TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

00:00

Yup.

I'm sitting on a -6/18. Some day....

(That -6 score is on +5/-11 votes!)

Ben

@nitsua60 Wow!

I'm reading through some of accounts of my Dark Heresy game.

My Techpriest was a tank...

"The Heavy Stubber then changes its focus to Hadden as he begins to charge up the main street. With some difficulty, one bullet hits – it ricochets of the Techpriest’s arm. Another hit’s him in the shoulder, but glances of the armour....

... The third hit’s him directly in the face. The Techpriest stumbles slightly as his head whips around from the force of the blow, only to readjust himself. With a direct look at the gunner, Hadden spits out a globule of blood; the rebreather torn to shreds and the side of his mouth split open. The look of pure hatred and lack of fear in his eyes causes the gunner to simply flee."

nitsua60

@Ben I think it's a race to see if I rep-cap 43 times or that question sees two more views for my next potential gold badgers =)

@Ben What's the elevator pitch for Dark Heresy?

Ben

Warhammer 40K. The Far future. Humanity has grown to the point where Earth is the holiest of holy places - nearing myth.

nitsua60

So say we all.

Ben

But such growth invites other evils: The Chaos of the Warp being the most evil; seeking only destruction of the God-Emperor of man.

You play as a member of an Inquisitorial squad, from a Psyker - a caster that draws power from the Warp - the very same place that the Demons of Chaos call home, to an Imperial soldier, a Holy Cleric, or even a Techpriest, a follower of the Machine order that sees flesh as weakness, and metal as purity.

nitsua60

00:17

tfw archive.org has grabbed a 404 page in the place of the content you'd hoped for....

And thank you, WotC, for allowing high-school Computer Applications 101 classes to design your website(s) all these years.

Ben

Elevator pitch /10?

nitsua60

@Ben 7 or 8.

Got the flavor and a lot of setting packed in there.

Ben

Awesome :D

nitsua60

But "you play as a member of an Inquisitorial squad" leaves me a little in the dark on what I'll actually do.

Ben

The Inquisitors are the right-hand of the Imperium of Man. You seek out the evil that corrupts and destroys the sanctity of the human empire.

Miniman

00:23

@nitsua60 Mentioning it in chat is a good way to get at least one of those :P

Adeptus

17 hours left on the Warhammer RPG bundle

2

(I did announce it when it was new, but nobody seemed to take much notice...)

Ben

That happens sometimes

Miniman

I noticed, I just didn't say anything because I was struggling with an ethical conundrum.

Adeptus

00:38

Maybe "notice" was the wrong word...

Ben

If you want to re-word an existing answer, you'd be better off editing it than providing a different one... right?

trogdor

@BESW yeah I would actually like that I don't see us finishing the bubblegumshoe game with everyone any time soon

BESW

BGS isn't really a "going to be finished" campaign, I think. It's very episodic, without any particular arc to complete.

Ben

@BESW TPK. That'll finish it :P

BESW

Since it was designed to be played with whoever's around, it seems good for our "only Troggy showed up" games.

Ben

00:50

Makes sense

trogdor

OK I will rephrase then, I don't see much I can do with the character outside of a 121 for a while

Ben

In that case (if it were me) I'd answer that with a personalised ending :)

nitsua60

@Miniman I figured there were few-to-no people around here who'd be curious enough to find it but who wouldn't have already voted on it =)

@Ben existing one is your own, or someone else's?

Ben

Some one else's

Miniman

@Ben Unless the changes are so drastic as to invalidate votes, probably.

Ignore that, I didn't realise you meant someone else's.

Ben

00:55

@Miniman Ignore what?

;P

nitsua60

@Ben Comment with a suggested improvement to the wording.

Ben

Wow... the dyslexia is strong today. Spelled "only" as "noyl"

@nitsua60 My feeling was that the whole post needed to be re-worded... it was a little "Do but don't" throughout the whole post.

I added my own - it reiterated a little of what had already been said in the previous post, but I think I added a little more

nitsua60

01:11

@Ben cool. Remember, it's the fifteen thousand searchers to come we're serving; go ahead and make the database better =)

271

Q: We're working on a new stat to help convey the reach of your posts here

We've got a new statistic on the shiny new Profile Page Prototype. It's not perfect yet. And we did a pretty crap job of explaining what it's all about! Let's talk. What you do here isn't just about solving one person's problem. A while back, a user contacted us about his friend's account. His...

