TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

@trogdor Yeah, one of the few things I liked about 3.x, besides the massive effort to organize the system, was the return of the negative HP and bleeding out from 1e.

But I didn't like that a bunch of 2e material I had gotten at a garage sale was rendered moot, or so I thought.

CTWind

I remember one weird event in 4e where someone threw a spear at my unconscious body, which made me make an immediate death save. I rolled a nat 20 and woke up from it. No idea if that was actually by the rules or if I should've actually just gotten an auto death fail.

KorvinStarmast

That's a hell of a wake up call! Spear to the face! :)

trogdor

@CTWind that was by the rules

KorvinStarmast

I can see the RP now: Ya know, I was gonna die, but now that you hit me with a spear, I am just mad!" It's Clobberin Time!

trogdor

Again, I liked 4e death saves because they were actually intended to give you a chance not to die

3.5 would have had you just die from something like that

KorvinStarmast

12:03 AM

Yeah, it gives your party a chance to save you, which I think promotes good team play

CTWind

It was actually a teammate's spear :-P (DM was the kind where nat 1s did bad things, and they critically missed a nearby enemy and hit me instead)

trogdor

4e is very much about good team play

CTWind

I remember enjoying the shaman.

trogdor

@CTWind lol

KorvinStarmast

@CTWind rofl. We had a lot of "shoot into melee, oops you hit Korvin again" in 1e

That's one thing Diablo I replicated nicely about D&D: if the rogue shot into combat, it was not uncommon in modem days to be aiming somewhere else (due to latency/lag) and hit the fighter.

Hilarity then ensues ...

CTWind

12:06 AM

Was there friendly fire in D1 multiplayer? I played D2 first, then tried D1 and got frustrated at the lack of running relative to D2's move speed :-P

KorvinStarmast

And then that time the sorcerer set up a wall of fire while I am around the corner with my rogue, and I was instatoasted.

Yes, friendly fire in D 1 was funny as heck, or so I thought..

But I played with friends. In public games, too many PK's and griefers.

CTWind

Even in D2 that was true, but at least you had a brief moment of warning since they had to go to town to PVP flag.

KorvinStarmast

@CTWind (Played far too much D2, according to my wife).

There were annoying hacks around that ... D2 really was a field day for griefers for the first year or two.

CTWind

D2 carried me through most of middle/high school.

Pretty much until WoW came out.

KorvinStarmast

cheers, and happy gaming

CTWind

12:16 AM

I've been giving Path of Exile a shot recently, too. Parts of it gives me the impression of "What if we made a game that is based on D2, but went the opposite direction from D3 in how we're diverging from that base?". (Not that that's inherently good or bad)

trogdor

@CTWind how is Path of Exile anyway?

A lot of people have been playing that recently apparently

CTWind

It's not bad. Definitely feels super strongly inspired by D2. Very fine-grained talent system (uhh, for a possibly relevant point of reference, think Final Fantasy 10's sphere grid, with a lot of points being passive fillers of 10 in a basic stat). Near-classless; skills come from gems you put in your armor.

Class is essentially where you start on the grid, but the grid is the same for everyone.

trogdor

Oh that actually sounds really great

I liked that level system in FF10

CTWind

12:32 AM

To me, a bit complicated, at least starting off- feels like if you haven't planned out your character fully, you're probably gonna end up being pretty weak. No full/free respec.

Not necessarily bad if that kind of depth is what you're looking for- were this my high school or college days, it'd be right up my alley.

trogdor

Of that last bit though

I don't like it if I can't change my mind on a build later

CTWind

They give you 'respec points' as quest rewards and you get a set amount of those, but that just lets you take a single point out.

Then I think there's recipes to make them later on.

trogdor

Ah

CTWind

So it's not 100% locked in, but lots of effort in respeccing.

trogdor

Not as bad

I guess if I really want something completely different then I could make a new game

It actually sounds a little like what I might look for in an RPG

CTWind

12:36 AM

Talent tree is here. The class dropdown is in the bottom; Witch/ranger/marauder are the core three, and the other 3 are varying degrees of hybrid. (Scion is 'full hybrid', starting neutral in all stats and in the center of the grid. Other three are hybrids of 2 of the 'core' classes.)

