RPG General Chat

12:12 AM

1

Q: I really don't think this question on how to get feedback on homebrew material was a shopping question

So, I realize we don't actually have a consensus definition of what a recommendation question is at this point, but bear with me. A question was asked recently about how to get feedback on a homebrew pokemon/D&D crossover class. The question was put on hold, not because the question was asking ...

trogdor

12:27 AM

@doppelgreener if I was ever uploaded into a rampaging AI controlled robot, all you would have to do to beat it is show it the "sacrifice play" card, or even just read it the flavor text XD

I almost got sucked into thinking too hard about recursive chess

Even with a meatbrain

Ben

@trogdor I once thought "08" was next year

Alphaeus

out of context this convo makes no sense

except the words "recursive chess"

Ben

Context makes tings boring :P

Alphaeus

:P

Depending, yes

trogdor

@Alphaeus the context is only greeber's magic card links and my brain's interpretation of one of them

Ben

12:31 AM

I am so effing bored... I was set up to do all sorts of mind-numbing brain dead work today... and now I can't because someone else has locked me out of the file!

T-T

trogdor

You can't really have all the context except what I already said XD

@Ben wow deja vu here XP

Ben

I have no drive to do anything else because my brain has already shut down, but there is nothing else to do anyway!

BESW

Today's No Context Need Apply quote: *That's not communism, that's basic hygiene."

Shalvenay

@BESW LOL. and the unhygenic "free-market" proposal of the day was?

BESW

BETTER RED THAN SMEG.

Miniman

12:38 AM

@Ben So the Butcher has to have a hook ability, right?

Ben

He can...

I'm liking the idea of adapting future versions of enemies to their later versions

Miniman

Yeah, I just looked it up, and apparently I'd completely forgotten how he works in D1.

That said, just making him a super-fast melee character seems a little boring.

Ben

Yeah. He's the same in D2

Definitely needs Charge as well

That challenge though, is that he's going to be levelled for a level 2 party. So CR2-ish

Hang on... lemme see if I can find my list

doppelgreener

@trogdor the one I love is Kindslaver. "Here. You're in charge now." "... what do I do?" "We can't tell you. You'll figure something out."

Miniman

12:55 AM

@Ben From memory he's pretty slow in D2, actually.

Ben

Yeah

He was hella fast in 1, in 2 he was just the Chop-Chop train

Miniman

Oh wait, I was thinking of Griswold.

Is the Butcher actually in 2?

Ben

Yeah. In the area just before the cathedral

at least I think he was...

He was guarding the Smith's Hammer in Act 1

Miniman

You might be thinking of The Smith.

Ben

You would be correct

He's effectively just a re-skinned Butcher though haha

Miniman

12:59 AM

Yeah pretty much XD

Ben

I feel like a lot of Diablo 2 was just a "What else can we do?" Type situation - they just added more to the game. Whereas D3 dialed it back a lot.

Miniman

I'm not sure I'd ever describe D3 as dialing aanything back.

Except maybe character building.

Ben

Well, there was less in it, in terms of content, compared to D2, but they made more of it.

Shalvenay

hey there @Ben

Ben

\o

Shalvenay

1:04 AM

how're things going?

Ben

@Miniman here is the list of "monster encounters" for floor 2:
Blink (swarm creature) - basically bats, but can “teleport” very short distances
Hidden (Single enemy) - is only visible when attacking, claw attacks
Fallen (Mob creature) - basically demonic imps

Boss: The Butcher - large creature, uses a huge cleaver, resilient to physical damage

@Shalvenay Miniman has rescued me from my boredom of having nothing to do haha

Miniman

@Ben The 2 of those that weren't in later games are both really cool.

Ben

Ikr

Miniman

The Hidden especially is going to be an awesome enemy for D&D.

Ben

honestly I haven't put too much thought into how to do it, apart from perhaps a 50/50 chance to hit? I.e. if they miss, it's because they "blinked"

Wait. Wrong one haha

Miniman

1:07 AM

The Hidden is perma-invis, except when it attacks.

So that ability pretty much writes itself.

