Root Access

allquixotic

1:13 PM

hii

soandos

Such a helpful username superuser.com/a/466091/82812

as an aside, anyone know why they are listed as deleted by community?

allquixotic

who?

Tom Wijsman

@soandos Flags.

soandos

After a certain number it just gets deleted automatically?

jokerdino

6 spam flags and they are auto deleted

soandos

1:24 PM

right, forgot that, thanks

jokerdino

and @soandos, here's the link - askubuntu.com/a/61547/25798

soandos

@jokerdino thank you

1

Q: Ubuntu not connecting to network in Hyper-V

I am unable to connect the Ubuntu guest (both 12.10 and 12.04) to the internet via hyper-V. Here is what I have done so far (with much thanks due to @Kronos's blog post on the topic): Created a switch in the switch manager with connection set to external, selected my wifi card (Intel Centrino ...

@jokerdino does anything change for "wired" cards?

jokerdino

it doesn't work for you on 12.10?

soandos

The commands you linked to? they work. I just wanted to be sure there was nothing else.

jokerdino

Oh I see. I don't think there is much for wired chipsets but let me see.

Oliver Salzburg

1:36 PM

> Hyper-V is not creating an additional adapter just for the guest (that windows can see at any rate) though it does create a bridge. Is this normal?

@soandos To my understanding, yes

soandos

So it just creates one virtual adapter per switch?

jokerdino

@soandos, most docs on troubleshooting only covers wireless. no luck for wired

Oliver Salzburg

@soandos Yes

soandos

@jokerdino @OliverSalzburg thanks.

Oliver Salzburg

@soandos Well, I only ever had one switch/network. So that's as far as my experience goes

soandos

1:40 PM

got it. I assume this was on a wired chipset?

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg what is this in reply to Oli?

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic To the quote above it

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg okay, but that isn't a quote from me, is it...?

it's @soandos who asked that question :P

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Oh wow... No idea what was going on at the time :D

allquixotic

no problem, just wanted to make sure you weren't actually addressing me ;p

I can understand you wanting to substitute @soandos with me. After all, I am the king of Root Access, having been permanently banned and lived to tell the tale, and all.

allquixotic

2:05 PM

is this on-topic? I really don't know. superuser.com/questions/489919/how-to-clean-a-computer

it seems almost too trivial to even ask, but maybe that's just me being high and mighty :P

I mean.... it's not rocket science. you take a barely damp paper towel or washcloth, some kind of solvent that is safe for [touch]screens, and clean the touchscreen, then maybe use something a little more powerful to clean the casing and keyboard... with the unit powered down of course

r.tanner.f

Maybe if you edit it to "How can I safely vacuum dust out of a laptop?"

otherwise it's just going to be a tip-fest

allquixotic

yeah

I didn't VTC but that's only because there's currently an ongoing backlash against people with VTC privileges abusing them :P

r.tanner.f

@allquixotic hm? What's going on?

uh-oh...

0

Q: safe overclock limit?

I've a Toshiba laptop satellite L750D-14R with a AMD E-450 APU with Radeon HD Graphics at 1.65Ghz dua core. Its rated at 2.4 Ghz, would it be smart to overclock it to 2Ghz or would that kill my laptop?

overclocking

Don't think that's going to end well...

Tom Wijsman

@r.tanner.f VtC NC. :)

KronoS

@soandos you around?

Oliver Salzburg

2:35 PM

What the...

This IDE defines Ctrl+Y as "delete line"

allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg Does it also define Ctrl+Z as "save file and close IDE"?

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Oh no, that's Undo

allquixotic

well at least it's half sane

r.tanner.f

@OliverSalzburg MADNESS.

Oliver Salzburg

So you undo,undo,undo and want to redo the last two steps....

allquixotic

2:36 PM

when you accidentally type Ctr+Y and it does what you don't want it to do, just hit Ctrl+Z :)

Oliver Salzburg

Now you deleted two lines and your undo-history is lost

r.tanner.f

ouch

allquixotic

lol

which IDE?

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic JetBrains PhpStorm

Most likely, all their IDEs share that default setting

allquixotic

never heard of it

Oliver Salzburg

2:38 PM

Same platform as NetBeans to my understanding

allquixotic

<ide-war>I only ever use Eclipse, Netbeans, Anjuta, and plaintext editors, depending on the scale of the task (nano for tiny edits, gedit for single file medium-sized edits, Eclipse or Netbeans or Anjuta for huge edits)</ide-war>

now that I have Eclipse CDT's Autotools package (new in Juno) I don't really need Anjuta anymore, though... can write autotooled C code in Eclipse

r.tanner.f

1

Q: Is there any multi-touch standalone monitor available for regular desktop PC use that supports windows 8 multitouch?

I know that there are several generations of touch-screen technology out there. There is the ancient resistive touch, pre win7 era capacitive, pre win7 era multitouch capacitive, and win7 compliant multitouch capacitive. However Win8 requires yet another new generation of hardware. I have bee...

monitor windows-8 multi-touch

I hope that's on topic because I was having a hard time finding one myself...

allquixotic

Thinking is hard; let's go shopping!

