TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:00

hmm. [scribbles notes]

Ben

So from lowest to highest I'd say: player choices; taking damage; using cursed items

I'm terrible at being a Gm if only for my complete ignorance of the math.

BESW

I'm not familiar with 5e so I'm going to get terms wrong.

Ben

I'm fine at math; I can do it, and I understand that GMing requires a lot of it to make it all balanced... but I hate math so much! Haha

I was also thinking perhaps as the corruption grows, it's also harder to accrue.

I hope that doesn't put a spanner in your works

BESW

The hardest thing is getting into a D&D-esque mindset and using its mechanical precedents.

Ben

@BESW Perhaps I can assist?

BESW

00:06

I've got a couple of concepts.

One is to treat each type of corruption as an ability of its own, meaning that it's got a modifier.

Ben

@BESW Ok.

I think maybe that was the style I was perhaps going to work with...

BESW

Like, if you have 14 Madness, you've got a Madness modifier of +3, which you can add to things when you're acting mad and which is added to difficulties when you're trying to stay sane.

Ben

But I've been wrong before

@BESW Riiight ok

That's good

BESW

Another concept is to make a save each time you gain corruption (maybe one roll for each at the end of a scene) and if you fail it then you have to act out a mild form of that particular corruption's theme in your next scene.

But with the idea of making it harder to increase as you have more of it... well, there's a great mechanic for that but it's very much not a D&D mechanic.

Roll over your corruption score or you don't gain more corruption.

Alternately...

Use your corruption modifiers as armor against new corruption.

Ben

@BESW Yeah, I was thinking that... Like a DC10 check, then lower that by your "corruption mod"

BESW

00:10

Say, when there's a roll which would determine if you gain more corruption (like an attack or a save), you add your score in that kind of corruption to your side of the roll.

Ben

So if you're at +2 Corruption, it's a DC8

BESW

That'd mean that actions of your own choice don't get protection from your existing score, but corruption imposed on you by outside forces has to first break through your existing corruption.

Ben

On a side note - I was thinking that when affected by one type of corruption, a PC will immediately gain immunity to the others?

Or would you say that would only happen once you pass the first "stage" of corruption?

BESW

00:26

That depends on the purpose of the corruption in the narrative.

I might just have a generic "corruption" damage type, and the first time it's inflicted on a PC, that character's player gets to decide which kind of corruption it is.

Ben

@BESW Aesthetic primarily, but the person with the most corruption at the end of the game will be the one that gets the prize

BESW

Then all corruption inflicted on that PC is corruption of that particular type.

Ben

And I was thinking that Corruption will also give the player a minor boon as well as the deficits

BESW

Basically, corruption manifests differently depending on who it's infecting.

Ben

Right ok

BESW

00:28

@Ben Again, the "represented as an ability" concept would make that easy.

Perhaps... You can use your corruption modifier in place of an ability modifier for attacks, damage, and [list of skills related to the chosen corruption's theme].

Until the very highest levels of corruption that won't replace their primary stats, but it'll make them more competent in areas related to their corruption.

Ben

So, for example bloodlust might add a +1/+2 etc to attack damage?

but a negative to ac?

BESW

No, it's a voluntary and only beneficial replacement of ability modifiers.

Corruption already has enough drawbacks, what with losing control of your character.

Miniman

00:45

@BESW This might be a good time to whip out your cursed thief example.

Ben

Well... I want the corruption system to be for my eyes only. The players will start to see the effects, but they will be unaware of any kind of "corruption" taking hold (other than physical attributes)

For example, necrotic corruption will make the PC look older and harrowed, Bloodlust will probably have the opposite effect, and Madness will actually start to play tricks on the PC

And by extension... the player

BESW

> ZEHIR'S GREED: a curse on tomb robbers.
- You gain training in Bluff, Stealth, and Thievery. When you use one of these skills, you gain a cumulative +1 bonus to Bluff, Stealth, and Thievery, and a cumulative -1 penalty to all other skills.
- You can use the Greedy Hands encounter power a number of times per encounter equal to the current "stage" of the curse.
- At the end of every extended rest, make a Constitution check. You may choose to fail this check.
-- 20 or lower: The stage of the curse increases by one.

trogdor

that curse lasted a looooong time XD

BESW

I wouldn't do that particular thing again if I had it to do over, but it's a great example of making corruption a real temptation.

