Root Access

bwDraco

00:02

The old machine, with monitor, probably pulls 100+ W including monitor, and that's at idle. That Stream 14 pulls closer to 5 W in typical use.

I don't think electrical cost is going to be that big a factor, but the amount of heat the old desktop generates is very disconcerting.

I don't have a working power meter, unfortunately, but the processor routinely gets pushed to a full or near-full load by the slightest Web workload.

Gets used about two hours a day, often left idle for a few more hours...

Electrical difference probably isn't huge, but that chops maybe about $10 a year in electrical costs.

The whole station probably draws about 120 W of power on average.

Well, at four hours a day, that would work out to about $30 a year.

Hennes

I almost have schadefeude here.

My dad has the same attitude.

Journeyman Geek

also, I think if its anything like my steam 11, it comes with office 365 for a year...

lol

as does mine ;p

Hennes

Always repair, even is it is more expensive than a newer and more modern thing, and even if it remains half broken and gets tossed out a bit later.

Journeyman Geek

@Hennes my dad dosen't even want to repair

bwDraco

I'm going to need a power meter to make any truly accurate assessments.

Journeyman Geek

00:13

or minor upgrade

bwDraco

Last I checked, the tower pulls about 60-70W at idle. It's probably closer to 80-100W now given the greater than usual load on the machine. Monitor's another 30W (it's 22" CCFL).

Hennes

My tower is at 57.5W/ right now.

Journeyman Geek

(I got "I want to throw this machine out of a window" 2-3 times a day at one point. And he still didn't want to upgrade)

Hennes

Two screens excluded,

Journeyman Geek

lol

My setup's probably power hungry

but meh

Hennes

00:18

'Old tower was at three times that number

Journeyman Geek

He's still on the same machine now

replaced the hard drive with an SSD and installed windows 10

Hennes

Granted. Modern skylake plus two SSDs, one HDD, more modern graphics and 10Gbit NIc vs
Old Nehalen, 1 SSD, five SATA/SAS HDD, older graphics (though an 5870 was rather low power at ilde for that time) and HW RAID (idle at 20W)

Journeyman Geek

and, no mouse or keyboard on the windows xp box. whut?

Hennes

I guess it is a safety feature. No user input, no need to power on. :)

Journeyman Geek

;)

my guess is its the last set of updates

shrug

I shoulda backed up ;p

Hennes

00:27

Wow, I just realised I still have an XP installation. It is on a pendrive though.

Journeyman Geek

external keyboard works

Hennes

I guess I should have updated that a while back.

Journeyman Geek

This is just to see how ~~well~~ badly it runs

bwDraco

00:41

My laptop pulls about 20W at idle, with my second monitor pulling an additional 20W or so.

Under a pure CPU load, the machine may pull up to 70W. A gaming workload can cause the system to demand up to 200W.

Journeyman Geek

fixed

Replaced a few drivers from a known good copy

On one hand, this wouldn't happen on a modern copy of windows

on the other I can't do that on a modern copy of windows

bwDraco

01:00

tomshardware.com/reviews/…

SSD went read-only well before it hit the specified endurance limit, at 105.7 TBW (the drive is warranted to 5 years or 144 TBW).

However, this is an intense 4K random write workload, which generally causes far more write amplification than normal consumer workloads.

The drive was in a read-only state; however, it did not brick itself after a power cycle.

(256 GB Intel SSD 600p.)

Bob

01:29

@JourneymanGeek you have me tempted to try something pretty dumb

Journeyman Geek

@Bob >_>

@Bob this is quite literally an expendable system ;p

and this specific build of windows has no windows file protection

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ^

Journeyman Geek

"3.2"

Whaaaaaaat?

@Bob did that once

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Only has Chinese...

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Bob

01:33

And 3.1 has a whole bunch of languages but not English

3.11 has English

@JourneymanGeek en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x#Windows_3.2 o.O

> On November 22, 1993, Microsoft released a Simplified Chinese version of Windows for the Chinese market. A year later, an update was released, which identified itself as Windows 3.2. Thus, Windows 3.2 is an updated version of the Chinese version of Windows 3.1.