Ben

@nitsua60 You know... that really puts things in perspective. As a mod you're not really at the top of the chain, you're at the bottom haha

BESW

@trogdor Starting problem?

> Friended Lance. You friended Lance Soriano on Facebook. It was part of researching a case, but now the whole school knows and your reputation is in danger. -1 to all General/Interpersonal checks with your peers. Counter by mending your reputation.

nitsua60

@Ben I think of mod-ship like being an employed groundskeeper at a community garden. You-all (the volunteers) plant and tend and prune and water.... And you do a lot of cleaning up. But we also clean up, including when the kid who ate too many popsicles pukes and you say "eh, I've got other things to do." And sometimes we push for community meetings where we'll discuss the direction of the garden's growth/development. And occasionally we kick out hooligans.

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay Hello, been a horrible day. Hope yours was much mo betta

@nitsua60 And occasionally we kick out hooligans

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast hugs

KorvinStarmast

01:21

Uh, I took that personally. :p 8^D

Yeah, home now, glass of wine, my gal by my side showing me Elvis videos from their luncheon today. Hilarious

Their boss turned 65 today and the ladies in the office threw him a party

@Ben Ben, that's kinda like Jesus. He's the King who serves, and who sacrifices for his people, unlike the Kings who use and abuse their people.

nits is a great example of humble servant. We all knew that when we voted for him

2

I think I'll quit while I'm ahead, so good night to you all and best wishes in all things for you

Ben

Enjoy your evening @Korvin

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast if so, it's only what I've learned emulating the good people I try to surround myself with. Including in this room.

trogdor

The heck? My reply went to the wrong person

Stupid phone

@BESW anyway yes I like that one it is exactly what I should use

BESW

01:36

Yey!

trogdor

That is exactly the thing that works best as one of these trouble mechanics for her

BESW

I think Willow has more solo potential than any of the other sleuths, except Taylor.

trogdor

02:03

Taylor is definitely interesting enough for a solo game

Ben

Ok, can I ask who has had a look at the D&D facebook page I posted?

If anyone haha

"Tales of Ron"?

@trogdor I just roll with it.

Keep em guessing

trogdor

02:48

@Ben I'm not wired to ignore when my stupid phone makes a mistake despite my babysitting XD

The Oracle

0

Q: Highly-downvoted duplicate questions

I've noticed that this recent question is probably a duplicate of this question. However, as a recent recipient of the 5e gold badge, I'm hesitant to unilaterally close it as a duplicate. I have the following questions: Is it really a duplicate? The first is asking for confirmation, I suppose, ...

discussion close-reasons duplicates

Joel Harmon

03:55

@MikeQ You mean you don't explain the D&D stats with tomatoes?

Strength is lifting baskets of tomatoes.
Dexterity is picking tomatoes without hurting them.
Constitution is working tomatoes in the sun all day.
Intelligence is knowing tomatoes are a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing not to put tomatoes in a fruit salad.
Charisma is convincing someone to do it anyway.

2

Adeptus

04:14

BESW

Dec 23 '13 at 11:23, by Magician

Planes are the same, structure is entirely different. Wheel has hung (fractal) tomatoes on itself, Astral Sea is salsa.

Magician

...I don't remember saying this. I blame an intellect devourer.

trogdor

Only an intellect devourer

Would blame intelect devourers

:P

Magician

Did you just accuse intellect devourers of a certain behavior? Hmmmm.

trogdor

So now we wait for everyone who weighs in to be proved as one

BESW

04:20

@Magician Paranoia hack: instead of Cold War propaganda, Friend Computer is running off D&D setting information. Particularly, all the weird "this whole room and everything in it is not what it seems" monsters.

2

Magician

Are you happy, adventurer?

trogdor

@Magician but who has caught me doing it? Just another one of us

BESW

...Hey, even the six-pack mechanic translates nicely.

Rules awareness prohibitions are meta-gaming...

Magician

Failure to report all suspected intellect devourers, halflings and bards may be taken as secretly being one.