(Greedy Hands was an attack that dealt damage based on the curse's stage, and produced a gem of commensurate value.)

trogdor

01:00

you made it waaaaay tooo tempting

it was hilarious but also sad

BESW

It was... very much tailored for that particular player.

trogdor

yeah

he fell right into that curse

that was what was a little sad about it, in retrospect

BESW

And I had no problem with wrecking the party's gold economy in that campaign.

trogdor

at the time it was only hilarious because I was an idiot in hindsight

Ben

The idea behind my corruption is that the PCs are effectively walking into the depths of hell. You can't do that without accruing some negative effects

SmokeDetector

01:04

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Are the cleric and druid spell lists separate for purely thematic reasons, or due to other balancing factors in the class designs? by Debbie Kladke on rpg.SE

BESW

@Ben Then maybe a simpler mechanic would be better?

What about an escalation die?

Ben

Go on?

BESW

In 13th Age, you put out a d6 on the table at the start of a conflict, with the 1 facing up. Each round you advance it by one. Some abilities can change it, too. PCs get a bonus to their attacks equal to the current face of the die, and some abilities key off it.

How about expanding that out into an "effects of hell" escalation die? Say, a d10. Start at 1. Actions that are hellish get to add the number, actions that are heavenly have it subtracted.

Advance the die as seems appropriate--each session, each scene, each time the party makes particular kinds of choices, whatever.

Ben

OK

BESW

The deeper you go into hell, the easier it is to be hellish and the harder it is to be heavenly. Bam.

Adjust the size of the die and the speed of the escalation according to your own vision of the game.

Maybe include the potential to reduce the escalation through certain actions as well.

Ben

01:13

Honestly I think I might be missing something - because this just seems like another wway to do the same thing

BESW

It's simpler.

You've got this massively complex bookkeeping going on which the players aren't actually engaging with because you want it to be a secret.

That means it's effort without effect.

I thought it was player-facing when I was coming up with ideas for you, but as a GM-facing system it's just needless work.

Ben

Ok so its a simpler way to do the same thing?

BESW

For a fraction of the effort you can get roughly the same effect on the player experience with something like an escalation die.

Ben

Ok.

I'm grasping the idea of it, but unfortunately I have issues understanding things without some kind of experience/analogy

So, my understanding of the system is:

Player accrues corruption - I use the "escalation die" to track this.

Once it reaches a certain point (5, 10, whatever), "things" start happening that affect the player.

Ben

01:32

Is that accurate?

BESW

Not quite my vision of it, but if it works for you that's what's important.

I think there are elements of the concept you're attached to that I don't understand, or don't value.

Like, if the narrative of the concept is that going deeper into Hell causes negative effects, I'm not sure there's any real gain in tracking those effects separately for each PC. Why not have a kind of global "hell influence" meter?

That is, one escalation die for the whole party.

But then you said something about "the person with the most corruption at the end of the game will be the one that gets the prize," which indicates there's some element of the story I don't know about.

Ben

I need the individual counters because that determines who gets the prize at the end of the game. Only one can win...

[Spoiler alert... the prize isn't actually a good thing]

But it is plot-relevant

The different kinds of corruption just add flavour to the game

BESW

02:11

....How about a Cthulhu Dark style corruption die?

Ben

I have not played Cthulhu Dark

BESW

Your corruption starts at one. Add it to hellish actions, subtract it from heavenly actions. Every time you might gain corruption, roll 1d6. Gain 1 corruption if the result is over your current corruption score.

Each PC has their own score.

