TRPG General Chat

B. S. Morganstein

2:00 PM

@NautArch When did you dip into Warlock?

T.J.L.

@B.S.Morganstein I am very happy with my Lore Bard. She started at L1 and is now a hair's breadth from L5.

B. S. Morganstein

@T.J.L. lore over Valor?

@NautArch Are you lore or valor?

NautArch

@B.S.Morganstein Around 6th level. Lore Bard - it's the shizzz

B. S. Morganstein

Thats so interesting - all my DnD friends told me to go Valor cause its "better"

Yet you both went Lore

NautArch

Started at Level 1, now Bard 11/Warlock 2.

B. S. Morganstein

2:01 PM

I'll have to read into it some more

T.J.L.

@B.S.Morganstein She's primarily a support caster, plus I wanted the extra skills. I'm really looking forward to the off-class spells. Bards are one of the best counterspellers, other than Abjurers.

B. S. Morganstein

@T.J.L. Yeah you could pick up ranger or even paladin spells

pretty cool stuff

NautArch

@T.J.L. Same here. I wanted to have a tool for every occasion.

@B.S.Morganstein For my 10th level magical secrets, I picked up Destructive Wave from the Paladin list.

T.J.L.

@NautArch What did you take at 6th?

NautArch

Paladins don't get it until late game and it's pretty sweet.

Adam

2:03 PM

@B.S.Morganstein I've never played bard, but based on @NautArch's comment, I imagine the extra magical secrets are pretty good.

NautArch

@T.J.L. fireball and counterspell. NOt too imaginative, but those are go-tos nearly every encounter.

T.J.L.

@NautArch I was planning on Revivify and Counterspell.

B. S. Morganstein

@NautArch Whoah, thats crazy. 10d6 and knocked down on a failed save?

NautArch

@B.S.Morganstein yup, and you can pick who it happens to.

B. S. Morganstein

How many level 5 slots do you have?

godskook

2:04 PM

@B.S.Morganstein did you see this?

16 hours ago, by godskook

So....my D&D group came up with an awesome new fantasy animal: The Dire Battle Ram(Huge-sized sheep). Trained much like Elephants by the tribes of the foo race, these massive beasts provide many of the usual benefits of an Elephant of equal size. Where they differ is in Wool production. A Dire Battle Ram produces significant wool growth year round, allowing trained groomsman to sheer year-round wool, despite the frigid climates these Rams normally call home.

This unusual feature also provides a battle function, as the Wool of a Dire Battle Ram is thick enough to hide a number of medium…

NautArch

@B.S.Morganstein 2 5th level slots.

B. S. Morganstein

@godskook No I missed that - looks cool

NautArch

But I'm not sure if I"d do the dip again. Delaying Bard progression, especially Lore, is a tough pill to swallow.

B. S. Morganstein

@NautArch But you got eldritch blast

Adam

You can take magic initiate to get eldritch blast too though I think

T.J.L.

2:05 PM

@NautArch I plan to take mine to L6, then swing over to Sorceror... primarily for plot reasons.

NautArch

@B.S.Morganstein Yes, and Mage Armor :)

B. S. Morganstein

@NautArch Thats a nice little combination

I wouldn't be mad :P

NautArch

@T.J.L. I mostly took Warlock for plot reasons. He had seen the power of our Bane War Cleric and wanted a taste. Had also gotten a CLI Lyre that he didn't want to ever put down, so being able to attack without any weapons and keep on strummin' was a big reason.

godskook

@B.S.Morganstein I need to ask a biologist or something about what implications are inherent in having that much wool.

B. S. Morganstein

@godskook Lol yeah

@NautArch @T.J.L. Any general advice for building a lore bard?

race, background, etc

weapons, armour, the usual stuff

godskook

2:08 PM

@B.S.Morganstein also, I need to figure out the best race for this as a tribe who keeps these guys.