> The update was limited to this language version, as it only fixed issues related to the complex input system for the Chinese language.

Dog

Eh

Journeyman Geek

> "Windows 3.2 was generally sold by computer manufacturers with a ten-disk version of MS-DOS"

Bob

> A special version named Windows 3.1 for Central and Eastern Europe was released that allowed use of Cyrillic and had fonts with diacritical marks characteristic of Central and Eastern European languages.

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Bob

Oh, that explains the non-English 3.1

Journeyman Geek

01:34

XP was ONLY 25 DISKS!

Bob

It defaulted to Hungarian

Journeyman Geek

makes sense

Bob

Windows 3.11 is a 5 MB download lol

Dog

Even a modern Intel HEDT eats 100w at idle

Bob

wait.

MS-DOS is 11 MB

Journeyman Geek

01:34

0_0

Bob

@Dog My entire system clocked in at something like 150-200W :(

Also I need to figure out this overclocking stuff

maybe I should just switch the mobo over to Intel stock clocks

pretty sure the Asus defaults do some funny shit

Dog

@Bob mine ate 180w idle

Bob

like driving core voltage waaaaay up

Oh, 6.22 is 11 MB. 6.0 is 4 MB

allquixotic

hi

Bob

hi

Dog

01:36

Asus "default/auto" does automatically drive up the core voltage when overclocked, yes

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Windows XP Tablet PC Edition :D

bwDraco

@Dog I'm not sure about that. Intel desktop processors probably idle at about 1-2W a core, assuming you have C-states enabled.

Bob

@Dog how about without explicit overclocking? :\

Dog

Allq came to me in a dream last night. As a ginger and white cat

Bob

I think the only thing I did was turn on XMP

...which might've done it

dammit

Dog

01:37

@Bob works normally for me

Bob

urk

the menus are a mess

when I get home I think I'm just gonna turn on the stock profile and see what happens

bwDraco

AMD Ryzen probably idles lower than Broadwell-E, though.

Dog

My 4670k gets run at 1.00v without overclocking and 1.3v if I set the multiplier to 44x

Which is really only 0.02v over what it needs to run stably anyway

Bob

@Dog What's the default multiplier?

Dog

@Bob 34-38

Bob

01:38

...tbh I have no idea how to read this monitor

The settings say it's set at 1.00V right now. But the monitor shows it going up to ~1.3V. Which might be totally normal.

<== completely new to unlocked Core-i-series CPUs

eh, I'll experiment some later

Dog

@Bob give it to me and get a non-unlocked CPU. Problem solved.

Bob

might've messed up the thermal paste too, but at least the CPU pins survived the accident -_-

@Dog lol. maybe if you were within reasonable shipping distance :P

but yea I'd be happy running the unlocked part at stock (higher-than-locked-stock) clocks

@JourneymanGeek I'm just annoyed MSDN doesn't have Win9x. Cause Sun (Oracle?) sued over Java, IIRC.

Journeyman Geek

0h?

ow

Dog

Arf. Gtx 1070 is too slow and GTX 1080 is too crap value. Where's Vega when you need it

Journeyman Geek

fracking oracle.

bwDraco

01:42

@Dog May 2017, they say.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek actually Sun in this case

> Products Unavailable due to Java-related Settlement

Some products have been removed from Subscriber Downloads due to the terms of Java-related settlements Microsoft made with Sun Microsystems. These products are no longer available from Microsoft in any form, but may be available through third-party resellers or Web sites.

Journeyman Geek

ah

Bob

also means VS 6.0 isn't available

Journeyman Geek

"web sites"

piratebay?

Bob

which is a pain for maintaining VB6 programs

Journeyman Geek

01:43

;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ...actually? I think that might be what MS is cheekily implying :P

w2k is also unavailable :\

Journeyman Geek

did they just remove everything out of support? 0_0

Bob

Funnily enough I think I still have my 98SE CD somewhere

or at least the ISO I cloned off it

Journeyman Geek

tho its plausible win2k came with java

Bob

so I actually do have a legal copy of 98SE :P

@JourneymanGeek Nah, 3.11 and MS-DOS 6.x are still there.

