TRPG General Chat

1:34 AM

Best question ever?

0

I have some chickens named with Borg designations. There were originally 4, so each of them was N of 4. Two of them died though, then I got two new ones, so should the new ones get their own group designation ("of 2") or should they become part of the original "of 4"? I would like to be techni...

trogdor

1:45 AM

lol

stupid freaking Borg

they made no sense in any way

Alex P

@trogdor I think they made sense at some point. But then the writers kept changing them.

trogdor

mm

most of what I saw was "ok, so once you use one type of energy on them they are immune, forever, no cost"

that by itself is just ridiculously silly

but i did see some other things that just made no sense

Alex P

I thought you just had to keep shifting frequencies.

trogdor

like Borg babies TM

not from what I saw

that worked for a little while, but then they became immune to all of them

with no explanation as to why a type of pure energy can be completely useless without opening up a weakness for something else

BESW

trogdor

1:59 AM

I saw at least 2 or 3 episodes where away teams were beamed onto a borg ship, and they did the whole frequency shift thing

but every time, it stopped working at the end

@BESW this is as much sense as it made really

and as far as Borg babies go, if you graft cyborg stuff onto a baby to replace flesh, that baby is not gonna grow properly

Alex P

@trogdor You can replace the cyborg crap as they age. Also, I think the whole point is not to grow properly -- the cyber bits get integrated into their bodies and whatnot.

trogdor

except the organic parts that borg have are still in the shape of humans/humanoids

Alex P

I mean, it certainly makes sense that they'd want their brains to become depending on the cyberware, for example.

doppelgreener

2:35 AM

@trogdor do they become immune to being hit very hard with a very dense object?

trogdor

no but

good luck doing that either

they were about as strong as DATA from what I could tell

so one guy could, MAYBE, fight one of them hand to hand

doppelgreener

I am just remembering someone having pointed out

trogdor

they were made of mcguffyn, and explained poorly if at all

doppelgreener

that although science fiction tends to contain all number of energy weapons, photon cannons, heat lasers, and so on,

none of that is even remotely necessary.

because anything, absolutely anything, can be obliterated if you simply hit it hard enough.

trogdor

it should work that way

doppelgreener

2:41 AM

there's apparently a sci-fi war novel wherein people start using wormhole technology to capture asteroids and launch them directly at planets.

trogdor

but Borg Spaceships had all the same immunities

doppelgreener

... and that's the starting point

trogdor

the only thing you could ram them with is your own ship

cause no one in Star Trek (as far as I know) had powerful enough tractor beams to ram enemy ships with asteroids

doppelgreener

@trogdor probably for the best

trogdor

if they did, it would be even more silly than it already was/is

the Borg is/are one of my personal hated things

it seemed to me that the show let the main cast get too strong, so they basically made the Borg to stop that

pretty much like what happened in the last couple seasons of Stargate SG 1

doppelgreener

2:48 AM

@trogdor with... the replicators?

trogdor

Aurai

or however you spell it

but the Replicators too really

I might even say the Replicators were a worse offense than the Borg

cause they had all the same superpowers and more

doppelgreener

being invincible and also shapeshifters?

trogdor

well,

they could eat/absorb/not-care-about energy weapons just like the borg

they literally ate tech of any kind and incorporated it

doppelgreener

@trogdor do deadly biological viruses count as a technology

would they acquire said viruses

and die

trogdor

using brute force like a sledgehammer against them was silly because they collaped like legos and reformed

no

doppelgreener

3:00 AM

dang

trogdor

they were full machine sooo

computer viruses were sorta kinda effective

but they basically shook those off eventually

doppelgreener

how

i hope this is not like independence day where someone flies up to a completely alien mothership and plugs in their windows laptop or w/e

trogdor

they were all machines, their brains were software

doppelgreener

but you'd have to write software for those machines

trogdor

not exactly

a little better than that, but not entirely

yeah

you had to write it specifically against replicators

and even that didn't seem to be a complete fix

people would come up with brilliant ways to upload a replicator virus into a group of replicators and kill them all, but as it turns out they were everywhere

BESW

3:04 AM

Replicators... yeah, the viruses that targeted them were either written for the Replicators specifically or had some hand-waving justification of their own which let the viruses attack whatever they pleased.

trogdor

and the same thing wouldn't work twice

generally at least

BESW

My Digger Omnibus is finally at the Post Office, but it's taking more than 12 hours to get sorted and put in my box...

doppelgreener

@BESW \o/

trogdor

lol

BESW

3:38 AM

...and suddenly USPS tracking claims it's been in my box since 6:45 this morning.

doppelgreener

Does that mean it is now in your box?

