TRPG General Chat

trogdor

12:00 AM

Congratulations I had to look that one up

Ben

This is apatite:

Dad joke of the week

doppelgreener

Now that I know this rock exists, I can make a scientist who can make an apatite-powered ray gun and sometimes make jokes about how they don't have the apatite for this.

You have created something terrible, maybe

@Ben but this is great

Ben

@doppelgreener For the record - it is used as some forms of fertilizer/plant food

doppelgreener

@Ben ooh, lovely

nitsua60

Wait, @Miniman. How come your vote didn't gold-hammer this question?!

doppelgreener

12:07 AM

@nitsua60 It didn't have D&D 5e in first iteration.

nitsua60

Ahh....

Ben

@nitsua60 I think maybe that's what he was saying about the point he posted earlier: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/41566099#41566099

doppelgreener

The gold dupe-hammer only applies when the very first iteration has a relevant tag, otherwise a gold badger can just dupe-hammer anything arbitrarily by adding their gold tag then removing it after the close.

nitsua60

Ah, yup. I'm a day-and-a-half-or-so behind on chat.

doppelgreener

Wake up, sherson!

nitsua60

12:09 AM

Trip to NYC and back yesterday, after a full day of work. Makes for a long day.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Not quite - Ben's right, it's what I was saying earlier. My dupehammer works unless I was the one who put the tag on it, so I can't enable it myself.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Wow!

@Miniman Oh, really!? That's handy!

Ben

@trogdor Actually fun fact - I only learned about apatite through Minecraft. I played the "Feed the Beast" modpack a lot, which introduced quite a lot of farming variation

trogdor

@nitsua60 that is quite the trip

Miniman

@doppelgreener Yeah, it's really clever.

trogdor

12:11 AM

@Ben man that game has a looooot of mods

nitsua60

@trogdor It was good, though. I got to spend some time with the visitor from St. Paul's Cathedral (London) who'll be judging the ringing competition my kids are participating in this weekend.

doppelgreener

@trogdor it even has mods of loot

Ben

That's the beauty of it. There is no rules to that game, even in vanilla, so adding more to it is really not that hard

doppelgreener

@Ben until they conflict and then you get the programming & game server maintenance equivalent of D&D 3.5e

trogdor

@doppelgreener the gadgets have multiplied! Send more metal claw arms!

Ben

12:13 AM

@doppelgreener gaming.se minecarft crash question

trogdor

@nitsua60 nice

Ben

12:29 AM

boredpanda.com/calvin-hobbes-star-wars-drawings-brian-kesinger/…

Ben

12:53 AM

@Miniman "The chain shoots out of the darkness, [dictate outcome of dex save]. Followed by the gruesome appearance of a hulking beast. A gurgling voice rumbles from within.. 'Fresh meat!'"

He has the charge, and the hook... I was thinking of giving him resistance to melee, but would it be better to give him nerfed rage? I.e., only lasts 3 rounds?

Shalvenay

@Ben that seems more thematic, yes

Miniman

@Ben If you're giving him rage, I'd suggest either when he damages someone or when someone damages him.

And have him say something about blood, etc.

Ben

@Shalvenay For a CR2 boss fight, 3 rounds might be a bit much though... especially since the entire party is going to be wailing on him

@Miniman Isn't that what normal rage is?

Or are you saying that's the trigger for the rage?

Miniman

@Ben Yep, that's what I meant.

Ben

Ah ok

All in all, I think that'd make a good version of him - got all the features, not over-burdened with abilities... just gotta do the math now

Which I am terrible at lol

Condition immunities for a large creature?

Miniman

1:03 AM

Well, he's definitely immune to Frightened.

Charmed, too.

Ben

I was thinking prone?

But if the party want to work together to try and trip him up, I'd allow that (two hold a rope and the fighter "grapples" him)

Also how would I specify that he can do one action, or another, per round?

So "Butcher's Hook" can be used once per turn, or "Charge"

Also if there's anyone from England here, no, I don't intend that to be Cockney. Lol

Or actually... I'll make that a Lair action.

