TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

02:26

@Miniman holy [redacted] 49 answers!

At least "murderous cretins" is number 4; I'd have guessed that was #1.

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

02:49

@Shalvenay Hiya. I assume you not being around last night means social engagement either went really well or really badly; I hope it was good =)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 it went fine -- I got back at about 9:30PM my time and pinged but you had already crashed for the night by then apparently?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Probably... sorry. Next Sunday? Or possibly this Friday or Saturday?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 next Sunday should work much better, yes

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Cool. We'll plan on it.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 alrighty

Miniman

02:57

@nitsua60 Maybe I should've posted this back when recommendations were being discussed.

@nitsua60 Random side note: Wait, what? Level 17?!?!?!!?

nitsua60

@Miniman I don't understand how "biggest pitfalls" has anything more than four answers: (a) over-preparing, (b) under-preparing, (c) railroading, (d) letting players have their rein?

@Miniman Right, so they've still got time to take a level of Sorcerer and pick up that oh-so-important dragon ancestry =)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Well, the second-highest answer includes one you don't mention.

nitsua60

@Miniman (And boldly go where no man has gone before.)

Miniman

@nitsua60 No point, they've got Expertise anyway and it doesn't stack :P

nitsua60

oh, yeah. I actually forgot what my answer to the best-titled question in the place was =)

Miniman

03:04

@nitsua60 Mind you, at this point it's not really a matter of "boosting your Persuasion check" so much as "Rewriting the universe to suit your whims".

nitsua60

@Miniman b/c they're all the way at 17, you mean?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yeah, the Bard spell list isn't the most egregious in this area, but it's still powerful enough to let him have an ancient dragon for a servant without making any kind of check.

nitsua60

I haven't even looked at the high-level bard spells. 'Cause, you know... "bard." And "high-level."

Miniman

@nitsua60 Huh?

BESW

@Miniman See also: playing a different game than the system was designed for.

nitsua60

03:08

@Miniman (I don't really believe in bards. Nor, really, 9th-level spells for PCs. If they want to be world-building then either they should GM or we should be playing a different game.)

BESW

It's Dungeons & Dragons, not My Major-domo is a Dragon.

Miniman

@nitsua60 I completely understand 9th-level spells - I've never taken a campaign past 15, and I doubt I ever will. But what's your beef with bards?

@BESW Well, yeah. But on the other hand, once 9th-level spells are in play, it's more or less guaranteed that you're playing a different game than the system was designed for.

trogdor

@BESW lol

nitsua60

@Miniman I think it's a playstyle, not a class. Then again, I'm still a believer in a three-class system: stick-guy, sparkly-guy, and skill-guy.

(I've recently been moved off of my old, more-restrictive position:

Dec 9 '15 at 4:04, by nitsua60

I'm, frankly, perfectly happy with "sparkle-guy" and "stick-guy" for mechanics

My favorite two players, ever:

Dec 9 '15 at 4:09, by nitsua60

side note: I have a player in my current AL group, character named "Spark LeGai"

Dec 9 '15 at 4:09, by nitsua60

Another player, character named "Sti'kye"

Miniman

@nitsua60 I can accept that it's a playstyle rather than a class, but it's a playstyle that your class system doesn't support.

Adeptus

03:13

@nitsua60 Yay! I like skill-guy. Though at the moment I'm playing sparkle-guy-with-a-stick (aka Cleric)

nitsua60

@Miniman I guess I mean that "what you do" and "how you do it" are orthogonal in my mind, and whether or not one's a bard is all about how you do it; classes tend to tell you what you can do.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Unfortunately, in D&D "how you can do things" is very much a function of "what you can do".

nitsua60

@Miniman Sooth. Wisely, wisely.

All that said, back to the Bd17 trying to snag a dragon... how would you do it?

Glibness lets one "take 15" on a CHA check.

What's a Bd17 up to for CHA: +5? +6 more for proficiency, maybe another +6 for expertise? (Do bards grab expertise?)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Assuming I was going to make a check, I'd combine Glibness with advantage and expertise, and try to give the dragon disadvantage on whatever check the DM made to "resist" Persuasion.

nitsua60

So we're at 32 on the unadvantaged, glib persuasion roll.

