Root Access

bwDraco

16:00

@NotDog Caring and paying attention are not bad things.

Rahul2001

@NotDog s/best friend is//

That should've made it correct grammar

Not Dog

2 mins ago, by Not Dog

That would've involved me actually caring and/or paying attention

Rahul2001

@allquixotic or that ^

allquixotic

@bwDraco it's pretty obvious that either (1) people are going to struggle with very limited SSD space; (2) deal with horrible write cycles of that WD BiCS4 stuff; (3) pay ridiculous money for relatively modest SSD space like 1-2TB; or (4) demand for HDDs will go up significantly as a supplement when people can't get SSDs they need

Rahul2001

@NotDog I'll keep my savage comebacks to myself

var firstName

16:03

Ooh

pupper is here?

:o

bwDraco

Yeah. This is looking rather bleak. The NAND shortage is really hurting everyone.

var firstName

3D nand needs to be a thing

like

more good thing

allquixotic

most people who have neither money nor much awareness of the problem are going to be stuck with (1), and basically will have to uninstall old games, backup stuff to the cloud, delete old pictures, use disk cleanup utilities, and otherwise scrimp and save space on their $1000 laptop with a 256 GB SSD

bwDraco

@varfirstName It already is. Planar NAND is quickly becoming obsolete. It has lower endurance and density than 3D NAND.

allquixotic

or carry around a ~~paperweight~~ 2.5" HDD enclosure

bwDraco

16:04

lol

var firstName

draco

you're good at windows right?

allquixotic

techies who know the market will either buy WORM storage for WORM workloads and be happy, or outlay half their salary for decent capacities of MLC or TLC as needed

bwDraco

There are still a few budget products on the market that use planar TLC NAND, but the market is quickly moving to 3D NAND. However, the MLC variety is becoming increasingly difficult to source.

@varfirstName Hmm?

Avery

@varfirstName if you want to talk to me, I've got my contact info on s.afe.space

allquixotic

or use tiered storage like maxCache or L2ARC/ZIL as available

var firstName

16:05

I'm being forced to make a PowerApps app

Avery

hit the button in middle of screen.

bwDraco

I wouldn't be able to help here, sorry.

Bob

@allquixotic $1000 is cheap for a laptop, and 256 GB is quite a lot of space...

Not Dog

I'm just glad Intel have their 3D MLC and TLC V-NAND in volume production now

var firstName

people use XMPP?

:o

allquixotic

16:06

@Bob says Mr. 10+ TB of storage :P

bwDraco

Heck, 64 GB of NAND is more than most for a sub-$300 laptop.

Avery

@varfirstName yeah

Not Dog

Thank god Samsung finally have some competition

Bob

Videos, maybe (DSLR) photos, games. Not much that takes space on a laptop.

var firstName

Avery

Are you good at PowerApps at all?

Not Dog

16:07

IIRC at least one other company is producing 128-layer V-NAND this year, thereby overtaking Samsung

Bob

@allquixotic Yea but I have one laptop with 256+256 and one tabtop with 128 and one laplet with 64... and they're all fine.

allquixotic

@bwDraco I think for most people having some kind of software tiered storage would be amazing, for both desktop and laptop workloads

Not Dog

So I might actually have some choice for a 2TB M.2 SSD in the near future

allquixotic

something akin to maxCache; hybrid SSDs suck because the SSD size is always so small

var firstName

I have a few 300 GB drives I wanna use

they're SAS though

allquixotic

16:07

maybe a hybrid SSD with a 2 or 4TB HDD and a 256GB SSD would be good

bwDraco

@allquixotic This is where Optane Memory comes into play.

var firstName

gotta put em in a tired server

Avery

@varfirstName no, I prefer coding stuff myself

Bob

@allquixotic Optane!

allquixotic

@Bob Optane's capacity is so small though :S

var firstName

16:08

I do as well, my boss is having me try PowerApps

Bob

@allquixotic 16GB and 32GB... just a bit pricey

Burgi

we are on the 5th take of this "natural office environment"

Bob

32 is a good chunk of cache

Not Dog

@allquixotic It's still 4x bigger than a SSHD

var firstName

just to see if they'd be good and easy deploy

Bob

16:08

^ that

allquixotic

yay, Optane lets me boot up fast? but for actual moving data it's not worth much

Bob

SSHDs have like 4 GB of NAND

bwDraco

Optane is still too expensive. The underlying media is still some $2/GB.