Ben

1:24 AM

> Charge Once per round, the Butcher can charge in a random direction, to the edge of the room. If the Butcher comes into contact with anyone (including in the initial square), they must make a DCx Dexterity saving throw, or take x damage, and be knocked prone. Once the butcher reaches the edge of the room, he is Stunned for the next 3 turns

Thots?

Shalvenay

hey there @Asteria

Miniman

1:39 AM

@Ben Any one who's stunned for 3 turns is pretty much guaranteed to die.

(Unless they're built to be invincible otherwise, but that's drifting into Zelda territory.)

Ben

@Miniman turns, not rounds

So butcher charges, then it's the ranger's go, then the butcher's go (cos he used it as a lair action), then the sorc's go, and then the Butcher is not longer stunned

BESW

Tumblr: Comic Cartography, maps from comics.

Ben

Is that what you meant? @Miniman

BESW

Does 5e do that kind of thing, or are you inventing a new duration unit?

Ben

@BESW I've seen it used before.

BESW

1:49 AM

'cause in every other system I've ever used, including D&D 3.5 and 4e, "X turns" means "X of this character's turns."

Ben

@BESW Yes, that's the distinction I'm making of "turn" v "round"

BESW

Yeah, well. This is the only place I've ever seen "next X turns" mean what you're using it to mean.

Ben

15

Q: What are turns and rounds and how long are they each?

In AD&D a turn was ten 6-second rounds during combat. So when I read in D&D 5e that the Thief's Sneak Attack ability says "Once per turn you can deal an extra 1d6 damage", is this saying that abilities like this (e.g. Sneak Attack, Colossus Slayer, etc.) can be done every 6 seconds (i.e., once a...

Perhaps "next 3 consecutive turns"?

BESW

If you're the only one who's going to see the text, describe it however you like.

But it's a concept that D&D doesn't usually use--the idea of a character counting off other characters' turns and having an effect expire partway through waiting for their own next turn.

Ben

@BESW Well, I may not. Lol. I was inspired by a friend, who ran this game in an All Flesh Must be Eaten system. I'm developing it for D&D

BESW

1:53 AM

It plays havoc with initiative tactics, for one.

Miniman

Yeah, this is a really weird idea. I'd suggest "until the start of its next turn" as an alternative - still gets to go, but people attacking it get the benefit.

Ben

@Miniman Hmm... Ok. In that case I'll add the option to "shake" the Stunned condition on it's next turn.

nitsua60

@BESW In 1e or 2e or both (can't recall right now) there might have been things which lasted "X segments," where those needed to be counted off and could have a similar effect. But it wasn't different people's turns happening that ticked this clock, it was the notion that initiative differences actually represented small differences in the timing of actions.

(I'm not describing that well.)

BESW

I'm normally all in favor of weird ideas, but D&D's got enough exception-based shenanigans without adding untested initiative hacks unless there's a really good reason for 'em; the turns-per-round balance is one of the few universal constants D&D can actually rely on.

Ben

@BESW Weird still needs to be balanced, and easily understandable

BESW

2:08 AM

Understandable at the very least! Balanced... yeah, D&D tries to care about that too.

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

Ben

> Once the butcher reaches the edge of the room, it is Stunned until the start of its next turn, when it can make a DCx (?) saving throw to shake the Stunned condition.

I was thinking Con check

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

nitsua60

@Ben You're statting up KD:M in 5e?

Ben

2:14 AM

@nitsua60 KD:M?

Miniman

@Ben See, I just know if I tried that, he'd fail his saving throw five times in a row.

nitsua60

Kingdom Death: Monster

@Shalvenay Not too shabby. You?

Ben

@nitsua60 I don't know what that is, sorry lol

@Miniman Haha yeah, that's why I don't want to make it too hard... maybe a DC10

nitsua60

Interesting. Your description of the butcher sounds like an enemy in KD:M. "The Butcher," he's called =)

Ben

@nitsua60 Ah. Well I'm actually doing this for the Diablo monster called "The Butcher"

nitsua60

2:16 AM

gallery.kingdomdeath.com/Butcher

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 OK here, save for having the wrong dies for my crimper :P so those are on order.

Ben

Very different haha

In appearance, at least

trogdor

@nitsua60 won't lie, a little confusing there

Miniman

@Ben I actually think the D1 Butcher looks better, personally.