> These include (although not necessarily a comprehensive list): Internet Explorer 5.5, Map Point 2002, Office 2000, Outlook 2000, Project 2000, eMbedded Visual Tools 3.0, Visual Basic (Alpha Systems), Visual Studio 6 MSDE, Visual Studio 6.0, Windows 98, Windows NT 4.0, Back Office Server 2000, SQL Server 7, IIS 6.0, Office XP Developer, Visio 2000, Exchange Server 2000, Exchange Server 5.5, FrontPage 2000 Server Extensions, Handheld PC 2000 SDK, Infrared Communications for Windows 95 DDK, ISA Server 2000, MapPoint 2002, Office 2000, Office 97, Plus! 98, Project 2000, Site Server 3.0, Small…

Dog

01:48

Fuck Oracles

And Sunacle

bwDraco

lol @ "Sunacle"

Dog

02:06

> More recently it has been considered as the setting for special relativity rather than using Minkowski space, since a group contraction reduces the isometry group of de Sitter space to the Poincaré group, allowing a unification of the spacetime translation subgroup and Lorentz transformation subgroup of the Poincaré group into a simple group rather than a semi-simple group. This alternate formulation of special relativity is called de Sitter relativity.

Plz gief phd

bwDraco

02:36

I don't think anyone can ELI5 this within a few paragraphs.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob I though 3.11 and dos had some rediculously long support period.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Nah. MS-DOS support expired 2001.

@JourneymanGeek support.microsoft.com/en-au/lifecycle/search/2397

3.11 too support.microsoft.com/en-au/lifecycle/search/3128

I think XP had the longest support of any MS OS

ME was ditched pretty quick :P support.microsoft.com/en-au/lifecycle/search/6321

Oh, NT 4.0 lasted a while support.microsoft.com/en-au/lifecycle/search/3182

> Starting with Windows 10, the ability to create a DOS startup disk has been removed.

lol

Nick

02:57

Is there any advantage to DOS over the features you get in cmd/terminal/powershell. I mean to say, give me a good reason why anyone would still need DOS when they have a proper OS?

Journeyman Geek

@Nick legacy hardware

also, you do have less abstraction in some cases

bwDraco

gizmodo.com/…

Journeyman Geek

and its a handy way to get around agreements where you must ship an OS with a system

bwDraco

Firefox is becoming a niche browser and this is not really going to help.

Journeyman Geek

why does an ugly logo mean a browser is dying?

@Nick tldr: If you need to ask why you need DOS, you don't ;p

Michael Frank

03:02

@JourneymanGeek It's not even the Firefox logo

Nick

@JourneymanGeek yay, I don't need DOS.

and moz://a .... lolz, that's an epic fail.

bwDraco

I'm just about ready to cut a check to Mozilla. I depend on Firefox for everyday browsing. I just want it to be faster.

E10s has brought some tangible improvements, but it's not enough.

Chrome and Edge are process-per-tab. Firefox uses one process for the tabs and one for the UI with E10s enabled.

I want to see my laptop's 4C/8T Core i7 processor hit 75-100% when I hit Reload All Tabs, not 40%.

I want individual pages to draw faster and with less CPU load.

Firefox does have the least resource consumption of the major browsers, but is this a big deal when most systems have, at minimum, 4 GB of memory and usually 8 GB or more?

Journeyman Geek

rofl

I think most of the systems here are 1-2gb

Bob

03:26

@bwDraco yknow you can toggle that via config option?

bwDraco

@Bob I don't think process per tab is available just yet...

Bob

it's only disabled by default for memory usage and maybe addon compat

bwDraco

Hmm...

I'll look into it.

How stable is this feature?

(Running latest Firefox Developer Edition.)