Bob

which is a joke

allquixotic

32 GB can't even keep the data files of a single game I play hot

bwDraco

16:08

@Bob 8 GB is typical.

var firstName

wow chat is getting fast

bwDraco

May 14 at 16:25, by bwDraco

...gave the new Optane Memory some thought: $44 for 16 GB and $77 for 32 GB means that the cost for the underlying 3D XPoint is probably in the ballpark of $2/GB.

var firstName

lets keep it this way c:

djsmiley2k

@Burgi o_O?

Filming?

var firstName

yea

Not Dog

16:09

@allquixotic It'll keep the early/frequently loaded part of the game hot enough

var firstName

like seeing if they make the cut

Bob

@allquixotic It's great for things like running VMs

Not Dog

Not dissimilar to Windows, the install might be >20GB but only ~1GB is needed to make startup fast

allquixotic

I suppose so

Bob

@allquixotic Lots of games have a lot of unused assets (other languages, etc.)

But, hey, ship it all in one package, sure.

Not Dog

16:10

And after initial startup many games will just background stream the rest so loading speed isn't too important

Burgi

@djsmiley2k yes

djsmiley2k

just have 128Gb already.

@Burgi erm, why?

Not Dog

Or you could play simple games like Civ or Cities Skylines or Transport Fever which are <10GB total

Or KSP!

Bob

djsmiley2k

or nethack and dwarf fortress.

bwDraco

16:11

16 mins ago, by bwDraco

Good NAND is a dying breed, and it seems only Samsung is able to get away with producing premium 3D MLC NAND for consumer SSDs because they have the enthusiast market cornered.

Bob

@allquixotic (@JourneymanGeek) I'm beginning to think I should've waited for the SSD dedibox :P

Not Dog

TBH I have 1.25TB SSD space in my laptop and IMO it's rather wasteful

Most of it's just cold data

bwDraco

IMFT 3D MLC NAND has been hard to find and has not been a stellar performer.

Bob

2-3 simultaneous Windows VMs on a single HDD (on ZFS) is slooooooooow

well, it's fine once they're up

but startup ... thrashes hard

Not Dog

@Bob Yeah

So slow that I refuse to not have an SSD now

Bob

16:11

and installing one from another (WDS) is a bad idea

djsmiley2k

@Bob 4x the read/writes!

Not Dog

Startup/shutdown/reboot one VM for Windows Update while the other one is still updating... you end up waiting 30 minutes for that crap

Burgi

42 mins ago, by Burgi

i also just found out they are filming the office for an award

djsmiley2k

@NotDog are you deduping them too?

@Burgi lol

Not Dog

@djsmiley2k Ext4 doesn't support dedup

Bob

16:13

@NotDog and dedup is very memory-heavy on ZFS

not worth it

var firstName

oh guys

I learned what thrashing is today

Not Dog

@Bob My server has too much RAM tbh.

bwDraco

tomshardware.com/news/adata-ultimate-su900-tlc-mlc,33183.html

Bob

I do have lz4 compression enabled on mine though

Not Dog

@varfirstName urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thrashing

bwDraco

16:13

The fact that SLC buffering is necessary is not exactly the best sign.

var firstName

I know

it's paging stuff right

Bob

@NotDog Your server (probably) doesn't have enough RAM for ZFS dedup.

Not Dog

@Bob Lies!

Isn't the guidance like 1GB RAM per 1TB storage?

Bob

@NotDog ~6 GB dedup RAM per TB capacity, x4 becaus dedup tables are capped at 1/2 of ARC.