Trust Friend DM.

trogdor

Yesss trusssst

Adeptus

04:31

@Magician This "gnome rogue/sorcerer" is a bit too... musical. And he has hairy feet.

daze413

06:26

@JoelHarmon ugh, I wanna star one of those, but not sure which one

trogdor

lol, you would have to star all of em anyway

XD :P

daze413

I was struggling to pick one over the other and just settled on the meat of it

trogdor

it is an interesting idea

to use something like that to describe stats

doppelgreener

10:04

@trogdor dragons:

(imgur tells me they are called red eye crocodile skinks)

BESW

10:30

@doppelgreener Perhaps that's a local idiom for "handful of baby dragons."

Imgur has a lot of those, like "potato."

eimyr

skinks are awesome

BESW

I contain agreement.

eimyr

@BESW How's your chaotic frogs game going?

BESW

Not.

I mostly design games when I don't have any games going, and I'm currently learning/hacking Gumshoe One-2-One.

(Also, new game design in the pot: Rocket Surgery, the sequel to Surgadores.)

eimyr

@BESW Interesting. What is it about?

BESW

10:44

Using military-grade high explosive weaponry to perform surgery.

eimyr

on... a person?

BESW

Yes.

eimyr

Is Death present in person?

BESW

Right now you know about as much as I do, except I'm hoping to use the CthulhuTech dice pool concept for the mechanics.

eimyr

Hah. Cool.

BESW

10:48

For now it's on the shelf waiting for another dry spell.

eimyr

You should make a prequel, Drive-by Surgery.

trogdor

@doppelgreener fantastic

eimyr

It would be about performing surgery in the hood, where you can't afford to stop your ambulance for very long or someone will steal your radio.

BESW

11:07

But yeah, I'm excited about Gumshoe One-2-One right now. It's very challenging to rebuild for a different genre.

So that's where my "game design" energy is going right now.

doppelgreener

@BESW to be fair it was doubly insisted by imgur that they're definitely dragons. so i can accept that theory. it's a bit of a complicated collective noun but english has done worse.

BESW

True.

BTW, what are the chances of having you for Saturday?

doppelgreener

Very good. I'll see you there. :)

BESW

^^

Maybe I can practice Gumshoe One-2-One on you.

Dr R Dizzle

How do you guys/gals organise your campaigns while DMing? Do you have a structure to your notes that helps you easily find what you want? Do you write campaigns in a similar way to official releases (e.g. The Lost Mines of Phandelver)?

BESW

11:18

Depends on the campaign and the system.

Dr R Dizzle

It's something I'm writing myself, and it's in 5E.

BESW

Back in the day with D&D, I'd make notes on the broad outline of the story arc I wanted to follow, and then fill it in with details as we played.

So I always knew the big picture, but I'd be designing the specifics a week or two ahead of when they'd hit the table.

Dr R Dizzle

That makes sense.

BESW

That way everything would be consistent: I could foreshadow stuff, but I could also modify things to accommodate what really happened.

Joel Harmon

@daze413 One of the tomato lines? I posted them with newlines, not as separate entries, so that chat wouldn't post something else in between them.

BESW

11:20

It also let me tailor encounters to the party's abilities and powers.

Dr R Dizzle

I've got the broad ideas for a multi-arc campaign, and I've got some ideas for those individual arcs, but I have no idea how to get it all down on paper in a way that makes it easy to reference and find the information I need at any point.

BESW

Often I'd write the plot arc as a bulleted list with inset notes, and then I'd have a folder structure that matched each major bullet on the list containing all the pictures, notes, and files related to that part of the story.

Dr R Dizzle

Now that sounds useful.

BESW

If I were doing that sort of thing again today, I might use Scrivener.

For more open-form campaigns, I'd instead have a list and folders for locations and characters (and triggered events).

And then as I used all that material to create the actual sessions, I'd have a new folder structure that would become a record of what actually happened.

[rummages around, takes some screen shots]

Joel Harmon

@DrRDizzle I've been heavily influenced by Dungeon World's system of Fronts. It's less a pre-planned system of "this is where the story will go" arcs, and more of a "this is where interesting/dramatic things will come from".