Or that it has.... Not been delivered properly :(

BESW

Says it's in my box.

I'll drive over and check later this afternoon.

doppelgreener

Ok :D

trogdor

lol

BESW

3:54 AM

room topic changed to RPG General Chat: General discussion for rpg.se [badgers-and-owlephants] [main-site-chat] [rpg]

2

BESW

4:14 AM

Better tag suggestions will be considered.

Joshua Aslan Smith

4:43 AM

hola

how is everyone

I managed to get the bounty hunter hat I so coveted

Alex P

5:49 AM

The Silence: worst priests ever?

lisardggY

6:49 AM

@AlexP Confess!

@AlexP Bring out the comfy chair!

BESW

8:04 AM

First and last lines of each Doctor. Roughly.

Technically we don't know Nine's first actual line, so it's the first line we hear him say. And Seven's last line was "I'm not human!"

You can kind of tell that New Who has body image issues: ears, teeth, legs, kidneys...

(Also that New Who is kind of repetitive.)

BESW

8:24 AM

@lisardggY Maaake a spaaace suuuit!

trogdor

@BESW "hey who turned out the lights?"

BESW

8:38 AM

If Moffat were really as clever as people seem to think he is, the archaeological team in Silence of the Library would've been religious in nature.

trogdor

lol

that is coming a bit late

BESW

Well, he established very early on in Eleven's run that River was forcibly associated with a militant religious organization.

So he had that idea pretty much from the start.

trogdor

yes

BESW

That he didn't indicate it when he first introduced her...

trogdor

but what you are talking about is from 10

and you give him too much forward planning credit

BESW

8:47 AM

Late in Ten's last full season.

Yeah, I'm saying that if he were as good at forward planning as he likes to give the impression he is...

trogdor

mk

my bad

BESW

9:25 AM

[opens Digger Omnibus package] "Sweet cheese, you can beat a man to death with this!"

trogdor

what now?

BESW

It's 820+ pages of high-quality paper.

The thing's not a book, it's a tome.

trogdor

lol

what is it illustrating?

comics?

or like a huge collection of odds and ends Ursula wrote?

BESW

It's the full 6-volume, 8-year graphic novel Digger in a single book.

trogdor

ah

BESW

9:32 AM

trogdor

didn't think it was that big

explains the name though

BESW

Mine's paperback, not hardcover. The hardcover ones probably qualify as lethal weapons in some states.

This is the spine of one of the hardcovers:

BESW

10:16 AM

Man, the New Year's explosives are starting early.

trogdor

lol

BESW

10:43 AM

@trogdor For the first level of Assault on Dark Athena, Riddick's only weapon is a hairpin.

trogdor

lol

trogdor

11:04 AM

it sorta sounds like he could just use his hands and be more effective

BESW

11:16 AM

Can we get VTCs on this question until it's sorted out?

Professor Loki Caprion

11:28 AM

Oh, wow, I left my chat logged in on my work PC overnight!

BESW

@ProfessorLokiCaprion We enjoyed your ghostly company.

Professor Loki Caprion

Glad to feel appreciated! :D

I had the best game of Battlestar Galactica, last night! Even though my side lost!

BESW

Glad to hear it.

Professor Loki Caprion

Hopefully 2014 will be more of the same, and less like 2013.

BESW

I'll let you know in about two hours and twenty minutes.

@Zachiel Thanks for weighing in on the Baldur's Gate thing.

Zachiel

11:43 AM

I didn't know it had 3.5 elements in it

but I supect those are 3.0 at best

BESW

I never know if it's better to have just one guy making all the comments, or to have multiple people pitch in.

I have no idea, knowing nothing about BG.