24 GB ARC per TB of storage?

Not Dog

Meh, I only have 300GB SSD storage and 64GB RAM

Bob

16:15

You can kinda get around the x4 by using L2ARC, I suppose

@NotDog Ah...

that... could actually work :P

Not Dog

Or tweaking the ARC limits?

Bob

@NotDog nah. dedup is hard capped at 1/4 of ARC

I think

Not Dog

@Bob IT'S OPEN SOURCE, I'LL SPEND FIVE MONTHS FIGURING OUT THE CODE AND DELETING THE ONE LINE THAT CAPS IT IF I WANT TO

bwDraco

I need new hardware to properly play with a ZFS system.

More money :(

Bob

@NotDog lol. I think there was a reason for it...

anyway, guidance now is never use dedup

but with only 300 GB storage it's probably doable. ish.

@bwDraco if you just want to play with one, fire up a VM

or grab a $5/month server or something

djsmiley2k

16:18

never dedup?

well that's killed zfs for me D:

Bob

@djsmiley2k meh, lz4 takes care of most of it. most data doesn't dedup cleanly anyway

and CoW snapshots still work well

djsmiley2k

bit level dedup!

Burgi

ffs

Bob

whoops.

Burgi

take 6th

Bob

16:19

s/1\/2/1\/4/

1/4 of ARC is the cap

djsmiley2k

@Burgi lol

Bob

@NotDog personally I'm just happy my server's up... gonna avoid touching the messy innards of the filesystem :P

bwDraco

@Bob Typo.

djsmiley2k

getting to the point where I'm wondering if someone is being deliberately bad, or the crew don't actually know wtf they want to film.

bwDraco

Where's the slash before the 4?

Bob

16:20

@bwDraco thanks

djsmiley2k

@Burgi have you concidered this is all part of an elaborate hack?

bwDraco

:P

Bob

@bwDraco you didn't see anything :P

Burgi

@djsmiley2k my screens are locked

djsmiley2k

yours might be... but what about those postits?

@Burgi and what if they don't care about the data

'here's a video of where to enter, this is where all the machines are, the safe is here...'

Sorry, suspicious mind XD

Burgi

16:25

> Password must be between 6 and 14 characters and may not contain spaces

my passwords are 15 characters >.<

Rahul2001

#crappyinfosec

Bob

@Burgi This was my afternoon.

see also (and surrounding convo; it gets worse?):

13 hours ago, by Bob

djsmiley2k

@Burgi hsbc used to (still does?) limit you to 9.

bwDraco

Legacy systems.

djsmiley2k

iSeries, indeed @bwDraco

bwDraco

16:31

Every change must be extensively validated, and validation is expensive.

djsmiley2k

indeeeeed

Bob

@bwDraco This isn't a legacy system. It's a braindead dev/manager.

Others (banking?) mgiht be, but that's still a terrible excuse.

allquixotic

IBM likes their single-letter offerings

"Do more with i", "Do even more with z", ... :P

z is their flagship / most expensive

i is kinda in the same vein as the legacy "minicomputers", right?

djsmiley2k

iSeries stuff is still big

Bob

for context, my link is from a mcdonalds app/website. a brand new app. and the password restrictions (on the 'older' website) are worse than they were last year

djsmiley2k

16:43

big

Bob

apparently 12 characters were too long and took up too much DB space so now you're allowed up to 10

in this economy, every byte counts!

djsmiley2k

lol

let the user enter 12, only validate 1!

DavidPostill

@Bob In MacD every bite counts

djsmiley2k

So THAT'S why facebook doesn't check case.

Rahul2001

@DavidPostill it shut down today

The chain

In Delhi

allquixotic

16:45

@djsmiley2k not as big as Z series mainframes

DavidPostill

@Rahul2001 Really? Do you know why?

Rahul2001

@DavidPostill management issues

allquixotic

Rahul2001

economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/cons-products/food/…

@DavidPostill

DavidPostill

> highly-placed sources disclosed that CPRL failed to get the mandatory regulatory health licences renewed

djsmiley2k

16:48

nice.

fecal burgers for all.

along with those fecal coffees

metro.co.uk/2017/06/29/…

I don't even...