Ben

The hidden - yeah. I want that one to be really suspenseful - like basically next ot no way to track it, and only reactions

Killing it wouldn't be too hard (low AC, low HP) - the trouble is trying to figure out where it is going to be next

trogdor

@doppelgreener I do like the idea of people outside the game being drafted in

Especially with so many cards that do it differently

My favorite of those is the one that turns someone into your ally

Shalvenay

btw @Ben -- you think you just might be able to be on Discord?

Ben

@Shalvenay Now?

Shalvenay

@Ben now-ish :) looks like we have an off-chance of getting the whole party together again for continuing the dungeon run

Ben

1:14 AM

Unfortunately not. I'm only half-in at the moment.

And I don't have Discord on this PC

Shalvenay

ah. (there is the Discord web client, but yeah...want me to ping you here if everyone else becomes available, at least?)

Alphaeus

@Ben Discord has a web-version

OH wait

Shal did just say that

Alright.

Ben

Probably not sorry. I won't be able to focus regularly enough to have any decent input, and especially not during combat :(

Shalvenay

@Ben darn

@Alphaeus -- what editions of D&D do you play btw?

Alphaeus

I've played all of them, but I'd say over half of my experience is with 3.5e

Shalvenay

1:20 AM

@Alphaeus ah. I've played everything but 3e natively (although I know it via NWN) and 4e (tried, but couldn't get past char creation)

Alphaeus

I mean, I was raised on 2e mostly, but by the time I was a teen 3.0/3.5e was the rage, so essentially once I was old enough to be serious my Dad had gotten hooked on the newest edition, so that's what I got into as well

Shalvenay

ah. I'm mostly a 5e person as 3.5e has too many pointy bits sticking out for my taste :P

Alphaeus

LOL, I feel ya

I love pointy bits (refrained from joke there) because they give complexity. I do like 5e now and then because it's quite easy to whip things up

3.5e usually takes me a couple days to a week to get a char rolling if I'm joining a campaign (depending on complexity), and about two weeks to craft out a campaign if I'm DMing

Shalvenay

the problem with 3.5e's pointy bits is they tend to mesh rather poorly

I'd like 3.5e much more if the complexity wasn't so poorly thought out.

case in point: the stock Truenamer

Alphaeus

Hahaha

EVERYTHING about 3.5e meshes poorly

Fun point -- Ghosts/Sacred Watchers and Druids

Shalvenay

1:29 AM

@Alphaeus oh? tell me more :D

Alphaeus

Corrupted Wild Shape allows undead to WildShape

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus LOL

Alphaeus

(it's a feat)

Now, if you're just, say, a Vampire...that still makes sense

If your a lich, that makes sense

But Wildshaping doesn't change your type/subtype

Shalvenay

Corrupted Wild Shape + Exalted Wild Shape, hahaha

Alphaeus

So...let's say your a Sacred Watcher

You take Corrupted Wild Shape, but you can ALSO take Exalted Wild Shape (and even be a saint)

Actually, correction -- as a sacred watcher you don't even need corrupted wild shape

Because ECS decided undead weren't screwy enough and created Deathless, which are undead except they're not and they're holy.

So then you try to wildshape

Oh, wait, you don't change type/subtype

One of your subtypes is INCORPOREAL

Congats, ALL of your wildshapes are incorporeal

Shalvenay

1:32 AM

LOL. ghost blink dog. :D

@Alphaeus also, ECS?

Alphaeus

Now, you're a Forgotten Realms ghost, so every attack you have deals major con drain, 1d8 HP damage, 1d4 touch attack damage, and applies 2 negative levels. Then you wildshape into an Octopus Tree and have 10 attacks her turn. Congrats, you're draining over 60 CON and 20 negative levels per turn.

ECS = Eberron Campaign Setting

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus that's instagib for just about anything

Alphaeus

Yeah.

Ofc, you don't have to be a ghost to see druids as broken

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus I'm playing a druid atm in a 3.5e campaign...only at L2 atm, but s/b good once she gets to higher levels

Alphaeus

Wildshape into an Elder Viper tree, Cast Venomfire on yourself, and spend a few rounds prepping for battle by breaking off limbs. First round of battle you'll do over 1500 damage so long as they don't have acid immunity

Druids are without doubt the most ridiculous class in 3.5e

Shalvenay

1:38 AM

they are. name of druid handbook: "Doing Everything"

Alphaeus

and Planar Shepherd as a PrC turns ridiculous into "Your campaign is a joke"

Also, I freaking love Eggynack

BESW

I once took off on that concept by starting with a doppelganger, and using some poorly written PrCs to make the doppelganger's at-will shapeshifting qualify as wildshape.