Zachiel

I guess it depends on frequency. More people dogpiling is bad

I started D&D with that game. Ok, I played the arcade game and finished it once in the past but I didn't realize it was actually D&D until last year

lisardggY

@Zachiel Which one, Tower of Doom?

Zachiel

@lisardggY the one with manticore, beholder and a couple of displacer beasts as sub-bosses

lisardggY

@Zachiel I honestly can't remember. I played that a lot at the arcade, but that was about 15 years ago. :)

Zachiel

11:48 AM

Could have been Shadows of Mystara, which was the second game in the series, but I'm not sure

lisardggY

12:25 PM

Ah, I see the the UMD question has finally been refined to its core.

BESW

Voting to re-open.

It's still iffy, but I think it could work.

Zachiel

my answer would be on the lines of "any similar feat would allow him to wear the armor, but it's still an evil item and if he keeps using it he'll became evil too"

BESW

Mhm.

Zachiel

So I'm not really going to answer

BESW

I think "only the most evil of humans could wear such a vile item" is a matter of distaste rather than actual inability. As in, "How could you do such a thing?!"

Zachiel

12:32 PM

It's could, not would

However, hey, somebody has already crafted it. The evil has already been done.

BESW

@Zachiel It's an idiomatic vagueness, could be interpreted either way.

Zachiel

Sometimes, I just want to be pedantic.

BESW

@ioanwigmore Hi!

ioanwigmore

Wait, isn't the question asking if the bard should be able to wear the armor, in Baldur's Gate? It's a computer game question no?

Hi all

BESW

@ioanwigmore Yes, but what they're asking for is the D&D context on which Baldur's Gate is based.

Basically, the computer game doesn't give them the info they need, so they want to know about the tabletop rules it's inspired by.

ioanwigmore

12:37 PM

They have a specific purpose in mind, for their bard, which is presumably created for a specific version of D&D or other RPG

lisardggY

Voted to reopen too.

BESW

So it's a tabletop question sparked by a video game context, which is legit.

lisardggY

I have an answer ready, also along those lines.

ioanwigmore

Yeah, so my follow-up is then we should be told which system this bard and armor is in, for the best possible answer.

Zachiel

@ioanwigmore I might be wrong here, but I guess the edition or game they're playing has no answers to that question too, so he wants to know if there's at least a similar system he can base his decisions on.

BESW

12:39 PM

@ioanwigmore We... tried that. Did you see the mass of comments?

@Zachiel Ding! That's the case.

lisardggY

@BESW I think the basic problem there is communication. Brian's first comment gave an answer, but Julix didn't understand that he was referencing the specific 3.x/PF skill, and it all went downhill from there.

BESW

I may make an edit to his question... hrm.

lisardggY

Once someone else votes to reopen, I can answer and get it over with. :)

BESW

"What is the D&D ability that Baldur's Gate's 'Use Any Item' feature is based on, and how would that feature interact with an item like this armor?"

ioanwigmore

@BESW yeah the comments make a lot of good points, but the question as is is still a little confusing

@BESW Yeah that's better

BESW

12:41 PM

Done.

ioanwigmore

@BESW or "my bard in system X wants to wear this armour, is there really no way of allowing it?"

Alex P

@BESW Multiclass Sarevok to a Fighter/Thief (he has the stats for it). Give him epic Use Any Item. Now give him the Holy Avenger.

Zachiel

@AlexP oooooooh

lisardggY

Rereading the question again, the entire thing is based on a misunderstanding, I think.

BESW

@ioanwigmore Unfortunately, he doesn't know what system he's asking for except "something D&D."

Zachiel

12:43 PM

he doesn't lote much from multiclassing after level 10, right?

@BESW judging from his profile he plays PF

BESW

@Zachiel But this isn't a PF question.

Zachiel

how does PF manage this?

BESW

The character is in Baldur's Gate.

He's looking for parallels in systems he is not using in order to extrapolate a case that the system he's using doesn't fully explain.

From one of his comments:

> The video game mechanics allow it, but that could have been an oversight. Thus I'm looking for how this ability ought to work. To do so I want to compare other systems that allow a similar thing so I can look at those descriptions.