NautArch

@B.S.Morganstein Half-elf is pretty sweet. Are you point-buy or roll stats?

kviiri

@B.S.Morganstein Half-elf is a good choice. It's a generally strong race and has good Charisma, which is your spellcasting aptitude.

B. S. Morganstein

@NautArch I think we have the choice, though I usually roll. I like to live life on the edge :P

nwp

I'm always afraid rolling stats will produce bad results for someone and then they don't want to play anymore. Probably never actually happens.

kviiri

@B.S.Morganstein Background isn't usually important, the benefits are fairly minor. Pick one that suits your RP the best.

T.J.L.

2:10 PM

@B.S.Morganstein Backgrounds are mostly irrelevant, because Lore Bards get plenty of skills. Pick one you like for story purposes. Half-Elf is a good choice for race, because of the CHA bump and general social acceptance, mine is a Yuan-Ti though.

NautArch

@B.S.Morganstein we do the 7 X 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest. SO our stats are pretty good. My bard rolled crazy good :)

godskook

@nwp I'm almost 100% certain this has happened at least once. The world is too big for such a plausible scenario to never happen by now.

T.J.L.

@NautArch I had a Star Wars Saga Edition game that used rolled stats. My character was far and away better at everything than every other character due to good rolls. It was a miserable experience for all involved.

I think my summed bonuses were like... +14 or something like that. The next best character was +9.

NautArch

@T.J.L. That's the nice thing with 5e. Even with crazy rolls, there isn't that much of a functional difference.

Adam

@nwp I find that only happens when the DM forces them to play a character that clearly should not be an adventurer. Like if after applying all of your bonuses, you have no stat above a +1 or something.

NautArch

2:15 PM

@nwp We've also been prepping our 3d6 straight stats campaign (which I think will happen, but not actually positive) There are some outliers there (again, I rolled I pretty good)

T.J.L.

The only rolling method I've ever really cared for was back in AD&D, from Skills & Powers, I think. They called it "organic". It was 4d6-drop-lowest in order. You could the reroll any one completely (taking either) and swap any pair.

nwp

@Adam I don't know the balance for that. You can't do "reroll until you are happy with your stats" either.

T.J.L.

That way, you could always have the high stat where you wanted it, but you didn't have complete control. That way, you could end up with say... a Wizard with his second highest stat being Strength, because he's just a big guy.

BanjoFox

I've played in games with rolled stats where we dropped the highest and lowest. That gave a fairly median balance overall

Adam

@nwp It's a problem that everyone back to Gygax tried to fix. The most common options I see though are standard arrays, point buys, or arbitrary rules like "You can mulligan if your character has two negative modifiers, or if no stat is 15 or above"

nitsua60

2:17 PM

@NautArch I had someone come to my table and propose that scheme. I laughed, then realized they were serious. So I came back with "how 'bout you save us all the time and just name your stats?"

(I was serious.)

T.J.L.

I'm a big fan of point buy.

nwp

I'm a fan of the standard array. Guaranteed fairness and balance as well as player agency (which dice take away).

NautArch

@nitsua60 It makes for some powerful characters, but as we're a combat group it really doesn't make that much of a difference for us. We're all having fun.

nwp

Although I can see that getting boring eventually after having created many characters.

B. S. Morganstein

@NautArch I think we usually just reroll the 1s

NautArch

2:19 PM

@T.J.L. I did try and convince the group to do a point-buy so that the stats are amore even playing field, but it was shut down. Because of dice rolling :)

Adam

@nwp I heard that there were variant options in AD&D where you would roll, like, 8 or 9 dice for your prime requisite, but only 3 dice for your weaker ones. Like a Magic User would roll 9d6 take highest 3 for int, but only 3d6 for con.

nitsua60

@B.S.Morganstein I've never understood this--it's 1d5+1. Why spend the time rerolling?