Miniman

03:18

But I'm skeptical of that approach, given that it basically boils down to the DM deciding whether or not I succeed anyway - it's essentially the same as just roleplaying it.

nitsua60

Unfortunately, the ancient gold dragon's also got a +16 persuasion, so this might actually be interesting =)

Miniman

@nitsua60 That's assuming you "resist" Persuasion using your own Persuasion, which seems a little odd.

nitsua60

With +10 insight the dragon may see right through the bard--without him knowing--and actually turn the tables before Bardy McBardington knows what's happened =)

(I wasn't thinking persuasion contest as much as dragon sees through it, resists, and counter-charms before the bard know what hit them.)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Well, that's very much in line with more traditional dragon stories :)

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon @Anaphory @Adeptus @trogdor @SevenSidedDie @BESW thanks for all the DW advice and thoughts over the past few weeks. Tonight's session of Dungeon World & Dragons went really well, players are hooked and have already ordered copies, and we're going to go ahead and transition fully =)

trogdor

03:25

cool

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 awesome :D

trogdor

@nitsua60 how well did it work to go in with 5e stats?

nitsua60

I think they were a little overpowered, but we'll go back and double-check the numbers now that we've decided to go whole-hog.

trogdor

mm

I figured the numbers may have been too high

nitsua60

OTOH, the starting arrays aren't that far off (15,14,13,12,10,8 for 5e; 16, 15, 13, 12, 9, 8 for DW). 5e characters haven't even gotten an ASI yet, as opposed to the two that DW characters would have had, but 5e had the racial attribute bonuses.

trogdor

03:28

not even knowing 5e itself, or every version of DW, I think D&D stats are generally a little high for DW stuff

nitsua60

I think it's more the modifier scheme (5e: (stat-10)/2 floored; DW=ole 1e/2e stuff) that had a few of their mods high by 1.

trogdor

was there hp discrepancy?

nitsua60

There was a ranger that just annihilated giants with his volleys: we wrote everything down to check whether we'd read everything right.

@trogdor HP would have been awful; went ahead and converted HP. Also AC: gave (DW) armor 2 for medium armor, armor 1 for light armor.

trogdor

mk

Adeptus

Is this the mountainous bronze-age(?) game?

trogdor

03:31

I figured those might be the two worst parts

nitsua60

@Adeptus yuppers.

@trogdor spells would have been tricky, but the party's just (5e) a barbarian, rogue, and ranger.

trogdor

I know for a fact that bringing D&D hp into Monster of the Week would have made a first level wizard look like a brutish lumberjack XD

nitsua60

On the ranger: he had a +3 DEX, which he adds to his volley roll, yes?

trogdor

but that is just one DW thingo

nitsua60

@trogdor yeah, I really like the "bounded HP" idea. 100-hp characters always just seemed like nonsense.

Adeptus

03:33

I still haven't actually played DW, just read the rules a few times. Lacking players and/or opportunity (the other game has 7 players, but when we all get together, it's for that game... and I wouldn't want to run DW as a newbie with that many PCs)

trogdor

@nitsua60 yeah, it's kinda like RPG and video game inflation

nitsua60

@Adeptus I think it'd be really amenable to play-by-chat. everyone chipping into the narration, and occasionally GM calls for a roll. Don't even name the move, just narrate the ~~aftermath~~ outcome.

trogdor

@Adeptus technically, I have only played what amounts to a hack of DW for a litteral monster of the week type story XD

@nitsua60 I am really glad it does exactly what your group wants

D&D is not suited to saying "I wanna do this and this and this and this"

"but you only have so many actions a turn man"

I personally like to be able to refer to mechanics to iron out what I want to do, but for people like your PC's who want to just say what they want their characters to do/try doing, it does seem like DW can work out pretty well

when I was playing Monster of the Week, I was very confused by the mindset of not referring to a mechanic when you want to do something

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, I could really see it working well for that

trogdor

I still liked it, I just was also thrown off tilt a bit by the mindset that was encouraged

nitsua60

03:40

@trogdor I also wonder if my players just annihilated those giants because they were acting more than the giants? It's not like we were taking turns, just sort of flowing. And there's three of them and one of me....

trogdor

mm

nitsua60

But the one hit that one giant got in on the fighter did take half his HP =)

trogdor

I have no idea

if there were multiple giants and they still got more attacks than the giants that is probably not how it was supposed to go

it's cool if it worked for you,... but you might need to say every once in a while "I gotta do something now guys"

nitsua60

Fighter: "I aim my messy, forceful, frighteningly-large, and huge fists at the giant's knee." [roll] "That's a thirteen. I think I pushed his kneecap out the back, through his PCL. Do these giants have PCLs?" [table looks at GM] GM: hmm, don't think the book's got this covered...