More Butcher-ish and less generic-demon-ish.

Ben

@Miniman Yeah I can understand that, but I can't find any decent artwork for it

In other news...

nitsua60

2:41 AM

today's non seqitur: there aren't enough people named "$firstname the $anotherfirstname" anymore. "Amy the Tina" or "Jimmy the Nick" or "Robert the Bruce," for instance.

BESW

I dunno about Amy the Tina, but Nick and Bruce aren't being used as names there.

nitsua60

Wow, that came out of nowhere. Grabbing for two typically-male names I came up with "Jimmy the Nick." And remembered, in the typing, that I know a guy we called "Jimmy the Nick." So there's one, at least.

BESW

Nick means Jimmy's a thief; Bruce means Robert's from the forest.

trogdor

Lol

nitsua60

So, strangely enough, in this case from my past "Jimmy the Nick" is totally being used as a name. There was this kid in college named Jimmy. Or Nick. I forget. And at the time my roommate couldn't remember his name and kept calling him Nick. Or Jimmy. I forget. So eventually we just settled on "Jimmy the Nick" as a good compromise. For everyone but Jimmy. Nick. Whoever.

@BESW OTOH, "Tina the Fey" totally works on a lot of excellent levels =)

BESW

2:45 AM

Well, Robert specifically is descended from the de Bruses, which just means "We're from Brix in Normandy."

trogdor

Fey ain't a respectable first name

BESW

But Bruce as a surname came to mean "from the forest" or "from the swamp," depending on who you ask.

nitsua60

"They said I was daft to build a castle in a Bruce! So I did it anyway, just to show 'em."

BESW

(There was a another place in Normandy, Brioze, which basically means "muddy," and folks from that place were also "the Bruce.")

(cf the Scottish Clan Bruce.)

trogdor

That is actually hilarious

Though also unfortunate considering it's reflections of a larger trend

Shalvenay

3:00 AM

hey again @Asteria

Ben

3:29 AM

Ah. I just realised. @Minimal, @daze413 I'm unfortunately going to miss the game this week :(

trogdor

@Ben I don't think it pings him when spelled that way

Miniman

@trogdor You'd be surprised.

trogdor

Oh did it?

nitsua60

@Miniman This reminds me of the same college roommate as I mentioned before. He had a habit of responding "you'd be surprised" at times when that didn't seem... expected. Then, if you happened to look somewhere else or turn away he'd do something to startle you. It only worked once per person, but there're a lot of people out there....

Miniman

@trog Not in the way you mean. But I can get pinged by many different means.

trogdor

3:38 AM

@Miniman don't ping me bro don't ping me!

Lol

nitsua60

@trogdor I thought it was "brah," no?

Miniman

@trogdor I don't actually know where that one's from.

nitsua60

University of Florida Taser incident

On September 17, 2007, U.S. Senator John Kerry addressed a Constitution Day forum at the University of Florida in Gainesville, which was organized by the ACCENT Speakers Bureau, an agency of the university's student government. Andrew Meyer, a 21-year-old fourth-year undergraduate mass communication student, had initially been allowed to ask a question after the close of the question period. He asked Kerry whether he was a member of Skull and Bones, as George W. Bush is, implying that Kerry did not contest Bush's presidency because of their shared affiliation. Meyer was forcibly pulled away from...

trogdor

@Miniman ah fair enough @nitsua60 thanks for linking that

Miniman

@trogdor I mean, I knew the meme. Just not the origin.

nitsua60

3:49 AM

(WP agrees with you that it's "bro," not "brah." Guess I'm conflating my frat brahs with my tase bros.)

trogdor

@Miniman eh still worth a link

@nitsua60 I'm ....... Right? Ma! I was right about something! XD

BESW

Have you picked up a copy of Karthun: Lands of Conflict? You should. It’s system-neutral and a great source for campaign ideas. You can get the book AND the PDF right here: https://www.evilhat.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79&products_id=325&zenid=no50qb52d67octda2a4ghlg193 #dnd #FateCore

Tweeted by d20monkey on December 5, 2017 at 5:59 PM

Accidentally took out a bowl instead of a cup for coffee just now and hesitated way too long about whether to put it back or just lean in.