BESW

12 years old and starting a #Pokemon #rpg with fate core from @EvilHatOfficial #familygames

Tweeted by justonemorefix on March 18, 2018 at 9:58 PM

Ben

@BESW Wow... that's impressive :D

BESW

@justonemorefix @aceyj87 @EvilHatOfficial He knew more of what should be happening when I ran it than I did. He is totally prepared.

Tweeted by carrie_veach on March 18, 2018 at 10:29 PM in reply to justonemorefix

trogdor

@CTWind cool I like that

BESW

12:54 AM

Therizinosauridae or 'reaper lizards' had huge claws but the purpose of these appendages remains unclear. (Credit: Vlad Konstantinov)

Tweeted by Extinct_AnimaIs on March 18, 2018 at 7:45 PM

trogdor

1:09 AM

@BESW they used those to play the Cello

Ben

1:21 AM

I need maps...

I've decided to go all out and write up a book(let) about the Diablo campaign. Written up the backstory, the setting, written about the NPCs... Now I'm getting into the actual campaign. Encounters and so on.

And one thing I need is maps

lol

BESW

What kind of maps?

Ben

Maps of Tristram, and possible dungeon maps to help players and the DM understand the layouts

As @nits and @korvin explained in our encounter

BESW

A search for "Diablo maps" turns up a lot of good-looking results.

Ben

Yeah. I'm not too worried about the dungeon maps... got maps for days there haha

But there are some that I need amore rigid format for. Specifically the Town itself, and the first level of the cathedral

BESW

Are you looking for Diablo-specific maps of these things, or just maps of towns and cathedrals?

Ben

1:29 AM

@BESW The Tristram Map needs to be Diablo specific, but the cathedral can be just "A Cathedral"

I have the idea of a floor plan in mind, for the cathedral at least

BESW

You could search "cathedral blueprints" or "schematics," or just grab any of the maps from wizards.com's old archive of all the 3.5 maps they ever published.

Ben

Oddly enough googling "Cathedral wizards 3.5" brings up Minecraft first..

BESW

Art & Map Gallery Archive

Map-a-Week archive

Ben

Oh, yeah I found it lol. Just thought it was funny that Minecraft came up in the google search.

Is there any "keyword search" function in this?

BESW

Nope! Wizards ain't that kind.

Ben

1:37 AM

Excellent. Forcing me to peruse in detail.

That may sound sarcastic, and it is, but only because it is equally sincere haha

BESW

But searching "cathedral AND map site:archive.wizards.com/" is, you know, helpful.

You can also scroll thumbnails here.

And behold, a Cathedral of Hope and Doom.

Also try "church" and "temple" keywords.

Miniman

@trogdor If you do decide to give PoE a go, let me know - having tried to get into it both with and without an experienced player guiding me, the difference is fairly significant.

KorvinStarmast

@Miniman I know a few folks who have played, let me do some checking cc @trogdor

Hmm, a place that used to have good contributors. Worth a look

Miniman

Ah, maybe I should clarify that - the first time, I tried it without help, and didn't get into it at all. The second time, I had a friend guiding me and am now a somewhat experienced player.

KorvinStarmast

OK, it's just that I know those folks from WoW and other games, so I think their advice for @trogdor might be helpful, but if you will be his mentor, all the better.

Rubiksmoose

1:53 AM

@KorvinStarmast working my way through all the 5e questions now. In reverse vote order.

Miniman

Sorry, I think I came off the wrong way there.

KorvinStarmast

No worries to me, I figured you are being helpful to troggy

trogdor

@Miniman ok fair enough, it doesn't have like, a tutorial or something about leveling up huh?