BESW

11:27

Here's another thing you can do:

With plot radar, I track story elements relative to how close the party is to resolving them. Shows me what I should focus on and prep.

Tweeted by dungeonbastard on September 22, 2017 at 2:48 PM in reply to dungeonbastard

Joel Harmon

dungeonworldsrd.com/gamemastering/fronts

BESW

Bubblegumshoe, because it's a character-driven game, suggests that you make a list of major NPCs and keep track of when they've most recently appeared. When designing your next adventure, try to include a few of the NPCs who haven't showed up recently.

Joel Harmon

I suppose game prep/tracking methods are like game systems. You can manage nearly anything with any of them, but they have natural biases toward what kind of results you'll get out of them.

BESW

eyup.

In 4e, I created adventure guides for myself that were very much like the published adventure formats.

But that was just the finished product; my process didn't change much.

Joel Harmon

Something to note here is you can do a mashup much easier. For example, steal the Fronts idea from Dungeon World to show external threats to the kingdom, but the relationship graph from Bugglegumshoe to track court politics.

kviiri

11:35

I mentally divide my prep into two tiers: concrete (individual scenes, encounters, dungeons, NPCs) and abstract (grander-scale but less detailed thoughts of what's happening in the world, like the Apocalypse World fronts)

BESW

Dr R Dizzle

That's all really useful. I need to get my notes in order.

One benefit I do have is that my players are less interested in the sandbox approach and more interested in simply going on interesting adventures, so I've been able (at least so far) to not have to worry too much about them going "off-book".

BESW

My notes are awful.

Like, I try.

But no.

trogdor

@doppelgreener thank you for taking up the slack, you are a true patriot

"salutes"

kviiri

11:50

In this current campaign, I've given up on trying to have a sensible "database of everything". Instead, there's the newsletter, and I frequently read older articles I've written to establish what's canon in this verse :)

daze413

@DrRDizzle theres a question thats related I think might help... I camt find it at the moment, though. I know SSD answered, is there a way to filter a question by a user who posted an answer there?

Aha!

10

Q: How do I turn a scenario idea into an adventure?

I'm still struggling with, as a GM, turning a scenario idea or a goal of the PCs' into a proper adventure. A proper adventure has challenging, multiple steps — I'm failing to get the “multiple steps” part. For example, if the initial idea/goal is “Rescue the people kidnapped from the tavern by O...

gm-techniques adventure-writing story improvisation

It was easier to search "user:sevensideddie is:answer crystal" hahaha

BESW

@trogdor Dice with dragony things on them.

trogdor

oh good lord

a money sink

XD

honestly very tempting, even if I don't know how many games I would actually roll them for

but bad timing for me at the moment

doppelgreener

12:10

@trogdor :'D you're welcome. you'll be out this week and next, right?

trogdor

yes

all things to plan, I should be back the one after next

doppelgreener

ok. :)

BESW

Hmm. Translating a BGS character to GS121 looks actually surprisingly easy.

trogdor

they were made in very similar systems by the same group right?

doppelgreener

you want to translate a british geological survey character into a lubricant?

BESW

12:18

@doppelgreener You write your fanfic and I'll write mine.

kviiri

@doppelgreener It's a sealant!

Seal-Ant. Has the powers of an ant and the charm of a seal.

doppelgreener

@kviiri whoops. that's quite the opposite, isn't it.

(even more opposite would be a glue i guess)

BESW

@trogdor Yeah, but the translation's easier than I thought. GS121 isn't designed to be compatible with regular Gumshoe, and Bubblegumshoe is a different offshoot of Gumshoe anyway.

But the BGS weirdness and the GS121 weirdness sorta... overlap.

trogdor

lol

BESW

Even though BGS wasn't designed by Pelgrane. It's an Evil Hat thing, and most Gumshoe stuff (like Cthulhu Confidential) is Pelgrane.

trogdor

12:22

ah

BESW

Like, your Likes and Loves in BGS (spend points from their pools to do things you normally couldn't because these people are your friends) can translate directly to One-2-One's Sources (include these friends in a scene to get access to Investigation skills you don't have yourself).

Remember in our one-shot, when you visited the crazy guy with the shotgun who explained the Mythos stuff to you? That was a Source.

