TRPG General Chat

The Oracle

15:01

0

Q: Tag appearance in our tag warnings is broken; can't read them

Tag markup in our tag warnings is illegible, as you can probably see: The text in those two tags is pale yellow on white and I can only barely make it out. This is the dungeons-and-dragons tag warning. Here's a link that'll help you trigger it: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/ask?tags...

DForck42

also, as a player I'd be pretty pissed if the DM decided to scrap the current system halfway through a game in favor of another system for an arbitrary reason

Adam

I don't think burnout with the system itself (as it sounds like in this case) is an arbitrary reason

kviiri

Yeah, it most definitely is not. Besides, in our group, we've been swapping GMs pretty freely whenever one of us needs more time to do other stuff in life, so it's not like the game has to end there.

DForck42

part of the reason why I've given up on mind's eye society's larp is because they dropped support for nWoD except at Space venues

kviiri

And anyway, it's not impossible that everyone else is getting fed up with the game too and are just too polite to say it :P

DForck42

15:04

@kviiri so WHY are you weary of the system?

Yuuki

Honestly, I would be pretty pissed if the DM decided to scrap the current system halfway through the game in favor of a system I don't know whether or not it was an arbitrary reason.

kviiri

@DForck42 Because it is a handful in terms of mechanic complexity and balancing, and lends itself poorly to gameplay that isn't the traditional sword-and-sorcery action fantasy.

Adam

@Yuuki If the DM was my friend and explained to me that they were not having fun anymore with the system, or were reaching a point where they were having less and less fun the more they play it, I might be disappointed, but I wouldn't be angry at them.

kviiri

@Yuuki Well, if I'm terminating the campaign, I'm doing it in a sensible wrap-up manner (the next session was supposedto be the "Season Finale" anyway) and look up a substitute GM to run the next half of the campaign.

Yuuki

@Adam Well, given that I currently have no friends locally, it's very unlikely that any theoretical DM is my friend :P

kviiri

15:08

In the "substitute GM" case I'm just worried they won't do justice to my vision :P

Yuuki

All of my friends are currently out-of-state or overseas.

Adam

Just saying "the game is dead, sorry guys. I'm done." is in bad taste for sure and I wouldn't recommend doing that, but talking to your players about how you feel is part of a healthy gaming experience.

kviiri

Yeah

Yuuki

Screw you, I don't want healthy, I just want to overkill goblins with fireballs over the weekend. /s

DForck42

@kviiri what's your setting?

kviiri

15:10

I think one possible alternative would be to playing a few sessions of something else to cleanse the palate and then pick up with the second part of the campaign.

Adam

Could you suggest to your players that you continue the game in a different system? It's not unheard of for campaigns to shift between systems as time goes on. Likely for exactly this reason

kviiri

@DForck42 Ostensibly Forgotten Realms, but mostly in terms of the cosmology and the races. Otherwise it's a homebrewy generic fantasy world where the players are members of a sort of Mercenary Guild for heroes.

Yuuki

My messages started timing out for a second there. So for a second I thought I was actually banned and some caching thing was going on.

DForck42

@kviiri ok, and what part of that isn't meshing with 5e?

kviiri

As the first part of the campaign ends, they'll be the leaders of said guild. The second part, which I actually brainstormed here, will revolve around an ambitious king going on a conquest spree to recreate a lost empire.

DForck42

15:13

@kviiri system burnout is a bit of a thing, switching it up a little and then going back might help

kviiri

@DForck42 Oh, that much meshes quite well with 5e. I did specifically create this setting to hint new players what the game was going to be about - performing straight-up heroics and adventuring :P

Yuuki

@kviiri They decided to not do that?

kviiri

@Yuuki No, they've been pretty good at the whole adventuring thing so far. Aren't trying to rerail every session into a fishing trip or so like my other party :P

Yuuki

So it's just system burnout then?

kviiri

Yes, if by that you mean I'm fed up with 5e and not the party or the story, yes. The players have been super nice, apart from a few last minute cancellations, but that happens.

Yuuki

15:17

Hmm... then I'd advise to talk with your players about doing one or a couple one-shots in another system.

kviiri

I'd like to introduce Apocalypse World or something to them, maybe between the "seasons" we should play a one-shot.