KorvinStarmast

Um, it appears that the post I linked to has links to good builds. PoE isn't a game I chose. My current "goof around like playing diablo" vice is diablo III.

trogdor

I played a few games like this, most recently a brief stint of

Torchlight

KorvinStarmast

2:06 AM

I heard that Torchlight was good fun. Might give it a look ... we'll see.

trogdor

It wasn't my copy of the game though so brief was the opperative word

But I liked it

@KorvinStarmast yeah the people who recommended it to me were almost all Diablo fans

KorvinStarmast

Do I dare get sucked into yet another vortex? twitches a bit

trogdor

Lol

KorvinStarmast

Ok, off I go, best wishes to all

Miniman

@trogdor Ehhhhh, sort of?

@trogdor I tried a few different things in this field too. PoE is definitely the one I got the most enjoyment out of, even if I put almost as much time into D3 and Grim Dawn.

trogdor

2:12 AM

I admit I like the way the skill tree looks, but it also does look intimidating

Miniman

It's a lot easier once you get used to it XD

trogdor

Sounds fair yeah

varus nobleknife

hello new to the site and i love it so far . just got informed of this chat room

whats your opinion on taking minor illusion and racial cantrip from high-elf on a rogue lvl 1 on my for arance trickster =o

as*

trogdor

Hi and welcome

varus nobleknife

thanks !

oh this is for dnd 5e

trogdor

2:26 AM

Ah ok

varus nobleknife

i suppose this chat room is for all games not just DND haha

trogdor

I was going to ask just that

It is

varus nobleknife

sweeet

trogdor

Lots of tabletop RPG'S

varus nobleknife

i bet

they are good fun

trogdor

2:27 AM

Though we do stray off topic regularly, but when someone wants to chat on topic most regulars are good at moving other discussion elsewhere

@varusnobleknife indeed they are

varus nobleknife

just got invited to join a DND group from my good friend who i work with. i jumped in head first on that opportunity hahah

trogdor

Cool

I don't know much about 5e, but maybe someone can answer your question

varus nobleknife

yeah

wait i just read above chat

is their a diablo table top game?

trogdor

@Ben is running a,.... I think 5e Diablo tabletop

?

Ben

@varusnobleknife Not that I am aware of, but I am creating a 5e variant for it

varus nobleknife

2:31 AM

=

=O

trogdor

Yeah

varus nobleknife

thats really cool man

trogdor

That's what I meant

varus nobleknife

played D2 for years

Ben

I think that's the common consensus haha

varus nobleknife

2:31 AM

hahah right

d3 was good but cant beat D2 imo

Ben

I'm having fun with it. It actually all started because a friend of mine made a similar game for All Flesh Must Be eaten - it was a modern-day variation of it.

varus nobleknife

shwweeettt

sounds fun

Ben

I should actually find someone that has a 5e pre-written campaign so I can get some direction on how to build my booklet.

varus nobleknife

so that 5e version of Diablo is it more just straight up slaying stuff? because that all i remember in Diablo hahah

Ben

Well, yeah that was the main problem. But I've got a few little things I want to add to the gameplay to switch it up a little. The "Corruption" system I'm making is the main thing

CTWind

2:36 AM

@trogdor I'm like 3-4 days into it, and I'm starting to get used to how I have to think about it but I'm also entirely unfamiliar with whatever the meta/trap selections are so still worried about that. I'm working on a piercing Kinetic Blast dual-wand build because I'm having fun with the shotgun-effect when enemies are clustered together.

varus nobleknife

yea throw a few frozen orbs in the crowd and ice em all hahha

trogdor

@CTWind it sounds very satisfying to pull off

varus nobleknife

piercing kinetic blast sounds strong ! well see you guys around keep it up with your Diablo 5e game. that is going to blow up . wouldnt see why anyone wouldnt want to play it !

hahhah i know right

Magician

PoE didn't quite grab me when I tried it. Still, my build was fairly ridiculous. Melee attacks were turned into AoE and did extra elemental damage, which on overkill would also become AoE damage. As that effect was in turn AoE all enemies became bombs. One punch, whole screen explodes.