You didn't have the Mythos skill, so you had a scene with a friend who 'splained it to you.

trogdor

yeah

I remember he was a source

I also used the fence guy and the reporter

BESW

So, basically to translate an existing BGS Sleuth into Gumshoe One-2-One, you just have to add Interpersonal/Academic abilities until you've got 14 of them; then assign 16 dice to the General skills, giving 0, 1, or 2 dice to each.

Work with the GM to craft a starting problem, and after that it's mostly up to the GM to build adventures that keep in mind your other qualities.

If I can get you to do that before you go, @trogdor, it'll help me have an adventure when you get back. I'll whip a Drive doc to make it painless.

kviiri

12:43

We were once homebrewing a system about people investigating paranormal stuff in Renaissance Italy while trying to cope with various mundane threats like political rivals. The paranormal stuff was basically witches not-much-unlike DnD Warlocks trying to channel magic from offworldly creatures who aren't usually very good or evil, but are extremely capricious most of the time.

I like the Apolcapyse World thing where you can roll at the beginning of the session to see what kind of trouble you're in this time, so we wound up ordering each PC to list six rivals, enemies or so of their character, in the order of importance so the most petty one is at 1 and the most threatening one at 6.

trogdor

@BESW ok, I probably have time for that either before I sleep tonight or before I leave tomorrow

I have about half the day tomorrow before I have to go

kviiri

So there's a supernatural threat level from 0-6, and it eclipses threats of that level and lower - so as the threat level rises, the players who roll low on their threat list instead get into supernatural trouble :)

Eg. some careless witch binds one of the spirits into a statue, and it starts making trouble. Yikes!

trogdor

also, I could probably take care of that after I left

it would just take at least several hours to a few days

DForck42

13:04

mornin

BESW

[wave]

DForck42

how goes it?

BESW

Weary. You?

DForck42

@BESW tired

BESW

I remember tired.

trogdor

13:12

lol

DForck42

lol

eimyr

13:31

lol

trogdor

hat trick

BESW

trogdor

night

initiating shut down procedures, logging off

XD

BESW

NautArch

13:51

howdy howdy

DForck42

@NautArch mornin

NautArch

@DForck42 what's the good word?

DForck42

@NautArch sesquipedalian

NautArch

that is a good word :)

Just played my last session of D&D for about a month. I'm very sad.

DForck42

@NautArch sad

we're having our last session next week, but it's not so sad cause I'm ready for this one to be over

NautArch

14:10

that's how i feel about our main campaign. We probably have a few months left on that one.

but at least I went out with a bang last night. Counterspelled some spirit nagas a couple of times and then took out some Slaadi as a T-Rex.

and some sort of caster as well.

kviiri

15:03

@BESW I took a look at Lady Blackbird btw, and I think it looks very fancy! It has this sort of polished, "DnD-esque" big RPG look while being rather neat and compact.

DForck42

@NautArch I smacked a young red dragon on the nose last night

with my lore bard

kviiri

@DForck42 I would've used a sword if I was you, but a bard works in a pinch too.

Yuuki

@kviiri If only that Bard had Paladin levels.

DForck42

15:20

@kviiri lol

basically, I slapped it and then cast hold monster

NautArch

15:33

@DForck42 the night of lore bards kick arse!

kviiri

I rather regret taking Lore Bard myself.

The concentration thing makes playing a support caster rather bleak :<

GreySage

@kviiri It would be hard to keep concentration while being used as a blunt instrument.

NautArch

@kviiri i love my lore bard. Tool for nearly every situation.

Skill set is only second to rogues, can control a fight, can deal damage and can likely do some pew-pew damage.

kviiri

@NautArch Flexibility is nice, but it's also annoying to prepare for a variety of situations and then see none of them ever happen.

NautArch

@kviiri One of them almost always does. And you just need one (with only one concentration)

kviiri

15:38

@NautArch Yeah, I was thinking more about spell picks. Concentration is the limiting factor on battle utility, though.

NautArch

I did dip into warlock to get EB so that I had an at-will decent damage.

what level are you?

kviiri

6

NautArch

what did you take for your secrets?

kviiri

Haste and counterspell

NautArch

nice choices - i guess you've got a melee you can buff?

what are your spells?

kviiri

15:42

Yeah, I have a Barbarian and a Paladin in my party. Or well, at least one at a time.