trogdor

not like, stopping them EVERY time they try to do something, for sure

but if the monster/enemy wtv is just standing there the whole time while they wail on it that definitely isn't working the way it should XD

@nitsua60 how does he have those modifiers on his fists?

nitsua60

03:44

@trogdor They did set up a good ambush spot, five giants rushed out and one was dropped by the fighter (see above), one got backstabbed for full HP, and the ranger volleyed for full HP.

trogdor

@nitsua60 that works XD

cause those modifiers on his fists are,.. pretty dang ridiculous

nitsua60

@trogdor His fists are his signature weapon, so he chose two enhancements: frighteningly big (+1 damage, +1 weight), then huge (+*messy, + forceful*).

trogdor

at least in Monster of the Week, that many good modifiers on a weapon would not only be really rare, but come with some pretty strong bad ones too

like ones that trigger more monsters showing up

nitsua60

This is all starting move for a fighter.

trogdor

@nitsua60 mk, must just be one of the really big differences between normal DW and the hack I played

nitsua60

03:47

(of course, reach is just "hand")

trogdor

of course

if he also had rocket fists it would be a "loud" weapon

ah, and you just posted a question on DW XD

nitsua60

Ranger had magic weapon cast on his bow (+2 dmg), his animal companion trained for combat (+1 damage), and the companion had ferocity 2 (+2 dmg). So his damage was d8+5!

(That's for emphasis, not five-factorial.)

@trogdor yup... this won't be the last =)

trogdor

I didn't expect it to be

XD

nitsua60

04:03

night, all

trogdor

night

Adeptus

Did the stack go offline for maintenance just then?

Miniman

@Adeptus For me, at least.

Adeptus

...and it's back

trogdor

04:22

I didn't notice anything

but I probably just wasn't looking when it happened

Miniman

@trogdor Well, it looks like it was under 2 minutes, so that's not that weird.

trogdor

yeah

BESW

@nitsua60 Have you ever tried playing Scrolls & Swords?

@nitsua60 Glad to hear it!

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 still catching up on the backlog here, but you're welcome and, more importantly, glad everyone had fun!

is @Miniman around just now? I'm curious about your take on an answer of mine

Joel Harmon

05:01

Unfortunately, I've got to step out.

Anaphory

07:35

@nitsua60 When?

@nitsua60 Sounds like the party was well-prepared and armed up to the gazoo. One of the things I forgot most often in situations like this is to throw in a “Defy Danger” or two.

I don't know how big these giants are in comparison to the party, but one thing to do here is “Show a downside to their class, race, or equipment”: The downside of the HUGE FISTS OF SMASHING is that they are just that, fists (range: hand) – so ‘you really have to get close, and there's huge Giant legs moving about all around you. How do you go about getting close enough to one to fist it?’

abza

08:32

Greetings! I'm a (very) new user to RPG SE (less than a week, in fact) and am really enjoying the community so far. Thanks for the warm welcome!

Anaphory

Hi there!

abza

Quick Q: I’m doing quite a serious bout world-building and have a variety of opinion-based and ideas-generation type questions. I know there's a [World Building](http://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/) SE, but I assume it follows the same strict Q&A style as the RPG site (i.e. no soliciting opinions or ideas).

Basically, where *would* be a good place to generate creative ideas, input, criticism and feedback on world-building concepts, preferably with a userbase as rational, intelligent and well-meaning as those found on RPG SE? I’m looking for somewhere I could ask for ideas and “give bac…

Anaphory

It may change in the future, but my impression is that worldbuilding is not stomping down on more open world-building questions yet. Other than that, I don't know, but others might.

eimyr

@abza Go to WB without hesitation. They are (at least here) considered one of the most lax and relaxed sites policy-wise. You will totally be able to generate ideas, sometimes even unsolicited, as well as use question types like "does this make sense" or "how best to design X"

Anaphory

@nitsua60 This has some space for tweaking:

abza

08:41

@Anaphory , @eimyr - Great, thanks very much! I'll go give WB a look.