It's not very D&D-esque, but since it's not player-facing that's not super important.

That also bakes in your "corruption slows down as it gets further along" goal.

Ben

That can work

BESW

If you want the numbers to go higher, either switch out the die or set aside the first 6 and start again.

But in my experience, it takes a couple hours of rolling pretty regularly to hit 6 in this system. So if you're only rolling a handful of times each session... should last a few sessions.

(And since you're not showing the players your work, you can always fudge it partway through.)

Ben

Mmm.... fudge

I think that'd be the easiest way to manage it'

BESW

02:39

Gemini: Your conspiracy theories will gain new attention when giant mutant sewer wombats are discovered beneath Cincinnati.

Tweeted by sblackmoore on November 22, 2017 at 3:01 PM

trogdor

02:53

lol

fantastic news

then my conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with that will gain new attention when that happens too right?

Asteria

03:25

@BESW ...wat

Asteria

03:48

any poor unfortunate souls in here wanna read a boring 3 page character backstory? I want to make sure it's readable / understandable before I send it to my GM

KorvinStarmast

@BESW I thought that went without saying. (Your conspiracy theories will gain new attention when giant mutant sewer wombats are discovered beneath Cincinnati.)

@Asteria I'll be happy to. Where is it?

@Asteria Would you like suggestions or edits?

Asteria

@KorvinStarmast thank you for being an unfortunate victim. I've just done it in a google doc.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AO3WML9uFBPxhCZhPrnIHqyqyWO311spdTPlP7gdZa8/edit?usp=sharing
Suggestions would be good, I'm trying to build her a certain way but I don't know if my intent is getting across

KorvinStarmast

OK, I'll take a look. :)

Asteria

the first two pages are just GM stuff though, so you can skip that. thanks in advance <3

KorvinStarmast

04:04

I am not sure how failed politician who ran through money is still wealthy for the later part of the story ... somehow seems a mismatch. (I understand the theme, though, of Kristov's constant efforts "back into the inner circle?" that was why he used her so ...)

Asteria

ah yeah, this is why I wanted it checked :P he's built his wealth back up using the flesh he sold and later on, selling the secrets she found and stuff. I'll have another go at conveying it though. thanks!

KorvinStarmast

OK, he deals in secrets and blackmail. Maybe make that a little clearer? And yeah, it fits well.

Interesting and dark. Which game?

Asteria

Blades in the dark

KorvinStarmast

Hmm, when she was 16, no longer tender flesh, "10 years" to put the plan together but she takes him out at age 22. Math error, or missing something about when her debut at the parties happened... at 12?

Asteria

woop, math error. numbers are hard

KorvinStarmast

04:11

no worries, this is why we get a second set of eyes.

playing with the dead before him.

near the end

I think you meant "playing with the dead body before him" in that sentence?

Maybe that murder was for a longer sentence (described as very horrific) so maybe "after 5 years she made her escape ...." fits with her growing in talent/power?

Asteria

I diiiid, but I've changed it to "relishing in the brutality he wrought" instead

KorvinStarmast

Based on the back story, I'd say her deception, charm, and persuasion would be put to work for 5 years to set up a jail break/escape. Based on how you built the narrative.

Just an idea, unless "you've served your sentence, off you go" is part of how the game story begins

Asteria

ah, the setting for the game is "Due to the mass of crimes that year, every criminal was sentenced to 5 years in the most brutal prison, regardless of crime"
The PC's are approached after being let out about getting their "revenge"

KorvinStarmast

Oh, cool, then never mind. Fits well then.

Asteria

One of the players said his PC is going to jail for 5 years for littering, so it's interesting

trogdor

04:15

jeez that is even darker than I thought blades in the dark,.... was

KorvinStarmast

One of the players said his PC is going to jail for 5 years for littering That's what Arlo Guthrie told the murderers in "Alice's Restaurant." 8^D

Asteria

@trogdor I always play good, nice characters (and my group is used to me playing nice), so this time I'm trying to go waaaay dark

trogdor

everything together, not just the litering and getting 5 years for it

KorvinStarmast

Top to bottom, I think it flows well enough. Best wishes with the game.