SirTechSpec

Hey gang, check my math on this - a Monk 5/Warlock 1 with Hex can do 4(1d6+4+1d6)=8d6+16~~44 damage per round for 5 rounds (after spending part of a round to cast Hex), yes?

doppelgreener

@SirTechSpec Those dice equations look correct. (Anydice chart here.). I don't know about the class mechanics themselves though so I'm taking an assumption you've picked out the correct dice.

kviiri

For spells, I have L1: Thunderwave, Heroism, Bane and Healing Word, L2: Deafness/Blindness, Shatter and L3: Plant Growth, Haste, Counterspell and Dispel Magic

I've been trying to focus on support magic because Bards have terrible damage spells.

NautArch

@SirTechSpec unarmed strikes? or a weapon?

SirTechSpec

@NautArch I think either one should work (Extra Attack plus Flurry of Blows, d6 Martial Arts die.)

NautArch

15:48

I'd probably drop Bane and Heroism. The debuff I never really felt was fully worth it and Heroism i've found to be meh. Heat Metal can be a game changer when you encounter someone wearing armor (which can be often).

Does your DM allow illusion shenanigans?

If so, I'd suggest Phantasmal Force. If not, Fear is pretty amazing.

kviiri

@NautArch Mu, we have a changing GM so it's impossible to generalize, unfortunately. I proposed house rules regarding illusions but the rest of the party went with "up to the GM" so I won't pick any apart from Minor Illusion which I have as a flavor cantrip.

SirTechSpec

+1 to Heat Metal. If you don't need it, you're probably already fine. If you do, there's nothing like taking an AC 18-20 opponent who thinks they're invincible and cutting them down to size.

kviiri

Heat Metal is pretty awesome, yep. I've been thinking of switching one of my low level spells to that.

But I think bane is a good debuff.

NautArch

@SirTechSpec Yeah, if you churn through your Ki Points to do the FLurry of blows, that calculation looks right.

DForck42

@NautArch or if you're playing princes of the apocolype almost never...

NautArch

15:51

@kviiri I think it's better where you are now, but as you level it doesn't help as much when the monsters have big hit/save modifiers.

@DForck42 no one wears armor in that?

DForck42

@NautArch it's few and far between

that, or it's made out of bone

NautArch

@kviiri Yeah, I'd stay away from Phantasmal Force then :)

kviiri

@NautArch Well, assuming the monsters have reasonable modifiers, it's a 1/8 flat chance of turning a hit into a miss or a save into a fail.

NautArch

See invisibility is a GREAT buff, though. No concentration.

kviiri

That applied to up to three monsters can be very beneficial for a level 1 spell.

DForck42

15:53

my dm 95% of the time rolls good against my saves... it's frustrating

kviiri

I wish 5e retained the "everything is attack" style of 4e. I don't see how saving throws really improve the game.

Adam

@SirTechSpec Hex is a bonus action spell, so you can still make an attack on the same turn you use it. So, first round you can get two attacks, and then each round after that you can make three more attacks without flurry of blows, or 4 with it. Sounds like you should be able to make 14 - 18 attacks over 5 rounds

NautArch

@Adam assuming it's the same creature - otherwise you'll lose the bonus action to either Flurry OR moving the Hex

DForck42

@kviiri because some people complained?

I remember quite a few people complaining about not having saves

NautArch

@Adam where's the third attack coming from without the Flurry?

SirTechSpec

15:59

@NautArch Martial Arts base feature

Essentially two-weapon fighting whether you have two weapons or not

NautArch

ah, right.

sorry, was thinking you were tryin gto do that AND the flurry

so first round is 2 attacks plus BA Hex. Then each round after (assuming 1 target never changing) is 3-4 attacks.

SirTechSpec

Right

The necessity of switching Hex if the opponent drops is definitely a limitation that I hadn't considered, but a manageable one

DForck42

@kviiri yeah, some people didn't like not rolling for saves and felt that it was basically just ac but a different number

SirTechSpec

@DForck42 Not having played 4e, how did spell attacks work? I certainly appreciate the strategic challenge presented by a monster with high AC but low Wis, for example (pressuring you to use spells that call for saving throws rather than attack rolls.)