Anaphory

It's not stated explicitly, but at my table I would seriously poke for restrictions on the cleric's “Magic Weapon” spell, my default reading (and a cleric might have good arguments against it, but I'd want to hear them) is that it only works for a weapon of the Cleric's. – Or has the Ranger got “God Amidst the Wastes”? Then kudos to him for being prepared and you for running on a high level, and don't forget to find out how he casts his spells.

The animal companion states “…and you attack the same target, add its ferocity to your damage”. This needs to be narrated, and the same thoughts as for the fighter's fist applies – the animal companion does need to get close!

(In which case the giant may or may not be surprised any more, as far as Called Shot goes.)

BESW

@abza If you're looking for something with folks who better understand the RPG context, this chat has its moments.

abza

@BESW - awesome. Yeah, much of what I'm doing relates to how this setting could be shoehorned into 5e with little-to-no rules tweaking, so I may very well pop up here from time to time. Thanks!

BESW

But yes, WB is good for your needs. Each Stack has to adjust its rules a little to match its content and its user base.

Anaphory

@nitsua60 I don't know where the “trained for combat” bit is coming from, but actually this is not supposed to turn into rules-lawyering, but my point wants to be “How can the narrative make this feel less wrong?” – Which it can do either by showing the restrictions, or by showing how awesome the preparation was and therefore how deserved the result.

BESW

08:53

@abza Between everyone here there's a lot of experience to draw on, and a lot of opportunities to pay it back.

(Personally I'm in the early stages of converting a DFRPG campaign to Bubblegumshoe, and someday I'll return to my long-suffering attempt to figure out what engine is best for SG-1.)

eimyr

@BESW What's wrong with this one?

abza

SG-1? Ouch... yeah, it's hard sci-fi, but not too hard (so systems like Traveller, Diaspora are out). It's got feels, isn't ruled by them (FATE and its ilk might be a bit feely). Savage Worlds? Perhaps not crunchy enough. If I stumble across anything I'll give you a shout.

BESW

09:09

The Official SG-1 RPG runs on the d20 System via Spycraft.

This is... a very bad fit.

Fate is my go-to system for most of my games the last couple years, and I could definitely make that work but it doesn't quite feel right.

eimyr

@BESW Powered by Surgadores.

BESW

Low-crunch is fine --maybe even good-- so long as it encourages/supports the kind of storytelling one expects from SG-1.

(I think Fate would be just about perfect for SG:A, though.)

@eimyr No.

eimyr

I don't know anything about SG-1. Or Stargate at all. I just vaguely remember a black dude with a rubber stamp brand on his forehead when one of my roommates was into it.

BESW

SG-1 is about some of the most competent and un-corruptible humans in the world triumphing against overwhelming odds through ingenuity, perseverance, and righteous character, where the most advanced and devious beings in the galaxy had failed.

SG:A is about highly competent but dysfunctional humans mucking things up so hard they come around the other side and somehow manage to succeed anyway (hence Fate).

SG:U is about a random group of totally unsuited people thrown together with every reason to distrust each other, and their simple continued survival is a major victory every episode.

(I kind of imagine SG:U playing out like a hybrid of Fiasco and Great Ork Gods.)

trogdor

09:57

I couldn't even watch much of SGU

and I even sorta liked SG A a bit

SG-1 was definitely the best though

eimyr

I think I only saw some stargate movie back when I was a kid

I don't remember liking it at all.

I think the premise was "bunch of army dudes fight Egyptian god aliens"

trogdor

@eimyr yeah, that was the movie that came out before the show

it was not in the same vein as the show was

eimyr

I see.

@BESW Did you manage to get someone to playtest this for kids rpg thing?

BESW

10:19

@eimyr What?

eimyr

@BESW When I was on vacation I posted a link to a game in need of playtesting

BESW

Oh, that fell through the cracks in my brain.

eimyr

Could you perhaps still try?

@nitsua60 's playtest was very welcome

BESW

I'll see about it later tonight.

eimyr

10:39

thanks

doppelgreener

12:15

@nitsua60 Consider me quite amused by that Horde Breaker Javelin assessment.

1

A: Will Horde Breaker apply to a thrown weapon?

Yup, but it's a little tricky. Your spear or javelin is a weapon, so it qualifies for horde breaker. The tricky bit is that you've got to make your second attack with the same weapon. Not another instance of that type of weapon, but with the same weapon. So after throwing the spear you've got to...