Asteria

I'm looking forward to seeing peoples face when my PC pretends to be nice the whole time ends up staby stabing

KorvinStarmast

04:17

Muahahahahaha!

trogdor

@Asteria fair enough, I played exactly one campaign as an evil character, and even then he refused to personally kill unarmed civilians

he didn't Stop the other PC but I still didn't have any inclination to go that way with it

KorvinStarmast

Night to all, have to fix stuff in the morning before the grand turkey debacle ...

Asteria

thanks for the feedback @KorvinStarmast , I can definitely see room for improvement now that you've pointed it out

trogdor

XD

Asteria

sleep wellll

@trogdor my PC would stab someone in a heart beat if she could gain from it...though, no children. she has daddy issues :p

trogdor

04:19

yeah that is too far, is it because the setting is really dark or just because you wanted to try this?

because maybe I should re-consider wanting to try Blades in the Dark if it is the first one

Asteria

a bit of both, we're playing assassins so I could have gone noble and stuff. But i've always wanted to try dark

trogdor

that is fair

I have not tried since that one time, but I don't know that a,.... morally deficient character is my style at all

it could be that I just don't give it any chances though

oh! yeah Great Ork Gods yeah nevermind

Asteria

mhm, same. I'm not sure how I'll go playing her, but it can't hurt to try

xD

trogdor

I forgot, all my Orks were horrible horrible monsters

so maybe the setting and the group's mood and inclination has more to do with it for me

Miniman

@trogdor I'm not sure it counts as a morally deficient character when you're playing a game where morals don't enter into it at all.

trogdor

04:24

@Miniman but, like,... I think it probably does?

it was still me playing those orks

that was the thought process

if you want to make it about "in comparison to everyone else playing" then yeah there is nothing to say XD

if an ork is not a horrible person in that game, the other orks will kill them

it's actually incouraged

even rewarded XD

Asteria

in comparison to the other PC's, at least mine pretends to be nice...

trogdor

if you kill another ork you get oog and all orks want oog

@Asteria always important, how else can you stab them in the back later?

Asteria

@trogdor exactly!

BESW

@Miniman Stories always reflect on reality; Thermian defenses about internal morality don't really hold together very well against out-of-story arguments.

trogdor

I figured

I think I might know what it is for me actually

in Great Ork Gods I don't care about the ork

Asteria

04:33

oh?

trogdor

the ork can be horrible and also die horribly

and then I make another one and I don't care about the ork

BESW

GOG Orks are designed narratively to be acceptable targets, and mechanically to have no sunk costs and be imminently replaceable.

trogdor

I think in most other games I care about the character too much to let them be a horribly mal-adjusted person

Miniman

@BESW I'm not trying to say his ork was actually a fine upstanding citizen. Just that, from the POV of whether he's tried playing a morally deficient character, it might not really count. Like, if I say I've tried Fate, that's technically true. But I haven't really had the Fate experience, or faced the challenges of playing a Fate game, and so on.

I wouldn't say that I've really tried Fate, even though I have played it.

trogdor

@Miniman ah I think I understand what you mean

it compares well to the thought I just had above ^

in any case, that is the theory

Miniman

04:37

@trogdor Yeah, it's not really something I'd thought about before now. But while I've played some characters who were real monsters, it's never been in a context where that...I dunno, meant anything, I guess?

trogdor

because other than Great Ork Gods I can't think of any time other than that one 3.5 evil campaign we had where I played an evil character

@Miniman I do think it matters to an extent for our thought processes on it at least

BESW

07:08

I know that if I were to talk about characters across many games and settings being "morally deficient" or not, it would be relative to my real-world sense of morality rather than judged on the diegetic morality of each setting or game--in large part because the point of playing games with divergent moralities from our own IS that conflict between the player's morality and the character's.