I can tolerate the occasional browser crash, just not every hour.

Bob

@bwDraco You're asking about the stability of a feature while you're running an unstable browser version? Really now?

bwDraco

Crashes have been rare enough that this is okay.

Bob

03:30

Aug 30 '16 at 0:42, by Bob

Anyway, as far as "remembering", that's just gawker being gawker, i.e. pants-on-head-retarded

Journeyman Geek

lol

Bob

that ~~article~~ blog post is terribad

but oh-so-typical gawker style

bwDraco

Found it, it's dom.ipc.processCount.

Setting to 8.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob so sensationalist clickbait? ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek pretty much

Journeyman Geek

03:32

@bwDraco some addons don't work with it, but you can manually turn it on and its dine

bwDraco

Sep 22 '16 at 14:04, by bwDraco

It's clickbait. Remember that they have a business to run; they need to be able to put food on the table. "'WT1190F' Safely Reenters Earth's Atmosphere" isn't going to attract many readers; "Mysterious Space Debris Hit Earth" will.

Bob

It's not just clickbait, most of the article is pure bullshit AFAICT

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco you also need to realise the crowd here

Bob

Even their own market share graph shows Firefox mostly stable...

Journeyman Geek

We call bullshit bullshit

bwDraco

03:33

Restarting the browser...

Bob

Chrome going up in usage is mostly at the expense of IE/Edge users, not Firefox.

bwDraco

...there we go.

Bob

The text in that ~~article~~ ~~blog post~~ pile of crap contradicts their own data!

bwDraco

I'm concerned about Firefox performing poorly in battery life tests. They have not improved meaningfully. Edge provides the best battery life; Chrome is a close second with their recent improvements.

Bob

Then again, expecting Gawker ~~editors~~ ... posters? to know how to read a graph is apparently too much.

bwDraco

03:35

Given the increasingly mobile user base, Firefox's high CPU usage is going to hurt their market share as Microsoft continues to promote their browser's superior battery life.

Bob

See, that might be a legitimate complaint.

It's also not one that Gawker mentions at all.

Nope.

Journeyman Geek

Gawker is kinda... those people who probably think the PC market is dying cause tablets

bwDraco

Firefox is bottlenecked on the UI process. Yuck.

Bob

Check your extensions.

The COWs used to allow older extensions to work with e10s are synced on the UI thread.

bwDraco

...I guess I need more processes, but that only helps to a limited degree.

The browser is noticeably faster, though.

bwDraco

04:02

extremetech.com/mobile/…

...AT&T has shut down 2G service. If I set my phone to 2G only, I get absolutely no signal at all.

Bob

@bwDraco FYI, groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.power/i-kEMeIC1bI

But also it seems like on Edge's side it was largely the timer on background tabs

Which has been considered (though is already set to 1s, the change Edge made)

And you can change it manually (via config) if you want.

*shrug*

There's probably other things

And it's often just work on background tabs

bwDraco

...and found a bad page. The WCCFtech home page causes a massive memory leak.

Terminating the process in question crashes that one tab.

Bob

@bwDraco about:memory

bwDraco

04:19

I'm the only one in the family with a smartphone, but my parents' aging feature phones are 3G and continue to function normally.

Bob

05:02

floof

@JourneymanGeek I need to revisit Borderlands sometime :P

we still haven't finished that mission

Nick

Hey, I recently installed Ubuntu (finally). How do I access files from my Windows user folders?

Bob

@Nick You mount the partition and ... just browse to them.

IIRC Ubuntu will ignore NTFS permissions by default.

Journeyman Geek

05:44

lol

yup

tbh, the claptrap DLC is much more sanely designed

its 3 'small' areas with a hub

bwDraco

Dammit. Managed to deep-discharge my old Nexus 7. It doesn't seem to want to charge. A power meter indicates it's charging slowly.