Seriously though, that question is going to come up again and again, so we may as well permit it. Majority rules.

r.tanner.f

I think for now it qualifies under "I need to do x, how can I do that?" x being purchase a touch screen that supports Windows 8. It might be a while before a good one comes out... Once they're everywhere, burn the question with fire, but it'd be nice if it hung around until then... because I really fscking want one. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

allquixotic

2:54 PM

I don't, but I don't plan on developing metro/modern apps, even in the likely event that I do purchase Windows 8 on release day.

I'll be using Windows 8 as Windows 7 to the fullest extent possible (and eschewing metro apps as much as possible), including using Stardock's Start8 program to get the start menu back.

mainly buying it for the hope that they might fix a few bugs in the core platform, improve driver stability/performance, optimize some APIs, and make Internet Explorer 10 suck less.

besides, using a touchscreen on a large desktop monitor is just begging to give you gorilla arm after about 20 minutes

our arms aren't meant to be outstretched and unsupported for long periods of time

maybe athletes can, but I'm clinically obese and my arms are heavy and my muscles aren't in shape... the most I can do is lay on my back and hold my Nexus 7 a few inches from my face, that's pretty comfortable (relatively speaking). otherwise I have to rest my arms on my desk while I type / mouse

Journeyman Geek

lol.

@allquixotic: Cleaning your computer is a little like washing your face. Some of us use soap. Some people use a half dozen little bottles with wierd french names

allquixotic

3:17 PM

I use three little bottles and one foaming wash bottle, does that put me in the latter category?

the names aren't French, though, unless "AcneFree" in French means "made from processed urea from bovines"

Journeyman Geek

3:29 PM

probably does.

allquixotic

@r.tanner.f lol @nhinkle closed it

Journeyman Geek

for my computers on the other hand, I have screenwipes, cyberclean and a lint free cloth from my old glasses.

allquixotic

Let's close really useful questions pertaining to hardware closely related to exciting new release of a major operating system from a company which previously employed the founders of SE, a question with info that a lot of people want to see, just because they categorically don't belong anywhere on SE! Cool.

nhinkle

@allquixotic please read:

Blog - Stack Exchange: Q&A is Hard, Let’s Go Shopping!

Jeff Atwood on November 23, 2010

Over the last 2.5 years, we’ve identified a few problematic classes of questions that tend to get asked on our sites. Many of these are documented in our standard set of close reasons: exact duplicate, off-topic, subjective and argumentative, not a real question, and too localized.

However, as we launched the great Super User experiment, a new, previously unknown class of problematic questions emerged — the shopping recommendation.

That is, on Super User we began encountering questions like: …

There are good reasons not to allow open-ended shopping questions, and in its current state, I do not believe the question is a "how do I do x" question, it is very much an "I want x, where do I send my money" question.

I too am curious about what monitors are available, and would be interested in the results, but I don't think in its current form it's really appropriate.

If others disagree, you're welcome to vote to re-open the question.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: the reasoning behind that, that the question goes stale still stands

there's one situation, which is niche hardware where a question like that may survive

allquixotic

3:39 PM

@nhinkle I've read that many times... I understand the argument being put forth; I just don't agree. The main argument seems to be that shopping questions are time-sensitive. But there are thousands of time-sensitive questions that have not been closed; should we close them too? Eventually you'd have about 3 questions on the site after being so selective.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: on the other hand, they can bring it up here

and we encourage that

nhinkle

@allquixotic I don't disagree, but thus is the policy. You're welcome to voice your concerns on Meta, if you're so inclined.

allquixotic

For example, any question where some user is trying to troubleshoot some problem with some BSOD or driver crash or hardware malfunction is "too localized"; any question where someone asks about a bug in software is also "too localized" due to time-sensitivity (the bug will be fixed in the future or the software will be obsolete); etc.

The only questions that wouldn't be "too localized" would be, say, theoretical questions about mathematics or computer science -- but even those could be obsolete if, some time in the future, the answer is found in academia.

The fact is, every piece of information every single piece of information in the entire universe that has ever been conceived -- has a finite span of usefulness. A beginning, and an end.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: well, shopping is clearly off topic, to the point where we asked for it to be a specific close reason.

nhinkle

@allquixotic I'm hesitant to argue about semantics, but it's worth pointing out that somebody else may very well have the same BSOD/error occurring due to the same buggy driver in the future. Shopping questions are an order of magnitude more time-dependent, because while the solution to the computer error will likely not change much, prices and availability do change rapidly.