BanjoFox

@nitsua60 1d5?

nitsua60

@Adam "Gather 'round, kids..." [I just happened to be looking at ability score schemes in 1e and 2e last night.]

nwp

@nitsua60 Because reroll is faster than dividing by 2? :P

B. S. Morganstein

2:21 PM

@nitsua60 I dunno, its just the way my local game shop does it I guess

Adam

Or you could go the route of OD&D where the DM rolled your stats for you behind the screen and told you what they were.

T.J.L.

@Adam Skills & Powers had five or six additional methods, beyond the ones in the AD&D PHB.

Szega

@B.S.Morganstein I do not get why they try to restrict the rolls so much if you want to roll. All these rules just make the result more consistent, which you can get perfectly well with point buy

nitsua60

1e: PHB has no rules for rolling abilities, it refers you to your DM, who will consult DMG. DMG has 4 methods: (I) 6 x (4d6k3) arranged as desired; (II) 12 x (3d6) arrange six as desired; (III) 6 x 3d6 in order; (IV) 12 x (6 x 3d6 in order), choose the resulting character you like best.

NautArch

@B.S.Morganstein AL doesn't have a required stat system?

T.J.L.

2:24 PM

@NautArch AL is point buy or standard array (which is basically point buy, because the SA fits PB).

nitsua60

@T.J.L. S&P is a 2e product. (I'm getting there.)

godskook

@nitsua60 4d6k3???? k3? Kill 3?

nitsua60

keep 3

B. S. Morganstein

@NautArch I'm not playing AL, just a regular 5e campaign

godskook

Ah, keep

Weird

NautArch

2:26 PM

@B.S.Morganstein ah.

godskook

I always see it as 4d6b3, as in "best 3"

T.J.L.

@godskook Keep, a notation common in some of AEG's games. 5k4 means "Roll five dice and keep 4". In the case of AEG's titles, they're always D10s so it's not specified.

Adam

I've seen some people denote things like 4d6d1 for roll 4d6 and drop 1. To me though, that looks like they're saying roll (4d6) 1-sided dice

T.J.L.

@Adam Potentially ambiguous and/or confusing, because the "d" has other meanings.

jwacalex

and there might be a parsing mistake

nitsua60

2:28 PM

2e: moves score-generation schemes to PHB. (I) 3d6 down the line; (II) 2 x (3d6) for each stat, choosing the higher one, down the line of stats; (III) 6 x 3d6, assigned as desired; (IV) 12 x 3d6, assigned as desired; (V) 6 x 4d6k3, assigned as desired; (VI) all stats start at 8, roll 7d6, assign die results (in their totalities) to stats as desired. DMG contains commentary/analysis on each.

godskook

@nitsua60 For method VI, could you get a 50 stat that way?

T.J.L.

@godskook IIRC, it wouldn't have done you any good in AD&D2; the charts didn't go that high.

godskook

CHARTS!

nitsua60

2.5e (Skills & Powers): (I)-(VI) as in 2e. (VII) 75-point buy, no scores outside 3-18 range; (VIII) allot 24d6 among your scores, each score must have between 3 and 6 dice assigned it, then roll, keeping highest three for each stat; (IX) 2d6 roll on a table to determine the number of points available in a point-buy; (X) character points, which is a whole other can of worms. (And then we get into the twelve subabilities....)

godskook

My one weakness.

nitsua60

2:32 PM

@godskook Sorry, no. You can only get an 18 if some subset of the 7 dice add exactly to 10, and nothing can go above 18.

@T.J.L. charts went up to 25

T.J.L.

@nitsua60 Sounds right.

With that stupid percentile stuff in the middle of the Strength chart.

nitsua60

@T.J.L. Deities and Demigods was the first time I saw scores in the 20s.

@T.J.L. I dunno... there was something about asymptotically approaching STR19 that felt right?

T.J.L.