BESW

12:26

@doppelgreener ...tie a rubber band to it.

doppelgreener

@BESW Weapon cord! Of course!

Magician

Don't magic weapons automagically return anymore?

Alternatively, reskin javelin into Captain America's shield.

eimyr

I like how you approve of the idea of your own javelin flying towards you

doppelgreener

@eimyr The blunt end!

eimyr

Aren't javelins designed to fly head-first towards the target just like party barbarians?

Magician

12:31

Cut out the middleman, throw barbarians.

eimyr

throw barbarians throwing javelins

Magician

Er, maybe that's introducing a middleman.

doppelgreener

New prestige class: Party Barbarian.

2

Adventure Time - Party God - 1000 Partying Demons

►

eimyr

doppelgreener

I feel I have to bring up Technoviking here.

Techno Viking (Unedited Original Video)

►

eimyr

12:38

Glrious.

doppelgreener

Were he to have activated his rage, the street would have been levelled by a single man partying with the ferocity of thousand party demons. Thank goodness it didn't come to that.

eimyr

I feel that before the boss encounter with technoviking there should be at least a few mook fights.

OK, I think that's about enough gifs to have @BESW kick my ass back to Trash.

doppelgreener

This is good worldbuilding imo. :D

... of someone's really fun world-to-be.

eimyr

12:55

@doppelgreener ever heard of Brutal Legend?

doppelgreener

13:12

@eimyr I have indeed!

nitsua60

17:22

@BESW Nope. What made you think of it?

nitsua60

17:40

@Anaphory yup. There are definitely a bunch of things--including GM principles& moves--that I didn't really follow through on. (Make a move that follows, expend their resources, think dangerous, separate them, &c.) However, I did remember to "turn their move back on them" when I had the giant that the fighter de-legged fall on top of him =)

This DW question definitely gives me some tips, too.

Anaphory

Cool!

nitsua60

@Anaphory I think part of it is that I was using a pdf from something called "DW hack," which isn't quite official. As you may have heard, I didn't know where to get the starting materials and so when I saw a pdf of character sheets and condensed basic moves by the author I figured it was usable. Didn't ruin anything, but it might be a +1 that didn't need to be there.

@eimyr Kids love it. We play almost every day. They're basically making their own "Magic Tree-House" style adventures with their characters. Is there a working name?

Anaphory

Yep, it's a shame you found it difficult to find the print pdfs.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener It's definitely brought to light some... unusual beliefs some seem to have on the structure of combat =)

@Anaphory Eh, fixed now. In the old days (like when I was playing 1e hot off the shelf) we'd have played witha mis-reading of the rules for years before ever running into someone who knew "better." Brave new world, this one is.

eimyr

@nitsua60 I have no idea. I'll ask on Friday, but it's unlikely there's significantly more than what I linked

nitsua60

17:51

@eimyr Do you know: what's the target audience? If it's active gamers trying to get their kids into it, I think the presentation could be pared back a lot. If it's newbies to the hobby, I'm not sure some things are explained clearly.

eimyr

Again, no idea.

I don't actually know the designer, it's a friend of a friend.

nitsua60

@eimyr ahh... well, I hope word gets back to the designer that we're loving it and appreciate the work.

eimyr

I'll make sure it does

IT is always a great confidence boost to hear enthusiastic reviews.

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon @Anaphory @Adeptus @trogdor @SevenSidedDie @BESW I'll tell you, even if the players had hated it and wanted to stick with 5e, the GM chapters would have completely changed how I prep... everything. (I.e. fronts, moves, portents, monsters, &c.)

eimyr

do I hear another person who is completely changed by reading DW?

Anaphory

17:55

@nitsua60 I have told many a starting GM interested in fantasy to get a copy of DW and study it even if they end up GMing something else in the end.

… or anyone asking for GM advice whom I wouldn't directly point to AW, for that matter.

nitsua60

18:06

In re: modern-day weapons in 5e I like how the DMG doesn't even attempt to put a gp price on shotguns and antimatter rifles =)

Even in the non-economy that is D&D, the thought of pricing laser-blasters in gold is ridiculous.

Anaphory

Well, he's trying to run a zombie apocalypse. Their non-economy is stereotypically different from the one in D&D.

nitsua60

18:46

Worth protecting? It's starting to get "to build off of..." and repetitive answers.

nitsua60

19:22

Flagged for deletion

Anaphory

19:38

As inhabitant of a fantasy theocratic imperilalistic republic – If you could know one sentence, or one line of text, in every foreign language, which one would you pick?

nitsua60

@Anaphory is that in response to this troubling question?