Julix questions are usually filtered through the lens of someone whose experience with D&D is largely via third-party games inspired by the franchise.

ioanwigmore

It's tricky because most other systems would allow the GM to choose whether the armor is wearable, regardless of feats/etc. There's always a way to allow it or prevent it. But we're talking about Baldur's Gate, which has no malleable GM.

wax eagle

@BESW I don't see that as a generally useful line of questions

lisardggY

12:50 PM

Also, The XY Problem. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/66377/what-is-the-xy-problem

ioanwigmore

If the computer game allows it, that's how it is. You can talk about it in other non-computer game systems but it doesn't make sense.

BESW

@waxeagle Luckily, Julix is a good sport about it, albeit a frustrated one sometimes.

@lisardggY Julix's posts often labor under a more general "begging the question" variant, but yes.

Zachiel

@BESW I'm not that sure the actual character is in BG. It looks like "I have this character and I saw this happen in that game, how did that work exactly? Videogaming semplification?" - I don't remember that armor to need golden dragon blood, at least

BESW

[shrug] I'm admittedly unfamiliar with BG.

In other news, my sparsely-greying temples have sent advance grey scouts to reconnoiter my hairline.

Alex P

I don't think D&D3 has any more of a defined answer to this than BG does, really.

BESW

12:56 PM

@AlexP D&D3 has three possible answers:

a) You cannot wear this unless you are evil; you may overcome this with UMD.

ioanwigmore

Ohh I remember this armour! It's in BG: baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Human_Flesh_Armor

BESW

b) You get a penalty to wear this if you are not evil; you may overcome this with UMD.

Alex P

@ioanwigmore Yup, that's it! The real answer is "It makes your sprite look really ugly, so don't wear it." :D

BESW

c) You may use this if you are not evil, but the GM will determine an appropriate social response from those you meet.

ioanwigmore

@BESW I think those are the 3 answers we're looking for

BESW

1:12 PM

@lisardggY Minor syntax edit on your otherwise excellent answer.

lisardggY

@BESW Thanks.

BESW

Generally speaking, it's bad form to ask two questions in a row and then say "If so..."

lisardggY

You're right. The first paragraph was originally phrased differently, but after changing it, I forgot to adjust the following paragraph.

BESW

Happens to everyone.

I usually spend half an hour editing after I've posted an answer.

Aaron

Gmornin

BESW

1:15 PM

45 minutes to the New Year.

[backs away from windows]

lisardggY

@BESW You're our beta tester for 2014.

2

BESW

If any place is gonna survive the immediate apocalypse, it's us.

Our communication infrastructure will probably get trashed, though, and then we'll starve.

But immediate disaster? We've had typhoons with gusts over 200mph and mini-tornadoes inside, earthquakes up to 7.8 Richter, and volcanoes in our own island chain.

Our casualties from natural disaster come from people being stupid, like using your generator inside your house to keep it dry.

But so far, I don't smell any incoming apocalypse.

2

lisardggY

It's lurking.

Waiting.

Biding its time.

wax eagle

@BESW heh, surely there are a few sat phones on the island

BESW

@waxeagle Yeah, and the military's probably got itself mostly covered.

wax eagle

1:25 PM

@BESW yup

lisardggY

Poe's Law in effect - I am unable to determine whether this site is serious or not. apocalypse2008-2015.com/Apocalypse_has_Started.html

BESW

Our biggest threat to self-sufficiency these days is that we can't possibly feed our population without regular cargo ship visits.

lisardggY

Although I am reassured that the "Apocalypse Has Started" page has valid CSS and XHTML.

Hey, I got a 2014 hat.

BESW

Grats.

@lisardggY I'm thinking not parody.

lisardggY

@BESW I suspect so too. The sheer volume of it all, plus the PayPal link.

BESW

1:29 PM

Also, not enough moving gifs.

wax eagle

well, we can be sure of one thing. That's not the date of the apocalypse.

also seriously wondering how russian grandmother books are going to help

lisardggY

Found it by searching for "apocalypse 2014" to see if there are any doom prophecies for the coming year.

BESW

@waxeagle Do you think the date of the apocalypse would bring it flowers?

lisardggY

Also found an IMDB link for Ninja Apocalypse

wax eagle

@BESW yes, absolutely

flowers, growing out of a small bed of brimstone

BESW

1:32 PM

And they'd go see The Phantom Menace at a drive-in theatre.