Shalvenay

I'm not even bothering with Planar Shepherd because that'd break my DM in half

Alphaeus

Well, there are non-broken Planar Shepherds

That's why I want to write a handbook -- depending on the plane you choose, you get insane flavor but can stay at a normal power level

Shalvenay

but yeah. the party so far consists of a one-armed human fighter, a celestial drider monk (hugs), and my druidess (in all her 2.5' tall, black-skinned, Chultan-strongheart-hin, Kossuthite glory ;)

Alphaeus

1:41 AM

Granted, ofc, there are still planes like The Abyss and Xoriat that laugh in the face of DMs

Anyhow, yeah

You could still do Planar Shepherd, feasibly, just attune to a "weaker" plane

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus Xoriat?

BESW

By the end of the day I had a character who could turn into literally any creature type as a free action as many times per turn/round/day as it wanted. Each shapechange it could absorb any worn or carried items... or re-shape them to fit the new form. So complete costume changes were a free action too, because so long as I never returned to my original form I could just keep an infinite amount of gear absorbed and only let out what I wanted.

Alphaeus

@Shalvenay Realm of Madness. Totally Borked because of a ridiculously powerful set of traits (and therefore Planar Bubble), Daelkyr (which are really good), and being the home of all Psuedonatural Creatures. Pseudonatural is a template that can be applied to Any corporeal being meaning that take any being you want, slap a Pseudonatural template on there, and voila you can use that wildshape

BESW

...I retired that character because it was making the rest of the party feel unneeded.

Alphaeus

Yeah, that's a real problem

Shalvenay

1:44 AM

yeah, it's one of the concerns with my druidess actually

BESW

My next character was an invisible, inaudible, intangible bard.

Alphaeus

Don't forget because of Monster Manual 5 you can get casting from your forms, which means that PlanShep also lets you access full Bard, Sorcerer, Cleric, and Wizard casting.

Shalvenay

that she'll overshadow esp. the fighter. the monk's fun because she's the party stealth master and can get around all sorts of crazy ways

Alphaeus

Yeah, Druids are better fighters than fighters

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus yikes!!!!

Alphaeus

1:45 AM

Oh, even more fun.

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus fighters do not have 60' reach weapons at their disposal

Alphaeus

Wildshape into an Inmoth and cast ANY you know (or from the sorcerer list) as a free action

Any spells you don't use can then be stored for the next day, still castable as free actions

Shalvenay

and btw -- the party's all mercs xD with any other DM than the one I have, I'd really expect the NPCs to be wondering what is wrong with the druid that she hired on with a merc band....

Alphaeus

Eh, idk

I've played all sorts of druids

Shalvenay

(long story short: she got to the land they are in by hiring on as a sailor. when she got off, the port city spat in her face six ways 'til sunday until she finally managed to slip outside the town walls)

Alphaeus

1:49 AM

A favorite is the druid who is obsessed with the cycle of life so he kills people to see how the other side of the cycle works

(also lol)

Another favorite is the druid that considers people the greatest animals and therefore the most worthy of study (charisma druid)

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus xD. I <3 fire-druids myself

Alphaeus

Haha, so true

I wish Blighters had better flavor, I'll say that

Sorry

Better power

They have great flavor, but their spell list is kinda bleh

Well, I'll probably brb

Show's coming on, so I'll switch to my laptop

Shalvenay

it'll be interesting if my vision for the character comes true fully, where she returns to the city that treated her like dirt and basically takes the place over, cleaning up the mess of palm-schmoo that was gunking up the works there

Alphaeus

^^Also, to take over cities -- just memorize the Blizzard spell for all of your 5th lvl slots.