Journeyman Geek

3:42 PM

I sorta disagreed with software rec being off topic tho

but shrug I got over it ;p

nhinkle

If you had a hardware recommendation being asked today, the prices and even availability of items you'd see in the responses would be out of date within a month. Maybe even a week.

allquixotic

"Shopping" shouldn't categorically be off-topic, especially when it pertains to shopping for hardware for specific software or upcoming/new platforms. And since we're also pretty punch-drunk on supporting Windows 8 topics, it just feels wrong to close that question.

nhinkle

If you have a software bug today, sure, nobody's going to be using Windows 7 in 20 years (I hope), but the answers will likely not have changed significantly in a week, month, or even a couple years.

allquixotic

Prices and availability weren't what's being asked. It was simply asking to name model numbers. Even if in 2039 that model number is no longer being sold, the fact remains that said model number, during its production run, supported Windows 8.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: what if tommorrow someone asks 'how do i find a multitouch screen that works with ubuntu 12.10'?

allquixotic

3:43 PM

@nhinkle The same can be said about the functionality espoused by / supported by given hardware.

For example, it is true that a certain model number of IDE hard drive from the 90s' worked with MS-DOS. So if SE existed in the 90s, and that question were still here, it wouldn't be all that useful to us today. But the same reasoning is being used to justify not closing software questions, and closing hardware questions.

soandos

@KronoS class in a few minutes, should be back in an hour and a half-ish

nhinkle

I understand your position @allquixotic, although I disagree that the question ought to receive a special exception. I need to go, but you're welcome to discuss your concerns on Meta and/or continue discussing in here. If you get 5 reopen votes, the question is yours.

r.tanner.f

I just think it would've been a good reference for hard to find upcoming monitors. Why can't we be a little patient and burninate the question later once it's irrelevant?

allquixotic

I just think the amount of time that the question can be useful is comparable for questions about particular software bugs or hardware configurations, and questions that provide references to hardware model numbers matching a certain feature set or compatibility with other hardware or software.

Basically, it's useful as long as a lot of people are still using that hardware/software.

So questions about VAX bugs (an old, old UNIX) would not be useful today, any more than questions about Windows 7 bugs will be useful in 2039. Similarly, questions about hardware connecting to VAX minicomputers would not be useful today, any more than questions about Windows 8 multitouch monitors would be useful in 2039.

We just seem to be saying "Shopping!" and closing it without analyzing how generally useful the information is and the timeliness of it. It's not about prices or availability; just model numbers.

r.tanner.f

It's also a lot more specific (currently) than many allowed questions. =\ How many touch screen monitors stamped Windows 8 compatible do you think are out there right now? I imagine it's a very finite number.

allquixotic

3:48 PM

Hard and fast rules are foolish for this reason. We seem to be operating under a system akin to Civil Law, where rules come down from high and, rather than being interpreted by a judge to decide if they apply in a particular case, the lexicography and semantics of the law as written is directly applied to form a judgment.

I'd like to see a little more Common Law influence, where circumstances and context are taken into account before throwing someone in jail.

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: the thing with civil law is, its mutable except when statutory law overrules it

allquixotic

Sure, common law / precedent-based law is flawed because sometimes good people get sent to jail and sometimes bad people get let off the hook. True. But civil law / hard-and-fast judgment is no more consistent than the alternative, because you get tons of inconsistencies like this.

Journeyman Geek

I'd consider the shopping is hard post to be the latter ;)

allquixotic

I'm going to change my gravatar to that barbie doll pic from the shopping is hard blog.

Journeyman Geek

and there's a loophole for hardware selection questions

its called 'what do I look for'

as opposed to

'what should I buy'

allquixotic

3:51 PM

Seriously. Screw this. I'm not to the point where I'm disgruntled and considering withdrawing from the community; far from it. But I'm going to wave that gravatar around like a banner for the plight of this singular question.

Journeyman Geek

so 'how would I know if the touchscreen monitor I want to buy would work with windows 8 ' may work

allquixotic

I'm standing my ground, dammit.

Journeyman Geek

I've been there. I got the question reopened.

(actually that story is pretty funny since I got into an arguement with Jeff Atwood over an edit...)

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek Tell me the story! :D

Journeyman Geek

superuser.com/posts/366221/revisions

see the original revision. Jeff felt the question should focus more on key types

I felt the question as is was ok, and we shouldn't narrow it down to cherries

arguement in comments ensued

allquixotic

3:54 PM

The funny thing is, Jeff Atwood helped you reopen it.

Journeyman Geek

oh

the comments are still there

r.tanner.f

@allquixotic I'm not that active, but TBH, this sort of things has been really putting me off Super User. I do not like this whole "thems the rules" attitude floating around, and closing things just because we can and the rules support it. =\

Journeyman Geek

also see meta.superuser.com/questions/5694/… and meta.superuser.com/questions/3832/…

allquixotic

@r.tanner.f I fully support that notion. But don't throw the moderators in with that crowd. They've been pushing back on the tendency for voters to close questions that really should not be closed.

Journeyman Geek

@r.tanner.f: Its NOT that hard to do a psudo shopping question thats not closable

allquixotic

3:56 PM

The mods are mostly sane. Mostly.

