@Shalvenay Whereas that would never fly with me as GM. If you want a data metaphor, I'm query-based after the initial information is provided.

@SevenSidedDie Well that makes you a CRUD GM, doesn't it?

@Miniman Indeed. :)

Can anyone help with some shadowrun 4e questions? Like advice, subjective opinion, so I don't think I should make a normal post for it.

@SevenSidedDie well, I meant "complete with regards to visibility"

just saying "here's a room, have at it" doesn't work so well with me

@Shalvenay Oh, sure. It wouldn't have occurred to me that "not even describing the room" would be a thing to be concerned about.

also -- on that SR5 protected files question, my sim-sense tingles strongly with the feeling of "massive rules dysfunction inbound"

@Gumbz -- just throw them out there :)

woot -- first uses of my newfound edit superpowers :D

Alrighty shalvenay, thanks. Mostly, I'm just rocking a ton of analysis paralysis while trying to roll up my first shadowrun character - an elf adept with Kinesis and assault rifles. I don't really understand whether a Focus, or cyberware, or other fancy items are "must have" things and I just can't decide what to spend my nuyen on.

@Gumbz -- any reason you can't discuss it with the rest of your party and/or your GM?

welcome back @Gumbz

thankya

They don't really have answers. All the players are new, and the GM has only ever GM'd. Her advice is "I don't know, just spend all your karma on turning into a Gun Dragon." (Runner's Companion, dracoforms, page 76)

wow

I suppose you'll have to wait and see if any Shadowrunners pop in then

(I haven't played a lick of Shadowrun -- the only SR stuff I touch is from the simulationist perspective)

eh well. I'm sure the character will be fine whatever happens. I just hate all the options for spending nuyen and no way to know what of it is useful

Hmm. Looking at top users in that tag, most of them don't frequent the chat a lot.

d&d keeps it pretty simple - either sword, greatsword, bow, or crossbow (mostly) ;)

Maybe @Pureferret will drop by.

@Gumbz -- not so much :p

eh, I guess I'm forgetting all the exotic weapons and gripping monkeys and weirdness of 3.5

I'm thinking of how much tail the fighter in my 5e group kicks with his glaive

I have not tried 5e much yet

I did the playtests a little

the shitty caves of chaos playtest, with the really nice simple rules

and the Return to Blingdenstone FANTASTIC adventure with the somewhat more confusing rules

it's not a bad system at all -- it's the rulings-ness and relative flexibility of 2e with the simpler dice rolling of 3.5e, and some nice twists thrown in (such as advantage/disadvantage)

fair enough. I live in a very small town now, so I only have one person to play games with

whereas I used to have aregular gaming group

but when I'm in montreal with these folks, I'll finally get to try shadowrun!

so you've never played?

I'm not sure what you mean about the simulationist perspective

as in, using real-life experiences to inform what should happen ingame

I see. but you've played shadowrun at all? lucky you!

no, I haven't -- my TTRPG experience is mostly D&D with a dab of Fate Accelerated in there

ah, I see. mostly I just read through non-D&D books wistfully ;)

don't rest your head, savage worlds, my life with master, etc

I've read through parts of Mage: the Ascention and Ars Magica as well -- but the writing style those systems' main documents employ is very hard to digest end-to-end

@Grimmcrow Hi!

@Gumbz I know what you mean. I've got those three too, and have only played one.

Yay for a GM running a dungeon crawl snore

also yay for having to fix half of the tools that came with this Campaign Cartographer Annual

yeah -- standard dungeon crawls are a snorefest :P

what's this New Feed Items thing?

did I sign up for it on accident, or is it automatic?

It's a room-specific feed ticker that draws from the feeds on this page.

The thing popping up at the top? everyone sees that

(wish i had a little more PERSONAL control over it, but meh)

For this particular room, its content is suggested and voted on by us.

hmm... I dont know what I feel about systems where situational bonuses can make it literally impossible to fail a roll.

not every roll, but some times

That's a fairly major playstyle determiner.

I like systems where you don't even have to roll for archetype-appropriate things. a thief never fails to vanish into the shadows, a witch never fails to contact a semi-helpful local spirit, a noble never fails to inspire loyalty, etc

Whereas I often enjoy systems which ask for rolls only when it's unclear which outcome would be narratively best.