DForck42

@SirTechSpec depending on the spell, you attack them against a different defense

I think you still rolled for the attack

kviiri

16:03

@DForck42 Well, now I'm complaining about having them :P

NautArch

@SirTechSpec Yup, it's basically just a restart and then you're back it. BUt at least the first two attacks will give the d6 extra damage.

DForck42

so, to make up an example. lets say you're casting Fireball and it targets Reflex. You make an attack roll and add your modifiers, and compare it to the target's Reflex defense. if it meets or exceeds, it's a hit.

different spells attacked different defense

kviiri

@DForck42 Probability wise, it's almost equivalent to have a AC-like stat for each of the ability scores saves are rolled for, and roll an attack against such stats instead of saving. It's not really a matter of feeling, it's the fact of things.

Adam

@SirTechSpec If you can get a buddy to cast haste on you, you can get another attack on top of that every round

DForck42

basically, the attacker is the active entity rather than the attackee

kviiri

16:06

The "almost" part comes in that non-attacks don't have critical hits nor miss-on-fumble, but it's not a major issue either way.

NautArch

@kviiri this is my 15th level (bard 13/warlock 2) build.

kviiri

Whether it's better for the attacker to roll or the defender to roll is a topic people could presumably debate for hours, but I'd at least wish it was consistent.

NautArch

@kviiri i.sstatic.net/R2dkl.png

kviiri

@NautArch Thanks!

NautArch

in terms of my spell build, at least :)

kviiri

16:10

Yeah, some of those are definitely ones I've been avoiding mostly because I fear they're waste-of-picks if not properly handled by the GM.

DForck42

@kviiri like dissonant whispers should technically end a grapple if you cast it on said grappler... that came up last night...

I didn't have the energy to tell him he was wrong so went with it

NautArch

@kviiri Yeah, we get a fair amount of fun leeway. But my go-tos for concentration are heat metal, hypntoic pattern, great invis, poly, animate ojects, bigby

oh, and faerie fire when our rogues are playing

kviiri

@DForck42 I mean more in terms of illusions and so. I don't think my GMs would be eager to do cheap shots like "the orc believes the illusion to be an actual barbarian on your side but still decides to target you", but having no codified effect still makes me feel iffy in a game like this.

DForck42

@NautArch do you tend to polymorph allies or enemies?

NautArch

@DForck42 yup. I like to save the DW for when there's a few of my party around someone. Cast it at level 1 and let my party do the real damage.

DForck42

16:12

@NautArch yup

NautArch

@DForck42 little bit of both. but more often myself if my HP is getting low. Or like last night when I wanted to grapple the dude flying around at 25'

DForck42

that was an argument I had with my dm that I had to prove him wron gon

kviiri

I should build my boss party but I have very little energy for that kind of stuff :<

DForck42

he initially thought DW didn't grant AoO because it's "forced movement"

kviiri

@DForck42 Arguments with the GM are the nastiest :(

DForck42

16:13

but it's not, they spend a reaction to move

and if they don't have a reaction they don't move

NautArch

@kviiri we tend to play it pretty well and I can do things like 'hold' someone in place (grasping spiked chains rise up out of the ground holding them there and digging in"

SirTechSpec

@kviiri better yet, do it the GURPS way and have both the attacker AND defender roll! for every attack!

kviiri

@SirTechSpec Nooo, take it away from me!

DForck42

@SirTechSpec even MAOR SWING!

SirTechSpec

that definitely leads to quick, efficient, easy-to-follow combats ;)

GURPS actually has relatively little swing built in thanks to using 3d6 instead of 1d20 (I sometimes find myself annoyed at the inherent swinginess of the d20.) But it can get a bit crunchy at times for sure.

DForck42

16:19

@SirTechSpec have you played Warhammer?

SirTechSpec

@DForck42 Not as such, no. I've played both WH40K miniatures and Dark Heresy, though. Why?

kviiri

I remember that one time our sheriff got hit bad in our Savage Worlds game. It's hard to not remember because it took so long with all the "err, so what happens now" going on.