I've gone through before; it takes a very long time to charge in this situation before the device powers on.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek dammit, my order for that hub got cancelled

not in stock :\

Journeyman Geek

:(

erf

Bob

and I think the Amazon order is still MIA

Journeyman Geek

I have a quick rather stupid problem

Bob

05:51

> We are expecting more stock to arrive in 4-5 weeks.

gurk.

yea, I'll pay the $15 (50%!) more at the other shop...

> Availability: ETA: 13-03-2017

@_@

sooooo... that was the other shop

are they making one a day or something?!

@JourneymanGeek hm?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob eh. I think I'm just going to turn it into a regular question

Bob

@JourneymanGeek sneak peek? :P

Journeyman Geek

I have a drive - one primary (windows) 4 extended partitions (linux, swap, haiku, spare)

I need to add the haiku partition to grub manually

Bob

...MBR, I guess

Journeyman Geek

but I donno what the hd (0,x) designation for that would be

Bob

05:54

also technically you have one primary, one extended, and 4 logical inside the extended

Journeyman Geek

yup

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I'd guess hd(0,4)

any reason you can't just try it? :P

Journeyman Geek

that's what I'm doing ;p

Bob

13

Q: GRUB: how find partition number (hd0,x)?

i am playing with grub and i change the root using: root (hda,x) how can i know what's x for /dev/sda7 ? fdisk -l Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 1 1958 15727603+ 7 HPFS/NTFS /dev/sda2 1959 7476 44323335...

oh, found it!

gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/Naming-convention.html

>

(hd0,msdos5)

This specifies the first extended partition of the first hard disk drive. Note that the partition numbers for extended partitions are counted from ‘5’, regardless of the actual number of primary partitions on your hard disk.

@JourneymanGeek ^

Journeyman Geek

ah hah!

and dupe

Bob

05:58

@JourneymanGeek If you're using grub-legacy, gnu.org/software/grub/manual/legacy/grub.html#Naming-convention

> Note that the partition numbers for extended partitions are counted from `4', regardless of the actual number of primary partitions on your hard disk.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob this helped

actually not a dupe

shrug

I'm going to ask a question - and you should answer it then ;p

Bob

lol

Journeyman Geek

0

Q: How do I determine the partition number for a extended partition in grub 2

I'm currently trying to boot haiku from a triple boot. For some inconceivable reason I've got one primary partition (windows) and 4 logical partitions (lubuntu 16.04, swap, haiku, spare) in there. I also run a version of haiku with package management so grub needs to be set up manually. I can ...

grub2

@Bob take it away ;)

Bob

@JourneymanGeek you basically already answer it in the question itself!

Journeyman Geek

@Bob not really ;p

the hd0,msdos7 bit I don't know ;p

Bob

06:10

@JourneymanGeek actually tbh I have no idea if the (hd0,7) syntax works on GRUB2 :P

where did you get that from?

Journeyman Geek

haiku docs

and that definately works

Bob

@JourneymanGeek wait what

it works but it doesn't work? O_O

Journeyman Geek

no no

Bob

or it works with haiku?

Journeyman Geek

the hd0,msdos7 works

Bob

06:11

oh lol

Journeyman Geek

quite literally copy my example menu entry, and replace it with msdos7

and add some citation

;p

corrected, and removed the "I know it works"

which it does not ;p

Bob

Answered. Or tried to.

Pandya

@Bob (If don't mind) : chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/34873824#34873824 You maye help!

Bob

Usually I prefer to test first, but I don't have a GRUB-based install anywhere :\

Journeyman Geek

@Bob will add a screenshot

Bob

06:15

@Pandya whaaaaaaaa?

Journeyman Geek

but yeah that certainly works

Bob

how/why am I getting dragged into other chatrooms? o.O

@Pandya Ok, I really really have zero clue what the context is...

what am I supposed to help with? :S

Pandya

@Bob It is about what animal is in your avatar

Journeyman Geek

@Pandya its a generic fox ;p

Bob

@Pandya 'tis a fox

Pandya

06:17

@JourneymanGeek ok.