Tweeted by unlevelednate on December 5, 2017 at 9:25 PM

nitsua60

@BESW I found myself earlier today with a bottle of orange juice in one hand and a bowl in the other. Agree that the hesitation is unnecessary. Just lean in.

@trogdor I was poking around for an appropriate response and found your soulmate:

trogdor

Lol

I can't believe someone did that

But also I can

It is a thing of beauty either way

Shalvenay

4:05 AM

hey there @Nyoze

Nyoze

\o

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Nyoze

Slowly, just at work, wishing someone would post in one of my games lol

Shalvenay

@Nyoze heheh. you want to start making a 5e char, or do you have one handy already?

Nyoze

4:21 AM

Actually... Finding a premade character wouldn't be a bad idea :O

Ben

@trogdor That's what the ping tag says...

Shalvenay

@Nyoze hrm. there are some rather generic premades on WotC's website

@Nyoze is there a particular reason you say that tho? just time factors, or not having the materials handy?

Nyoze

Both. I'm limited by what material is available online, and there's so many things which you can see, but aren't explained because it's not in the open source srd lol

trogdor

@Ben I was shown to be mistaken at any rate :)

Ben

@trogdor I'm just confused because I've never seen it spelled another way

Shalvenay

4:26 AM

@Nyoze ah

trogdor

@Ben Wait,... It's minimal for you?

Shalvenay

@Nyoze the Player's Basic Rules explain most of the things that the SRD doesn't re: 5e

trogdor

Err minimal or wtv

Aaargh autocorrect

Ben

@trogdor Well the fact that you say that spelling is "minimal" suggests that there is something I don't know. Lol

Even his profile is spelled that way

Miniman

1 hour ago, by Ben

Ah. I just realised. @Minimal, @daze413 I'm unfortunately going to miss the game this week :(

Ben

4:33 AM

...

Well I'm a dope hahaha

Miniman

It was pretty funny watching that one play out XD

Ben

I'd bet haha

Well, that bein said, did that actually ping you? Because I think the system sort of goes "that's close enough"

Hence why I can ping @mini

Miniman

@Ben Nah, my comments to trogdor were meant to show how I'm always watching and almost anything in any way relevant to me "pings" me.

Alphaeus

Evening folks

Ben

@Miniman fair haha

Miniman

4:37 AM

@Ben If the prefix unambiguously identifies someone, it'll ping them, but only as a prefix.

So @Be won't ping anyone, because there's 2 matches.

@trog will ping trogdor., because it could only be him.

But @trogdoor won't ping anyone, because it doesn't match anyone.

Ben

@Miniman Ahhh.... I always thought there was a minimum character limit

Miniman

Side note: Don't you open that TROG-DOOR! You're a fool, if you dare. Don't you open that TROG-DOOR! Cos there's something down there.

Nyoze

I wonder how many people have names that can be pinged by 2 characters...

Ben

@y

Alphaeus

I think I'm the only @Al

Ben

4:40 AM

[Yuuki]

Nyoze

C is CTWind... G is Greysage... We've got a few pingable by one letter lol

trogdor

@Ben autocorrect deserves a thousand deaths

Miniman

Remember, it's only based on who's been here recently.

Ben

@Miniman ah yeah

@trogdor Lol

trogdor

I was trying to spell it exactly as you had, and instead it changed to an actual word every time

Nyoze

4:42 AM

That's a point.

trogdor

I saw nothing wrong with the spelling of Daze's name but I can see where the communication broke down XD

Ben

@trogdor ...with a capital "M"?

@trogdor It was my b. I just assumed cos he has an "xbox live" type name lol

Like mine is "Woulfman1024" - yes... with a "u"

trogdor

@Ben yeah exactly

I thought maybe that would tip you off

Nyoze

Some of the Xbox names are just amusing lol

Ben

@trogdor huh. Yeah your autocorrect is all sorts of weird haha

trogdor

4:45 AM

But of course, spell check saw no reason to capitalize that

Ben

@Nyoze "You were sniped by A Hobo On A Bench"

trogdor

My spell check is a demon from the outer dimension of annoyanxe

Ben

@trogdor lol.