Journeyman Geek

or at least can be reopened

r.tanner.f

@JourneymanGeek I'm not talking about shopping. I actually think the work around is BS.

Journeyman Geek

@r.tanner.f: the workaround means the question is a lot more generalised

I seem to think its a better question for it.

allquixotic

The "workaround" really is BS. If you're trying to ask question X, and you have to ask question Y instead in order to avoid being shut down by the community, what the F is the point?!

r.tanner.f

but I do think that with an upcoming release of Windows 8 and the tiny number of Win8 compatible monitors, the knee jerk reaction to close is also BS

Journeyman Geek

3:57 PM

@r.tanner.f: if we're going to apply or unapply a rule, it needs to be across the board

not just cause windows 8 is coming out

r.tanner.f

@JourneymanGeek Why?

allquixotic

One of the SE blogs (not sure who by) was talking about maintaining a balance between being too insular and restrictive, and too open and broad. I think we're teetering on the edge of becoming too insular and restrictive, in the quest to prevent our SNR from spiralling out of control with all the off topic stuff that really does not belong.

The larger our community gets and the more topics we cover, the harder it is to maintain that balance.

Journeyman Geek

Well, same reason we occationally cull historic questions

basically so that if we DO need to use that rule, we won't have some smartass pointing out we allowed it before but not now

(not calling any of you that)

r.tanner.f

But we're already doing it ;)

Journeyman Geek

We'd also want to have the same exemption for other OSes I'd guess

allquixotic

4:00 PM

The way I see it is, the spectrum of questions that can be asked fall into three categories: (1) questions which virtually everyone finds to be on-topic; (2) questions which are controversial in their topicality; and (3) questions that virtually everyone finds to be off-topic/offensive/spam.

Journeyman Geek

'OS X 10.37 small earth cat is coming out. What brain-machine interface should I buy?'

allquixotic

The way that we define our policies and actual practices for handling the questions of type (2) will determine whether we eventually trend to becoming too restrictive (throwing out all the gray area questions) or too open (throwing out none of them for fear of the repercussions).

If we can't maintain the balance, we'll eventually end up at one of the extremes and the entire spectrum of questions will be black and white, which isn't good.

Journeyman Geek

vs 'OS X 10.37 small earth cat is coming out. It has a new brain machine interface feature. What should I be looking at when getting a BMI?'

One will go 'You should get an acmewiz'

allquixotic

lol @ small earth cat

r.tanner.f

See I just want the one that works and doesn't BSOD my brain

same thing with the monitor, one that works with the gestures in Win 8

allquixotic

4:02 PM

or a list of ones for which the manufacturer declares the product compatible

r.tanner.f

Exactly.

allquixotic

given that the number of them is very small, it should be feasible to compile a near-exhaustive list in a CW

Journeyman Geek

the other would go 'You want something tht won't accidentally frappe your brain, having a flux capasitor may help. You also want ferodyne 2.0 support. Acmewiz makes one'

Oliver Salzburg

@r.tanner.f What most people fail to understand is that SE is not about their problem :P

allquixotic

asking "give me a list of hard drive model numbers that are compatible with IDE/PATA" is a stupid question because the list will be hundreds of megabytes of text

Oliver Salzburg

4:03 PM

Your problem is just the seed to help everyone else with the same problem solve it

allquixotic

asking "give me a list of iPad model numbers".... much shorter

r.tanner.f

@OliverSalzburg Oh I understand that. It's very doubtful I will buy either Windows 8 or a touch screen for it. The pursuit of it is what interests me. Are there monitors out there with no bezel yet that support Windows 8?

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic big fan of B5. I'd name the next version 'deadly nobbling cats'

allquixotic

even Wikipedia, which is not about question and answer but about documenting facts, considers "lists of things" to be on-topic and acceptable. And I think Wikipedia's SNR goals are even more stringent than us.

And considering we have the CW feature, it makes tons of sense to use it.

Journeyman Geek

@r.tanner.f: A list thats constantly changing

r.tanner.f

4:05 PM

@JourneymanGeek Constantly being added to, burn it when these monitors hit Newegg. Also if you don't like change you're in the wrong field. ;)

allquixotic

Yeah, so what if it constantly changes? The Comparison of AMD GPUs article on Wikipedia changes daily as drivers support new versions of DirectX/OpenGL and AMD releases new GPUs.

Frequent changes isn't a limitation in a digital context where the cost of updating a wiki page is a few seconds of someone's time and a couple KBs of bandwidth.

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic You still need someone to do it

allquixotic

If you had to mail out the entire list on paper to millions of people, frequent changes would be annoying

Journeyman Geek

@allquixotic: well, is there a right answer tho?

Could we just, I donno, make a official or unofficial SU product wiki to do the same role?

allquixotic

@JourneymanGeek Are there any CW questions on any SE site that have a "right answer" in mind when they're converted into a CW?