Then use any number of spells to melt the snow

(after everyone is dead, that is)

Or use Summon Nature's Ally 5 on Oreads...which have earthquake as an SLA

Shalvenay

yeah, or just sic a Siabrie on the place. superpowered elemental swarm, go.

Alphaeus

1:53 AM

Or use lvl 6 Sandstorm a few times, and then to clean up the sand just spam-cast Animate Sand to get permanent Huge Sand Cohorts.

Shalvenay

hahaha :D

Alphaeus

There is just so much cheese possible with druids.

I'd say they are the most detail-rich class, largely because their abilities canvas literally everything in DnD

Anyhoo, brb

Shalvenay

yup

BESW

In D&D 3.5, flexibility of choice is roughly equivalent to agency.

Alphaeus

(if you want any 3.5e Druid advice, I'll be happy to answer at any time, btw)

back

Anyhow, yeah, for your campaign your goal is to tone down your druid-ish a bit

BESW

2:05 AM

Fastest easiest way to simplify and depower a class is to hit it with VoP.

For a druid, there's also the monk variant option if you need to pull its teeth.

Both keep the character fun and interesting but dramatically reduce its choice spread.

Alphaeus

VoP actually empoweres Druids, though

Because all of the boosts gained by VoP stack with wildshape, in which you don't really need items anyway

BESW

Since you think item choice is a key component to bringing martial classes toward caster tiers, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Alphaeus

So VoP is like auto-wilding magical boosters, without the gold cost

BESW

There's a fundamental conflict in our respective understanding of the role of items in the 3.5 power dynamic.

Alphaeus

Well, Items are always > than VoP in a universal environment.

That said, the only class in which VoP is equal to items is Druid, because Items aren't always useful anyway

BESW

2:09 AM

Druids are less hampered by VoP than many other classes, but it's not an equivalent replacement for items, much less a boost.

Simply put, it's a restriction of choices and choices are power.

Alphaeus

Right.

That said, the more restricted your options, the better VoP compares

BESW

Anyway, it's not an argument I'm interested in.

Alphaeus

Understood.

BESW

I'm looking at Diaspora's system link mapping structure and thinking about using it for other kinds of maps.

Alphaeus

Although the funniest way to use VoP to boost your party is to have a corrupt Cleric/Cleric of some Chaotic god in your party, donate all of your gold to them per the feat as a representative of a religious faction, and then they take it and give it to the party members that they deem "needy"

Shalvenay

2:13 AM

@Alphaeus lulz :P

BESW

Interstellar maps are a dramatic break from the five room dungeon thinking I'm used to.

Alphaeus

Quite

I love doing non-standard maps

Actually, tbh, I rarely use standard maps at all

Shalvenay

speaking of clerics and donations. I was playing a Corellonite cleric in a 3.5e campaign a whiles back, and the party (in a wagon btw) came upon a bridge guarded by an ogre. toll was one silver piece for a wagon. the rest of the party mulled it over for a bit while my character kept silent, then she, rather out of the blue, pulls a gold piece out of her purse and flips it to the ogre to the tune of "Throw the change in the bridge repair fund"

BESW

They're more interconnected than your typical five-room layout, and provide more interesting strategy at whatever level you're mapping.

Shalvenay

@BESW no doubt. dynamic interstellar mapping in the style of EVE wormhole space is quite the challenge xD

(i.e. you wake up to new next door neighbors every morning ;)

BESW

2:16 AM

Diaspora maps look like this:

Each dot is a system. Each system is connected to between one and three other systems.

Alphaeus

Cool

BESW

There's a way to determine connections randomly with 4dF (negative is "connect to next in line," zero is "like minus AND next unconnected after that," positive is "like zero AND next unconnected after that").

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus did you catch my re: clerics and donations btw?

Alphaeus

@Shalvenay yes....which is kinda off for a Corellonite cleric

but hey, anything goes....

BESW

This kind of map automatically creates choke points, dead ends, trade hubs, backwaters, whatever those mean in an interstellar map or a map of a dungeon or a character relationship map.

For representation of spatial relationships, it's obviously abstracted, but that can be a benefit.