> It goes ding! when there's stuff. You have a detector. Once per adventure you can adjust it to find a very specific thing: a person, a substance, a frequency, whatever you like so long as your character knows something about the thing that will help with the tuning. Once it's adjusted, use Lore to operate the detector.

Ben

Just spent 2 hours recounting the 15 minute fight from last night

BESW

07:34

@Shalvenay Here's a concept for your fantasy infrastructure repair: a hive of underground monsters has been defeated, but their network of tunnels beneath the city will pose a risk of collapses and sinkholes for decades to come.

Baskakov_Dmitriy

09:15

0

Q: How can we solve a problem of newcomers getting unexplained downvotes?

Newcomers don't know all the rules. Even if they have read all the rules and have all good intentions, it is very hard to understand the SE philosophy by the first grasp because of how special this site is, particularly if compared to the typical RPG forums. What is even more important, newcomers...

The Oracle

10:06

0

Q: How can we solve a problem of newcomers getting unexplained downvotes?

Newcomers don't know all the rules. Even if they have read all the rules and have all good intentions, it is very hard to understand the SE philosophy by the first grasp because of how special this site is, particularly if compared to the typical RPG forums. What is even more important, newcomers...

discussion down-votes

kviiri

11:11

@BESW I think Vololo's Guide to Monsters actually had a bit about some settled communities hiring or "hiring" kobolds to do their sewer-work because they're pretty good at the whole tunneling biz.

BESW

Just don't get Diggerverse dwarves to do it for you.

kviiri

I have a Dwarf Fortress headcanon regarding how the materials in the game work. For instance, how a dwarf can mine a large wall to produce a rock of dolomite that's small enough not to hinder passage over the tile in the slightest, then build a wall out of the rock so it blocks the tile, demolish the wall to yield the original rock, turn the rock into a staircase etc...

namely, the DF world is mostly constructed out of extradimensional "mimic matter" that is very malleable but requires a piece of normal matter as a seed to work. A dwarf, when mining a wall, actually dislodges the seed from the tile, causing the mimic matter to become invisible and incorporeal.

When building a wall, floor, staircase etc, the dwarf first shapes the mimic material (using their beard senses) into the correct shape and then plugs in the seed. When demolishing, the dorf removes the seed, causing the mimic matter to vanish into incorporeal existence.

@BESW Ouch!

BESW

Wombats take engineering very seriously, and have a very dim view of magic. Tunneling around underground they encounter lots of dying spells, rotting magics, dead gods, etc.

eimyr

11:27

hi chat

trogdor

hello

kviiri

Hi

eimyr

what's up?

trogdor

just got done with Thanksgiving here

eimyr

@trogdor oh, how lovely

trogdor

11:34

yes, it was pretty nice

eimyr

I didn't know Thanksgiving was a thing outside of continental US

trogdor

well yeah it moved over to Guam too

even though there is no real reason,.... to celebrate it here

BESW

Well, it's an American tradition and we are technically American.

trogdor

but I still appreciate the Turkey dinner and the days off at least

@BESW yeah but,... you know

there are some issues with this as a holiday

some issues that don't translate well to it moving here

BESW

Actually though, it's kinda interesting, Thanksgiving didn't get entrenched in the local culture (ie, outside of the visiting military families) until cable TV became more prevalent and at the same time grocery stores started shipping in more frozen and fresh goods from the mainland in addition to the canned stuff.

kviiri

11:38

When was that, roughly speaking?

BESW

Roughly simultaneously there was more exposure to popular culture depictions of the holiday, and more resources to recreate it.

The 70s, I believe.

trogdor

fair enough but I think you know what I mean when I say that

there are colonialism issues here and this is a colonial holiday

I like this day out of context, but there is some serious irony in context

kviiri

Yep.