(it's a rhetorical question; I'm expecting the answer to be "no")

Journeyman Geek

4:07 PM

@allquixotic: I hardly use CW. Least one of mine DID have a right answer. Just many ways to approach it

allquixotic

CWs are usually lists. What else could they be? Usually it's when there's many possible answers and listing them out in a laundry list makes more sense than having hundreds of separate answers by separate people with various up and downvotes.

Sometimes the thing being listed is steps to troubleshoot something. Sometimes the thing being listed is product names. What's the difference?

If CWs aren't meant to be used, remove the feature. Otherwise, let us use it.

You want black and white? There's one for you. ^^

Journeyman Geek

lol

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic That question sounds rhetorical even though the two things are inherently different :P

You guys obviously don't get to see enough of the garbage content on the site...

allquixotic

And no, I'm not being an argumentative arsehole just to rile up controversy and flamewars. I'm just trying to exhibit an alternative viewpoint that I think needs to be stirred into the proverbial sambar comprising the philosophy of our operations on this site.

Tom Wijsman

@JourneymanGeek CW actually only on answers unless a mod were to do it, but even then, there's rarely a case for that after the last blog post on CW.

Journeyman Geek

4:10 PM

lol

allquixotic

Whether my viewpoint is adopted whole-heartedly and completely is irrelevant to me. The fact that it's considered and some concessions are taken from it, would be more than enough.

Journeyman Geek

@TomWijsman: I was thinking of the mad DNA question

lol. @jokerdino: you DO know we have a tag fixing session going on, right?

allquixotic

Think of my viewpoint as the asafoetida of sambar. Smells like turd when raw, but when cooked into the dish, it adds a nice pungent aroma.

Journeyman Geek

lol

and you add tiny amounts of it.

allquixotic

Sorry; I've been having a South Indian gastronomical revelation.

Journeyman Geek

4:13 PM

is entirely familiar with sambar. its sort of a national dish, if the region of my origin was a nation.

XD

Its also added into rasam

allquixotic

I ate a bunch of stuff I really enjoyed at a South Indian restaurant yesterday.

Journeyman Geek

If you don't know what it is, learn ;p

allquixotic

all vegetarian.

Journeyman Geek

I wonder if its a branch of anywhere I know of? ;p

allquixotic

My boss said vegetarians live longer. A guy who wasn't vegetarian said "by one day". But then my boss said, moments matter... how many missed moments do you have from eating meat... there are 60 seconds in a minute, 3600 seconds in an hour... :P

Journeyman Geek

4:15 PM

lol. See its a conspiracy, we convert people by great cooking ;p

allquixotic

Most of the people I work with, except my boss, come from Andhra Pradesh or Tamil Nadu. Boss is from up north. New Delhi, I think.

Or at least somewhere in Delhi.

I can tell the difference between spoken Hindi and Telugu from working here so long with them.

Journeyman Geek

lol. Its fairly obvious, if you have heard it enough

or tamil.

allquixotic

Can't say I understand it, though. Not at all. The only languages I really understand intuitively are derived from Latin in some way: English, French, Spanish, Italian, Neapolitan, Portuguese, Catalan...

Fluent in English and Spanish with intermediate French and Italian knowledge. Bits of Portuguese, Neapolitan and Catalan from Italian/Spanish cognates.

Journeyman Geek

understand no, differenciate, ya ;p

allquixotic

Well, what do you speak?

Journeyman Geek

4:27 PM

english and tamil, very little french

allquixotic

You know what would be awesome? If medicine allowed our lifespans to be 500 years, we could spend the first ~50 years of our lives learning. You could teach someone at least two dozen languages before they even start their professional career. And the entire known knowledge tree of mathematics, physics and engineering.

The grades could just keep going. Kindergarten, first grade, second grade, ... 12th grade, .... 49th grade, 50th grade.

Journeyman Geek

lol

allquixotic

A 50 year old adult who's as healthy as they were when they turned 21. No signs of hair loss, perfect teeth, perfect skin, no heart conditions whatsoever.

High metabolism and vigorous healing of wounds.

HackToHell

you are a 50 yr old ? :P

allquixotic

4:43 PM

No

@HackToHell imagining a future :P

HackToHell

:P

Tom Wijsman

@JourneymanGeek When do we not have such things going on? :D

@HackToHell: Oh hi!

allquixotic

5:07 PM

@TomWijsman Oh hi!

lolwtf, someone edited this question for grammar and didn't change "driffen" to "driven" superuser.com/posts/490018/revisions

sidran32

1

Q: Keyboard-Shortcut driffen Utility to move windows around on multiscreen setup

I am looking for a utility to move windows around on a multi-screen (usually dual screen) setup. So with a keyboard shortcut (or mouse click) I would like to send a windows to another monitor. I am using this functionality a lot when I give presentations. I'll look up something on my main screen...

windows linux osx screen

I know it specifies utilities but I think this question would work well as a list of OS-native tips for doing the proposed task.