Anaphory

No, it's purely in response to a project I'm working on.

@nitsua60 Seriously?

nitsua60

@Anaphory "Seriously?" As in "did you seriously just link that to me?" in which case "yes, and I'm sorry for punking you" or as in "is this schmuck serious?" in which case I think that can't be deleted off our site fast enough.

Anaphory

The second, or more like “How is it not gone yet?”

nitsua60

I flagged it already, and it's the one I linked seven or eight up.

Also, seriously shouldn't have linked that--it's just weighing on my mind that it's even here. Sorry.

Anaphory

19:53

So, what is a useful sentence, if most PCs will encounter foreigners when the foreigners visit the Imperial capital?

But the sentence does not necessarily need to reflect that, I'm more looking for what looks like a good phrase book sentence.

nitsua60

@Anaphory Oh, I thought it was just curiousity, in which case I'd have said "I love you." Which phrase I've learned in enough languages to be able to say it to my wife, natively, no matter where we are.

@Anaphory For PCs, how about "where is the nearest translator?"

Anaphory

“Please direct me to someone who speaks Imperial.”

It would be cool if it had a use in the field, where, as said, the situation is more likely to be opposite.

Although I could just use a question and a likely answer. “Please direct me to someone who speaks Imperial.” – “Please wait here, I will try to find a translator.” The second phrase is useful In The Field.

nitsua60

20:15

VtC duplicate

Anaphory

You should ask more DW questions so I can answer them and get rep to do that.

nitsua60

@Anaphory They will certainly be coming. Would "what is highlight" work?

Anaphory

Have you encountered the term but missed where it is explained, or do you need to know what it is for, or what is the question?

nitsua60

I've got to admit: I'm being game-y and holding off on asking until midnight passes. I've already got 40-something upvotes worth [0] points this week, and I'm trying to keep @Miniman off my back =)

@Anaphory The term was on character sheets, and I can't find it in the book or the searchable pdf. It's a checkbox next to each stat.

Anaphory

:D

Which time zone's midnight?

nitsua60

20:22

UTC

Oh, good. @SevenSidedDie is doing things on-site. Perhaps he'll save us from User:LIQUID and his repugnant post.

Anaphory

@nitsua60 Iceland, western Africa, or ignoring summer time?

Anyway, that means my answer would come in tomorrow.

nitsua60

@Anaphory Um... the UTC that shows when you click on your "Achievements'" icon and says that right now it's 20:30 =)

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 Ugh, that's the same troll who has been on-again off-again posting implausible social/gross-out/offensive questions. Finger of Death applied.

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie [swoons] my septahedral hero!

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 The joke's on them though—they get themselves nuked often enough and they'll be automatically locked out of the whole network when they try to make a new account. Looking forward to it…

nitsua60

20:35

@SevenSidedDie In the meantime, they're helping me on my way to Marchal; only 287 helpful flags to go!

=)

Patta

I just can't get what would be funny about trolling on the internet. But well, I just seem to "not get it" :D

nitsua60

@Patta So what are your thoughts on your attunement-required magic weapon?

BESW

@nitsua60 It's literally "Sparkle or Stick?"

nitsua60

@BESW aaahhhh... =)

Anaphory

@nitsua60 With all the politicking that game involves, someone just suggested "This person does not necessarily speak for me."

Patta

20:45

@nitsua

wow, sry :D

I should really come here more often to learn how the enter key reacts^^

Anaphory

Not just for that.

nitsua60

@Anaphory that's deliciously passive-aggressive =)

Anaphory

That's what I thought.

Patta

So, now, to answer your question: I would say "if it is a magic weapon, it will be one no matter if you're attuned or not"

but I am unsure if the balancing of 5e accounts for that^^

nitsua60

@Patta ditto @Anaphory. You should come more often for all the BE NICER =)

May 17 at 15:49, by eimyr

@nitsua60 I find this room has a broader BE EVEN NICER rule, which I appreciate a lot.

@Patta I think balance is overrated, personally. If your weapon which, in an hour will certainly overcome resistance, overcomes it now is something really broken?