Nyoze

No, it's AHoboOnABench4735

trogdor

Yes I spelled that wrong, caught it and stuck with it anyway

Ben

4:47 AM

@Nyoze That's what made it so good. That was the actual spelling. All spaced and no numbers

trogdor

Because the demon hates that spelling and I wish to punish it

Nyoze

Oh wow, really? Damn :O

Ben

"A Hobo On A Bench assassinated you"

Nyoze

ThinkableCard7. That's my old one. Not that I ever used it, but it made me laugh

Ben

"Battle Penguin" was the other one I wanted to use haha

Nyoze

4:49 AM

Oh man, that would be awesome :P

Ben

So - switching lanes - who likes D&D math??

daze413

@Ben Ah well, this works for me, too. I think the holiday isn't going to push through or we'd've heard about it already

@Ben [raises hand]

Ben

You couldn'tve come at a better time hha

Alphaeus

@Ben I do

But I'm odd like that :P

BESW

The Blades in the Dark website has gotten a whole new look! Also, the entire System Reference Document and CC-licensing info is up now. https://bladesinthedark.com

Tweeted by john_harper on December 6, 2017 at 12:44 AM

Ben

4:53 AM

I have a CR2 boss monster with several abilities, and I need to figure out stats and weapon/ability damage

daze413

ht me up with the statblock, then,

Ben

Well that's part of it haha

daze413

Is this the Diablo port you and Miniman were talking about?

Ben

@daze413 Yeah, "The Butcher"

daze413

oooh cool, ok, hit me with the partial statblock then. Or gimme the abilities you put in already

Ben

4:55 AM

I need to figure out a balanced stat block, as well as the appropriate weapon and ability damage

BESW

🎵 Hit me with your stat block! 🎶

4

daze413

ability damage, do you mean it reduces a target's ability scores?

Alphaeus

Ability damage..coolio

Ben

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ryXs9dgS-M

@daze413 As in the damage that his abilities can deal

Alphaeus

@Ben what edition are you porting this to?

Ben

4:57 AM

@Alphaeus 5e

daze413

@Ben Ah, we can work that back from the target Final CR, and how you want to distribute Offensive and Defensive CR

Alphaeus

Ahhh...I'm a bit less help for there

Nyoze

This "Diablo" themed dungeon. Are you going to have TP scrolls? :D

Ben

Just base D&D, not roll20 or anything

@Nyoze I have a way of managing that... but not through scrolls

Party is 3-5 level 2 PCs

Oh - something to add: the "Bloodlust" only lasts for 2 rounds (maybe 3... but you'll have to convince me)

daze413

seems a bit excess XD most fights last only 2-3 rounds. CR2 creatures don't last long against a 4-man 2nd level party, in my experience

Nyoze

5:01 AM

I was watching "Is it wrong to pick up girls in a dungeon" the other day, and thinking about your Diablo dungeon at the same time.

Ben

@Nyoze Never seen it

Nyoze

Made me think that actually having a dungeon you can clear level by level would be fun. Gives you a chance to worry less about resources and more about killing everything, and having stronger fights then you would otherwise.

Ben

@daze413 Well this boss is one I want to draw out a bit. Hence the Bloodlust- primarily. Make him harder to take down, though not necessarily overpowered in terms of damage

Nyoze

Just a generic dungeon crawl anime, but made me think about the Adventure for however long you want, unlock level. Go home, rest in town, return back to X level.

Level 2 PC is going to have... What, 10-15HP on average?

daze413

@Ben A couple things you need to consider before putting in the damage and to-hits: how do you want to arrive at final CR2? Would your OCR-DCR be 2-2, or 3-1, or 1-3?

Nyoze

5:03 AM

And... I'm out. I have no idea what OCR or DCR is lol

Ben

@Nyoze Ah right yeah. When I was first introduced to a "Diablo Dungeon", it was in a modern day setting. The Cathedral was actually a mega hospital, and the "Exits" were fire escape doors.

daze413

@Nyoze yeah, around 15HP with average stats

Ben

@daze413 OCR/DCR?

daze413

@Ben sorry, offensice Challenge rating, and Defensive Challenge Rating

Ben

@daze413 Over my head sorry haha. This will be the first official game I've actually constructed myself.