DForck42

@SirTechSpec I played a game a few weeks back. SO MANY DICE

you roll dice... to determine how many dice you roll

and then THAT determines how many dice your opponent rolls

it's absurd, and this is with the newly written rules

one game took 4 hours...

kviiri

SW has a rather unintuitive damage system for people coming from HP based systems, it took us so long to get the knockout blow table and then we had to talk it over again every single time it became relevant because it didn't happen often enough to memorize :)

kviiri

17:04

whew, it's many-o-clock again

I would've loved to gush about a one-off I'm planning but that'll have to wait now :P

DForck42

17:31

@kviiri lol

DForck42

20:17

for those of you that run 5e: do you run the flanking rule variant? why or why not?

NautArch

@DForck42 we do

it's biggest issue is that there are a lot of things that trigger off of advantage. and this makes it easier to get.

DForck42

@NautArch do you see that as a positive, a negative, or neutral?

Adam

@DForck42 I played in one game that did and one game that didn't. I preferred the game that didn't, and so continue not to use the flanking rule during the games I run

NautArch

@DForck42 depends on your thoughts on triggering those effects :)

DForck42

@Adam what about it made you not prefer it?

I kind of think it makes combat a bit more static, and encourages players to close the gap too fast

NautArch

20:23

It can make the PCs feel more powerful, or the enemies feel more threatening. BUt overall, we like it when we get to do the fun stuff that characters can do, and this means more of it.

Adam

@DForck42 I felt that when we didn't play with flanking, the other players and I improvised more in combat, or tried different things which led to a more satisfying experience. Additionally, I never liked how flanking basically negates the help action in combat. Flanking also negates the threat of creatures that have pack tactics, which is often the signature trait of such enemies.

It just seemed like combat was dumbed down a lot. Flanking was too good to justify not doing it, which just made everything stale. Advantage lost its charm, and combats all kind of just became really samey. Plus I was craving somebody to come up with something neat to do, but advantage is just too good to warrant that

godskook

What's the 5e flanking rule variant?

DForck42

@godskook if you and a friendly creature are on opposite sides of a creature, you gain advantage on melee attacks

basically

NautArch

@Adam I'd probably agree with this.

godskook

I can't speak to the balance in 5e, but 3.5's +2 for flanking rule was perfectly fine for me and my games, and I'd REALLY hate to see it go.

5e runs off smaller numbers, and Advantage is more powerful, but my 3.5 instincts suggest that this rule would be fine in 5e, unless you valued things other than "simulationism" and "challenge" as primary gaming goals.

Although, admittedly, that describes a GREAT proportion of this chat, as far as I've been able to tell.

DForck42

20:37

@godskook lol

NautArch

I think the inherent challenge of getting advantage would be a more interesting mechanic than flanking. Yes, you lose some of the simulationist of doubling up on someone, but I don't think that's a real loss given the rest of 5e rules.

Adam

@NautArch unless you use the help action. That models doubling up on someone pretty well I think

Granted it's a full action to use, which is quite the sacrifice. But it's always an option

GreySage

@godskook A variant where flanking doesn't give advantage, just a flat +2 (or +4 or +5) might work. Then the 'advantage' mechanic is unchanged, but you still get something for fighting smart (and you can stack the 2).

NautArch

@Adam yes, and you have to make that choice. ALso gives familiars, etc. a more useful role.

Adam

@GreySage Advantage in 5e averages out to around +5 as I recall, so going with a flat bonus that high and then allowing it to double up is a bit of an absurd boost to-hit. You'd almost be rolling just to see if you crit.

DForck42

20:49

@Adam I was just doing the math on it cause that's what I remember

it changes the average roll from 10.5 to 14.475

Adam

@DForck42 Sounds about right. If you have advantage on a passive check, you add +5 to the result, so that's the number I use in most cases.

godskook

@GreySage Stacking attack-rolls is DANGEROUS in 5e, so I'd be hesitant to add flat to-hit values into the game except as an adjustment from somewhere else in the game.

DForck42

@Adam well, there's a difference between adding a flat +5 and changing the avg roll to ~14.5

I'd have to do the math, but I'd think it'd be harder for them to fail with a flat +5 than rolling with advantage

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