Patta

20:49

sure, but you could theoretically do fancy stuff like "I attack with that magic sword, and give it to my buddy, who attacks and gives it back" :D

which is the only real "balancing concern" here :D

It was more a question out of curiosity^^

Anaphory

… provide a golden opportunity … Oh wait, wrong system.

nitsua60

@Patta it was interesting to find those two weapons that behave differently than all the rest.

Patta

@Anaphory yes, I was thinking about that, too :D

nitsua60

@Anaphory Except that list of GM moves is definitely sitting in the front of my (5e) Expeditions binder now =)

I think on Saturday a number of strangers are going to see me put them in a place to take advantage of their class feature... or see the weakness inherent in their class =)

Patta

I have to admit that I don't own the Dungeon Masters Guide, as I am not our GM for 5e :D

so I could not take a look at that, but yes, I am a bit confused about how different the magic weapons are from Pathfinder

Anaphory

20:54

@nitsua60 OH WAIT I totally forgot that my own clock is in British Summer Time at the moment even though I'm in NL when comparing my 21:30 to your 20:30.

BESW

re: weapons and their relationship to the person using them, I'm reminded of 4e's attitude that often it's not the item that's special: it's the person using it.

Patta

yes, which makes absolutely no sense in a 5e context for me^^

nitsua60

@BESW similar to how a DW wizard always does d4 on a hack-and-slash, no matter the weapon in their hands? It has a nice throwback feel to my OD&D roots when every weapon did d6 damage. As one of my favorite (OD&D) DMs used to say "a dude trained in murdering people trying to murder you for a minute with a sword and one trying to murder you for a minute with a rock will both murder you."

@Patta It makes absolute sense to me. But then again, I golf in RL =)

Patta

might simply be that in pathfinder, the question never came up, and I never thought about that. And 5e is my first DnD ever, as I started with Pathfinder :D

BESW

Eh, Pathfinder is D&D 3.5 enough as to not matter except to the lawyers.

Patta

20:59

sure, I was more referring to nitsuas comparison to DW and OD&D though ;)

(And Dungeon World continues to be my second favorite system, now that I got a hang of it, only The Dark Eye can beat it :D)

Anaphory

@Patta DSA of all things? That's one I never got on with, but I share your preference of DW.

Curious world.

Patta

I just love the world, above everything else.

Anaphory

Ah. It has quite cool bits in it, true.

BESW

On the other hand... huh. I hadn't thought about it, but D&D magic overall tends to be strongly thing-oriented, which is actually very unusual for a Western magical system. The Magic of Things tends to be more emphasised in, eg, Malian traditions or the African diaspora.

Patta

And I like the rules, but maybe only because it was the first RPG I ever played^^

BESW

21:04

(I appreciate the Apocalypse World Engine for making its playstyle manifesto into its explicit rules, but it's transparent to enough of my own gaming practices no matter what system I'm in that there's little benefit from using it. I prefer to use systems which push my group to do things we want to do but aren't already doing.)

Anaphory

That is a strong factor.

BESW

@Anaphory Bleh. The first RPG I ever played was D&D 3.5 and I have no plans on ever going back.

Patta

and my love to DW probably comes from beeing a big fan of Adam Koebel and the Rollplay Shows he does/his views as a game designer^^

Anaphory

@BESW Slowly getting there!

@BESW Well, some systems just can't be helped ;-P

nitsua60

@BESW So that's an interesting and, I think, not uncommon sentiment. Which brings to mind a question I had the other night and wanted to throw out to the chatizens:

We know a lot of things about all the D&D flavors that don't work well. It's not really good for X/Y/Z, where X/Y/Z are usually the thing that someone's coming here to ask "how do I do this in D&D?"

But, aside from historical import, nostalgia, and widespread network-effect, what are the things D&D's good at?

BESW

21:09

@Anaphory Maybe if I'd run into *World back in my 3.5-only days, it could have significantly shortened my road instead of having to develop those practices on my own. But by the time I met the AWE, I'd already milked 3.5 and 4e for everything they could give me, become disillusioned with the goblin die, figured out why DFRPG is a bad fit for Fate, and come out the other side of Forge games a wiser gamer.

Patta

I never got the grasp on Fate, sadly. Even though I really enjoined the Deponia Role Playing Game :D

@nitsua60 now that is a question... One I don't think anyone can easily answer.

nitsua60

Wait, what!? Your UTC and my UTC are different? [flips clock]
I'm quitting and adopting @BESW's standard:

BESW

@nitsua60 Player-sided character creation/advancement complexity.

nitsua60

Jun 2 at 0:56, by BESW

Subject-oriented time zones.