Shalvenay

2:21 AM

@Alphaeus her reasoning was that this was a strategically important bridge that was getting wailed on by some spiderpeople over and over, so she wanted to make sure the ogre could keep it up since she wouldn't be around to

Alphaeus

Ahhhhhh that makes sense

Excusable

BESW

Rob Donoghue notes that using interstellar mapping for dungeon maps forces him to put more work into engaging descriptions.

And that it's especially useful for non-dungeon-dungeons.

I'm wondering if it might be able to help me plot Cthulhu Confidential games.

Alphaeus

@BESW my players are coming up to a dungeon that consists of massive free-floating rooms that are constantly shuffling and have relative gravity meaning travel isn't always intuitive.

I'm really looking forward to this.

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus xD

BESW

I've done that a few different ways.

Shalvenay

2:23 AM

how do you get from room to room btw?

BESW

I think my favorite was just a single cubic room in a dungeon which turned so a random face was "down" at the end of each round.

(Roll for falling damage and if you're going to land prone and/or shaken.)

That was the same campaign where the final adventure culminated in a confrontation with a reality-breaking invasion from the Far Realm, and so the entire campaign from the very beginning featured little breaks in reality. Time skips, space warping, etc.

All centered on the party who would be there at the final confrontation, and slowly escalating as they got closer (in time and space) to the originating point of the shattering.

So we had a number of moments where multiple times or locations would be overlapping and the PCs would be shifting between them.

Alphaeus

So, “The Grand Hall” – An infinite space full of floating rooms with relative directional gravity. All of these rooms are made of glass-like material, so you can see which way the room is facing at all times based upon the furnishings inside. To travel, you have to open windows and “jump” between rooms.

Flying creatures have to work to orient themselves to be able to still fly as gravity shifts and warps between rooms. Alternate means of travel is opening doors, but these lead to rooms at random, not necessarily in the right direction. This would be a simple puzzle-trap, but they are being pursued by every-increasing numbers of enemies.

The whole "Gatehouse" itself consists of mind-bending connections.

Walk through a door and you find yourself coming back through the same door.

Wall into a room of mirrors and your reflections are living and attack you.

Walk through a door and randomly enter another plane, to which the "exit" of the room is another random door (the players do have a guidance mechanism)

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus hahaha, reminds me of wormhole space in EVE

Alphaeus

lol

Well, even worse, time isn't consistent, and they can change history

So if they enter a future scenario, the way to defeat it might be to backtrack to one of the past scenarios and take actions that alter their encounter in the future, go back and then try again

One player is the 9x great-grandmother of one of the other players as it is

BESW

2:41 AM

I'm reminded of when we found an Atlantean generation ship, and it was compatible with USB and Linux because Doctor Light had been lost in time and space off-screen for most of the previous adventure.

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus lulz

BESW

Also I've been toying with a Sarah Connor Chronicles campaign concept which would have some similar elements.

trogdor

@BESW I still love that we did this

BESW

It was a glorious adventure all around.

trogdor

I feel like that game was the best long form game we ever played

If only because we had so many things just happen and become big deals later

And considering Dr Light was a huge part of most of it, I could of course be biased

BESW

2:57 AM

It was definitely one of the highlights of my RPG experience to date.

And yeah, Doctor Light was fun to mess with, and easy because you were the most reliably present player.

Not the first time I've hung the campaign's plot on a particular PC just because that was the PC I knew would be present for every session.

...not the first time it's been your PC.

trogdor

Lol

I am way too into geek night and usually don't have an excuse anyway :P

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus -- you still about?

Alphaeus

Yeah, I am

Wassup? @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

so, if you haven't noticed...I have a couple strong streaks in my worldbuilding -- one of them is to "normalize the supernatural", if you will, and the other is to make things that appear monstrous but don't behave that way

Alphaeus

Right

I like both of those

Shalvenay

3:12 AM

yeah, I kinda noticed :) and the folks I play with atm tend to appreciate those as well (<3 the fluffy celestial drider -- she'll even give you driderback rides xD)

but it's one of those things that makes me trepidatious about seeking out new groups and environments

as I have a sneaking suspicion that we're in the minority re: liking our monstrous things humanized from a behavior standpoint

Alphaeus

Oh, yeah, I feel yea.