@nitsua60 In honesty, nothing in AD&D2E felt right to me. I disliked that one stat had a different progression than others. I disliked the fact that some things were higher-is-better and others were lower-is-better. I moved on to other things, and only came back to D&D briefly during the 3.0/3.5 era. I got turned off by the glut of product (while understanding how it was good for the industry as a whole). I skipped 4E entirely, and have only been playing 5E for about a year.

nitsua60

@T.J.L. That's all fair. I don't recall ever playing a character that got into percentile strengths, so it didn't have the occasion to bother me =)

BanjoFox

THAC0 :D

T.J.L.

2:43 PM

@BanjoFox I'm sorry... I couldn't hear you. What was that?

BanjoFox

But seriously.. AD&D was my introduction to roleplaying and it somewhat ruined the genre for me.

nitsua60

@BanjoFox I had zero problems with THAC0. Dunno why--I guess subtraction never bothered me =)

T.J.L.

@nitsua60 You had... zero problems with it? ;)

I think zero is the problem with it.

BanjoFox

@nitsua60 -- I liked THAC0 but I think being a newb trying to run a game from the boxed version was the wrong way to start out :)

Adam

@nitsua60 It just seems counter intuitive to me. If I'm more armored, my armor class goes down. But I need to roll bigger numbers to hit smaller ACs.

kviiri

2:46 PM

@BanjoFox I think that's a problem that will always plague DnD. The creators are too shy to tell the GM to do things.

T.J.L.

@Adam That was my objection... It was counter-intuitive. That was my favorite thing about 3rd Ed - bigger is better for me, as long as it's my bigger.

nitsua60

@Adam You have bad armor? That's third- or fourth-class armor. I've got great--first-class--armor.

BanjoFox

@kviiri -- It was more of an "how the hell do I teach people how to roleplay when I barely know myself" ;)

nitsua60

Btw, I totally agree that reversing ACs and roll-under stat checks to unify the d20 mechanic made complete sense, in terms of making the game playable.

I just point out that each of the things we're lambasting had their own perfectly sound logic. (They just didn't end up creating a terribly-coherent whole.)

kviiri

@BanjoFox DnD is less than ideal for that as well.

I'll have to leave now. I biked to work today, it's good fun but sadly has the disadvantage I can't keep up with the best RPG chat there is while traveling :<

Catch y'all later.

BanjoFox

2:49 PM

cya

Adam

@nitsua60 I mean, yeah conceptually I understand that. Nor do I really have a problem with it. But it just seems needlessly complicated to say "Your lower class armor (which can get into the negatives) requires a higher to-hit roll to...well...hit. So we need to make a system to translate big numbers against little numbers"

B. S. Morganstein

Another request for general advice: how would one play lawful evil? This is the only alignment I have trouble envisioning

nwp

@kviiri Where can I find that? I want to join.

nitsua60

Remember that these were people who managed to reduce combat to only four pages of tables--this is a serious improvement over the wargames from which it evolved.

Adam

Compared to just "you roll this number or more, and you hit"

T.J.L.

2:50 PM

@B.S.Morganstein Lawful evil characters have a code - it may not be the code of everybody around them, but it does exist. The primary distinguishing factor of their behavior is selfishness. They will lie, cheat, and steal if it betters them and they can get away with it.

BanjoFox

@B.S.Morganstein -- Try these Alignment Charts

Adam

@B.S.Morganstein Alternatively, "I believe in law and order. People need order. And I will be at the top of that order. By any means necessary"

T.J.L.

One good thought to use for an LE character to make them work in a group is that people are tools... but a good craftsman takes care of their tools. My aforementioned Yuan-Ti bard is LE, and everybody in the group likes her and gets along with her.

nitsua60

@Adam believe it or not, THAC0 was a huge simplification over 1e. It unified a ahndful of lookups into one number. Admittedly, that number was not intuitive for most people.

T.J.L.

@Adam Not very different from what I said, really. That's a code, and it's selfish.

nitsua60

2:51 PM

(Which is where the 2e --> 3e transition to a unified d20 mechanic really shines.)