@BESW If I'm reading you right, I think that's the same thing that popped to the top of my list. In my words, "the solitaire game."

BESW

Yup.

It's why I've introduced Trogdor to Wizardry 8 now that we're playing less solitare-friendly tabletops. He really misses the 4e solitare.

Anaphory

21:14

@nitsua60 I don't know. I'm in UTC+2, Middle European Summer Time. My computer clock runs in UTC+1, because it's in British Summer Time. So you having quarter past 9 in UTC makes perfect sense, anything else would mean that, yes, your UTC is different.

nitsua60

@BESW I have fun figuring out how much a mine should make or how big are Large monsters. And D&D/AD&D/AD&D2e kept me company all by itself through a lot of the late 80s--early 90s.

BESW

On a meta level, D&D tends to be good at sublimating playstyle assumptions so groups can function moderately well without explicit social contracts, though that's not sustainable long-term.

nitsua60

@BESW Is that the game that's recently swamped our local not a bar? [slight ribbing, there]

('cause then maybe I need to check it out)

BESW

D&D's character advancement structure encourages extra-long campaigns but is also successful as a modular event system.

@nitsua60 Yes.

in Not a bar, but plays one on TV, yesterday, by Miniman

@trogdor One of Wizardry 8's greatest strengths: I've never made a party I didn't like. One of it's greatest weaknesses: I've never made a party I was completely happy with.

BESW

21:30

→ 24 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

nitsua60

Afk awhile, everyone. Stay tuned for more DW questions later $LOCAL_TIME_PERIOD

BESW

D&D is also VERY good at kitchen sink fantasy: it accommodates just about everything without worrying over whether the various bits fit together coherently.

"You want Lovecraftian brain-eaters on the moon in your ostensibly psuedo-medieval magic setting? Sure we can do that."

BESW

22:56

Drones to unleash vaccine-laced M&Ms in bid to save endangered ferrets.

trogdor

23:13

@nitsua60 well exxcuuuuse me princess

BESW

@trogdor No, the appropriate response is "We accept her! We accept her!"

trogdor

XD

no, I respond how I want! :P

(one of us one of us)

XD

nitsua60

@trogdor I'm used to grilling people about their religious beliefs... what's all this talking about games happening in the NAB?

=)

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Miniman

@JoelHarmon Incidentally, sorry for missing you - yesterday was a little crazy. Happy to talk whenever you're around.

nitsua60

23:18

@Shalvenay hiya. Turns out it was a good thing your dinner went long Sunday--my headset was at the office. Wouldn't have been able to have a productive conversation anyway =\

trogdor

@nitsua60 it is my domain now XD :P

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ah

Miniman

@trogdor One might say it was your Dominus, even.

trogdor

lol

or Dominae

nitsua60

Have you looked recently? Unless you speak Polish, looks like you're ousted =)
[mwa-hah-ha!]

trogdor

23:19

I see that, and I allow it to continue

Miniman

@trogdor I don't! Ahahaha!

trogdor

I am a benevolent ruler after all

@Miniman lol

nitsua60

[meanwhile, @trogdor scrawls on the wall of the NAB, in darkness] POLORUM EUNT DOMUS

trogdor

@nitsua60 I never saw this one XD

nitsua60

"'Eunt?' What is 'eunt?'"

Anaphory

23:24

Nescio an homo ille me repraesentet. Exspecta hic, translatorem fidelem inveniem.

nitsua60

@Anaphory (you know that a lot more than I picked up from Monty Python, right?)

Anaphory

Don't you worry. Empire does not have Hungarian as a Phys-Rep language, so I went for Greek, with two setting-appropriate changes. Try back-translating Εγώ δεν θα αγοράσει αυτό το έγγραφο, είναι γδαρμένο. Η αποστολή μου \emph{προσ Σαδογβε} είναι γεμάτη από χέλια.

Also, didn't I say I wanted to be in bed two hours ago :( Got distracted by languages.

(Need to find someone who speaks Greek to correct it, and I should note that that Sadogua is kind-of Empire's God of Magic, making him a suitable replacement for a hovercraft.)

nitsua60

@Anaphory Don't worry--ditching UTC and kicking over to subject time just means that your not into bed time yet =D

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