One of my druids as a Horrid Octopus (Giant Octopus + Dire + Horrid) with fiendish grafted wings, trained as a warbeast, and special collar that, among other things, grants air-breathing. So he's a Huge gnarled acidic fiendish flying writhing mass of death. Druid calls him Mr. Squiggles, Squiggy, or Ole' Squig. The collar also has the Shrink quality, so he can drop him down to small size, and snuggles with him at night.

:P

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus snuggle-squiggy sounds kinda fun xD. it's the kind of thing I'd do if I was doing a water-elf or something like that for an aquatic campaign

my druidess has a wardog for now -- some sort of unspecified wolfdog hybrid xD

Alphaeus

lol, well, he's air-breathing and flying, so I figured it would work for a land-based campaign too

Shalvenay

aye.

Alphaeus

But yeah, I like messing with traditional perceptions

Shalvenay

3:23 AM

if you want, I have a couple of short-form dungeons you can try your hand at sometime :)

Alphaeus

Hey, I'd be game for that.

I mean, I'd probably say I'll have to push this back past the holiday era since I'm super crammed right now, but otherwise I'd love to take you up on that

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus cool. just let me know when a good time is. we can play off in the Back Room or on Discord

(or on Roll20 for that matter)

Alphaeus

KK, sounds good man. I'd also be willing to return the favor as well.

Hell, might try my hand at running a full modular campaign here some time

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus yeah, I'd be happy to see what you come up with for a short-form dungeon sometime :)

Alphaeus

>:}

evil laughter fades into distance

Tfw a DM randomly chooses your char to be drug from the cell to an isolated room instead of anyone else.

'~'

Ben

3:35 AM

@miniman so what do you think would work as a rule for the Bucher's "hook" ability?

I haven't really seen anything else like it so far

Miniman

@Ben I'd keep it pretty simple - shoots in a line, first person in the line makes a Dex saving throw or takes damage and is dragged to the Butcher.

BESW

> Hook, line, and sinker. You can use an overcome action with Attack to bring a target into your zone, applying the usual rules for moving through zones with overcome actions.

Ben

"Moving through zones"... would it be overkill for the floor in the Butcher's room to burst into flame like in D3? Haha

Shalvenay

hey again @Asteria

Asteria

Hay hay @Shalvenay

Miniman

3:39 AM

@Ben Probably - also, it doesn't really make any sense thematically.

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Ben

Lol

Shalvenay

one more thing I've done that'd upset the traditionalists btw @Alphaeus -- I have a char who's slated to become a Paladin/Warlock combination in a couple levels, although they are shelved atm

Miniman

@Ben You know whatI mean, right? Like, the Butcher is a butcher, and his abilities should reflect that. Making him fire-based in D3 was just weird.

Asteria

Gooooood. Bored at work so I'm making cute little prompt cards for this weekends rp. you?

Ben

3:41 AM

@Miniman Oh yeah, I know what you mean :)

That's why I chose Physical resistance rather than fire

Alphaeus

@Shalvenay Woo!! Nice. Most non-traditional class combo I've done the build I've been doing recently -- The Holy Ghost.

Ben

He's a raging bloodthirsty beast

Alphaeus

Exalted Druid Saint....ghost.

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus yeah, Paladin/Warlock works way better in 5e than 3.5e

@Alphaeus xD I like it! a bit Casperesque ;)

Alphaeus

@Shalvenay Actually, you know what? If some of those dungeons of yours can handle a powerful char around lvl 15, that's the build I'll use in em probably

Ben

3:43 AM

"As you look around at the [previously dictated gory] scene, amidst the soft clinking of chains, you hear a chain dragging across the floor, followed by a low growl, and heavy, thudding footsteps. Out of the darkness, a huge hulking beast emerges, carrying a huge hook on a chain, and a massive cleaver!"

Miniman

@Ben Nice!

Alphaeus

@Ben Don't bring my mother into this....

Ben

Roll initiative!!

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus I have one 3.5e shortform dungeon, and while you'd probably steamroll the combat part of it at L15, it'd be interesting seeing how your char reacts to some of the more environmental aspects of the dungeon

Ben

@Alphaeus lol

Alphaeus

3:45 AM

Well, anyhow, I'm off now

Cya mates

Shalvenay

@Alphaeus cya

Ben

This boss would likely inflict the Bloodthirst Corruption (I mean, obviously).