DavidPostill

@djsmiley2k lactose intolerance is not very nice ...

djsmiley2k

Nod

I'm slightly/a lot, depending on what I eat

Milk? Fine, ice cream? I SCREAAAM

D:

doesn't stop me tho :/

Bob

@djsmiley2k lol. careful saying that around @DavidPostill; he gave me a list of lactose-free ice cream last time :P

djsmiley2k

Nice

I just eat whatever, but with the knowledge of what may happen

The worst is ben and jerrys, nto sure why

Bob

@djsmiley2k vitacost.com/vitacost-lactase-enzyme-10-350-fcc-units

DavidPostill

17:03

@Bob Did you get a chance to try some? ;)

var firstName

David, are you lactose intolerant?

Bob

@DavidPostill saw it, but got distracted by the Sara Lee honeycomb & butterscotch above :P

which actually went surprisingly okay

var firstName

David

The problem was many things

mostly a tiny page file

#Thrashing

Bob

got Connoisseur more recently, which was decidedly not okay

DavidPostill

@varfirstName I don't think so. I can handle milk and yoghurt but not cheese.

var firstName

17:05

oh

so most likely something to do with the protein and fat in cheese

DavidPostill

Even the smell of some cheeses makes me want to throw up.

Bob

@DavidPostill that's not lactose-related :P

most cheeses have less than milk anyway

var firstName

> "I don't think so"

Bob

@varfirstName I fail to see your point.

var firstName

he wasn't suggesting the allergy was lactose related

Bob

17:08

uh huh

var firstName

was that /s

DavidPostill

I could be rennet intolerant - but I've never bothered to have the appropriate tests.

Bob

and the :P didn't tip you off?

var firstName

I'm sorry.

I'm socially inept

have been, probably will always be

Bob

@DavidPostill is it just nausea from the smell, or a learned reaction from bad experiences eating it in the past?

DavidPostill

17:10

@Bob Both, I think.

Bob

interesting

DavidPostill

I can't remember ever having liked cheese, but Mum says I used to like it when I was very young.

Bob

and a bit :( ... I love cheese (despite certain difficulties)

@DavidPostill any type in particular?

DavidPostill

The only cheese I can eat is the small amount in Tiramisu :)

Bob

some do have a very strong smell

DavidPostill

17:12

@Bob No idea.

var firstName

David

Not even a cheeseburger?

I feel very sorry for you if you can't enjoy a good cheeseburger

Bob

well, cheddar would be the obvious one to have tried at some point :P

DavidPostill

@varfirstName It's OK I don't miss it. I have bacon burgers instead. Yum.

var firstName

but..

bacon cheeseburgers

:'(

DavidPostill

It doesn't matter if you don't enjoy something you don't like. You just find something else instead :)

Rahul2001

17:17

I like cheese.

But it's expensive here

djsmiley2k

I love cheese

but again, can't eat loaaaaaaaaaaaaaads

(not that it stops me)

Stronger the cheese, the better

I want it to melt off my face as I try to eat it.

allquixotic

so sharp it cuts your intestines?

djsmiley2k

amen!

Cheese with so much bite, it'll rip your throat out!

djsmiley2k

17:48

hhmmmm

word moaning about licence

already ran repair from control panel :/

lets try a new key :X

Rahul2001

@BenN I found a solution to your problem

djsmiley2k

FF8 Charity Gunblade Part 1.

►

Rahul2001

1. Authentication: `Password+time` hashed and sent.
2. Response sent back, encrypted with hash
3. Commands sent, each encrypted with the hash (which keeps changing, obviously)

HA!

Avery

@Rahul2001 what kind of hash though

var firstName

#MD5 ~~is worst hash~~

Avery

17:58

@Nıck might be able to help with his hashes.

djsmiley2k

:D

how do you unhash the password and time?

you must be able to, to make sure it's correct...

@Avery oooooooooo low blow.

Rahul2001

@Avery sha256 is pretty decent afaik?

Apparently it's too fast

meh, whatever

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