nhinkle

The Super User Windows 8 Challenge

9

allquixotic

@nhinkle "Windows 8" is not "here". Until October 26.

sidran32

Hah, my Win 8 ultrabook/tablet thingy is supposed to ship on the 26th. So after it comes, I should be quickly getting up to speed on Win 8 and may try posting a bunch on it.

nhinkle

@allquixotic yeah there's supposed to be a blurb about how you can try it out and stuff. But they apparently forgot that.

sidran32

5:19 PM

@allquixotic Many people with MSDN access have already gotten the RTM.

allquixotic

It's pretty ridiculous (in my mind) that it takes Microsoft three months from the time that they create the final build of their software until the time that they distribute it to people

sidran32

For instance, @JeffAtwood. :)

allquixotic

How freaking hard is it to throw it up on Microsoft Store for digital download?!?!

sidran32

From what I can gather, Jeff Atwood is a pretty big fan of Windows 8 and is using it full time.

allquixotic

@sidran32 yeah yeah, but most people aren't going to pay out the nose for MSDN, and using it for anything other than "evaluation purposes" from TechNet is against the license agreement.

Of course he is. He's an ex-MicroSoftie!

sidran32

5:21 PM

@allquixotic is that so? I had (have?) MSDNAA and got a lot of Windows OS images for free. I don't see how they can be for anything but general use.

allquixotic

@sidran32 MSDN != TechNet

MSDN OS licenses are for "development" purposes, which you can pretty much justify doing just about anything with it.

sidran32

@allquixotic Well, I meant TechNet, then'

allquixotic

TechNet licenses are strictly for "evaluation" purposes, and expressly forbid doing anything with a "production configuration".

studiohack

How do KVMs work with laptops?

nhinkle

@allquixotic it takes a while to iron out the bugs. Also, RTM is when it goes to manufacturers, allowing them to start getting it ready for deploying on machines. Microsoft likes everyone to get it at the same time.

sidran32

5:22 PM

@studiohack Same as a computer. Hook it up to the keyboard/mouse (USB, likely), and VGA output.

studiohack

if I use a KVM with my laptop and a monitor, can I have dual monitors when the shared monitor is switched to the laptop?

sidran32

@studiohack Yes, but the second monitor will never switch.

allquixotic

@nhinkle Still, it's pretty ridiculous. If the software isn't ready for general use when you RTM, then you shouldn't be RTMing at that time. If it is ready for general use, then friggin' make it available. There's no need to make everyone wait 3 months when you could just sell it on the Microsoft Store.

studiohack

(and single monitor when switched to the desktop)

@sidran32 hey! what do you mean?

and hey @nhinkle!

allquixotic

I can understand three months to create the hard copy boxes, but we don't need no stinkin' boxes.

studiohack

5:23 PM

another view of Spock, eh?

nhinkle

@allquixotic it would certainly be nice to get it earlier, I agree

@studiohack tablet spock!

studiohack

@nhinkle what, for Win8 RT? :P

sidran32

@studiohack Laptop/Desktop -> (USB/VGA) -> KVM -> Monitor + keyboard + mouse

nhinkle

@studiohack yes, to celebrate tablets. And our contest!

sidran32

The laptop or desktop can still have a second monitor hooked up to another free display connection apart from the KVM.

studiohack

5:24 PM

@nhinkle which started 23 minutes ago! and no guidelines, public yet anyway

nhinkle

@studiohack wdym no guidelines?

studiohack

@sidran32 meaning that the built in monitor on the laptop will never go blank?

sidran32

@studiohack Yes, if you have "extend" enabled on the laptop.

studiohack

so I can switch the free standing monitor between the laptop and desktop @sidran32? and the laptop will never go blank, the laptop's monitor will always stay with the laptop, right? sorry, this is all so hard to explain

sidran32

@studiohack Yup. I used to do that for a while, actually. And still, yes.

studiohack

5:26 PM

@nhinkle where are the public guidlines for the contest?

nhinkle

@studiohack win8challenge.com

studiohack

@nhinkle I've only seen that because I'm a mod as well as seen it pinned here in chat...

MSU post?

nhinkle

There's supposed to be a banner going up shortly.

But the page said "coming soon..." as of an hour ago, so the fact that it's visible now = public time as far as i'm concerned

sidran32

When you hook up an external VGA monitor to a laptop, it doesn't have to be the only display enabled. You can extend or clone across both displays. The KVM only knows about the external monitor, and that will switch.

studiohack

@nhinkle okay. sorry, I haven't been involved, perhaps I shouldn't ask things just yet. :P

sidran32

5:27 PM

@nhinkle @studiohack I'm not a mod and I could see it.