trogdor

@Magician good lord, that sounds quite ridiculous indeed

Magician

2:52 AM

I highly doubt it's an actually efficient build, but I got through 3 acts with it barely meeting any resistance. I think I died once, due to being distracted.

trogdor

I have to say, doesn't sound like a negative to me

Magician

That's an interesting thing I've noticed: there seems to be a shift towards significantly lower difficulty overall in these kinds of games, at least at the start. Same thing happened when I tried playind D3 with a friend: we got to act 2 just facerolling everything and grew bored of it. And that was on Nightmare 1 or 2, whatever we could choose from the start.

trogdor

I like it when you can become ridiculously powerful in these games

Magician

I think there needs to be a cycle: meet harder and harder enemies, find a new item, splat them for a bit, repeat

The power fantasy quickly loses its appeal if there's never been a challenge.

trogdor

@Magician true, absolutely no difficulty at all would suck

Magician

2:55 AM

And, again, never got to endgame, didn't even finish the story.

trogdor

Yeah but I still appreciate the 2 cents worth regardless

BESW

3:28 AM

Yeah, sure, why not

Tweeted by FoldableHuman on March 19, 2018 at 4:27 AM

Ben

lol

BESW

3:50 AM

We define pastiche and discuss how it can and should be used to build narrative and game worlds in this week's #gaming #podcast. Plus, #Dishonored #ChronoTrigger #CrimsonEchoes and #BladesInTheDark @EvilHatOfficial https://soundcloud.com/backward-compatible/122-pastiche-and-worldbuilding?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter

Tweeted by BackwardCompat on March 19, 2018 at 1:17 PM

Ben

5:41 AM

So, I have a situation. There is one Player in my group that is convinced that each and every NPC that is acting slightly out of the ordinary is "Undead" and needs to be carefully inspected to make sure that they're not. And even when they do inspect them (when I allow it cos it just gets old sometimes), they're still not convinced...

Magician

Option A: that's a character quirk, roll with it. Option B: explain out-of-character that it's an extremely unlikely event, and promise you won't just screw them over by undeadifying everyone while they're not looking. These are not mutually exclusive.

Ben

Unfortunately, I have done both of these and I think it might just be time to say "ok, I get it, but it's just impeding the flow of the game every time you interrupt a conversation to check, again."

qaywsx

8:39 AM

@Ben Give this paranoid character a magic ring that detect's undead within 10 feet. Then tell the player he/she doesn't have to worry, because you will tell him/her immediately if undead are nearby.

kviiri

@qaywsx This is quite clever.

I also like Option B by Magician.

Reminds me of this one magic item I created for my party, the clapping monkey. It was supposed to be a random flavorful trinket, a little monkey statuette that was otherwise inert but if it heard a rhythm, it'd start clapping along to it for a while.

The party's rogue pilfered it and later on they chanced upon a hobgoblin march.

The rogue was smart enough to dispose of the monkey immediately, realizing the dangers of the monkey clapping along to the marching. They might've been noticed.

qaywsx

8:57 AM

Other option: you could introduce an NPC that acts really REALLY suspiciously. In fact this NPC acts so suspiciously, that it is immediately obvious, that he/she is hiding a dark secret. And of course, this dark secret is being undead. The paranoid player can feel smart, "because he/she knew it all along!!!". Plus, from then on, the player knows that it's fairly obvious if someone is undead or not, so he/she doesn't have to check everybody all the time.

kviiri

I dunno, that might just encourage them to do it more.

qaywsx

I don't know. I think if the gamemaster makes it obvious who's undead and who's not at first glance, then the players would understand that they don't have to worry. That might be preferable compared to just telling them "You don't have to worry".

kviiri

@qaywsx But it might not be that it's the player who's worried, but their character.

Like we had this one pacifist character in DnD 4e (an unusually pacifist-unfriendly game) who knew perfectly well that encounters are there to be fought but still interrupted the flow of the game by trying to stop them because that's what His Guy would do.