Journeyman Geek

also I'm confused to why he's asking him about bob ;p

Pandya

@Bob ok. I've mentioned it.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek yea... I have no idea why I'm apparently involved there o.O

@Pandya I used to have a more obviously vulpine avatar :P

Maybe it's time to switch again.

Journeyman Geek

lol

Pandya

@Bob May be confusion; you may be mistakenly involved hinduism.stackexchange.com/users/2482/bob Haha!

Bob

06:21

Some of my past gravatars :P

@Pandya ^

Pandya

@Bob Hmm... nice!

Aibobot

Journeyman Geek

@Bob ^ that's where I guessed the hd0,7 from

Ankit Sharma

wolfs are better then foxes :P

Pandya

Bob the Builder

Bob the Builder is a British children's animated television show created by Keith Chapman. In the original series, Bob appears as a building contractor specialising in masonry in a stop motion animated programme with his colleague Wendy, various neighbours and friends, and their gang of anthropomorphised work-vehicles and equipment. The show is broadcast in many countries, but originates from the United Kingdom where Bob is voiced by English actor Neil Morrissey. The show was later created using CGI animation starting with the spin-off series Ready, Steady, Build!. In each episode, Bob and his...

Bob

06:25

@JourneymanGeek I meant, where did you get the (hd#,#) syntax from :P

@Pandya been there done that. well, not that one specifically.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob haiku docs ;p

Bob

@AnkitSharma blasphemy!

Journeyman Geek

woof

Bob

I need a floofier avatar

Journeyman Geek

(everyone knows the dogs are the ones in charge ;p)

Bob

06:27

ooh this one looks nice

Pandya

How about: /cc @AnkitSharma

Wilf, United Kingdom

16.3k 4 43 80

14.04 command-line gnome 12.04 unity apt 13.10

Bob

hm... too long for gravatar

Journeyman Geek

Pandya

@Bob AnkitSharma has knowledge on Movies & TV. So, he may suggest good avatars!

Journeyman Geek

@AnkitSharma I'm just confused to why @Bob was mentioned on hinduism ;p

Bob

06:34

bwDraco

One last thing...

I was thinking about battery nail penetration tests and this idea came up: what would happen if you drove a nail through a LiPo battery with a nailgun? It would be a lot easier to drive a nail through the battery fully with a nailgun than to hammer one in by hand.

Bob

New gravatar: acquired! :D

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco Just cause you could, doesn't mean you should

bwDraco

The result, as you would expect, is nothing short of spectacular:

Shooting 8000mah Lipo Battery with Nail Gun

►

Ankit Sharma

@JourneymanGeek That's a top secret

Bob

06:37

So it turns out that if you have something that bursts into flames when punctured, and you shoot it with a device designed to puncture much thicker and sturdier objects, it tends to go up in flames.

3

Hmmmm.

Journeyman Geek

science

Ankit Sharma

@Pandya bleh wilf!=wolf

Bob

(sorry, I'm just in the mood for sarcasm right now :P)

Journeyman Geek

@AnkitSharma just not in english.

bwDraco

Man fires a Paslode Impulse into a 8000 LiPo battery. The result shouldn't surprise anybody.

@Bob lol

Ankit Sharma

06:38

@JourneymanGeek it have many famous dirt meanings too

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I guess it's time to call auspost about that amazon delivery :\

Journeyman Geek

:(

bwDraco

...well, not quite an Impulse nailer, but that's besides the point.

Good night.

Bob

O_O

@JourneymanGeek auspost says ... they have it, but it's been sitting there and not sent to the local delivery centre

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Bob

06:51

and apparently any investigation needs to start from Amazon's end

I can't actually get them to do anything about it

Journeyman Geek

@Bob customs?

so damn weird

Bob

@JourneymanGeek possible, but unlikely... I would've expected someone to tell me

also it's been three weeks since it left the Amazon facility in the US

that's ... well, it should be more than enough time for customs

maybe I should call Amazon

their chat support is... well.

you know how chat support usually goes.

Journeyman Geek

yup

lol

I think we have someone else hunting bounties

Transcript for