Nyoze

5:05 AM

Ahhh

From my memory of the butcher in Diablo... He was more defensive then he was offensive.

daze413

@Ben oh hmm.. OK, let's say 2-2, for simplicity's sake. And we'll adjust as we go

Nyoze

I mean... He hurt, a lot, but he was easy to dodge?

Ben

@Nyoze I'm leaning more toward D3 for battle tactics - I mean d1 was very much "Attack your square", so "dodging" was easy because all you had to do was not be in an adjacent square when he attacked

@daze413 He is more aggressive than defensive, in my mind - Bloodrage-beast-murder-kill

@Nyoze The tactics in D1 were very much "Swing, move, swing, move, swing, move - repeat until dead."

daze413

ok so I'll run you through my process when I homebrew baddies... I start with Final CR first, that's 2. Then decide the OCR/DCR based on the baddie, for now, we'll say 2-2 for about an even offensive cpaabilty and toughness. Next, I like to figure out the HP and AC from there.

At DCR 2, you'll want 86-100 HP if your AC is 13.

Ben

In D3 it's very much just [spam all abilities] "Aw damn I got hit by the fire! There goes that achievement!" haha

@daze413 100 hp! Holy hell!

daze413

5:14 AM

yeah, BUT! you have bloodlust, which is effectively resistance to all melee damage

which, btw, is weird? Ranged damage doesnt get resisted?

Ben

@daze413 Run me through the logic of that - he is easy to hit, so he has lots of HP. At level 2 a PC will do (x) damage... etc

Yes, that will play a part in that

daze413

do you mean just Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing?

Ben

@daze413 Yeah. "Physical" would probably be better

daze413

like a Barbarian's rage

well, if you follow the technical wording of DnD5e, it should be explicitly Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage

Ben

@daze413 Pretty much - I just wanted it to be something that turned on and off regularly

daze413

5:17 AM

@Ben Problem with how you set up bloodlust right now is it lasts for 2 rounds, which is pretty long already. This fight may very well end after 2 rounds, or if not, most of the PCs dead

Ben

Yeah ok. This is the initial draft, so I'm cool with improvements

Maybe just remove the +2 to hit?

daze413

anyway, that's an aside. What I meant by that is, with how bloodlust is now, we can assume it's always on, and calculate the HP from there

Ben

@daze413 Ah ok

daze413

so really it's not 90HP, it's more like 45

Ben

@daze413 Wait

Just to clarify, the amount of HP should be the other way around then? Like, if it's always on, 45 HP would be more like 90

He has less HP, but only takes half damage

daze413

5:23 AM

@Ben yes, his HP is effectively 90 because he takes half damage from 3 damage types

Ben

@daze413 Right yeah. I think I see where you're coming from.

daze413

so at 45 HP, and assuming, what? +2 Con? That's 6 hit dice, 45 (6d10+12) HP

DCR is the easy part, though. Now comes the tricky part... Offensive Challenge Rating

at OCR2, thats 15-20 DPR, but that's only +3 to-hit, which is kinda bad, so we move down the table to OCR1 so we can increase the to-hit to +5

Ben

okj

daze413

that puts the damage output per round to 9-14

Ben

@daze413 Well, since the PCs will only have about 10-15 HP isn't that perhaps a bit much?

daze413

5:37 AM

@Ben you dont hit all the time, so in practice the real damage is about half of that.

Ben

Well, yes, but when it does hit, that's a 1-hit KO

daze413

and in CR calculations, we always assume all the hits hit

Ben

Ok

daze413

@Ben I guess, but I've never really experienced a monster I homebrewed 1-hit-k.o. anything. Even when I delliberately gave it crazy damage. (check Swine Prince chat logs in The Backroom) PCs always find a way to mitigate or avoid it, it seems

Ben

Fair enough

I am paying attention btw. Just sot of back and forth a bit

daze413

5:49 AM

lol yeah, me too. OCR is kinda tricky so I'll be a while

Basically, you want to divide the 9-14 damage into two, 1) for the regular actions, and 2) for the charge lair action