Szega

@kviiri If it is the character and not the player that is frustrated, it is not a problem, I think.

kviiri

@Szega It is if the player is interrupting the flow of the game to roleplay the suspicion.

Szega

9:03 AM

@kviiri Ok, yes, to some extent. But the solution is different.

You just say: "OK, from now on I'm gonna assume you are investigating 70% of NPC on suspicion of being undead" And then it is usually a problem (in-game, social), and once or twice can be useful

qaywsx

This seems to me like a player problem, not a character problem. But you might be right, it really depends on the people at the table.

No matter how the GM handles the situation, one thing is very important: 17 session after the paranoid player/character is calmed down, the GM has to reveal that the party's best friend was undead all along ... muahahaha!

Szega

@qaywsx Nah, if the player was paranoid, it would not be a nice move...

If the char, then sure.

kviiri

I don't have a lot of patience for such character quirks because they tend to get old rather quick.

qaywsx

@kviiri If all the players at the table enjoy the lengthy investigation of every NPC, then maybe the GM should roll with it. Maybe there is a deity in the setting who hates undead. This deity could approach the party and send them on a quest as some kind of "undead police". If the constant suspicion of this one player/character is annoying for everyone else, then yes, the GM should talk to the player.

kviiri

9:21 AM

@qaywsx Sure, if everyone enjoys it. But it's equally important to remember that not everyone who does these lengthy investigation things actually enjoys them.

It's as likely, if not more likely, to be a part of a paranoid gamestyle. Similar to "I check for traps every 5 feet I walk and am constantly alert for threats."

And so far I've yet to meet anyone who actually likes a paranoid gamestyle. People can think it's smart or vital but "more fun", nope, haven't seen that.

Szega

@kviiri The all guardsmen party and Twitch comes to mind

doppelgreener

9:39 AM

@Ben sounds like abused gamer syndrome in which case yes

You've told them it won't happen and promised you won't screw them over, and it's time to tell them to quit it

@qaywsx sounds useful, though I'd be concerned about them getting paranoid about anyone they can't stand near.

@Ben I'd ask them about what went on in the past that they're checking like this. Listen actively and get them to explain the situation. Learn about why it hurt them and has sat with them still even today. Articulate it back to them to make sure you understand. Then promise to them you'll work to make sure that kind of thing doesn't happen, and ask them to tell you if you do. And then ask them to relax and not check everything for undeadness.

It might be something simple and small and straightforward, and not a hurt though it's clearly left a mark. But it might also be deeper than that.

kviiri

@Szega I only know Twitch the game streaming platform.

trogdor

@doppelgreener it sounds pretty bad honestly

kviiri

@doppelgreener Abused Gamer Syndrome is a useful term I keep forgetting.

Should we have a Q&A about it?

Szega

10:02 AM

@kviiri Its a "diary" of a warhammer40k campaign, worth a read (www.theallguardsmenparty.com)

Twitch is chronically paranoid character

doppelgreener

Bankuei defines it here: bankuei.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/abused-gamer-syndrome based on this post

It comes up in a handful of posts

kviiri

10:53 AM

Hm, the part about intra-party conflict/banter/friendship is interesting. I've definitely seen our players get stuck with non-constructive bickering but I never realized it could also be out of fear for loss of agency.

Now that I think of it, it's the most anti-rails guy who tends to do it the most.

doppelgreener

11:17 AM

@kviiri where's that get mentioned? :O

kviiri

@doppelgreener Safety measure d

Joel Harmon

@Ben One possible solution: In the next town they get to, about half the people they meet rave about how great the mayor is, who has been in charge for as long as anyone remembers. Turns out he's a LG ghost who loves the town so much, he simply refused to let his own death get in the way of helping it.

That is, validate his assumption that some of the NPCs are undead, but question the assumption that it's inherently bad, or that all undead are inherently evil.

doppelgreener

11:40 AM

@kviiri ooh, this makes sense

@JoelHarmon awww. :D

i think that sounds great, if the setting can permit the notion of non-evil undead :P

kviiri

2spooky4me

BESW

Happy Naw-Rúz!