B. S. Morganstein

@T.J.L. Yeah I was thinking a lawful evil bard could be fun. Sort of the master behind the scenes

Adam

@nitsua60 I would believe it. I'm looking back on the hobby with 40 years of development. Of course after that long there are things now that seems silly.

nitsua60

Mar 2 '16 at 19:49, by AncientSwordRage

BanjoFox

"I'm doing this one way or another. Your just making it really difficult" XD

B. S. Morganstein

@BanjoFox Yeah I saw that

Adam

2:55 PM

@BanjoFox Because we need even more alignments to try and codify :p

B. S. Morganstein

So what would distinguish LE from CE? If they're both selfish, is it just that LE has a code and is selfish, whereas CE has no code, and will do whatever it takes?

godskook

@B.S.Morganstein Depends?

B. S. Morganstein

Like if they're both selfish, evil, and willing to use others, whats the real difference?

nwp

@B.S.Morganstein I'm imagining Darth Vader to be lawful evil. Killing imperials is bad, killing rebels is good. Which is one of the reasons why an officer can tell him to let go of the other officer he is about to force-choke to death. Having a star destroyer at his disposal is worth not killing everyone.

BanjoFox

Chaotic Evil - I don't really have a plan until after its done.

T.J.L.

2:55 PM

@B.S.Morganstein Chaotic Evil is uncontrolled; they don't have a code.

godskook

If you go by pact primeval lore, Asmodeus is still "fighting the good fight", aka "doing the dirty work" for the LG gods.

Its very weird in that sense.

nwp

Chaotic Evil would be the joker. It doesn't matter if you are a police officer or a robber, you got a 50/50 chance to die. Probably decided by a coin.

B. S. Morganstein

@nwp so CE would be 2-face

Yuuki

@nwp Uhh... I think you're confusing the Joker with Two-Face.

Adam

@B.S.Morganstein A good way to think about it, I think, is that a Lawful character is an agent of law. They believe in rules and a hierarchy, and actively work to create or protect that hierarchy. Chaotic characters are agents of chaos. They want to tear down the establishment. They actively work to break the rules. And neutral characters don't worry themselves with law or chaos at all

BanjoFox

2:57 PM

@nwp -- Joker is a pretty classic example of CE

nitsua60

@B.S.Morganstein Somebody who's following the rules that you think are wrong. They're LE.

Yuuki

@nwp From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!

Adam

@Yuuki The sith are actually a pretty good example of LE I think.

B. S. Morganstein

@Adam @nitsua60 I think I understand

godskook

A lot of people tend to view Good/Evil as an alignment of opposition and Law/Chaos as an alignment that can far more easily get along, and I think that's rather contrary to at least the 3.5 take on alignment. Lawful people are going to generally despise Chaotic people as much or more than Good people despise Evil people.

BanjoFox

2:58 PM

@nitsua60 -- I just realized that according to your example. I am Neutral Evil XD

Yuuki

@Adam Depends on the Sith. Malgus, Vader, Palpatine, maybe. Nihilus is either Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil.

Probably Neutral Evil.

godskook

@nitsua60 Why is Santa Claus CN?

nitsua60

@B.S.Morganstein I hate to fall to Godwin's Law, but your average front-line SS officer is the typical example of LE. They're just doing their job, keeping things running, taking home a paycheck. (Lawful.) Doing horrible things. (Evil.)

@godskook Have you ever tried to manage three kids when dozens of presents and overindulgent grandparents are around? =D

nwp

@nitsua60 I'd say that applies to all soldiers that have not been forced into service.

Yuuki

@B.S.Morganstein I think Two-Face might be Lawful Evil (he'll obey the results of the coin flip even if it isn't what he wants) except in some depictions (kills person even if the coin flip says no).

Adam

3:01 PM

@Yuuki Just keep flipping the coin till it comes up yes

godskook

@nitsua60 Sounds like a light duty.

nitsua60

@nwp I think it's safe to say that not everyone thinks that all volunteer soldiers are evil, so I'll just back away from that one.