Ben

@daze413 Ohhh right I see what you mean. I thought that was per attack haha

daze413

@Ben yeah, it's tougher to figure out now with this, since we really don't have enough wiggle room with 9-14 DPR as a LARGE creature

if we assume The Butcher is using an oversized cleaver, maybe 2d6 damage, that's already 7 damage, w/o his strength in it... probably 11 with +4 STR

so that leaves us with a 4 damage charge

around 1d6

and that's it! CHARGE should deal around 1d6 damage, while the Hook and Cleaver should deal around 11 damage with +3~4 STR

I am worried about the CHARGE ability stunning The Butcher though... Stunned is a pretty strong condition, and you're "trading" getting stunned with the ability to knock PCs prone? Seems a bit lackluster

if anything, Charge seems more of a liability to use

also didnt read this the first time, but it's a random direction :o I would definitely not use this XD

Ben

Yeah... I want some kind of trade off for that

Nyoze

Charge seems like it should really hurt if it connects, but not have a high chance of hitting.

Ben

@daze413 "random" was probably the wrong word. He can choose the direction, it just may appear random

daze413

6:01 AM

Hm, that's about the limit of the homebrewing rules/calculations there... If you wanna do that, you'll get into the "Deep" homebrewing, which can only be balanced with playtests!

Ben

@daze413 perhaps "dazed" instead

except that's from 3.5

daze413

@Ben even TheAngryGM thought my name was "attempt[ing] to be funny", but really I don't even know what Dazed did in older editions XD

Ben

All in all, the ability is taken pretty much straight out of D3 - he charges in a (seemingly) random direction - I think it's more of "in that general direction", and hits the wall, were he is stunned for a short period of time (3-5 seconds I believe?)

@Nyoze You're suggesting that's how it should be? Or that's how it is?

daze413

@Ben Yeah, I could see what you wanted to achieve with that, but I don't think it translates well to DnD

Ben

@daze413 Yeah not everything does, which is fair.

daze413

6:07 AM

@Ben not is, if Charge only deals 6 damage XD

Ben

Would it be better if it just didn't stun him at all?

Nyoze

How it should be lol. Cause yeah, charging down to deal 6 damage just seems... Meh.

1 Round in D&D is about equiv to 6 seconds time anyway, so... If he's using his entire action to charge, that would be about equivalent to the stun?

Ben

@Nyoze Well, a PC has 15 hp, they get caught by the hook, he swings with the cleaver, then charges - boom. Dead PC

daze413

@Ben Well, that's the easy way to make it work. But where's the fun in that?

Nyoze

Can he do all 3 in the space of 1 turn?

daze413

6:08 AM

@Ben Actually, no, thats at least 2 turns there

Ben

@Nyoze Lair action. Basically he can do this at any point in a round

daze413

@Ben Lair actions happen at initiative 20

Ben

@daze413 Yes. I'm summarizing

daze413

if you mean Legendary Action...?

Ben

@daze413 Basically it's something he can do at will, outside of initiative order

I was given a phrase, with out any in-depth explanation. Lol

daze413

6:10 AM

but in 2 turns, he could get hit by Guiding Bolts, Action Surges, and other nasty stuff the nasty PCs have :D

ah, yeah, you mean Legendary Action, not Lair

Does Charge provoke Opportunity Attacks?

Ben

@daze413 I'll have to alter that then, for my Skelly King too

daze413

By the wording, it should. Which is another deterrent not to use it

Ben

@daze413 Negatory

Nyoze

This is just me being used to Pathfinder, but Charge there just lets the character use a regular attack, but higher chance to hit. Maybe his charge should be the same damage as a standard attack, but bonus since he gets to use it out of turn?

daze413

@Ben OH! Cool idea: how about you give the charge-ed PC a choice to either jump out of the way with a normal Dex ST OR a PC could risk getting hit with Disadvantage on the Save but he can make an opportunity attack? idk. just putting in interesting choices

Ben

6:13 AM

Well, that "chance to hit" is a Dex save on the PC's part. The Fighter and possibly Paladin would be the only people in combat with him. and their dex's (should be) fairly low, so the chance to dodge is also low

daze413

@Nyoze nah, even in Dnd5e, this Charge is not by-the-book hehe. Normal Charge works like that too, just adds a bonus to damage

Nyoze

Ahh, I wasn't sure :)

Ben

I suppose, Charge isn't exactly intended as a means to deal damage. It's more of a way to turn the tables - I.e that sorc in the corner is being a real pain in the butt. [Charge] - knock down fighter and paladin, which will take more than a turn each to close the distance

Now the pressure is on the sorc to just not die, so the tactics completely change for 1-2 rounds

He can disengage, etc, or act defensively, or risk getting hit with a low AC and lower HP pool.

daze413

@Ben I have never played D1, and cant remember much of the D3 butcher, but doesnt the charge not stun if you hit a creature?