Yuuki

Switching a campaign from one system to another is, for me, a last resort.

kviiri

Well, I don't know that many appropriate systems anyway. 13th Age seems promising but I don't know it very well and would rather try it with my more, err, "testbenchy" pals, and Dungeon World hasn't really struck me fancy.

Fate is another system I'd love to try but that'd require less DnD-complacent pals :)

William Mariager

Evening

kviiri

Evening!

The mini-campaign in some other system is a very promising idea, I'll bring that to my party

eimyr

17:20

Why can't I search the chat for messages newer than from June this year?

Yuuki

@eimyr I imagine the search engine doesn't index every day since SE prioritizes chat very low on their ladder, but no indexing in 3 months is a bit extreme.

eimyr

yeah...

@Yuuki @doppelgreener @nitsua60 @BESW Any idea?

doppelgreener

17:39

@eimyr I can get messages from before june, maybe they just don't exist for the queries you're trying?

eimyr

@doppelgreener I literally clicked your link and it ends on 8th of May

doppelgreener

@eimyr huh. I see it going back further into April, and there's lots of pages available at the bottom. Maybe it's a diamond mod thing?

eimyr

@doppelgreener wait, no, that's the other way around. I can't get any messages newer than ones from May. So I can search 2012 just fine but not last week.

doppelgreener

d'you see a page thing at the bottom left?

eimyr

Yes...

I click on "1" and it goes to June

oh, wait, July is now the youngest

DForck42

17:44

lol

eimyr

@doppelgreener Are you also experiencing that?

doppelgreener

Nope, August is the youngest for me. Hm.

There do seem to be some recent messages missing.

eimyr

Can we compare a search to see the difference?

doppelgreener

Huh. I just ran a search again and more recent messages got indexed.

maybe it realised it's got some catching up to do :U

NautArch

@Yuuki feat?

doppelgreener

17:52

@NautArch yuuki feat dr. dre; new album out now

eimyr

aaaand now it works

perfect search, accurate to today

doppelgreener

yay

DForck42

query: [dnd5e] if I homebrew that a barbarian can use dex instead for their rage stuff, generally to make it less MAD, would that throw off the balance of the class enough to really matter?

eimyr

bad algorithm! lazy!

Yuuki

@NautArch Charger lets you make a Dash action and attack at the end.

IIRC.

DForck42

17:54

keep in mind I'm intending this character for a 13 year old who's never played

Mike Q

@DForck42 Er... could you give some more context? What system?

DForck42

sorry, dnd 5e

Mike Q

I don't really see the point of that. 5e doesn't demand much optimization, and so MAD generally doesn't hurt as much.

Are they some sort of finesse or bow barbarian?

Yuuki

Plus barbarians get Unarmored Defense, IIRC.

Mike Q

@Yuuki Yep, 5e unarmored barbarians add their CON and DEX modifiers to AC.

doppelgreener

17:59

thinking back to my own new player-ness, i'd probably appreciate having an authentic barbarian so i understand how they feel, rather than be set up with a sort of "cheat" character that teaches me about my class wrong (b/c the stuff i learn for a dex barbarian won't work for future barbarians i might make and I won't understand any other barbarians I see).

if barbarians are problematic enough to need a fix like that, maybe pick out a different introductory class.

NautArch

@Yuuki feeling daft as i try to work on software settings...how does Charger equal ring of the ram?

Yuuki

@NautArch It doesn't, I was just reminded of something that I wanted by the name.

NautArch

@Yuuki oh

Yuuki

I'd love to send my paladin off at RAMMING SPEED.

Mike Q

@Yuuki Team up with a high-strength character who specializes in thrown weapons. Why waste your paladin's movement when your buddy can throw the paladin instead? :P

"The paladin is wielding a sword, and therefore the paladin would count as an improvised throwing knife."

Yuuki

18:07

@MikeQ Yeah but that means I'd do the damage of an improvised throwing knife.

Which is like d3.

nitsua60

@DForck42 My gut says it wouldn't be too much worse than a DEX SAD fighter or rogue--those can draw a lot from a single score.