The KVM keeps power going to the display so the laptop won't think you disconnected the external monitor when you switch the KVM to the other computer.

studiohack

@sidran32 I see! I have a desktop and a laptop, but I'd like to have dual monitors on the laptop while sharing the screen with the desktop, and it would be awesome to switch on the fly.

sidran32

That's doable no problem.

allquixotic

imho win8challenge should be offline/down/under construction until October 26, since Microsoft is playing by the rule of "it's not released until October 26", so we should follow the same. So as not to allow the people who can afford MSDN (or are lucky enough to have MSDNAA) to get a headstart and win everything. :P

studiohack

@sidran32 as in, I know the guidelines already, since I was involved with the behind the scenes planning

nhinkle

@allquixotic we discussed this at length. Decided to start 1 week before, to give it some time to start drumming up interest. Also, anyone can download a trial version now (this was supposed to be on the contest page, I'll ask them about it), and a lot of super users do have early access

sidran32

5:29 PM

@studiohack Yup. Though personally, I switched from using a KVM with my desktop and laptop to just using Synergy and sharing the keyboard and mouse that way. No more dual screens from one computer, but I don't have to switch control for the mouse+keyboard with a button. Just move the mouse over to the laptop and brings keyboard focus along with it.

studiohack

@sidran32 I have separate mouse/keyboard for the two machines already. I don't mind that. it's that I need shared monitor support.

sidran32

However, it also operates over a network, and I have a feeling that if someone decided to sniff packets, they could essentially keylog anything that I'm typing onto the laptop (since the keyboard is hooked up to the desktop).

@studiohack Aha. Well still, a KVM should work fine. You don't even need to hook up the keyboard and mouse if you don't want.

studiohack

@sidran32 that's what I've been thinking. KVMs are also pretty cheap, it seems

sidran32

@studiohack They sure can be. I have a simple one here which I used to use. Just a couple USB inputs for keyboard and mouse (or anything else, really), and VGA passthrough for the displays.

Though you can also get more expensive ones, they scale pretty cheaply.

allquixotic

@nhinkle Does everyone who meets the criteria of participation get that reward, or is it a raffle for each item?

studiohack

5:32 PM

@sidran32 yeah. for $30, we have one at work that supports four cpus

allquixotic

Also, for the levels that have multiple bullets, is it an and or an or boolean operator between the bullets?

sidran32

synergy-foss.org/wiki/Security#Authentication_and_Encryption

Aha, I was correct.

@studiohack Yeah. Go for it!

studiohack

@sidran32 I don't need that one, but I might get that one since I know that product. Thanks for answering my questions, saves me a bit of time! :)

sidran32

@studiohack No problemo :)

store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/…

I really can't wait until I get this :)

Some people don't like that form factor. I think it's sexy as hell.

I love straight lines, angles, and corners. I find the utilitarian/mechanical look to be very aesthetically pleasing.

On technology, anyway. :)

allquixotic

@sidran32 I like the size, weight, construction, and features of something like a ThinkPad X61. Very utilitarian. But worlds more durable than most of the dreck they'll be shipping out as Win8 tablet PCs.

nhinkle

5:36 PM

@allquixotic check out the full contest rules for #'s of items available. Some are raffled. Everyone gets a t-shirt at the least.

allquixotic

Not planning to buy one mainly for durability concerns. Also, I have a Nexus 7, with which I'm completely satisfied, for doing any computing not at my desk. Like on the couch, in bed, out on the deck, or walking around a busy city.

studiohack

@sidran32 I want the Thinkpad Twist. :P

r.tanner.f

@sidran32 I'd tap that. ;)

2

sidran32

@allquixotic As far as Thinkpads go, I think the T510 looks really sexy :)

@r.tanner.f Yus.

@studiohack Should be nice. That was the form factor I used in college with my HP Pavilion tx2500z. :)

allquixotic

@sidran32 I have my self-built desktop (32GB RAM, 8TB hardware RAID storage, Radeon HD7970, Core i7 3770K) for stationary traditional computing; my ThinkPad T530 full-fat laptop for having a desktop replacement "on the go"; my Nexus 7 for content consumption, navigation and brief communication on the go; and my smartphone for internet connectivity / voice.

definitely more than enough devices. I can't see where a twisty tablet-laptop-thingy would enhance my digital experience.

sidran32

5:39 PM

@studiohack I also find the swivel is really handy when quickly showing someone something on your screen. Instead of moving the whole laptop, just swivel the screen around and then swivel it back. :P

studiohack

@sidran32 I do like that idea :P

me and @allquixotic had a discussion over this, Mac vs PC, and form factors and such :)

allquixotic

@sidran32 why the T510 and not the T530?

sidran32

I never thought of it but once I realized I could do it, it became really convenient.

@allquixotic Well, my cousin got one of those for college. So I got to play with it a little. :P

It was actually a special deal through the college. My uncle asked if he recommended they do that or get something from Staples or whatever. I said, emphatically, to go with the Thinkpad. Plus they provide on-campus support for them, which I also said is essential for a college student. :P

A college campus is basically a rugged stress-test for any computer equipment.

allquixotic

yeah, and my ThinkPad X-series models always got me through college lecture.

plenty of battery life for multiple classes. easy suspend and resume so I can walk around from class to class without having to put it away. small enough that even in cramped auditoriums I could sit it on my lap

nhinkle

@allquixotic I have an x230. It's the perfect college laptop.

allquixotic

5:43 PM

I worry that with a tablet with a "detachable" or "snap-on" keyboard, using it on your lap in a constrained environment might cause the pieces to come apart and your keyboard (or the tablet) slams into the floor.