BanjoFox

@Adam -- But he is still generally bound by the "law" of the coin

Yuuki

@nitsua60 See, I always wondered if Good-Evil depended on actions or intent.

3:02 PM

@Yuuki Sorry, are we talking real-world or in-game?

Yuuki

@nitsua60 In-game, I guess?

nitsua60

@Yuuki Which game? (It's changed radically through editions.)

godskook

@nitsua60 I'm the 2nd oldest of 8, and my Mom was psychotic about making Christmas enjoyable. And I had to help more than a few years. My best friend growing up was the 4th oldest of 9, and we sometimes did holidays and vacations together.

Yuuki

The... one we're currently talking about?

godskook

@nitsua60 I've also volunteered with inner-city Chicago kids, taking them camping, for years.

BanjoFox

3:04 PM

@nitsua60 The definition of alignment has CHANGED through various DnD Editions? o.O

nitsua60

@Yuuki I'm not sure I know. The alignment talk all started with this:

14 mins ago, by B. S. Morganstein

Another request for general advice: how would one play lawful evil? This is the only alignment I have trouble envisioning

@B.S.Morganstein what game?

nwp

everything by BS so far has been about 5e

B. S. Morganstein

@nitsua60 DnD 5e

nitsua60

Oh, then play it however you want. 5e alignment's vestigal, IMO. I thought you were talking about a game that actually had alignment.

NautArch

@nitsua60 zing!

Adam

3:07 PM

@nitsua60 Sick burns. When I get home, I'm gonna slather my phb in aloe

nitsua60

Didn't mean it that way =\

B. S. Morganstein

@nitsua60 You aren't wrong, but in the past my group has had some alignment-related issues

Which is why I ask

(see my previous questions on alignment if you want more info)

T.J.L.

@B.S.Morganstein In previous editions, Alignment had some rules effects behind it - for instance, in 3E it affected which deities you could pick and which spells you could cast.

In 5E, there aren't any.

nwp

I like the descriptive rather than prescriptive definition of alignment in that players are free to choose whatever they want no matter their alignment. Alignment is just a very crude reading of ones general behavior.

B. S. Morganstein

@T.J.L. YEAH, AND THERE ARENT CLASS RESTRICTIONS FOR ALIGNMENT ANYMORE afaik

sorry caps

nwp

3:10 PM

don't apologize, edit it

Yuuki

Just treat it like Fallout: New Vegas. Alignment really doesn't matter except for like two perks and most social interaction is based off of a faction reputation system.

godskook

@B.S.Morganstein youtube.com/watch?v=rxcTDoE_Kbg The antagonist in this feels very LE, and Malcolm is a go-to example of CG imho, so you can get some really nice feel of it.

jwacalex

@B.S.Morganstein there is a nice saying about alignment: "if you use evil alignment as a justification to act like a jerk, it's no issue about the alignment but about the player itself"

4

Adam

@T.J.L. Not entirely true. Several magic items can only be attuned to creatures of a certain alignment. And others, many of them sentient or artifact level to be fair, will attempt to forcibly change your alignment if you attune to them.

B. S. Morganstein

@jwacalex Thanks!

jwacalex

3:12 PM

@B.S.Morganstein either as player or as dm i use this as guideline how a certain character would act and consider things in focus of society.

Anne Aunyme

what is the problem with Lawful Evil?

T.J.L.

@AnneAunyme No problem, just discussing what it means.

nitsua60

@Adam Yeah, 5e has put alignment into this weird spot where the sensible route to take is to leave that bit of your charsheet blank until you meet your first magic item that cares.

Adam

In all fairness, many of those magic items have versions for every alignment, so you can, in most circumstances, end up just giving your players either something they can't use, or you give them the version that fits their alignment.

Anne Aunyme

@T.J.L. seems clear enough to me.