Mike Q

@Yuuki Yes, the thrower only deals that amount of damage. But the knife itself has paladin class levels, and so it gets to attack separately using Divine Smite.

3

Yuuki

I'M NOT CRYING, YOU'RE CRYING.

user15026

@Yuuki the feels

Mike Q

@Yuuki I don't get it. Is that supposed to be a reference to something else?

DForck42

18:17

@doppelgreener ehh, I dunno if she's really going to care about how a barbarian mechanically works. I just want her to have fun, and making her character a little tougher and hit a little harder will make things easier on her

Yuuki

I guess the question is whether or not you're worried that this initial barbarian experience will influence future play.

Like "what, I did a lot more damage the first time I played a barbarian" or "I never got hit by a 15 on my first barbarian".

DForck42

@Yuuki well I'ma let her know I modified some stuff for her

she'll be like "ok cool lemme kill things"

Yuuki

Mike Q

@DForck42 Well that's the general idea with barbarian. And it was designed for that. You're the DM so you can make homebrew stuff as you see fit, but I don't really see a huge benefit from messing with the class's main feature.

DForck42

ehh

doppelgreener

18:30

@DForck42 oh! well. :) consider my hindsight influenced by ... being hindsight.

DForck42

i'll just leave it as is and let her play with it as is

Mike Q

Plus, the explanation of "Strength is my attack stat and Dex is my defense stat", that seems very easy to follow

doppelgreener

Too Silly - Monty Python

►

Mike Q

18:52

I have a possible opinion/discussion question for folks here.

DForck42

@MikeQ shoot

Mike Q

I'm about to begin a (pathfinder) campaign as GM, and more than of the PCs have such high damage output, that they could reliably kill any enemy in one round. To maintain challenge, would you rather:
A. Prioritize enemy defense. Increase number of enemies, increase their HP, defenses, and so on.
B. Prioritize enemy offense, until most combats are a game of [Rocket Tag](https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70995/whats-the-origin-of-the-game-terminology-rocket-tag). While the PCs could kill an enemy in 1 round, most enemies have this potential as well.

(Obviously, the "best" strategy is a mixture of both A and B, but I'm more curious to hear which yall think is more important of the two.)

And for option B, you could interpret that as "Any player can go from full HP to critically low HP in one round" rather than actual "Everyone is at risk of being killed in one hit"

Adam

I have no real knowledge of pathfinder as a system, but just from a pure encounter design perspective if we assume that the players are fighting creatures that deal enough damage to be challenging if only they got a turn to actually do anything then your goal should be to make sure they get a turn. And to do that, I would say bolstering their defenses would be the way to go

As you say, if we were to increase their offenses instead, it would just reinforce the idea that "whoever wins initiative, wins the combat". If your monsters lose initiative, then we could give them as much extra offense as we want, they'll still just die.

Mike Q

19:13

Pathfinder is D&D 3.5, slightly rebalanced.

Adam

I mean, I know what Pathfinder is. I just don't have experience playing it, analyzing how its rules interact, or the same with 3.5

Mike Q

What about "5e except bigger numbers, more complicated mechanics, and more potential for minmaxing"?

Adam

I understand what it is. I have plenty of friends who tell me about it. All I'm saying is that take my advice with a grain of salt because I don't have experience using that train of thought specifically for pathfinder or its relatives.

Mike Q

Ah, okay. Well yes, I do appreciate the advice! It will be especially fun because the different PCs rely on different ways of maximizing their damage output (e.g. sneak attack vs raw elemental damage), so I can make things more interesting by having enemies with different types of defenses!

GreySage

@MikeQ Just throw golems at them (immune to crits/sneak attacks, immune to most magic, absorb or nullify most elements)

Mike Q

19:19

@GreySage I did jokingly tell one of them that the world was overrun by intelligent oozes

Adam

@MikeQ It's interesting you mention that, because one of my friends at work was saying that his DM had enough of his shenanigans and started throwing a lot more oozes at them.

BESW

21:05

I'm starting to think we may have bitten off more than I can chew with this GS121 campaign, but I can do at least one adventure in it and we'll see.