(Or possibly Battlefield Earth, if they want to laugh.)

....durnit, I think the kids across the street are throwing bang-snaps into the parking lot again.

lisardggY

Basically, I now think Julix just wants a Feat that lets him use any weapon, any armor, any magical item, without reprecussions.

My very first D&D game (I was 10, running Red Box D&D to my 11 year old brother), he played a thief, and it took us a month to notice that he's not supposed to be able to wear platemail.

BESW

1:52 PM

@lisardggY [wry] All this apocalypse stuff is rather fascinating, since I'm someone who believes we're in the Age of Fulfillment / Time of Revelation, but doesn't think it has anything to do with a literal end of the world.

I can hear the fireworks over the bay.

I'ma go to bed as soon as the fireworks stop.

wax eagle

2:12 PM

so 6am?

oh right you said no personal fireworks

BESW

This is a thing now. I am okay with this thing:

lisardggY

I wonder what clothing style they'll pick for him.

New series starts in March, right?

BESW

We wish.

Wikipedia says autumn.

lisardggY

Right. Just saw it now.

At least without a split season this time.

BESW

Fireworks seem to have stopped. Goodnight!

lisardggY

2:20 PM

g'night. And a happy 2014!

BESW

@lisardggY So far everything's still here!

lisardggY

@BESW Hurray!

RedRiderX

2:34 PM

So Shada is pretty nice.

The 8th Doctor and Lady President Romana and K9 is interesting.

lisardggY

The radio-play remake?

RedRiderX

Yep

Well the online flash remake of that.

lisardggY

Heh.

I saw some of the original TV bits a few years ago.

I read Dirk Gently long before I knew anything of Doctor Who, so I totally missed the massive Who bits that were worked into that.

RedRiderX

2:50 PM

Hmm...

Haven't heard of Dirk Gently

But looking him up now they seem like rather interesting books.

lisardggY

They are. Both are excellent.

Douglas Adams was working as a script editor for Doctor Who in the late 70's, and wrote the script for Shada. After it was scrapped, he adapted some ideas to the first Dirk Gently novel.

RedRiderX

@lisardggY Oh I see.

lisardggY

So there's a character there who's clearly a time lord, if you know the back story.

RedRiderX

@lisardggY Hah that's great

Professor Loki Caprion

Oh, yes. And even has a "TARDIS".

RedRiderX

2:53 PM

@ProfessorLokiCaprion Wow really?

Aaron

Anyone know of some good half machine humanoid pictures? Just off the top of your head.

Professor Loki Caprion

@RedRiderX Very heavily altered to not be too obviously a former Doctro Who script, but yes.

RedRiderX

@ProfessorLokiCaprion Oh wow I feel like I need to read this now...

Professor Loki Caprion

@Aaron Like the cover of "When Axioms Collide?"

RedRiderX

ah forget remembering grammar.

Grammar's dumb :P

Professor Loki Caprion

2:55 PM

MadMAxJr

Gee, that's a familiar cover.

Professor Loki Caprion

It was used in several things, apparently!

WEG used a lot of "second-hand art" for their covers, toward the end of Torg, I think.

RedRiderX

@ProfessorLokiCaprion Isn't that the I have no mouth and I must Scream cover?

Aaron

@ProfessorLokiCaprion Not quite more like this

Professor Loki Caprion

@RedRiderX That's the title I couldn't think of!

RedRiderX

2:57 PM

gog.com/game/i_have_no_mouth_and_i_must_scream

That's the game, anyway.

MadMAxJr

I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.. Wonderful line in there....

"Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate."

Professor Loki Caprion

Wow. o_o

What is this about?

RedRiderX

@ProfessorLokiCaprion Hate.

Professor Loki Caprion

@RedRiderX Well, clearly.

MadMAxJr

3:35 PM

It's a particularly dark story.

RedRiderX

@MadMAxJr Quite dark indeed.

Even the Wikipedia synopsis is a little scarring.

Alex P

Short version: a computer tortures people.

Like, Hell torture, not "24" torture.

MadMAxJr

Not just torture. Create and provide an environment specifically designed to prolong their suffering, without killing them.