@nhinkle yeah... at the time I was in college the X60 and X61 were the latest.

nhinkle

@allquixotic MS showed videos of them dangling the surface by its keyboard, and it didn't come off. Apparently it takes a pretty good tug to remove it.

allquixotic

I switched to the T series when I started having more room than a Japanese prison inmate.. you know, in an actual job with a full desk, not some little cubbyhole in a lecture hall crammed with 300 souls.

also more money than a prison inmate. that helps too.

Wow, that Vaio only goes for 4 hours and 45 minutes (advertised)?!?! Pretty sad IMHO.

Nexus 7 gets 8 hours of real life usage, and in my experience advertised battery life is 10 - 20% higher than what you'll get in real usage, especially after you break the battery in a little bit and it shows some mild to moderate signs of wearing

so the Vaio is probably looking at about 3:30 - 4:00 after the first three months of use

for me that's just not good enough. that's the kind of battery life I've come to expect of desktop replacements, not whizzy new mobile devices.

nhinkle

/me strokes x230 with 10-12 hrs battery life

Tom Wijsman

@nhinkle Are the users listed on that page?

Darth Android

@nhinkle How do I display my personal win8challenge stats on my user profile?

nhinkle

5:55 PM

@DarthAndroid @TomWijsman I'm not sure. That all should be there, but I haven't seen it so far.

Darth Android

My other question is how long does the contest go on for?

Derp

nhinkle

@DarthAndroid that info is on the website

Darth Android

Thought the rules was expanded when it wasn't.

nhinkle

> The Windows 8 Challenge will run for three weeks, starting on Friday, Oct 19 5:00 PM UTC and ending on Friday, Nov 9 5:00 PM UTC.

allquixotic

the "Contest Rules" thingy should really auto-expand or say "Click Here" or something, since you wouldn't really know it's an expander unless you view source or hover over it with a mouse. Ironic that Win8 is a lot about touchscreens lol

Darth Android

6:01 PM

Also, sadface that I won't get to actually play with Win8 until Oct. 26 :(

r.tanner.f

* sigh * User tells me there's no Internet. I tell user reboot router. User asks me how. I tell him unplug it, plug it back in. User says it doesn't light up. I ask user for picture so I have god-dammed proof that the router is borked. User sends picture of plugged in router with no lights. Co-worker drives two hours to replace router. Co-worker finds an 'on' switch. Turns it on. Router works. FML.

3

Darth Android

notalwaysright.com <- submit?

Oliver Salzburg

@r.tanner.f This is typically followed by "You know, there's an on/off switch on the device?" - "Oh, I really know nothing about computers." As if you needed to?!

r.tanner.f

I think the most painful part is that I had him unplug everything and move it to another outlet, just to troubleshoot the power situation. He must have seen the switch. -_-

This is the same fellow who understood 1) Push 'Menu' to be "Push 1 for Menu". I love the guy to death but damn.

allquixotic

lollllllllllllllll

new gravatar

Einsteins Grandson

6:47 PM

hey guys

anybody here?

Darth Android

Ssssh, nobody say anything. Maybe he won't find us!

What's up Einsteins? :)

Einsteins Grandson

is there a way to make the network device icon invisible in windows 7?

i dont see it once i unplug the cable from the network

when i plug it in i see it again

Darth Android

Like, hide it from the system tray?

Einsteins Grandson

no

in '"network connections'' in control panel

i remember that i could see the icon in windows xp

all the time

Darth Android

You're looking for the network adapater icon, which represents your network card?

Einsteins Grandson

6:54 PM

yes

Darth Android

Network & Sharing Center -> Change Adapter Settings ? Is that what you're after?

(it should take you to a screen that shows all the adapters on your system )

Einsteins Grandson

i did it

once i unplug the cable, it disappears

Darth Android

It shouldn't disappear from the "Network Connections" screen unless you're unplugging a USB network adapter

allquixotic

@DarthAndroid Correct

Einsteins Grandson

i used to use ADSL in the past

allquixotic

6:59 PM

The network adapter will always be there if it's integrated into the motherboard, unless you disable it in the BIOS. If it's an add-in expansion card, you'd have to physically remove the card or disable the slot in the BIOS to make it go away. Or uninstall its driver completely.

When you used ADSL you probably plugged it in over USB, so the connection only appeared when you had it plugged in.

An ethernet card is different. It's always present in the system as a dedicated piece of hardware.

nhinkle

@DarthAndroid you can download a trial now. That's supposed to be in there, but it's not right now. I'm trying to get ahold of the right people, but it'll probably be 6-8 hours :P

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