T.J.L.

3:14 PM

@AnneAunyme And it obviously doesn't to the person who was asking for advice about it.

Anne Aunyme

yes, that's why I am wondering what is the problematic point

you can sum it up grossly as "villain with standards"

nwp

25 mins ago, by B. S. Morganstein

Another request for general advice: how would one play lawful evil? This is the only alignment I have trouble envisioning

jwacalex

some people might be fanatic about it

Evil alignment? Not in my campaign

NautArch

that's one thing I dislike aout my table. Evil/neutral alignments being excuses for jerks to be jerks.

nwp

I would not have expected jerks to need an excuse to be a jerk.

jwacalex

3:18 PM

and that's the main issue. but to be honest it's possible to play with good alignment like a jerk too. been there, done that. just to prove this point

NautArch

@nwp because they want to feel justified

Anne Aunyme

typically if your goal is to take loot from a dungeon the lawful evil can do some administrative tricks to get the ownership of the dungeon in the legal way

jwacalex

@AnneAunyme and if not, they can "resolve" the issue by other means.

Anne Aunyme

of course

T.J.L.

@NautArch Yeah... My lawful evil bard is actually the nicest character in the group. It's a you-get-more-with-honey-than-vinegar kind of thing.

Yuuki

3:19 PM

Evil alignments shouldn't protect players for being jerks any more than an evil alignment prevents goblins and the BBEG from players.

NautArch

One of the players (who is our GM in the main campaign), has played two nearly identical jerk characters. His current one likes to gamble. I like to use cutting words when he does so he loses.

Anne Aunyme

it seems like you are playing a jerk too

BanjoFox

OffTopic(ish) -- Escaping Prison Playing D&D

NautArch

@AnneAunyme mostly in reaction to his jerkiness. It's a vicious cycle.

but i'll stop, because I feel I'm veering into Not Nice.

Anne Aunyme

I have a similar problem in a current campaign, so I can relate

jwacalex

3:25 PM

hmm?

Anne Aunyme

one of the PCs does stuff that is more and more evil

nwp

I think you are supposed to be a jerk back ~80% of the time. Can't not react because then people can be jerks without consequences and can't do it 100% of the time because you end up in infinite circles of jerking.

Anne Aunyme

the last thing she did was corpse profanation to rob a 100gp necklace (we play 10th level PC in Pathfinder, so 100gp is close to nothing for us)

another one is starting to cast Domination on everyone

Adam

The only real jerk move that's happened in my game so far is that one of the players disagreed with the others that they should fight a dragon. Everyone else was super excited to do it, but the last one threatened to basically walk off into the dark to die alone if they did. It was a pretty mean spirited thing to do.

So the rest were forced to skip the dragon fight, because without a full team, they felt that everyone was doomed. It was pretty disappointing all around. It was just a wyrmling too, and they had just finished a long rest, so all together they should have easily been able to take it out.

Anne Aunyme

ok, your story seems more jerky than mine

jwacalex

3:29 PM

@AnneAunyme could result either in interesting group dynamics or in a snafu :D

nwp

@AnneAunyme I would consider spell casting roughly equivalent to sword swinging. People do not react kindly to that.

Anne Aunyme

snafu?

NautArch

@AnneAunyme Situation Normal: All F'd Up

Anne Aunyme

@nwp it's always during fights, but I mean in every fight even if the opponent is clearly weaker and could be reasoned with

nwp

@AnneAunyme Seems like someone skipped a step in the escalation list. You try Persuation and then Intimidation and then Charm/Dominate and then you hit them in the face.

jwacalex

3:33 PM

but i can relate to your problems. currently i'm playing bit evil / very pragmatic character and i try not to cross the line between selling the party and follow the concepts. we had situations that nearly escalated because "my character would not do that"

Anne Aunyme

@nwp actually it's more Persuasion -> Charm/Dominate -> They attack -> We have to defend ourselves

except that Persuasion is skipped

because it is easier to directly Charm

nitsua60

@AnneAunyme sounds expensive, in terms of spell slots...?

nwp

But charming takes resources. It might make sense talking about a general plan for handling encounters to preserve resources.