PC game adaptation of it isn't too bad. On Steam too.

Alex P

@MadMAxJr Err, "create an environment specifically designed to prolong their suffering without killing them" is just part of torture.

RedRiderX

With them being the last humans on earth as well.

After the computer killed all the others.

MadMAxJr

3:39 PM

@AlexP It's a bit more involved than the typical RPG fanfare torture of 'put them on the rack' is what I was getitng at.

RedRiderX

I think...

MadMAxJr

Or that torture machine from The Princess Bride.

RedRiderX

It's a very specific kind of torture designed to showcase each of their own faults as well as the Human Race's faults in general.

MadMAxJr

AM is one very /angry/ computer.

Must be an intel...

RedRiderX

Dang

Zachiel

4:06 PM

"Cardinal, tie her to the rack!"

MadMAxJr

Ah yes, the Inquistion.

RedRiderX

5:03 PM

A truly dark time.

MadMAxJr

I see the question rolled up to the top "How do I invoke fear in my players?"

There are so many answers to that, that I cannot put in there.

"I find having the gun on the table by the DM screen helps."

2

"Tarantulas underneath a shoebox on the center of the table works for me."

wax eagle

"Keep several gargantuan minis by DM screen"

@MadMAxJr your DM doesn't?

MadMAxJr

5:21 PM

Actually my first DM was an enthusiast and for some reason felt the need to conceal-carry in a game shop back-room.

Gave our games an oddly 'mafia' feeling.

RedRiderX

@MadMAxJr That statement is so wonderful out of context.

wax eagle

@MadMAxJr our DM (and several of our current, former and irregular players) all carry...not really a big deal IMO

btw if you have close votes: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/31156/…

MadMAxJr

It's not a big deal any more, just looking back on it many many years later, I realize that DM was more than a little unstable, but that's not a topic for this room. Long story short? Crazy people can make wonderful RPG stories.

Alex P

Reminds me of "Brazilian Death Squad."

RedRiderX

5:47 PM

@AlexP My first scan of that I misread it and was thinking of expecting more along the lines of this:

"Brazilian Death Squid"

2

Or something like that.

But that story almost sounds crazier...

lisardggY

6:05 PM

@MadMAxJr Me (and my ex-girlfriend) can certainly vouch for that.

John Craven

6:51 PM

sometimes I just do not understand the questions that come into this forum

was there actually someone asking whether or not he could coerce a silver dragon into bleeding itself if he like kidnapped its babies or something?

Alex P

@JohnCraven That was a Stack Exchange question?

John Craven

yes

thankfully it looks like it's been voted off the island

1

Q: Coercing a silver dragon

Could a silver dragon mom fearing the death of her unhatched offspring ever be coerced into giving blood? Example: A chaotic good, extremely powerful, highly charismatic, and boosted by potions extra wise and smart Bard (and his party) was rudely coerced by the dragon into saving it's eggs. When...

adnd-2e alignment dragons

Alex P

WHAT IS IT WITH THAT GUY AND BALDUR'S GATE 2?

wax eagle

@AlexP who knows, probably trying to win some kind of silly argument

Aaron

@AlexP what guy?

lisardggY

6:56 PM

@AlexP I think he's trying to recreate large bits of the game for P&P. But the questions are so convoluted it's hard to say.

MadMAxJr

Baldurs Gate is a mishmash of 2E rules, using it as a basis for rulings in the opposite direction is... odd.

Alex P

@Aaron See the question John linked, and the earlier question about Bards in skin armor today.

lisardggY

Basically, most computer game D&D adaptations are very lax with restrictions, since they don't have to maintain balance between classes or can handle balance issues in other ways.

Now it seems this guy finds it hard to create the same kind of character in Pathfinder, and is trying to find a way to sneak past restrictions.

wax eagle

@lisardggY you can hide a lot of it in opaque and arcane math in a video game when you can't in a P&P

MadMAxJr

Using RAW to circumvent and defend against attempts to apply logic.

Sadly RAW / Your DMs logic may vary, from table to table.

lisardggY

6:58 PM

@MadMAxJr Hey, we've all been there.

Alex P

@lisardggY I'm not sure that explains, like, the dragon thing.

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