BESW

Oh, absolutely. It's arguably not a holiday that any place has a reason to celebrate, contextually speaking.

eimyr

Isn't Thanksgiving a celebration of events that never happened and ideals that were never put to use?

trogdor

11:43

@BESW yeah that is fair

eimyr

that's how it was described to me by a Usican acquaintance

trogdor

@eimyr yes but it's more than that too

it celebrates an either embellished event or a downright fictional one

kviiri

I would sort of like a holiday where Thanksgiving is, because in this dark time of the year it's always fun to have things to celebrate.

trogdor

and it celebrates among that getting along with the Native Americans,.... which is not how the majority of our history worked at all

@kviiri I would love to keep the holiday and have it celebrate something else,.... or something

kviiri

@trogdor I see what you mean. It would probably rile up a lot of conservatives though.

trogdor

11:46

as is I admit I still like having the day off and the celebration, but I will easily admit there is something wrong with how it is shown in schools and what it currently stands for

eimyr

@kviiri Columbus Day is even worse though.

trogdor

@kviiri yeah well they deserve to be riled up a little :P sorry about the politics

@eimyr won't argue with that

kviiri

@trogdor I agree in principle, but sometimes there's a nasty bit of backlash when reforming things too quick :<

Speaking of politics, I would still like to try an RPG based on politics at some point.

trogdor

that is a fair way to look at it

eimyr

@kviiri Any examples?

trogdor

11:49

but sometimes I feel like our heels get dragged on reforms for things that should have changed years ago and then someone complains about the change anyway

kviiri

@eimyr Not that I know of. I'm a huge fan of Hidden Agenda, the computer game though and would probably steal a lot from it.

trogdor

and that has nothing to do with political parties or anything

@eimyr I think actual examples would push the "please no politics" in chat more than what I have said the last couple times already

kviiri

Summary of Hidden Agenda: you the player control the Presidente of Chimerica, a fictional S. American country recently liberated from the dictator Farsante by a joint revolution by the Left-Wing National Liberation Front and a mutiny of the de jure army.

eimyr

@trogdor I asked for examples of games which are based on politics, because I wasn't sure what @kviiri meant by that.

trogdor

ooooh sorry I missed that

kviiri

11:53

As the Presidente, the player gets to appoint four ministers (Agriculture, Defense, Interior, Exterior) from three parties: the radical-left National Liberation, the capitalist democratic Popular Stability and the centrist moderate Christian Reform.

eimyr

@kviiri You could totally hack Great Ork Gods to play politicians

kviiri

And then work on their advice to solve issues like malnutrition, corruption, mounting debt and the fragile balance between the Reconciliation Army (basically, merger of the leftist rebels and the post-mutiny army) while working to prepare elections if the player so desires.

trogdor

@eimyr instead of dying you get voted out?

kviiri

@eimyr How would that work? (I'm unfamiliar with the mechanics)

eimyr

@kviiri in GOG each player controls an Ork, who wants to kill and maim and gain fame or something like this. additionally, each player controls one (or more, in small groups) of Gods - like God of Nimbleness, God of Gob, God of Clever - and decides the difficulty of all actions related to their god's domain

BESW

11:58

Political RPGs... like, specifically "you're playing politicians and government officials" politics, or more generally RPGs that front-line political subjects?

trogdor

@eimyr it's called oog but it can translate to fame nicely

kviiri

@BESW The former. Sorry, I should've been a bit clearer about that

@eimyr I like the concept a lot, that sounds cool.

BESW

[rummages through RPG folders]

trogdor

@kviiri it's a very fun game

kviiri

There was actually an interesting bit of political drama here in Finland, almost fit for some TV series. Basically, last Summer, our leading nationalist conservative party was split up when the more radical anti-immigration wing won the party board. That was followed by a mass exodus of more moderate members (including the party's former leader), who formed a new party

BESW

11:59

The Fate setting "House of Bards," obviously.

eimyr

@BESW that too

kviiri

To become an official party, they had to collect "support cards", that are basically in the form "I, <name> support the foundation of the new party X"

They collected the required amount with ease, but the old party's youth association sent a volunteer team to check all the cards they received (a five-figure number, IIRC) to see if any old party members had signed, because it's apparently grounds for dismissal from the main party :)

@BESW I love the name!