If i were to describe this system, it would be one of extremes - if you hit, you probably finished them off. If they hit you, you are probably close to being finished. If you are skilled at all, you are very likely to succeed. if you arnt skilled, you are very likely to fail

@DuckTapeAl Yeah I usually don't play like that, it's why it was so effective at setting the mood. Plus, the scenario was based on youtube.com/watch?v=r-ZD5cLlA2U The Many Door of Albert Whale. I wanted them to take the sticky notes seriously. =) Playing like that all the time would be tiresome for me.

/me shakes the channel, sees if any Shadowrunners fall out

@Shalvenay Atomic Robo mailbag on scientific accuracy:

> We always prefer to err on the side of plausibility over accuracy. We have always found plausibility opens up more interesting options than pure accuracy.

I really like this world our group created. Its a plausible multiverse!

it also lets us have a lot more play time, since we can pass the GM torch around

So the inventor of role playing games, Saint Gygax, intended that you start by playing D&D (or any RPG) to know what they are... Then house rule it, then house setting the game, then once you get a feel for that, just write your own game for your local group.

@BESW you rang?

If it's about shadowrun I've never played it, and you can't prove anything

@Tritium21 Interesting...my first group went the other way. We started with games we created ourselves, then eventually progressed to actual D&D.

Interesting

@Wibbs re: my comment on the Fate question, some of the major games are listed on the fate RPG wikipedia article. There's lots of other minor games, and Evil Hat's actively building up a Fate Worlds series of smaller game implementations from independents.

each one's going to tweak the dials slightly as suits it, and some are going to replace parts of the Core rules for better or worse, or just suggest a better way to handle the same thing within their own system.

@doppelgreener ah, fair enough - it might need closing for being unclear if that's the case

@Wibbs it seemed to be asking about core and accelerated at first, so we'll go with that

they tagged it as such, so they weren't saying core and accelerated were irrelevant, they were saying it was irrelevant which

or at least, i'd go with that! if you disagree you can cast your close vote, maybe it needs it, i'm only taking a break from watching Daredevil.

@Wibbs mind if I delete my comments?

@doppelgreener not at all

I'll do the same

@doppelgreener IIUC DF having the aspects not being always 'on' matches the mythos of the books better

Tonight, two of my players made 13th Age PCs.

A bard raised by sirens, with no allegiance that anyone can figure out, whose songs are all pop hits--I Like to Move It, Can't Touch This, Holding Out for a Hero.

And a piebald, flightless wyrmling bred in a test tube by the Archmage from blood of all four Iconic dragons, with a human nursemaid. Technically the PC is a ranger with a wyrmling companion (panther stats), but that's not fooling anybody.

@BESW both sound reasonable

The wrymling looks to wind up with an 18-20 crit range on anything with a lower initiative count (and rolling twice for init with a +9 mod, that's most things), and the ability to increase that to 16-20 for one target per fight.

@BESW Hmmmmmmmm

Maybe not then

Did you drop my name about shadow run BTW?

@Tritium21 it causes a problem when one of your aspects is "on fire" or a consequence is "broken leg" though

that should not necessarily always be affecting you but it should be always on

@BESW so is the human nursemaid the ranger component of the ranger/companion duo?

S'quiet in here

I'm plotting by the way

Mwahahaha

@Pureferret Plotting...what?

@Miniman a nWoD campaign I may never run... But it's fun.

I'm basing it around a Promethean who is trying to obtain god hood

I'm playing three story arcs, starting with the players as children

@JustinT We can reasonably guess at Rules As Intended, but that doesn't mean we know the Rules As Intended unless there's a statement as to the effect the rules are meant to have.

@JustinT You assume that common sense and economics are design goals of 5e. :)

RAI is one of the most over-used, misused terms that exists. Most of the time people use it, what it really means is the interpretation of the rules that they think most makes sense, which has no relevance to what the actual designer of the game might have intended

yeah, 5e simply isn't even close to being that simulationist

actually, @JustinT -- D&D itself was never, ever designed to be that simulationist when it comes to economics

@doppelgreener Yes.

@Pureferret Your name was the only one in the top users for the Shadowrun s4 tag who comes into chat regularly.

@BESW ah

I have the core book

But I can check it out and give an opinion when I'm home