The system's fine, but the campaign itself is perhaps a touch more complex than is wise for a first outing--I'm researching two cultures AND a historical period AND working in genres I'm not extremely familiar with.

trogdor

@BESW what happened?

ooooooh

I see

BESW

Just working on the first adventure and finding it a bit overwhelming to be doing all that on top of hacking a relatively unfamiliar system from one genre to another.

trogdor

we could table this for a while

I mean, I won't even be back for the next two Saturdays anyway just for starters

and when I do get back we could do something else for a while

BESW

I wanna do GS121, and I was hoping to have the first adventure for you when you got back.

And I like our campaign ideas.

Zachiel

Meanwhyle, my ever-postponing plan to get a hold of the system and rebuild all monsters of a D&D adventure spanning over 10 levels keeps buzzing around my head.

Good evening (or what-have-you) everyone!

BESW

21:17

@trogdor This particular campaign may just have to get postponed until I'm more familiar with the system and you can support me on the research a bit more. While you're gone I'll work up a substitute GS121 to practice hacking it for other genres in a context I'm more familiar with.

Zachiel

The funny part of all this, @BESW, is that GS is the Italian acronym (sort of) for Challenge Rating. And I keep thinking "since when BESW is playing epic D&D 3.x?" every time I see you talking about it.

I say sort of because the acronym would really be GdS, but it's shortened GS in the manuals so that's what we use.

(Backslating it, Rating of Challenge)

BESW

Heh.

trogdor

@BESW it's all fine with me

I just don't want you to think I would push for this after what you have already said

BESW

Thanks for understanding. The campaign we came up with is great, but just a bit much to start with right now.

BTW @doppelgreener re: solarpunk:

But food is a technology. People assume tech has to have wires, but domestication was the first hacking, long before that.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on September 26, 2017 at 5:55 PM in reply to UrsulaV

Yuuki

21:38

@BESW Wasn't tool-making the first hacking if we're going by that definition?

BESW

I think you could get a lot of archaeohistorians arguing over the timeline on that.

The thread is about the need for agricultural biodiversity as a kind of backup system.

Yuuki

Yeah, we can't rely on Svalbard alone.

BESW

Hrmmm. Maybe a GS121 hack of Bubblegumshoe?

THIS WEEK ON PARTY OF ONE, @UncleYo take on THE SECRETS OF CATS, one of @EvilHatOfficial's FATE WORLDS OF ADVENTURE: http://partyofonepodcast.com/96-the-secrets-of-cats-with-uncle-yo

Tweeted by PartyOfOnePod on September 26, 2017 at 1:55 PM

Shalvenay

22:17

hey there @KorvinStarmast and @Yuuki

Ben

22:30

@BESW What was your appropriate "Need caffeine" image again?

BESW

This one, or this one?

And honorable mention to this tweet.

Ben

Yes. The latter

It me

In other news, I'm getting closer to the Reversal Badge

If a question is answered, that means that it won't get removed (unless a mod or delete voted gets cast) after it has been closed, right?

Miniman

23:09

> The system will automatically delete closed (not as a duplicate), unlocked questions with zero or negative score having no positively scored or accepted answers or pending reopen votes, that were closed 9 or more days ago and haven't been edited in the past 9 days.

Ben

Ok. So that's clear.

No time frame set on my badge :P

Miniman

From this fairly comprehensive resource on what causes deletions.

BESW

23:28

@Miniman I have yet to see an unfairly comprehensive resource.

@trogdor How would you feel about my translating Willow Winterpeak into GS121 and us doing some twosies with her?

nitsua60

23:54

@Ben Hmm... I know I'm super-close on one post. Like, one or two votes. But I can't remember which one.

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya.

Shalvenay

how're things going?

nitsua60

Alright. Tired, two things to grade tonight, then a day that's completely booked tomorrow. But we crack open Tomb of Annihilation tomorrow night, so that's excellent to look forward to.

Ben

@nitsua60 Mine is only -3/13... however it does actually have 6 downvotes, 3 upvotes (on the question). The badge rquires the post to have an overall score of -5/20... right?

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