I still need to write that down though. I know at what stages the corruption starts to take hold - depending on which type, it's 1/4 then 1/2 then equal to the appropriate stat(s)

However I'm not sure of the effects

Shalvenay

@Asteria not much. what do you have planned for RP this weekend?

Asteria

@Shalvenay running a once-off sci-fi freeform, so nothing too exciting

Ben

Ohh... perhaps I could make a "cinematic" entrance to the fight... "the beast roars, and flings the hook out at (PC) - make a dex save!"

(Then fudge the save in favour of the PC)

Then everyone rolls initiative

Shalvenay

3:51 AM

@Asteria oh? what sort of sci-fi theme? and maybe we can talk freeform in the NAB sometime if you don't mind?

Ben

@BESW do you remember discussing the corruption stats with me? There was STR/CON for Bloodthirst, INT/CHA for madness, and DEX/WIS for necrotic?

BESW

Nov 22 at 23:49, by BESW

Wis/Int for Madness, Dex/Con for Necrotic, Str/Cha for Bloodlust.

Asteria

@Shalvenay Resources on earth are running out, PC's are ordinary people that were selected by lottery to partake in a 200 year journey to a new world...then shenanigans happen! And sure!

Ben

Almost had it haha. Thx

Miniman

@Ben If you're going to do that, I strongly recommend the hook flying out of the darkness.

Shalvenay

3:54 AM

@Asteria ah, not my style, but seems like you folks should have fun with it :). and when would be a good time for us to talk?

Miniman

Because a) I think it's more cinematic, and b) you're less likely to get into an argument about the surprise rules.

Shalvenay

@Miniman aye, the hook flying out of the darkness would be a good one

Ben

@Miniman Ohhhh.... yes I like that

Then followed by the chain slowly dragging back across the floor, followed by the emergence of the Butcher!

Ohhh... I just got chills! Hahaha

Asteria

@Shalvenay Whenev Bev. I'll be around (maybe a bit on and off) for the next 2 or so hours

Shalvenay

@Asteria should be around for the next hour, so to the NAB?

Miniman

3:56 AM

@Ben It's very Dark Souls-esque, actually.

Ben

Yes, that is true haha

Asteria

@Shalvenay dramatic batman traveling music

Ben

Sort of Manus-y

[snort] Manus the Menace

Hahahaha

Shalvenay

4:10 AM

the hook flies out of the darkness, only for the party druid to grab it in her mouth as she shapeshifts into a mercurial, draconic form and begins to take wing...

Ben

Stage 1 corruption:
Bloodlust - The smell doesn't seem so bad anymore. You kinda like the thickness in the air. It gets your blood pumping. You really want to fight... punch... just... break something.

Necrotic - Your breath seems to rattle in your chest. The cold doesn't bite into you as much, and while you don't feel tired, you definitely feel like you would be ok just, standing still. Also, has your knee always had that creak in it?

Madness - You never really did feel comfortable down here, but now you're pretty sure you're being watched. Yes. Definitely being watched. And laughed at...

@Shalvenay This is 5e, not 3.5 lol

Shalvenay

@Ben heheh :P it just put the imagery in my mind, that's all

Ben

Lol

While that would also be cool - these guys are only meant to be level 2

Shalvenay

the draconic form begins to climb out from what looks in all the world like an ersatz Fulton recovery, the Butcher dangling helplessly from his own chain now

several minutes later, as the beast breaks the 25,000' mark, it pushes over into a hard dive, seemingly floating the Butcher in a brief moment of weightlessness, then yanks its entire body back and snaps its tail over while dipping a wing, hurling itself into a combination of half snap roll and wickedly fast, flat spin, completing a full rotation every second as she channels a bit of her inner Spencer Suderman...

Ben

The butcher, driven by it's desire to rend and maim, has already climbed the chain and closed the gap, and has decided that it wants dragon wings for dinner, as it buries the cleaver in the spine of the Druid

Shalvenay

4:26 AM

the butcher winds up permanently attached to a dragon-shaped lawn dart at this point that proceeds to hit the ground at supersonic speed, burying them both in a crater

Ben

Would it be too much to throw in a "resist maiming a fellow PC" check?