Ben

@daze413 No, merely knocks them back.

In D1 he didn't even have that ability

He was just a Chop-Chop-train

daze413

6:22 AM

ok, there's an idea to increase the Charge damage, and keep the Stun drawback, but modelling that would be tricky... @Nyoze has a point on the 1round=6 seconds, and the wording "Stunned until the start of its next turn" is pretty spot on for that, but I'd remove the attempt to save, and just have him un-stunned at the start of its turn

but! that's exploitable. What if you use it at the end of the turn before The Butcher? all the time XD

Ben

@daze413 Well, the reason for the save is because it was mean to happen outside of initiative order. So he could take it immediately before his own turn

@daze413 yeah. lol

daze413

@Ben ah, I see that now... it still feels exploit-y, and that's about 50/50 chance that the Butcher is screwed for a round or 25% chance that he'll be stunned for two...

or 12.5% for three

If a Sorcerer was giving me problems, I'd rather use the Hook instead of Charge

this is tricksy

Ben

@daze413 Possibly. With the downside of now he has 3 enemies wailing on him, instead of 1

daze413

Hm. If we make it so that Hook does significantly less damage than Cleaver, and increase the damage from Charge...

No, it still wouldn't work...

Ben

Basically, I want this boss to be tough in that he is hard to keep track of - constantly moving himself, and others about the battlefield. Not particularly hard to kill, just hard to hit (again, not because of AC, just because he's only in reach ahlf the time)

He's meant to be faster than he looks

daze413

6:32 AM

At this point, with what you want to do with Charge, playtesting is the only solution

Ben

@daze413 OK

daze413

so that works out to about: +6 to hit, 2d6+4... at +4 Str

the rest of the stats, you can just kinda estimate where they're at

Ben

13 AC would be probably +1/+2 dex?

daze413

if you assume he has natural armor, it could be less

Ben

@daze413 True

daze413

6:38 AM

@Ben If you want to playtest, I can roll up 4 2nd-levels in like 1 minute

Ben

Wow! Done!

You wanna do it now?

BESW

> Bank shot. If your Shoot attack succeeds with style, you can give up two stress to make a second attack against another target who you could shoot if you were standing where the first target is.

daze413

haha I dont Fate (yet) but I can see it working in my head. Nice

@Ben Up to you XD I'll be in and out, though.

and text-only

BESW

> Trick Shot. You can downgrade a successful Shoot attack to a tie in order to take a second shot with an extra +2 against a target you could shoot if you were standing where the first target is.

Ben

Average of 2d6 +4?

daze413

6:46 AM

11

BESW

> Called shot. Pick a number between 1 and 4 before each attack you make with Shoot. If the absolute value of your unmodified dice roll is that number, add it to your attack as a weapon rating.

Ben

Ok. Going of rough memory here - correct me if I got anything wrong

I also went "There-abouts" with the save DC

12 seemed.. ok

@daze413 You wanna go with 2 melee, 2 ranged?

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ryXs9dgS-M

BESW

@daze413 That's something I really like about Fate--it's narrative enough that most of the mechanics make sense as plain text.

... And that means plain text can often just be mechanics.

Ben

@daze413 All g. we can do it in TBR?

@Nyoze @Miniman if anyone else would Like to join in a play-test of The Butcher?

Nyoze

I may as well if you want :O I found the 5e database of precons up to level 10, so just tell em a class and I'll grab a sheet

Ben

6:58 AM

Whatever is easiest. daze was saying he could hip up 4 PCs in a heartbeat but W/e

Level 2. Fighter, Sorc, Ranger, or Paladin I suppose

Nyoze

Well, I'll see what Daze does, don't want to step on any toes

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