Anne Aunyme

The GM is usually wery generous with the number of encounters per day, so the spell slots are not really precious

nwp

Also charm wears off eventually and then people get angry. Persuation/Intimidation doesn't have that limitation.

nitsua60

3:38 PM

@AnneAunyme [grumble grumble]

=)

Yuuki

Maybe because I don't live in a world with mind-affecting magic but passing out Dominate Persons willy-nilly seems like the kind of thing that would net you a lot of enemies.

godskook

@Yuuki Please take your happy pills, citizen!

Anne Aunyme

(actually it depends, but the last sessions were full of long travels without many encounters)

godskook

@nwp I assure you, Persuasion/Intimidation have that limitation IRL

nwp

I'm considering not trying to get in at least 6 encounters per long rest and instead handing out good weapons to keep the balance between spell casters and melee characters that way.

KorvinStarmast

3:42 PM

Oh dear, I am getting the idea that Warlocks don't have Detect Thoughts on their spell list. Makes no sense to me, given how warlock's are presented in the PHB class description. (I am using SRD, which is an incomplete spell list). Do Warlocks of GOO have detect thoughts as a Patron / Pact spell?

nwp

It's probably on the Great Old One spell list.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast GOO Warlocks have it, yep.

I happened to have my PHB open on the correct page ;)

nwp

oh, now I know what GOO stands for -.-

kviiri

Gosmic Ominous Oaf

KorvinStarmast

Ah, OK, glad to know that. I am puzzled at why a generic warlock won't have it. (Maybe copy it into pact of the tome book?)

NautArch

3:44 PM

@KorvinStarmast standard spell list doesn't seem to have ANY detect spells for the warlock.

Anne Aunyme

Gross Onion Ogre

KorvinStarmast

Good Old Orville

Yuuki

@nwp Gelatinous Organic Ooze.

GOO Organized Object

And then recurse indefinitely.

Anne Aunyme

GOO Object Oriented?

BanjoFox

Giant Ominous Object, Great Old One

Yuuki

3:52 PM

Ghonestly Oi'm Odone

3

BanjoFox

lol

KorvinStarmast

Generally Object Oriented

Generally Orifice Obsessed (something like anal retentive ...)

@NautArch Yeah, that's weird, though an invocation give you unlimited detect magic.

NautArch

Gentrified Occidental Opulence (western new money)

Anne Aunyme

Without any relation, do someone know about any tool to draw heraldic stuff? I mean a software or website. I am not looking for anything too complex

BanjoFox

2

Q: Can a kitsune's tail be prehensile?

I know other tailed races like kobolds and tieflings have feats and abilities that let them use their tails for things like retrieving items from a pouch. Is there a way for a kitsune to gain the ability to do something similar? If there is, and they get the Magical Tail feat(s), could they ho...

pathfinder

Thoughts?

and isn't this question about "shopping" which is borderline?

2

Q: DMG or Monster Manual?

This is my first time DMing. I was wondering which core book I should get first (I already have the PHB). I am creating a campaign for four players. I already have some of it, but I would like to have better sources for the rest of the campaign. Which one is more useful?

dnd-5e tools books

nwp

3:58 PM

@BanjoFox I don't like the answer for that.

Anne Aunyme

@BanjoFox I don't think it is a quality answer, since it doesn't really answer the question

BanjoFox

That was my feeling. Technically it provides a prehensile tail for any character, but it is not a Feat or Ability.

Anne Aunyme

but i don't dislike it enough to downvote it, I guess it can be useful to someone

nwp

Also I feel like pointing out the basic rules and the free adventures (which contain GM advice) would be helpful, but it doesn't really fit the question at all.

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