BESW

The Princes' Kingdom is a sideways look at that sort of thing.

HGMO is about a nobleman, but he's not really involved in anything political.

King Arthur Pendragon doesn't delve into politics much either.

kviiri

@BESW Heehee :)

A problem with having an RPG about life in politics is that it somehow has to incorporate or dodge real life speculation or value bullets.

BESW

Mmm, yes, I've seen a lot of polemic tabletop games springing up on DTRPG, Kickstarter, etc., over the last year or two.

kviiri

12:07

Eg. a left wing candidate in the game wins the election and shifts the taxation to be more progressive. Then the players either spend a few hours debating on whether trickle-down economics work and the GM (if there's one) makes the call based on how they feel. Could be problematic.

That's why making the politics fantastic while still feeling like politics would be a good way, I think.

BESW

There's always Nomic.

kviiri

I was hugely interested in Nomic when I was in my teens, but never got around to playing it for long.

I feel it got too fast into "we just made it more complex just because" :)

...which I guess is the point of the game, overall.

BESW

12:39

Last week I decided that a game which fits on the front of a sheet of typing paper, needs simpler rules.

Some day I figure I'll decide that freeform RP has too many rules, and I'll disappear in a puff of reductive reasoning.

eimyr

@BESW Fate of BESW -> Roll for BESW -> Freeform BESW -> NomBESW -> ??? -> PROFIT

BESW

It's weird, because I love games rules. I could noodle around making subsystems for days--and I have!

doppelspooker

@BESW to be fair though, it was quite an accomplishment to make a game that fits on the front of a sheet of typing paper that was that complex.

BESW

But more and more I get impatient with rules explanations that aren't immediately clear, or mechanics that seem to get in the way of the play rather than reinforce it.

@doppelspooker Yes. I think maybe what it actually needs is a re-write to explain itself better?

Not actually changing anything, just not having you flip between three or four different sections to figure out how to resolve a single action.

doppelspooker

@BESW one that uses the word 'danger' in significantly fewer places, too.

but yes i completely agree

BESW

12:51

[adds to list of things to do]

And now, goodnight.

doppelspooker

it could be a lot more straightforward if i wasn't looking back and forward between six different boxes which each contain two completely different things, one of which will always be overlooked, whilst every game action involves consulting 2-3 such boxes

@BESW Goodnight! :)

@BESW [adds to list of things to beat BESW to doing!!!]

eimyr

@doppelspooker What's the game?

doppelspooker

@eimyr Danger Patrol: Pocket Edition

typo of the day: "damage boats"

> Damage boats. When you're holding a nautical vessel for a blunt force weapon, you get +4 to overcoming physical obstacles (whether in the form of objects and/or people).

kviiri

Well, there are three kinds of fitting a game on a single sheet.

1) inherently simple
2) complex game described concisely and often in more complex terms to save space
3) really small font

doppelspooker

there's a fourth

kviiri

13:07

@doppelspooker That looks like it would invite a lot of debate over the rules ;)

doppelspooker

13:35

@kviiri comes with the (three hundred foot long, one foot wide) territory

doppelspooker

13:56

→ 5 messages moved to Trashcan

Let me clarify this will not be discussed here in this room. Full stop.

→ 5 messages moved to Trashcan

I'll move the rest away too so we don't have to worry about that.

Erics

14:41

@KorvinStarmast why do we even have that lever?

KorvinStarmast

Hello Erics, nice to see you.

Heh, it's a family favorite. Are you sure AOO is a 2e thing? I don't recall it, but that might have been the tables I played at. 2e was when my RL got in the way of my RPG ...

our 2e play had a lot of 1e/2e mix and match due to the group...

Erics

15:51

@KorvinStarmast hmm .. I don't see it as a specific ruleset in its own right, but there is mention of additional (opportunistic) attacks when an opponent flees, and also when guarding(?)