Shalvenay

@Ben hahaha. physics takes 20 on that, every time.

Ben

Sorry that was a bit left-wing. I'm trying to figure out some of the ways to show the corruption, and for bloodlust it's definitely a case of "You want to punch something. A lot"

What is there to punch? That weedy looking Sorcerer looks like he might make some really nice crunching sounds...

The more I think about it... the more "Bloodlust" is sounding like an addiction

Shalvenay

hahah xD

@Ben ah, then I think that'd be a good one, yes :D

although I do wonder just how terrifying it'd be to be exposed, in the air, being hurled around by something spinning at 360deg/s while falling out of the sky like some sort of carnival ride from hell

Ben

5:14 AM

Here's a thought - 3 versions of diablo, based on the type of corruption the PC is under.

Ben

5:30 AM

Also @BESW (and anyone else), since the corruption is based on dual stats, would you say that as the corruption grows, one stat gains a buff, the other a debuff? For example, necrotic would buff con - because you're more resistant to things like cold or poison, say. And Madness would decrease your INT - giving hallucinations and such, but give you an innate sense of the dungeon you're in? Like, the voices are starting become clearer, telling you things bout the environment

BESW

No, the point of a dual-stat choice is to mitigate unintended extremes in execution. Use the PC's higher stat in each pair for all effects relating to that pair.

The idea of a buff/debuff balance is good, but don't key it off both stats in the pair.

Ben

@BESW Ok so you're saying the Thief vs the Barb - if the first gets Necrotic, focus on the Dex being the primary stat, and the Barb has the Con as the primary stat?

Perhaps if you could give an example of what you mean?

BESW

Right. That way they both go through the experience at roughly the same rate.

Ben

Right

BESW

Adjust the narrative to fit the higher stat, but don't change the mechanics of it depending on which stat it is.

Eg, taking penalties to Dex might be losing flexibility and motor control as your body deteriorates, while penalties to Con would be losing endurance and stamina.

Ben

5:36 AM

So how would the buff/debuff work off 1 stat?

BESW

I'd go back to our previous discussions for that one.

Try idea of a penalty to a set of skills that would be compromised by the infection, and a commensurate bonus to skills which are improved by it.

Ben

Right, so Acrobatics, and Con saves (debuff/buff) as an example?

or saves vs cold/poison

BESW

Yeah. I'd be inclined to keep it as narrative-driven as possible, but D&D doesn't like that as much.

Ben

Actually I should correct myself - I started by saying that it affected your stats - whereas I had stated in my notes "relevant skills" instead.

So your INT doesn't drop from 13 to 12, the DC of any INT-based checks increases by 1

So I think that's closer to what you are suggesting

lockpicking goes from DC14 to DC15, because your wrists don't move as smoothly anymore- they sort of click and grind

Busting down the door for someone with bloodlust is easier however - you revel in the chance to destroy something. Goes from a DC15 to a DC14

BESW

5:55 AM

Sounds good to me.

Ben

That way there's minimal bookkeeping (your favourite thing) and it can still be kept "hidden" from the players

BESW

Aye.

Ben

Should I go with 3 or 4 stages of corruption?

purely in terms of the buff-debuff system

cap at +-3 or +-4

The PCs will be at level 6 by the end

BESW

That I don't know, because I'm not familiar enough with the 5e maths.

Ben

Fair

BESW

6:03 AM

It'd be very easy, though, to use a Cthulhu Dark progression with a d6 and just halve the score for the modifier.

...but nothing would make using a d8 for it any worse, I think.

19th century Steam-powered elevator, St. Petersburg, Russia

Tweeted by HousesVictorian on December 3, 2017 at 9:30 PM

BESW

7:11 AM

Standard unit of elves: the scoop. One scoop = 30 elves (workshop variety).

trogdor

lol

BESW

If you don't have workshop elves, garden gnomes (with hat) can be substituted, but wash them gently first.

trogdor

7:58 AM

what if all I have is unwashed gnomes that fell off a truck, and I am on a deadline?

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