabundance of 4e questions, but look at how PF and 3.5 expertise and Q/A grew also.

And Fate

etc

trogdor

23:32

@KorvinStarmast yeah it's all a cycle, right now 5e has possibly the most questions being asked of any single system

KorvinStarmast

@trogdor I suspect you are right, I think there's a way for me to do a search on that but I probably won't.

trogdor

Yeah you can definitely check if it has the most questions ever but it wouldn't be the same thing and would still be a hassle

XD

doppelgreener

rpg.stackexchange.com/tags

it has the most questions ever :P

trogdor

Oops I forgot we could just do that

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener Wow. Given the long list of 4e questions I went through when I read through (all 800) pages of the site as I joined in, that's sort of impressive.

Also, I think that since WoTC forum shut down we may have been getting traffic that they'd have gotten before.

doppelgreener

23:39

@KorvinStarmast i'm impressed you did that!

KorvinStarmast

No way to tell that, though, sort of a proving a negative deal.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast that would make sense

trogdor

Also 3.5 questions outnumber 4e

So #@$$$_$ it everyone who complained there were too many 4e questions

:P

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener I had to figure out if I wanted to participate, given the "you are not an insider" reception I got when I first participated at all. Going through that was worth it, too, as it gave me a better idea o what SE was about, since I had never SE'd before.

@trogdor lots of good PF material as well.

trogdor

@KorvinStarmast but I don't have a personal grudge against PF soooo

:P

KorvinStarmast

23:46

@trogdor We hope that you'll be enjoying 5e, I think it's great that Naut played a paladin up to about 15. so he can give you tips if you need them. I only ever played one to 6 (since one of our guys was absent half the time) and then the campaign died.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast analytics backs that up as plausible. The forums shut down on October 2015. Our site activity slumped over that xmas period, then ramped up to elevated levels for all of 2016.

Suspiciously we continued growing at a similar pace, it was like there was just a sudden new significant bump in overall activity.

trogdor

@KorvinStarmast well the whole point I had of joining this game was to have at least one 5e game under my belt

That being said, I don't think I can ever like it as much as 4e

I may yet find I still like it better than 3.5 though

I need more data for that but that is the prediction

I am certainly enjoying it so far, but part of that might be the people rather than the system

KorvinStarmast

@trogdor The system took a while for me to get used to.

But i like it, however some of the things in this version use the same terms but aren't the same thing as previous versions. Also, I like whatthey did with advantage and healing surges/HP recovery from 4e into 5.

the always on cantrips are also nice

trogdor

Personally I like 4e healing surges better

But I understand why the difference might be appreciated more on the 5e side for some people

KorvinStarmast

I think they are a happy medium from pre 4e and post 4e.

trogdor

23:54

I don't understand that last thing

KorvinStarmast

I also think that the 5e death save is similar to, but less clunky than, the 4e death save

trogdor

I have not seen a 5e death save so no idea

KorvinStarmast

The pre 4e relied on time and magical healing. 4e gave lots of healing. 5e backs it down to a little natural recovery, and a little healing from nagic, and You Failed Two Death saves against that scorpion.

It's in the chat log in the game. :)

CTWind

I forget what was different about 4e's death saves.

trogdor

@KorvinStarmast oh yeah nvm

CTWind

23:56

I knew 4e very well but all that knowledge has drained out of my head over the last 4-5 years.

trogdor

@CTWind same

KorvinStarmast

@CTWind There's that whole bleeding out until half your max HP. I'll get you a link to a waxeagle post on that, I referenced it in one of my answers

CTWind

Oh right, there was actually negative HP

trogdor

@KorvinStarmast I kinda liked that honestly

CTWind

I've been living without it for so long I forgot that was a thing lol

trogdor

23:58

And I also liked removing the negatives before healing

KorvinStarmast

We used in in AD&D 1e, it was a new and novel feature that we liked since it gave you a chance to not lose the char.

trogdor

And that success of a high enough caliber on a death save got you a surge use

KorvinStarmast

@CTWind my answer here drew on waxy's answer for 4e.

trogdor

I liked all the safeguard against wanton PC death

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