There is a mention of AOO in the optional rule book Player's Option - Combat & Tactics

Hmm ... no AOO if Brand the Bard chooses the withdraw option

(question edited)

KorvinStarmast

17:19

@Erics Oh, that's right, players option had a lot of new stuff. Forgot. Good catch.

The Oracle

17:35

1

Q: Merge [resistance] into [damage-resistance]?

Should we merge (and make synonyms) the resistance and damage-resistance?

discussion tags

BESW

21:13

@doppelgreener Like this?

trogdor

21:34

perfect example

Trish

21:44

@BESW doesn't the wording exclude monsters?

Shalvenay

hey @Trish

trogdor

@Trish what? how does it exclude anyone?

BESW

Trish

Isn't it the other way round? People are monsters too?

trogdor

both of those can be applied

I don't see a point of argument here

Shalvenay

21:48

@BESW sounds like a slogan my Gnoll could use :D

trogdor

@Shalvenay would your gnoll really describe itself as a monster?

Shalvenay

@trogdor she might not, but I'm sure some other people might have to be reminded :P

trogdor

fair enough

I don't think any creature would describe themselves as a monster

Trish

@trogdor Usually the term "People" excludes most "monsters" and "creatures", but is a subset of creatures which is a subset of monsters which itself is a subset of beings...

trogdor

unless there was a lot of self loathing involved

Trish

21:50

is there a term for non-beings?!

trogdor

uh,...

@Trish my problem with that is that alllllll of those definitions could be taken any way though

any two people could disagree about what a person or a creature or a monster is

BESW

Happily, the mechanic in question is a Fate stunt, so debates over precise wording are completely unnecessary.

trogdor

@Trish things I guess? I mean "beings" at least as far as I understand it, is supposed to be pretty all encompassing for,.... that category

GreySage

@Trish A chair is a non-being, it is a thing

trogdor

yeah that is my reasoning as well

GreySage

21:56

I would say that beings is a subset of non-beings

Trish

and what about non-thing-non-beings? figments?

GreySage

@Trish Do any of them exist?

trogdor

ok this has gone too far for me XD

Trish

not proven :P

ACuriousMind

@Trish Ideas.

Trish

21:56

but an illusion would be a non-thing-non-being...

Shalvenay

hey there @GreySage and @ACuriousMind

GreySage

@ACuriousMind An idea can be a thing

ACuriousMind

@GreySage The logician in me refuses to ponder that option :P

Things that are X cannot be a subset of things that aren't X!

GreySage

@ACuriousMind how about instead of non-beings it is things? Making a thing that is not a being a non-being.

ACuriousMind

@GreySage That works

GreySage

22:03

An illusion is a thing. It's just a thing that looks(or feels, or whatever) like a different thing.

doppelgreener

@BESW Exactly!

The kind of thing Obelix would do with a boat is also acceptable.

Trish

@GreySage but a thing exists, an illusion doesn't.

GreySage

@Trish an illusion exists (at least if we are talking typical fantasy trope/D&D-style illusion). It is a magical force or energy that creates an effect. It can even affect the real world in certain circumstances.

Trish

@GreySage how about a hallucination? that doesn'T exist but is a figment of somebody's immagination...

GreySage

@Trish Ambiguous. It could be a thought, which certainly exists, but it could also be a collection of false sensory information caused by something that exists, which... maybe exists?

doppelgreener

22:30

Typically illusions can be distinguished from hallucinations because hallucinations are in the person's head, but illusions are there for anyone to see. Even a century from now, a person who visits so-and-so place would see an illusory wall. But them hallucinating the wall would require tampering with each and every mind, even those that don't work the same way.

doppelgreener

22:42

... wait i just realised that might not even have needed saying

don't mind me, i've had a long day

(a good one overall, but long)

trogdor

23:02

XD

Shalvenay

23:21

hey there @Zachiel

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